|
Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 7, 2016 15:41:49 GMT 1
The police acted with negligence that day, there is no other verdict available here if you ask me. Seems to me SYP are incompetent, its not the first time they have faced controversy. the police acted to an ongoing and changing large public order situation in the way that they did at that particular time and period in policing football matches. since that time and across most things in this country , 'hindsight' has become a a legitimate weapon to use after the fact and the way we do things now has been allowed to be presented 'against' people and organisations who were using 'up to date methods' at that time.. one 'expert witness' at this enquiry actually admitted that he and 4 others took in 'real time' , over 4 hours to work out their 'best scenario' of dealing with the unfolding public order problems on that fateful day.. remember he and them 'knew' roughly what was going to happen beforehand and they had access to all the cctv, radio messages etc etc etc..they also changed vital decisions after they also proved to be fateful in the mock up scenario and finally got a better 'outcome'.. They were also able to 'discount' many of the 'messages' they recieved which had orginally added to the confusion in a very confusing ongoing situation, which made their 'job' much easier. the inquest should solely have looked at the cover up afterwards, the public order situation was waiting to happen given previous problems at these games and the outcome on this day changed policing at football and the police attitude to 'running' football matches for ever.. mistakes were made at every public order situation and probably still are, its the nature of the 'beast'. Its very much an ongoing learning thing but like it or not they are very 'efficient' at it now. looking at the cover up only would have been difficult as its clear the cover up was from on high, not a few senior police officers and definitely not those in charge on the day who have since been 'left out to dry anyway', but they should have really tried to get as far up as they could. They have not done so and a few middle ranked officers will probably carry the whole can even though it was clear then and even clearer now that they did not have the authority or the power to 'alter' as much as appears to have been done.. The inquest and various hearings have imo been commisioned to get some blame apportioned to the 'right' people and to try and 'make it go away' before the spineless and wholly deceitful cover up and the major instigators and players in that black mark on our history really gets investigated properly..
|
|
|
Post by townrwe on Apr 7, 2016 15:48:16 GMT 1
I don't need to follow the case. It was a horrible tragedy. I don't think anymore lives need ruining because of it. It's cost millions and millions of tax payers money to go through several hearings and for what exactly? To find out if it was the police or the fans. Then you probably need to PC's being told to alter their statements by senior officers - a blatant attempt to cover up the police's clusterfuck. That's got nothing to do with what happened on the day. Covering their backsides didn't result in 96 people losing their lives. The blame is trying to be apportioned to the police, the fans, the stadium, the h&s company that did the check and the emergency services.... 0bviously it was a combination of events, that lets not forget were going on at grounds around the company and across the world. It was a tragedy that changed the face of English football. Why try and pin it on individuals? Plus the amount of money it must have cost the country now is obscene and would have been much better spent protecting live.... maybe reducing the number of people that die on our roads each day (currently 5)
|
|
|
Post by Lard Buttie on Apr 7, 2016 16:07:57 GMT 1
Then you probably need to PC's being told to alter their statements by senior officers - a blatant attempt to cover up the police's clusterfuck. That's got nothing to do with what happened on the day. Covering their backsides didn't result in 96 people losing their lives. The blame is trying to be apportioned to the police, the fans, the stadium, the h&s company that did the check and the emergency services.... 0bviously it was a combination of events, that lets not forget were going on at grounds around the company and across the world. It was a tragedy that changed the face of English football. Why try and pin it on individuals? Plus the amount of money it must have cost the country now is obscene and would have been much better spent protecting live.... maybe reducing the number of people that die on our roads each day (currently 5) No it was their failure to manage the crowd correctly & the immediate aftermath that caused the deaths of fellow football fans and their attempt to cover this up after the fact.
|
|
|
Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Apr 7, 2016 16:20:57 GMT 1
Absolutely, should have been put to bed years ago, there is no justice to be had from this farce. I can assure you mate that this wouldn't be your view if a member of your family had died that day.. Or am I wrong ? It's very easy for us to say " it happened 25 years ago so let's leave it " Same was said about Jimmy savile, stuart hall etc.... To the families THIS HAPPENED YESTERDAY Perhaps I wouldn't but that's what gives me the benefit of an objective view. What do they possibly hope to gain? Every party involved with the incident that day has shouldered blame or accepted responsibility in some form or another on repeated occasions, and I'm sure most of the Police officers attending that day have paid for their mistakes with decades of guilt. As I have said before there is no justice or solace to be had for those seeking it, if they haven't come to terms and moved on from what happened that day then they never Will, and the only recompense they can hope to receive now is financial, which hopefully they won't. Their endless and senseless pursuit of something that simply does not exist serves only to turn the majority of the population against them, and the 'charity single' that was released a few years ago was disgustingly wrong on so many levels. I don't like comparing but Hillsborough was caused by negligence, inexperience and to some degree malpractice, the exact same root causes as the fire at Bradford, where was their 30 year court battle? Where are their annual nationwide memorials? I know it was done last year but for the first time in how long?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 16:21:06 GMT 1
Nothing to do with thousands of fans turning up without tickets and trying to force the outer gates, causing a crush incident outside the ground and convincing the Police to make the terrible decision, that it was a good idea to open the floodgates then?
Nothing at all to do with the fans behaviour then? or is it just that the family of the 96 and the rest of Liverpool fans just want all blame pushing onto the police to remove any doubt about their own fans being a good part of the tragedy?
There was no single entity to blame and the fans were a serious contributing factor and just as culpable as the police were, its just that nobody wants to admit it and wants the blame firmly pushing 100% onto the Police. Which being a public service, could also bring civil claims for compensation.
Just saying like...
|
|
|
Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 16:23:47 GMT 1
I can assure you mate that this wouldn't be your view if a member of your family had died that day.. Or am I wrong ? It's very easy for us to say " it happened 25 years ago so let's leave it " Same was said about Jimmy savile, stuart hall etc.... To the families THIS HAPPENED YESTERDAY Perhaps I wouldn't but that's what gives me the benefit of an objective view. What do they possibly hope to gain? Every party involved with the incident that day has shouldered blame or accepted responsibility in some form or another on repeated occasions, and I'm sure most of the Police officers attending that day have paid for their mistakes with decades of guilt. As I have said before there is no justice or solace to be had for those seeking it, if they haven't come to terms and moved on from what happened that day then they never Will, and the only recompense they can hope to receive now is financial, which hopefully they won't. Their endless and senseless pursuit of something that simply does not exist serves only to turn the majority of the population against them, and the 'charity single' that was released a few years ago was disgustingly wrong on so many levels. I don't like comparing but Hillsborough was caused by negligence, inexperience and to some degree malpractice, the exact same root causes as the fire at Bradford, where was their 30 year court battle? Where are their annual nationwide memorials? I know it was done last year but for the first time in how long? Sorry .. if Bradford aren't having memorials what has that got to do with Liverpool ? Are you saying the scousers should have just shut up and accepted the lies and character assassinations ? .. surely if you have a problem here it should be directed towards Bradford ? Or juventus .. or wherever ?
|
|
|
Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Apr 7, 2016 16:26:28 GMT 1
Absolutely, should have been put to bed years ago, there is no justice to be had from this farce. I can assure you mate that this wouldn't be your view if a member of your family had died that day.. Or am I wrong ? It's very easy for us to say " it happened 25 years ago so let's leave it " Same was said about Jimmy savile, stuart hall etc.... To the families THIS HAPPENED YESTERDAY I Don't think the Jimmy Saville comparison is fair either, Hillsborough was an horrific accident caused by a series of misjudgments and negligence, The high level Peadophiles that have been exposed are just the tip of the iceberg of an epidemic that spreads to the very highest levels of the establishment.
|
|
|
Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Apr 7, 2016 16:47:19 GMT 1
Perhaps I wouldn't but that's what gives me the benefit of an objective view. What do they possibly hope to gain? Every party involved with the incident that day has shouldered blame or accepted responsibility in some form or another on repeated occasions, and I'm sure most of the Police officers attending that day have paid for their mistakes with decades of guilt. As I have said before there is no justice or solace to be had for those seeking it, if they haven't come to terms and moved on from what happened that day then they never Will, and the only recompense they can hope to receive now is financial, which hopefully they won't. Their endless and senseless pursuit of something that simply does not exist serves only to turn the majority of the population against them, and the 'charity single' that was released a few years ago was disgustingly wrong on so many levels. I don't like comparing but Hillsborough was caused by negligence, inexperience and to some degree malpractice, the exact same root causes as the fire at Bradford, where was their 30 year court battle? Where are their annual nationwide memorials? I know it was done last year but for the first time in how long? Sorry .. if Bradford aren't having memorials what has that got to do with Liverpool ? Are you saying the scousers should have just shut up and accepted the lies and character assassinations ? .. surely if you have a problem here it should be directed towards Bradford ? Or juventus .. or wherever ? Well if one group of people have moved on from what was an horrendous accidental tragedy why can't the other? What gives the Liverpool fans more of a right to a non-existent justice than anyone else?
|
|
|
Post by hypotenuse on Apr 7, 2016 17:16:45 GMT 1
Nothing to do with thousands of fans turning up without tickets and trying to force the outer gates, causing a crush incident outside the ground and convincing the Police to make the terrible decision, that it was a good idea to open the floodgates then? Nothing at all to do with the fans behaviour then? or is it just that the family of the 96 and the rest of Liverpool fans just want all blame pushing onto the police to remove any doubt about their own fans being a good part of the tragedy? There was no single entity to blame and the fans were a serious contributing factor and just as culpable as the police were, its just that nobody wants to admit it and wants the blame firmly pushing 100% onto the Police. Which being a public service, could also bring civil claims for compensation. Just saying like... No and no to your main questions You conveniently ignore facts and evidence - the policing of the ground during several visits I made in the years before the tragedy when there was no suggestion of any issues with supporters was cause for grave concern. Lessons were not learned Police, press and Government of the day lied and covered up the truth which is why it has taken 27 years to get to where we are and not 2 or 3 years
|
|
Macjinx
Andy Booth Terrier
I've got a Gibson without a case but I cant get that even tanned look on my face.
Posts: 3,748
|
Post by Macjinx on Apr 7, 2016 17:23:23 GMT 1
Nothing to do with thousands of fans turning up without tickets and trying to force the outer gates, causing a crush incident outside the ground and convincing the Police to make the terrible decision, that it was a good idea to open the floodgates then? Nothing at all to do with the fans behaviour then? or is it just that the family of the 96 and the rest of Liverpool fans just want all blame pushing onto the police to remove any doubt about their own fans being a good part of the tragedy? There was no single entity to blame and the fans were a serious contributing factor and just as culpable as the police were, its just that nobody wants to admit it and wants the blame firmly pushing 100% onto the Police. Which being a public service, could also bring civil claims for compensation. Just saying like... I take it that instead of paying your debts like a decent bloke you've decided to spout even more shite than usual. I'm only surprised that the EU and Muslims don't feature in your drivel.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 7, 2016 17:26:36 GMT 1
Nothing to do with thousands of fans turning up without tickets and trying to force the outer gates, causing a crush incident outside the ground and convincing the Police to make the terrible decision, that it was a good idea to open the floodgates then? Nothing at all to do with the fans behaviour then? or is it just that the family of the 96 and the rest of Liverpool fans just want all blame pushing onto the police to remove any doubt about their own fans being a good part of the tragedy? There was no single entity to blame and the fans were a serious contributing factor and just as culpable as the police were, its just that nobody wants to admit it and wants the blame firmly pushing 100% onto the Police. Which being a public service, could also bring civil claims for compensation. Just saying like... No and no to your main questions You conveniently ignore facts and evidence - the policing of the ground during several visits I made in the years before the tragedy when there was no suggestion of any issues with supporters was cause for grave concern. Lessons were not learned Police, press and Government of the day lied and covered up the truth which is why it has taken 27 years to get to where we are and not 2 or 3 years lessons were learned from the leeds v coventry game.. were then ignored by the FA and the police requests were over turned.. thats whats changed now and we dont have it happening again.. public order v profit isnt the issue it was.. ground safety has moved on like most other things. in truth, everyone lied about the day almost from the minute after the tragedy.. organisations were force fed the lie, thats all... they still claim to support 'whistleblowers' but they certainly dont... A few sad souls will be scapegoats, as usual.. those with the power to have changed the original scenario and the aftermath positively will escape, again..
|
|
|
Post by motherwellterrier2 on Apr 7, 2016 19:40:42 GMT 1
It's been a long time since I posted on here and now I recall why, some of the posts on here concerning an awful tragedy that affected 96 fellow football fans have made me cringe and despair in equal measure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 19:43:43 GMT 1
It's been a long time since I posted on here and now I recall why, some of the posts on here concerning an awful tragedy that affected 96 fellow football fans have made me cringe and despair in equal measure. Yep, hard to imagine the standard falling even lower than some of the stuff on the Adam Johnson/Ched Evans threads, but it has.
|
|
|
Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 19:43:55 GMT 1
I can assure you mate that this wouldn't be your view if a member of your family had died that day.. Or am I wrong ? It's very easy for us to say " it happened 25 years ago so let's leave it " Same was said about Jimmy savile, stuart hall etc.... To the families THIS HAPPENED YESTERDAY I Don't think the Jimmy Saville comparison is fair either, Hillsborough was an horrific accident caused by a series of misjudgments and negligence, The high level Peadophiles that have been exposed are just the tip of the iceberg of an epidemic that spreads to the very highest levels of the establishment. My comparison was merely in terms of " things that went on in the past that people feel don't merit further investigation " ... Nothing else
|
|
|
Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 19:45:28 GMT 1
It's been a long time since I posted on here and now I recall why, some of the posts on here concerning an awful tragedy that affected 96 fellow football fans have made me cringe and despair in equal measure. Yep, hard to imagine the standard falling even lower than some of the stuff on the Adam Johnson/Ched Evans threads, but it has. Nothing should surprise on here anymore .. But I must admit this thread has ... Truly unbelievable views
|
|
|
Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 19:50:44 GMT 1
Sorry .. if Bradford aren't having memorials what has that got to do with Liverpool ? Are you saying the scousers should have just shut up and accepted the lies and character assassinations ? .. surely if you have a problem here it should be directed towards Bradford ? Or juventus .. or wherever ? Well if one group of people have moved on from what was an horrendous accidental tragedy why can't the other? What gives the Liverpool fans more of a right to a non-existent justice than anyone else? I'm baffled about everything in this post.. Have you thought it through logically ... As I've said before get the "scousers" bit out of your head and imagine they were 96 town fans... They could easily have been .. Or that it was your dad crushed .. And also please consider what the Bradford Fire disaster has to do with the families of the Hillsborough dead
|
|
|
Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Apr 7, 2016 20:17:44 GMT 1
Well if one group of people have moved on from what was an horrendous accidental tragedy why can't the other? What gives the Liverpool fans more of a right to a non-existent justice than anyone else? I'm baffled about everything in this post.. Have you thought it through logically ... As I've said before get the "scousers" bit out of your head and imagine they were 96 town fans... They could easily have been .. Or that it was your dad crushed .. And also please consider what the Bradford Fire disaster has to do with the families of the Hillsborough dead I know you probably won't believe me but my opinion genuinely would not change regardless of who was involved, family or not it wouldn't change the fact that it was a horrendous tragedy that was not intended by any party. Tragedies happen on large and small scales, it's a fact of life, the most important thing is that the lessons learned are used to prevent similar tragedies, and no-one can deny the lessons learned from Hillsborough were implemented in the strongest fashion. As many have said, there is no one individual at fault for what happened that day, and there is nothing that the families of the victims can hope to gain that hasn't already been offered, it has been said umpteen times because it's the truth that there is no justice for these people. There will be no revelation or startling new information, there will be no change in public opinion, there will be no apology or acceptance of blame that hasn't already happened. Those are the basic facts and if you are still baffled then I don't think that's going to change.
|
|
|
Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 20:34:06 GMT 1
I'm baffled about everything in this post.. Have you thought it through logically ... As I've said before get the "scousers" bit out of your head and imagine they were 96 town fans... They could easily have been .. Or that it was your dad crushed .. And also please consider what the Bradford Fire disaster has to do with the families of the Hillsborough dead I know you probably won't believe me but my opinion genuinely would not change regardless of who was involved, family or not it wouldn't change the fact that it was a horrendous tragedy that was not intended by any party. Tragedies happen on large and small scales, it's a fact of life, the most important thing is that the lessons learned are used to prevent similar tragedies, and no-one can deny the lessons learned from Hillsborough were implemented in the strongest fashion. As many have said, there is no one individual at fault for what happened that day, and there is nothing that the families of the victims can hope to gain that hasn't already been offered, it has been said umpteen times because it's the truth that there is no justice for these people. There will be no revelation or startling new information, there will be no change in public opinion, there will be no apology or acceptance of blame that hasn't already happened. Those are the basic facts and if you are still baffled then I don't think that's going to change. baffled is a poor word.. I'm baffled by the success of Little Mix... Appalled is probably a better word .. Why you think families of dead people wouldn't want justice for their loved ones and are actually wrong for wanting it is just wrong wrong wrong... Should we not have gone after the Nazis who slaughtered thousand of Jews " just because the war was over " .? . Should we have left Stuart Hall commentating on the radio " cos he's an old man now and probably can't get it up " ? I know you aren't saying this but surely your logic of " leave things in the past cos there is nothing to be gained by the family's victims of going on about it " would lead people to conclude that ? As I say I don't think you have really thought it through and put yourselves in other people's shoes... To be fair even though we often disagree I know you do think deeply about things and have a good heart.. So I guess that's why I'm a bit baffled .. I'll leave it there
|
|
|
Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Apr 7, 2016 21:26:28 GMT 1
I know you probably won't believe me but my opinion genuinely would not change regardless of who was involved, family or not it wouldn't change the fact that it was a horrendous tragedy that was not intended by any party. Tragedies happen on large and small scales, it's a fact of life, the most important thing is that the lessons learned are used to prevent similar tragedies, and no-one can deny the lessons learned from Hillsborough were implemented in the strongest fashion. As many have said, there is no one individual at fault for what happened that day, and there is nothing that the families of the victims can hope to gain that hasn't already been offered, it has been said umpteen times because it's the truth that there is no justice for these people. There will be no revelation or startling new information, there will be no change in public opinion, there will be no apology or acceptance of blame that hasn't already happened. Those are the basic facts and if you are still baffled then I don't think that's going to change. baffled is a poor word.. I'm baffled by the success of Little Mix... Appalled is probably a better word .. Why you think families of dead people wouldn't want justice for their loved ones and are actually wrong for wanting it is just wrong wrong wrong... Should we not have gone after the Nazis who slaughtered thousand of Jews " just because the war was over " .? . Should we have left Stuart Hall commentating on the radio " cos he's an old man now and probably can't get it up " ? I know you aren't saying this but surely your logic of " leave things in the past cos there is nothing to be gained by the family's victims of going on about it " would lead people to conclude that ? As I say I don't think you have really thought it through and put yourselves in other people's shoes... To be fair even though we often disagree I know you do think deeply about things and have a good heart.. So I guess that's why I'm a bit baffled .. I'll leave it there You are totally misunderstanding what I'm saying. Yes, in the initial instance they Were totally correct to pursue an admittance from those responsible that they should have and could have done more to prevent the tragedy. Yes, in the initial instance they Were totally correct to enforce changes within the game to prevent anything like this happening again. Yes, in the initial instance they Were right to seek an official apology from those authorities that let them down, and from the media who attempted to smear/falsely accuse of wrongdoing some of the victims from that day. Yes, in the initial instance they Were right to raise public awareness of authorities initial refusal to accept some or all of the responsibility for what happened. A question that I have asked all along and neither you or anyone else has provided an answer to is what else can they possibly expect to achieve that they already haven't? I never said that they were wrong to want justice and shouldn't have it, I never said that We should forget about it because of when happened. What I did say is that they are wrong to continue pursuing the issue when every reasonable and conceivable objective they had was met some time ago, hence why I said they are pursuing a justice that doesn't exist because they already have it! It shouldn't be forgotten, but from a legal standpoint there can be no arguing that the case should have been resolved quite some time ago, hence why I said it should have been put to bed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 22:20:59 GMT 1
Nothing to do with thousands of fans turning up without tickets and trying to force the outer gates, causing a crush incident outside the ground and convincing the Police to make the terrible decision, that it was a good idea to open the floodgates then? Nothing at all to do with the fans behaviour then? or is it just that the family of the 96 and the rest of Liverpool fans just want all blame pushing onto the police to remove any doubt about their own fans being a good part of the tragedy? There was no single entity to blame and the fans were a serious contributing factor and just as culpable as the police were, its just that nobody wants to admit it and wants the blame firmly pushing 100% onto the Police. Which being a public service, could also bring civil claims for compensation. Just saying like... No and no to your main questions You conveniently ignore facts and evidence - the policing of the ground during several visits I made in the years before the tragedy when there was no suggestion of any issues with supporters was cause for grave concern. Lessons were not learned Police, press and Government of the day lied and covered up the truth which is why it has taken 27 years to get to where we are and not 2 or 3 years So the fans were not to blame at all, not one little bit? B0llocks. Heysel was also the fault of the police too I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 7, 2016 22:32:40 GMT 1
Thanks Kelvin McKenzie
|
|
|
Post by y2troy on Apr 7, 2016 23:39:44 GMT 1
No and no to your main questions You conveniently ignore facts and evidence - the policing of the ground during several visits I made in the years before the tragedy when there was no suggestion of any issues with supporters was cause for grave concern. Lessons were not learned Police, press and Government of the day lied and covered up the truth which is why it has taken 27 years to get to where we are and not 2 or 3 years So the fans were not to blame at all, not one little bit? B0llocks. Heysel was also the fault of the police too I suppose. Seriously what a clown u r and thats putting it nicely and feel sick you call yourself a fan of football let alone HTFC, in everything in life evidence is key and even the heysel disaster look at that i know a few liverpool fans and a group of them ghot kicked out of stadium at heysel and didnt even know what happened untill they got back to hotel room, so untill you get all evidence and understand what happened dont comment on a tragedy as we are all one group of football fans wanting a good game on pitch ,your opinions do not matter as look up the word tragedy and stop trying to cause shite .
|
|
|
Post by y2troy on Apr 7, 2016 23:42:10 GMT 1
No and no to your main questions You conveniently ignore facts and evidence - the policing of the ground during several visits I made in the years before the tragedy when there was no suggestion of any issues with supporters was cause for grave concern. Lessons were not learned Police, press and Government of the day lied and covered up the truth which is why it has taken 27 years to get to where we are and not 2 or 3 years So the fans were not to blame at all, not one little bit? B0llocks. Heysel was also the fault of the police too I suppose. Seriously what a clown u r and thats putting it nicely and feel sick you call yourself a fan of football let alone HTFC, in everything in life evidence is key and even the heysel disaster, i know a few liverpool fans and a group of them got kicked out of stadium at heysel and didnt even know what happened untill they got back to hotel room, so untill you get all evidence and understand what happened dont comment on a tragedy as we are all one group of football fans wanting a good game on pitch ,your opinions do not matter as look up the word tragedy and stop trying to cause shite .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 23:58:19 GMT 1
This thread has been thoroughly trolled.
|
|
|
Post by Boaty McBoatface on Apr 8, 2016 0:08:46 GMT 1
For me, Hillsborough was 100% the fault of SYP, with the most damming indictment not the fact that they didn't channel supporters away from the central pen (not sure how realistic this was, given they'd opened the gates in total panic) but the fact that unlike in previous years, they didn't have a checkpoint system preventing anyone getting anywhere near the gates without a ticket in the first place.
It was Duckenfield's first big game at the ground and he never sought advice on how the crowd had been managed in previous years. Then when it was obvious he had a serious problem with uncontrolled numbers arriving (due entirely to the lack of checkpoints), he panicked and opened the gates without putting in place measures to control the crowd once inside the ground. Then of course he blamed fans for forcing the gates open.
People that blame the Liverpool supporters are completely missing the point. It's a bit like taking a toddler for a walk and letting him walk into a busy road, then blaming the toddler for getting run over.
|
|
|
Post by EastCoastTerrier on Apr 8, 2016 7:49:37 GMT 1
This was all before my time, and reading the comments has educated me somewhat in the details, but I struggle to get past that it all began from fans trying to get in the stadium with no tickets. If that didn't happen none of the following incidents would have.
|
|
|
Post by morleyterrier on Apr 8, 2016 7:55:21 GMT 1
This was all before my time, and reading the comments has educated me somewhat in the details, but I struggle to get past that it all began from fans trying to get in the stadium with no tickets. If that didn't happen none of the following incidents would have. That's torn it Hungary......
|
|
|
Post by Lard Buttie on Apr 8, 2016 8:15:19 GMT 1
This was all before my time, and reading the comments has educated me somewhat in the details, but I struggle to get past that it all began from fans trying to get in the stadium with no tickets. If that didn't happen none of the following incidents would have. So what is the Police's role when 'policing' these events? Crowd control is one aspect.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 8:33:25 GMT 1
This was all before my time, and reading the comments has educated me somewhat in the details, but I struggle to get past that it all began from fans trying to get in the stadium with no tickets. If that didn't happen none of the following incidents would have. Can't believe after all these years the Suns proven to be lying allegations still get credence. As i recall the Taylor report back in 1989 debunked the theory a minority of fans without tickets were to blame.
|
|
|
Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 8, 2016 8:36:40 GMT 1
|
|