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Post by Malvern Tom (WAHLS) on Apr 7, 2016 8:16:20 GMT 1
The reason for the disaster will be aportioned within the two year enquiry. To blame football hooliganism of prior years as some people do (hi Ted ) lays an equal amount of blame to the Liverpool fans as any other supporter. Be it a Town fan chasing a Sheffield Utd fan out of the Cowshed, or a Liverpool fan chasing a Juventus fan across the terrace in Belgium. You can't have it both ways. From the Ibrox disaster, through the terrible events of Valley Parade, Hillsborough included, people cause these events, be it fans, police or officials. It's inevitably a combination of the three. It's just as crass to take Ted's anti establishment angle as it is to take an anti Liverpool fans! It was a terrible accident ( because it wasn't an ' on purpose '). The one saving grace, if that is possible in the tragedy of Hillsborough, is that the disaster prompted extreme changes that probably saved many more such instances. No one in their right mind dosnt want ' justice', but what exactly would serve as that justice when the jury return?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 8:22:41 GMT 1
Let's hope they get justice yeah ? That's all any football fan should crave yeah ? Don't suppose the Heysel victims will ever get proper justice either will they ? Or should we do what Victimpool do best and try and forget that ever happened ? Because they weren't responsible for that either. Was the NF/Chelsea fans/Belgian Police/Juventus fans* *Delete as applicable depending on your shell-suit colour  Shocking post .. Are you saying that the multitude of fuck ups cover ups lies and slander were in some way " karma" for the terrible loss of life at Heysel ? Heysel is Heysel Hillsborough is Hillsborough.. Are you saying that if you were the parent of a teenager crushed to death at Hillsborough your focus wouldnt be on the events that led to your child's death ? But rather your focus would be a joint focus on events leading to your child's death combined with a focus on something which happened 4 years earlier in Belgium which didn't involve you or your child in any way shape or form ? ... That's beyond nuts... I could point you in directions where Liverpudlians are rightly stating that Liverpool and Liverpudlians have to bear some culpability for that night ( though I can't be arsed cos you've made your mind up ) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 8:23:48 GMT 1
Heysel always seems to me o have just been sadly brushed under the carpet.I do now hope that once this verdict has been reached then the victims at Hillsborough can be allowed to lay in peace.Their families probably never will no matter what the verdict.I probably would never know peace again if I had lost a loved one that day.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 8:33:19 GMT 1
The reason for the disaster will be aportioned within the two year enquiry. To blame football hooliganism of prior years as some people do (hi Ted ) lays an equal amount of blame to the Liverpool fans as any other supporter. Be it a Town fan chasing a Sheffield Utd fan out of the Cowshed, or a Liverpool fan chasing a Juventus fan across the terrace in Belgium. You can't have it both ways. From the Ibrox disaster, through the terrible events of Valley Parade, Hillsborough included, people cause these events, be it fans, police or officials. It's inevitably a combination of the three. It's just as crass to take Ted's anti establishment angle as it is to take an anti Liverpool fans! It was a terrible accident ( because it wasn't an ' on purpose '). The one saving grace, if that is possible in the tragedy of Hillsborough, is that the disaster prompted extreme changes that probably saved many more such instances. No one in their right mind dosnt want ' justice', but what exactly would serve as that justice when the jury return? Tom whats "anti establishment"about saying that people didn't do their jobs and then lied and covered up about it ? That's not anti establishment that's the truth .. That's what happened .. I'm assuming you haven't read a page about Hillsborough ( too busy trolling me maybe ?) .. Re football hooliganism .. It had nothing to do with that day ... People died because the police had never decided over years and years it might not be a good idea to let disproportionate amount of people into the centre pen... The link to hooliganism of course is made because the shit you and your mates used to serve up led to a climate where all football fans were seen by the authorities as animals who needed caging for their own safety ... Totally missing the obvious point that this strategy could be contributory to needless death |
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Post by townrwe on Apr 7, 2016 8:43:09 GMT 1
Best comments on here. It was an accumulation of police error, and 20 years of British hooliganism coming to a massive peak. Tradegy waiting to happen if you ask me. British authorities were also warned that Hillsborough wasn't fit for such a massive game, after the semi final there a couple of years before, but they went ahead Anyway. Again, tragic circumstances but impossible to put the blame on one aspect. Errr .. what about the lies and cover ups in the aftermath Phil ? Do you not think any "blame" can be laid at the door of those who lied ? Cover ups where to save their own arse..... nothing to do with prevention of the tragedy. This country has a culture of blame, someone must get the blame.... not always, the circumstances and decisions of thousands of people that day all contributed to the tragedy. There doesn't need to be blame attached to any one individual or authority, They were acting in a professiobal capacity and making decisons based on the facts they had at the time. if you want to blame it would have to be every single person who had even the smallest contribution to the tragedy. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 8:45:14 GMT 1
Errr .. what about the lies and cover ups in the aftermath Phil ? Do you not think any "blame" can be laid at the door of those who lied ? Cover ups where to save their own arse..... nothing to do with prevention of the tragedy. This country has a culture of blame, someone must get the blame.... not always, the circumstances and decisions of thousands of people that day all contributed to the tragedy. There doesn't need to be blame attached to any one individual or authority, They were acting in a professiobal capacity and making decisons based on the facts they had at the time. if you want to blame it would have to be every single person who had even the smallest contribution to the tragedy. Lol I can see you too made your mind up many moons ago and haven't been following the case... |
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Post by morleyterrier on Apr 7, 2016 9:05:38 GMT 1
Out of curiosity Ted, do you lay any responsibility in what happened (even 1%) at the hands of any of the followers of Liverpool that day?. (Or do you solely blame the 'establishment')?. Out of curiosity Morley, I'd be interested to know what Liverpool fans did that day which leads you to think they should be found in any way culpable for the deaths of 96 people.. I'd agree with sapphire further up the page that ALL football fans who enjoyed "a bit of a rumble " in the 70s and 80s need to have a look at themselves (hi malverntom) because the pathetic futility of football violence led to a climate where football supporters were penned in like chicken. But on that day the reality was that if the Liverpool fans had been diverted from going down the central tunnel and funnelled out to the sides then no one would have died.. and that Factor was nothing to do with "drunken scousers" .. it happened every single year.. crushes in the central pen ..people having picnics in the wing pens..it was a total shambles .. and to compound the shambles those responsible for the shambles then waged a vicious hateful smear campaign against good innocent people .. from Thatcher down .. I'd encourage you to read about the enquiry and what led to it .. and what these amazing people from the justice campaign have had to endure ..and imagine that it had happened to town and town fans .. cos as the guy said we took big numbers for the 0-0 draw in 83-84.. it could easily have been me and you Morley, kids going to the football .. go to the recent David Conn article Morley in the Guardian and look at all their faces.. mostly under 25s .. a shocking, disgraceful and avoidable waste of lives Ted, you really are a defensive, touchy so and so. I ask a fair question and get this unwarranted rant that makes so many assumptions on the part of me its untrue. Get a grip of yourself Man FFS. My question was not in any way shape or form directed at those that lost their lives, my question was if you lay any responsibility at the hands of any of the 'followers of Liverpool'?. I take it your answer is 'no'. You know the really sad thing that day Ted?, those that died were at the front having got to the game on time, had tickets and were ENTIRELY BLAMELESS, get that Ted ENTIRELY BLAMELESS for all the events and decisions that led to their deaths. The decision with the benefit of hindsight re the tunnels, lost lives. The opening of the gates, lost lives, the cover-up, absolutely scandalous, disgraceful and in my opinion there didn't need to be a web of lies and a cover-up. Individuals at the time needed to be accountable for decisions and actions taken in extremely difficult circumstances. And as with any position of responsibility / authority when you get these wrong you have to be accountable and face consequences. If fans do not turn up late and drunk without tickets and try to storm the stadium, does this incident happen?. We will never know. Do we know that lives may have been lost outside the ground with the crush against the turnstile blocks? (and then it would have been why didn't they open the gates?). We will never know. I agree that the authorities should have planned better for a high-profile game where there was the possibility for large volumes of fans arriving without tickets. It is in summary a whole sorry incident littered with poor planning, poor decision making, lies, deceit, cover-ups. etc However, I am also of the view that some followers of Liverpool have to shoulder some of the responsibility for creating a situation that led to events that day. |
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Post by Malvern Tom (WAHLS) on Apr 7, 2016 9:07:39 GMT 1
The reason for the disaster will be aportioned within the two year enquiry. To blame football hooliganism of prior years as some people do (hi Ted ) lays an equal amount of blame to the Liverpool fans as any other supporter. Be it a Town fan chasing a Sheffield Utd fan out of the Cowshed, or a Liverpool fan chasing a Juventus fan across the terrace in Belgium. You can't have it both ways. From the Ibrox disaster, through the terrible events of Valley Parade, Hillsborough included, people cause these events, be it fans, police or officials. It's inevitably a combination of the three. It's just as crass to take Ted's anti establishment angle as it is to take an anti Liverpool fans! It was a terrible accident ( because it wasn't an ' on purpose '). The one saving grace, if that is possible in the tragedy of Hillsborough, is that the disaster prompted extreme changes that probably saved many more such instances. No one in their right mind dosnt want ' justice', but what exactly would serve as that justice when the jury return? Tom whats "anti establishment"about saying that people didn't do their jobs and then lied and covered up about it ? That's not anti establishment that's the truth .. That's what happened .. I'm assuming you haven't read a page about Hillsborough ( too busy trolling me maybe ?) .. Re football hooliganism .. It had nothing to do with that day ... People died because the police had never decided over years and years it might not be a good idea to let disproportionate amount of people into the centre pen... The link to hooliganism of course is made because the shit you and your mates used to serve up led to a climate where all football fans were seen by the authorities as animals who needed caging for their own safety ... Totally missing the obvious point that this strategy could be contributory to needless death That's what you do best though Ted isn't it, assume? When the enquiry is ( finally) complete, the debate will move forward and will, perhaps, have a few facts to ponder and discuss. Assumptions can be very misleading. To link me in such a tenuous way to the deaths of scores of football fans is very silly. Throw me in one of your stalags. Edit; by the way Ted, I read each and every thread on here, but choose not to post in them all, unlike some. I replied to this one because YOU included me in it in one of your posts. Perhaps you could buy a troll mirror. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 9:50:25 GMT 1
Ted is right though isn't he with regard to the hooligan bit. Every person that thought in the 70s and 80s that it was great to have a do with x y or z played a part in the shape of football at that time. Forest fans on that day actually booed for a short while, thinking it was idiots trying to start something, the atmosphere obviously changed when they realised from the other end that it was way more serious and a good number tried to help. Without having a ruck with Chelsea, or kicking the shit out of Sheff Utd, or whatever the fuck folk used to do in the name of football support there would have been no fences, no assumption that football fans are all thugs. Big men fighting because they follow a different football team? Fucking ace that isn't it.
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realmadkid
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Post by realmadkid on Apr 7, 2016 10:10:30 GMT 1
Some of the comments on here are an utter disgrace and make me ashamed to be a fellow Town fan of those individuals. Whether or not these people 'like' Liverpool Football Club or Scousers in general is irrelevant. Innocent people died needlessly that day and deserve some respect and their families deserve some closure after 27 years of torment.
One of my colleagues was in the Leppings Lane end that sad day and no way could he be described as a hooligan. He was lucky to escape with his life (he was near the front, centre pen) and some of the things that he told me that the police got up to - even after the point where they knew people were dying - absolutely disgusts me. I cannot even bring myself to type it on here to be honest.
Justice for the 96.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 10:15:10 GMT 1
Out of curiosity Morley, I'd be interested to know what Liverpool fans did that day which leads you to think they should be found in any way culpable for the deaths of 96 people.. I'd agree with sapphire further up the page that ALL football fans who enjoyed "a bit of a rumble " in the 70s and 80s need to have a look at themselves (hi malverntom) because the pathetic futility of football violence led to a climate where football supporters were penned in like chicken. But on that day the reality was that if the Liverpool fans had been diverted from going down the central tunnel and funnelled out to the sides then no one would have died.. and that Factor was nothing to do with "drunken scousers" .. it happened every single year.. crushes in the central pen ..people having picnics in the wing pens..it was a total shambles .. and to compound the shambles those responsible for the shambles then waged a vicious hateful smear campaign against good innocent people .. from Thatcher down .. I'd encourage you to read about the enquiry and what led to it .. and what these amazing people from the justice campaign have had to endure ..and imagine that it had happened to town and town fans .. cos as the guy said we took big numbers for the 0-0 draw in 83-84.. it could easily have been me and you Morley, kids going to the football .. go to the recent David Conn article Morley in the Guardian and look at all their faces.. mostly under 25s .. a shocking, disgraceful and avoidable waste of lives Ted, you really are a defensive, touchy so and so. I ask a fair question and get this unwarranted rant that makes so many assumptions on the part of me its untrue. Get a grip of yourself Man FFS. My question was not in any way shape or form directed at those that lost their lives, my question was if you lay any responsibility at the hands of any of the 'followers of Liverpool'?. I take it your answer is 'no'. You know the really sad thing that day Ted?, those that died were at the front having got to the game on time, had tickets and were ENTIRELY BLAMELESS, get that Ted ENTIRELY BLAMELESS for all the events and decisions that led to their deaths. The decision with the benefit of hindsight re the tunnels, lost lives. The opening of the gates, lost lives, the cover-up, absolutely scandalous, disgraceful and in my opinion there didn't need to be a web of lies and a cover-up. Individuals at the time needed to be accountable for decisions and actions taken in extremely difficult circumstances. And as with any position of responsibility / authority when you get these wrong you have to be accountable and face consequences. If fans do not turn up late and drunk without tickets and try to storm the stadium, does this incident happen?. We will never know. Do we know that lives may have been lost outside the ground with the crush against the turnstile blocks? (and then it would have been why didn't they open the gates?). We will never know. I agree that the authorities should have planned better for a high-profile game where there was the possibility for large volumes of fans arriving without tickets. It is in summary a whole sorry incident littered with poor planning, poor decision making, lies, deceit, cover-ups. etc However, I am also of the view that some followers of Liverpool have to shoulder some of the responsibility for creating a situation that led to events that day. Lateness and the Hillsborough disaster myth. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 10:18:29 GMT 1
Out of curiosity Ted, do you lay any responsibility in what happened (even 1%) at the hands of any of the followers of Liverpool that day?. (Or do you solely blame the 'establishment')?. Out of curiosity Morley, I'd be interested to know what Liverpool fans did that day which leads you to think they should be found in any way culpable for the deaths of 96 people.. I'd agree with sapphire further up the page that ALL football fans who enjoyed "a bit of a rumble " in the 70s and 80s need to have a look at themselves (hi malverntom) because the pathetic futility of football violence led to a climate where football supporters were penned in like chicken. But on that day the reality was that if the Liverpool fans had been diverted from going down the central tunnel and funnelled out to the sides then no one would have died.. and that Factor was nothing to do with "drunken scousers" .. it happened every single year.. crushes in the central pen ..people having picnics in the wing pens..it was a total shambles .. and to compound the shambles those responsible for the shambles then waged a vicious hateful smear campaign against good innocent people .. from Thatcher down .. I'd encourage you to read about the enquiry and what led to it .. and what these amazing people from the justice campaign have had to endure ..and imagine that it had happened to town and town fans .. cos as the guy said we took big numbers for the 0-0 draw in 83-84.. it could easily have been me and you Morley, kids going to the football .. go to the recent David Conn article Morley in the Guardian and look at all their faces.. mostly under 25s .. a shocking, disgraceful and avoidable waste of lives An excellent post Ted and one that will resonate with every Town fan at that match. I have a good friend who was at the tragedy and his account is heartbreaking and harrowing. No place for jokes here. Such a sad, senseless and ultimately avoidable tragedy. What makes my blood boil is the events that you outline afterwards. Every bastard involved in the cover-ups should be named, shamed and imprisoned. |
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Post by detox on Apr 7, 2016 10:21:18 GMT 1
Without getting into the debate of what the culture was at the time, and why that culture of hooliganism existed..or whether it was purely a football thing and not a society in general thing...because in reality there was a subculture, not just at football games, but in society.. Just looking at the Hillsborough situation.
The year before there was almost the same crisis at this stadium.
There were many reservations about the use of this stadium again for the semi final Liverpool v Forest.
On the day wrong decisions were made by those in charge of security, uninformed decisions by persons unqualified to be in such a position.
After the tragic events of that day those same people.the ones in charge, realised they had made a major cock up ..because they thenlied about events that took place. and blamed others.
This fitted the narrative of the time, football hooliganism was a stain on our society and this was an easy target to finally blame the fans for everything that happened on that day...and it stuck, it resonated with almost everyone...ah, Liverpool fans again...serves them right..etc etc and that was it, and who could blame them given the wearisome violence seen on our TV screens at football matches both here and across Europe.
Enough was enough.
But.....amidst all that were innocent boys and girls, mums and dads,brothers and sisters who had never ever been involved in any sort of football hooliganism. They were not to blame for their own deaths and injuries were they ? No, most certainly not. Were there scenes of violence and fighting at that time they died, no there was not.
So who is to blame ..if anyone ?
What we know.. there was an already recognised risk at this Stadium from the previous year.
The commander at the game had no experience.
The decision to open the gates and allow so many fans to enter an already packed terrace...a decision made maybe because of the 'reputation' of Liverpool fans outside the ground demanding to get in before the kick off... the fear of more violence..so, just let them all in..open the gates.
and that, is the key point isn't it..at that moment, that decision..made in panic,made based on the reputation of the fans, made based on fear of what might happen outside the ground..but, and this is key...made without "proper consideration of the consequences."
So for me, there is guilt, there is blame... and in the aftermath ..looking down on that terrace and seeing bodies lifted on to the pitch that person must have though, Oh Christ... I've done that...and then proceeded to cover it up and blame someone else. and got away with it becasue it fitted comfortably into the narrative of the time, bloody football hooligans, again.
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 7, 2016 10:28:21 GMT 1
I haven't "made my mind up", I don't care one way or t'other who gets blamed. I haven't said anyone deserved to die and I don't give a fuck what you think of my humour Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards Your humour was directed at the loved ones of those who died. They don't deserve your pathetic insults. Wherever the blame lies the loved ones do not deserve ANY abuse and get nothing but admiration from right-minded people. They have been through hell. I hope they get the justice they deserve. I don't really give a fuck what you think of me, but your outrageous post could not be left unchallenged. It was a disgrace and so are you. It was directed at Liverpool in general, it was not aimed at the bereaved families. But carry on imagining and interpreting my thoughts in your own way. Seeing as you don't like my posts on the Giants either can I suggest you use the block facility in future. Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards |
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Post by dalton knee-jerk on Apr 7, 2016 10:38:25 GMT 1
Don't suppose the Heysel victims will ever get proper justice either will they ? Or should we do what Victimpool do best and try and forget that ever happened ? Because they weren't responsible for that either. Was the NF/Chelsea fans/Belgian Police/Juventus fans* *Delete as applicable depending on your shell-suit colour Shocking post .. Are you saying that the multitude of fuck ups cover ups lies and slander were in some way " karma" for the terrible loss of life at Heysel ? Heysel is Heysel Hillsborough is Hillsborough.. Are you saying that if you were the parent of a teenager crushed to death at Hillsborough your focus wouldnt be on the events that led to your child's death ? But rather your focus would be a joint focus on events leading to your child's death combined with a focus on something which happened 4 years earlier in Belgium which didn't involve you or your child in any way shape or form ? ... That's beyond nuts... I could point you in directions where Liverpudlians are rightly stating that Liverpool and Liverpudlians have to bear some culpability for that night ( though I can't be arsed cos you've made your mind up ) Not saying that at all, Hillsborough was horrific and I hope whoever/whatever was responsible is brought to justice. My point is that I cannot believe that Liverpool fans were entirely blameless for the horrible events that day. My post was more regarding the selective memory loss they suffer involving another tragedy involving their 'supporters' I, like others in this thread believe they are more than happy to sweep the events in Belgium under the carpet. |
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Post by artysid on Apr 7, 2016 11:01:22 GMT 1
The decision to open the gates to prevent potential injuries outside the ground is understandable IMO, it is the failure to channel the fans into the empty side pens once inside where the negligence / recklessness lies.
However any "punishment" should be directed to those who orchestrated the cover up and lies afterwards, not on those who made honest but bad decisions on the day IMO
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 7, 2016 11:17:28 GMT 1
Remember going to Hillsborough in 1983 along with 8000 Town fans. Was with my father in one of the side pens but the centre pen was very overcrowded. Clearly remember him saying with reference to the crowded pens and the little narrow tunnels under the Leppings Lane end " there'll be fans who die here in a crush one day, believe me" I said the same thing when I was in the leppings a couple of years later... The deaths were a culmination of appalling mismanagement on all levels ..police.. FA . SWFC .. Government I went in about 84, we couldn't get in the pens, seem to remember watching the game from the slope up from the turnstiles, stood in a stream of police horse piss Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards |
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 7, 2016 11:22:48 GMT 1
Every football fan whose behaviour led, inevitably, to the culture and environments which, directly or indirectly, led to the Hillsborough and Bradford disasters, is partially to blame for what happened on those dreadful days. I fully acknowledge my small part in that and I fully apologise for my awful behaviour during those times. RIP indeed. As Nick said in the OP about remembering where you were when it happened. I must've been for a slash and was making my way back down the terrace when I overheard someone with a radio saying the semi final had been abandoned due to trouble in the crowd, everyone who heard him just seemed to tut, shrug their shoulders and mumble something about "bloody hooligans" and go back to watching the game. The idea of a big game getting abandoned just wasn't a shock at the time and being caged in like animals was just the norm Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards |
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 7, 2016 11:35:09 GMT 1
Out of curiosity Morley, I'd be interested to know what Liverpool fans did that day which leads you to think they should be found in any way culpable for the deaths of 96 people.. I'd agree with sapphire further up the page that ALL football fans who enjoyed "a bit of a rumble " in the 70s and 80s need to have a look at themselves (hi malverntom) because the pathetic futility of football violence led to a climate where football supporters were penned in like chicken. But on that day the reality was that if the Liverpool fans had been diverted from going down the central tunnel and funnelled out to the sides then no one would have died.. and that Factor was nothing to do with "drunken scousers" .. it happened every single year.. crushes in the central pen ..people having picnics in the wing pens..it was a total shambles .. and to compound the shambles those responsible for the shambles then waged a vicious hateful smear campaign against good innocent people .. from Thatcher down .. I'd encourage you to read about the enquiry and what led to it .. and what these amazing people from the justice campaign have had to endure ..and imagine that it had happened to town and town fans .. cos as the guy said we took big numbers for the 0-0 draw in 83-84.. it could easily have been me and you Morley, kids going to the football .. go to the recent David Conn article Morley in the Guardian and look at all their faces.. mostly under 25s .. a shocking, disgraceful and avoidable waste of lives Ted, you really are a defensive, touchy so and so. I ask a fair question and get this unwarranted rant that makes so many assumptions on the part of me its untrue. Get a grip of yourself Man FFS. My question was not in any way shape or form directed at those that lost their lives, my question was if you lay any responsibility at the hands of any of the 'followers of Liverpool'?. I take it your answer is 'no'. You know the really sad thing that day Ted?, those that died were at the front having got to the game on time, had tickets and were ENTIRELY BLAMELESS, get that Ted ENTIRELY BLAMELESS for all the events and decisions that led to their deaths. The decision with the benefit of hindsight re the tunnels, lost lives. The opening of the gates, lost lives, the cover-up, absolutely scandalous, disgraceful and in my opinion there didn't need to be a web of lies and a cover-up. Individuals at the time needed to be accountable for decisions and actions taken in extremely difficult circumstances. And as with any position of responsibility / authority when you get these wrong you have to be accountable and face consequences. If fans do not turn up late and drunk without tickets and try to storm the stadium, does this incident happen?. We will never know. Do we know that lives may have been lost outside the ground with the crush against the turnstile blocks? (and then it would have been why didn't they open the gates?). We will never know. I agree that the authorities should have planned better for a high-profile game where there was the possibility for large volumes of fans arriving without tickets. It is in summary a whole sorry incident littered with poor planning, poor decision making, lies, deceit, cover-ups. etc However, I am also of the view that some followers of Liverpool have to shoulder some of the responsibility for creating a situation that led to events that day.  ?? that's been my feelings all along, I've never had a go at the dead or their families, they were responsible and got to the ground in plenty of time and bagged themselves prime positions but they lost their lives due to a combination of events beyond their control. If I've ever blamed any fans at the game it's the ones who decided to have the extra pint or 2 then got there as the game was starting, that combined with some decisions of the SYP colluded to cause the disaster Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards |
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Post by ACW on Apr 7, 2016 11:37:46 GMT 1
Your humour was directed at the loved ones of those who died. They don't deserve your pathetic insults. Wherever the blame lies the loved ones do not deserve ANY abuse and get nothing but admiration from right-minded people. They have been through hell. I hope they get the justice they deserve. I don't really give a fuck what you think of me, but your outrageous post could not be left unchallenged. It was a disgrace and so are you. It was directed at Liverpool in general, it was not aimed at the bereaved families. But carry on imagining and interpreting my thoughts in your own way. Seeing as you don't like my posts on the Giants either can I suggest you use the block facility in future. Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards Nah, think I'll just use my own in-built "ignore ignorant prejudiced comments" feature which will work just as well. |
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 7, 2016 11:38:31 GMT 1
"Whacha mean it were our fault wac, it can't be ! Nottins ever our fault. It were de bizzies. Can't stop mate, gorra go sign on like" Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards Not remotely funny, if that was really the intention behind this post. You've made no attempt to hide your dislike of Liverpool on here but dancing on the graves of those human beings who died, many of whom were just kids, does you no favours whatsoever. Did a scouser steal your girlfriend or something? That's the only thing I can think that would inspire such blind hatred. As I've said, my comment was a direct reply to the one I'd quoted which I took to be a general "what will they say" and not a literal "what will the families say" . I may have my moments but I'm not sick enough to joke about dead kids, whatever some on here seem to think Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards |
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Post by Stavros on Apr 7, 2016 12:29:20 GMT 1
The enquiry should be all encompassing and, if apportioning blame, should consider all possibilities. That includes the possibility that some LFC fans were responsible. NOT THE VICTIMS THEMSELVES. God rest their soul they of course are entirely blameless, but it has to be a consideration that other fans played a part. I don't get why saying that is so vile. To hold this enquiry and not be prepared to consider that is prejudiced. If after two years they find that they weren't then so be it. Without preempting the whole thing it's obvious that people in authority at best made mistakes, and at worst made mistakes followed by establishment cover ups and lies. For this they will surely be punished and rightly so. (And let's make sure we identify those above the police in the pecking order if appropriate).
Let's see what they say, and my only hope is that the verdict is accurate and the truth exposed, and that those who lost their blameless loved ones somehow feel better afterwards.
I can't help feeling however that the whole exercise and the massive weight of support behind it has been as much about preserving the reputation of LFC and its fans than any other, more moral reasons. I doubt, having read some other comments, I'm alone in feeling that way. I think there was a culture of turning up for games hoping to 'force entry'. I have images in my mind of fans being pulled through windows at the old Wembley, and in fact they even tried the same trick at a European Cup Final many years later, storming the turnstiles. They might find that behaviour wasn't the issue, but it shouldn't be off limits for the jury to consider.
If the above thoughts make me a bad person so be it.
Most importantly, let's hope they get the real truth and God bless those who died.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Apr 7, 2016 12:36:19 GMT 1
I don't believe every tragedy needs to have someone to blame. It was a combination of circumstances for which no one person or body should be held accountable. Lessons have been learned, time to move on and let them rest in peace. Absolutely, should have been put to bed years ago, there is no justice to be had from this farce. |
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Post by Lard Buttie on Apr 7, 2016 12:41:19 GMT 1
The police acted with negligence that day, there is no other verdict available here if you ask me. Seems to me SYP are incompetent, its not the first time they have faced controversy. It's become apparent over the last few months that South Yorkshire Police were involved in other 'incidents' requiring further questions around the time of this disaster - Battle Of Orgreave being one of them. Add to that the sexual abuse stuff is South Yorks as well. Who was the commissioner at the time? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 12:48:20 GMT 1
The decision to open the gates to prevent potential injuries outside the ground is understandable IMO, it is the failure to channel the fans into the empty side pens once inside where the negligence / recklessness lies. However any "punishment" should be directed to those who orchestrated the cover up and lies afterwards, not on those who made honest but bad decisions on the day IMO My sentiments too. |
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Post by lochnessterrier on Apr 7, 2016 13:00:20 GMT 1
It will be interesting to see the reaction if they don't get the verdict they all crave. "Whacha mean it were our fault wac, it can't be ! Nottins ever our fault. It were de bizzies. Can't stop mate, gorra go sign on like" Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards Arguably the most disgusting post I have ever read on this board. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 13:15:38 GMT 1
I don't believe every tragedy needs to have someone to blame. It was a combination of circumstances for which no one person or body should be held accountable. Lessons have been learned, time to move on and let them rest in peace. Absolutely, should have been put to bed years ago, there is no justice to be had from this farce. I can assure you mate that this wouldn't be your view if a member of your family had died that day.. Or am I wrong ? It's very easy for us to say " it happened 25 years ago so let's leave it " Same was said about Jimmy savile, stuart hall etc.... To the families THIS HAPPENED YESTERDAY |
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Post by townrwe on Apr 7, 2016 14:39:20 GMT 1
Cover ups where to save their own arse..... nothing to do with prevention of the tragedy. This country has a culture of blame, someone must get the blame.... not always, the circumstances and decisions of thousands of people that day all contributed to the tragedy. There doesn't need to be blame attached to any one individual or authority, They were acting in a professiobal capacity and making decisons based on the facts they had at the time. if you want to blame it would have to be every single person who had even the smallest contributixon to the tragedy. Lol I can see you too made your mind up many moons ago and haven't been following the case... I don't need to follow the case. It was a horrible tragedy. I don't think anymore lives need ruining because of it. It's cost millions and millions of tax payers money to go through several hearings and for what exactly? To find out if it was the police or the fans. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 14:48:48 GMT 1
Lol I can see you too made your mind up many moons ago and haven't been following the case... I don't need to follow the case. It was a horrible tragedy. I don't think anymore lives need ruining because of it. It's cost millions and millions of tax payers money to go through several hearings and for what exactly? To find out if it was the police or the fans. No .. To find out why one hundred people died who needn't have .. Because the truth never came out at the time ... Do you think you would have felt the same had your brother sister son or daughter perished ? |
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Post by Lard Buttie on Apr 7, 2016 15:15:53 GMT 1
Lol I can see you too made your mind up many moons ago and haven't been following the case... . It was a horrible tragedy. I don't think anymore lives need ruining because of it. It's cost millions and millions of tax payers money to go through several hearings and for what exactly? To find out if it was the police or the fans. Then you probably need to PC's being told to alter their statements by senior officers - a blatant attempt to cover up the police's clusterfuck. |
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