How do we assess progression?

[Colt Seavers]

Tin hat time, as i await the avalanche of abuse from the blinkered blue and white spectacle brigade.

I sincerely hope that Messers Wagner and Hoyle are on their game here when it comes to backing up the hype ahead of next season. While most on here are happy with how things are going, i think it is more in anticipation of next season, as opposed to the final product of this season.

Progression as far as i am concerned means moving forward, this is what i am hoping happens next season and that we can maybe look at hitting around the 60 points marker, finishing higher than 16th place, getting through a season with the same manager and maybe troubling some of the top teams during the course of it.

While the wankfest continues ahead of the Wagner revolution season, lets hope this guy does turn out to be the real deal, at this moment in time i am firmly sat on the fence.

The Championship is a very competitive league now and in order to just compete, you need to spend money on better players than we have historically attracted, try to retain them and pay them the required bunce. I am not telling people anything they don't already know, but i seriously have to question how many of the players currently in the squad have this required quality.

If we look at yesterdays squad:

Steer: We definitely let a better keeper go
Davidson: Think the majority will agree he is a mile off
Hudson: Not good enough, start him in his coaching role as of 8th may.
Lynch: Looking forward to seeing him with another solid centre half
Dempsey: may potetially be good enough, not really seen enough to form too much of an opinion
Whitehead: End of the road
Huws: Wigan bound, started well,but not been overly impressed
Lolley: Again, potential to be top class,need to be less predictable and work on his game over the summer.
Bunn: Fits and starts, can't become reliant on which Bunn turns up
Van La Parra: Good summer and i am excited from what i have seen lately.
Wells: Shown the reason we paid the money we did. 18 goals in a team that has rarely played to his strengths is a great achievment. Will have sparked some interest from other clubs looking for a thieve. I will stand The Drop of York if he isn't this years player of the season.

Hogg: I would keep Hogg, grafter who is good enough for the championship
Matmour: I will wait until next season before making a cast iron decision on him, but as yet not really impressed
Patterson: Like this lad, think he definitely has the quality i in his locker, hope we sign him.
Crainie: Squad player at best
Scannell: Frustrating as fuck. Good player on his day, but too much like Bunn to be relied on regular.
Smith: Don't actually mind Smith. Unless we sign a fantastic right back, he would be first choice next year.

Based on that team, you would say we need around 6-7 fresh, quality individuals in next season. 2 of which we already have. 2 in each department plus maybe a new keeper.

While i have seen some flashes of what Wagner is looking for, they have been all too infrequent to get too much of a boner about.

League table wise, we are no further forward than we were when DW took over and we can't finish any higher and certainly with any greater points than last season.

Is DW the man to take us forward? I hope so, but i am firmly on the fence and will be regardless of who we sign until half a dozen games into Next season.

[Deleted]

May 1, 2016 11:35:41 GMT 1 Colt Seavers said:

Tin hat time, as i await the avalanche of abuse from the blinkered blue and white spectacle brigade.

I sincerely hope that Messers Wagner and Hoyle are on their game here when it comes to backing up the hype ahead of next season. While most on here are happy with how things are going, i think it is more in anticipation of next season, as opposed to the final product of this season.

Progression as far as i am concerned means moving forward, this is what i am hoping happens next season and that we can maybe look at hitting around the 60 points marker, finishing higher than 16th place, getting through a season with the same manager and maybe troubling some of the top teams during the course of it.

While the wankfest continues ahead of the Wagner revolution season, lets hope this guy does turn out to be the real deal, at this moment in time i am firmly sat on the fence.

The Championship is a very competitive league now and in order to just compete, you need to spend money on better players than we have historically attracted, try to retain them and pay them the required bunce. I am not telling people anything they don't already know, but i seriously have to question how many of the players currently in the squad have this required quality.

If we look at yesterdays squad:

Steer: We definitely let a better keeper go
Davidson: Think the majority will agree he is a mile off
Hudson: Not good enough, start him in his coaching role as of 8th may.
Lynch: Looking forward to seeing him with another solid centre half
Dempsey: may potetially be good enough, not really seen enough to form too much of an opinion
Whitehead: End of the road
Huws: Wigan bound, started well,but not been overly impressed
Lolley: Again, potential to be top class,need to be less predictable and work on his game over the summer.
Bunn: Fits and starts, can't become reliant on which Bunn turns up
Van La Parra: Good summer and i am excited from what i have seen lately.
Wells: Shown the reason we paid the money we did. 18 goals in a team that has rarely played to his strengths is a great achievment. Will have sparked some interest from other clubs looking for a thieve. I will stand The Drop of York if he isn't this years player of the season.

Hogg: I would keep Hogg, grafter who is good enough for the championship
Matmour: I will wait until next season before making a cast iron decision on him, but as yet not really impressed
Patterson: Like this lad, think he definitely has the quality i in his locker, hope we sign him.
Crainie: Squad player at best
Scannell: Frustrating as fuck. Good player on his day, but too much like Bunn to be relied on regular.
Smith: Don't actually mind Smith. Unless we sign a fantastic right back, he would be first choice next year.

Based on that team, you would say we need around 6-7 fresh, quality individuals in next season. 2 of which we already have. 2 in each department plus maybe a new keeper.

While i have seen some flashes of what Wagner is looking for, they have been all too infrequent to get too much of a boner about.

League table wise, we are no further forward than we were when DW took over and we can't finish any higher and certainly with any greater points than last season.

Is DW the man to take us forward? I hope so, but i am firmly on the fence and will be regardless of who we sign until half a dozen games into Next season.

When i read the first line i thought here we go an ott reaction. However i can't see much ott apart from that line. Don't think you'll need that tin hat.

[Lard Buttie]

We've appeared to hit a glass ceiling in the Championship since we were promoted - The Championship can be split into 3 mini leagues and we are in the 3rd of those leagues since promotion - cup runs have been non existent and stability on & off the pitch missing as well.

We appear to have some of the ingredients in place now to try and jump up to mini league 2 but time will tell if that happens (targeted signings etc)

[Chips Longhorn]

Use of the word "wankfest" a bit shoddy .. but some good points raised imo

[detox]

tbh, after 4 years of treading water (commonly referred to as consolidating) I'm glad to see what's happening at Town now.

The style of football is infinitely superior to what we had before
The fitness levels are what they should be, at last
The daft match day pricing issue has been sorted out and we have a stunning SC offer for next season
and Clibbo has gone
The U21's and U18's are doing very well in their respective leagues
Dean is going to splash some cash in the summer
and we have Wagner who at least says it how it is, and seems a right decent bloke who knows what he's doing.

that's the positives...

The negatives..?

we are still burdoned with a squad of 'just not quite good enough ' players, although I accept it might only take 4 or 5 newbies to fix that.
we still haven't sorted the south stand 'issue' (or the away fans rather)..although it might not be an issue to many.

So, with that I am indeed quite happy with the progress thus far ..

For next season though, measuring progress purely on the pitch , I'd say -

a) continue to play the high tempo game
b) bring in recruits who are at a higher standard than what we've had
c) tighten up the defence and score more goals
d) sort out why we can't score from any of the 260+ corners we get a season
e) finish the season flirting with the play-offs...
f) have a decent run in the f a cup , 6th round perhaps
g) ditto in the league cup
h) average crowds 20,000 for the season
i) we have a decent 1st team kit and use it home and away (where possible)

[dalton knee-jerk]

May 1, 2016 11:35:41 GMT 1 Colt Seavers said:

Tin hat time, as i await the avalanche of abuse from the blinkered blue and white spectacle brigade.

I sincerely hope that Messers Wagner and Hoyle are on their game here when it comes to backing up the hype ahead of next season. While most on here are happy with how things are going, i think it is more in anticipation of next season, as opposed to the final product of this season.

Progression as far as i am concerned means moving forward, this is what i am hoping happens next season and that we can maybe look at hitting around the 60 points marker, finishing higher than 16th place, getting through a season with the same manager and maybe troubling some of the top teams during the course of it.

While the wankfest continues ahead of the Wagner revolution season, lets hope this guy does turn out to be the real deal, at this moment in time i am firmly sat on the fence.

The Championship is a very competitive league now and in order to just compete, you need to spend money on better players than we have historically attracted, try to retain them and pay them the required bunce. I am not telling people anything they don't already know, but i seriously have to question how many of the players currently in the squad have this required quality.

If we look at yesterdays squad:

Steer: We definitely let a better keeper go
Davidson: Think the majority will agree he is a mile off
Hudson: Not good enough, start him in his coaching role as of 8th may.
Lynch: Looking forward to seeing him with another solid centre half
Dempsey: may potetially be good enough, not really seen enough to form too much of an opinion
Whitehead: End of the road
Huws: Wigan bound, started well,but not been overly impressed
Lolley: Again, potential to be top class,need to be less predictable and work on his game over the summer.
Bunn: Fits and starts, can't become reliant on which Bunn turns up
Van La Parra: Good summer and i am excited from what i have seen lately.
Wells: Shown the reason we paid the money we did. 18 goals in a team that has rarely played to his strengths is a great achievment. Will have sparked some interest from other clubs looking for a thieve. I will stand The Drop of York if he isn't this years player of the season.

Hogg: I would keep Hogg, grafter who is good enough for the championship
Matmour: I will wait until next season before making a cast iron decision on him, but as yet not really impressed
Patterson: Like this lad, think he definitely has the quality i in his locker, hope we sign him.
Crainie: Squad player at best
Scannell: Frustrating as fuck. Good player on his day, but too much like Bunn to be relied on regular.
Smith: Don't actually mind Smith. Unless we sign a fantastic right back, he would be first choice next year.

Based on that team, you would say we need around 6-7 fresh, quality individuals in next season. 2 of which we already have. 2 in each department plus maybe a new keeper.

While i have seen some flashes of what Wagner is looking for, they have been all too infrequent to get too much of a boner about.

League table wise, we are no further forward than we were when DW took over and we can't finish any higher and certainly with any greater points than last season.

Is DW the man to take us forward? I hope so, but i am firmly on the fence and will be regardless of who we sign until half a dozen games into Next season.





No need for a tin hat really, most of what you have said is fair. But, and answer honestly please....

Can you remember a season you have looked forward to more for a good few years?

No need to mention bandwagons or anything but this new regime with a full and proper pre-season has the potential to be exciting. Yes, we need 4 or 5 signings. Yes, a few of what we have are nowhere near good enough. I'm not in the wankfest category you mention but bloody hell it's a good time to be a Town fan

[Lard Buttie]

If we are to persist with this high tempo/pressing game (for a full season) squad depth will be important and will need addressing in the summer

[Lard Buttie]

p.s. I think attracting back stay away fans will also be another sign of progression for me

[Tanzanian Terrier]

May 1, 2016 11:35:41 GMT 1 Colt Seavers said:

Tin hat time, as i await the avalanche of abuse from the blinkered blue and white spectacle brigade.

I sincerely hope that Messers Wagner and Hoyle are on their game here when it comes to backing up the hype ahead of next season. While most on here are happy with how things are going, i think it is more in anticipation of next season, as opposed to the final product of this season.

Progression as far as i am concerned means moving forward, this is what i am hoping happens next season and that we can maybe look at hitting around the 60 points marker, finishing higher than 16th place, getting through a season with the same manager and maybe troubling some of the top teams during the course of it.

While the wankfest continues ahead of the Wagner revolution season, lets hope this guy does turn out to be the real deal, at this moment in time i am firmly sat on the fence.

i have just been to the opticians and have my brand new, all singing, all dancing blue and white contact lenses (spectacles are so yesterday!!!)

I sincerely hope that Messers Wagner and Hoyle are on their game here when it comes to backing up the hype ahead of next season. While most on here are happy with how things are going, i think it is more in anticipation of next season, as opposed to the final product of this season.
Valid point and a good analysis of what many might think but do you not think there is reason to be happy and have much anticipation for next season?

Progression as far as i am concerned means moving forward, this is what i am hoping happens next season and that we can maybe look at hitting around the 60 points marker, finishing higher than 16th place, getting through a season with the same manager and maybe troubling some of the top teams during the course of it.
Again another valid analysis and I do think that we have moved forward. Do you? Whilst this move forward might have not been reflected in results and final league position, performances on the whole have improved dramatically and what is also true is that these performances have been with the same players who played under CP. I do believe that DW will see the whole coming season out simply because I do believe in what he is doing and also DH cannot afford from a credibility perspective to provide nothing but the support that DW wants.

While the wankfest continues ahead of the Wagner revolution season, lets hope this guy does turn out to be the real deal, at this moment in time i am firmly sat on the fence.
99% of the male population wank, the other 1% lie!!! Why is it that you will not come down to either side of the fence? Surely it must be sore on the arse having the fence between your buttocks? Or is it that you don't want to be proved wrong and DW is not the man or indeed proved right because DW will be the man. Sometimes in life we have to take a leap of faith. In the words of the Nike marketeers, JUST DO IT!

The Championship is a very competitive league now and in order to just compete, you need to spend money on better players than we have historically attracted, try to retain them and pay them the required bunce. I am not telling people anything they don't already know, but i seriously have to question how many of the players currently in the squad have this required quality.
A very valid point and worthy of consideration but if DW is the man and I think that the general opinion, not just amongst fans but even wider afield away from the club is that DW knows what he is talking about and whilst yes, historically we have found it difficult to attract certain types of players, I am hopeful that this will not be the case this season.

If we look at yesterdays squad:

Steer: We definitely let a better keeper go - You may indeed by right but I think the release of AS was more to do with an offer we could not turn down but equally if the reporting is correct then we may be looking to sign 2 new keepers
Davidson: Think the majority will agree he is a mile off - Agreed and Chris Löwe will hopefully fill this void and maybe another as well
Hudson: Not good enough, start him in his coaching role as of 8th may. In my view he is a professional and does make errors but you cannot fault his commitment, however the arrival of Hefele may see his role more of a cameo this coming season, depending on injuries and suspensions
Lynch: Looking forward to seeing him with another solid centre half As above with Hefele they hopefully will prove to be a dominant pairing for the season
Dempsey: may potetially be good enough, not really seen enough to form too much of an opinion He has potential and DW thinks so, time will tell but he is a versatile player able to fit into different positions and may prove useful because of that
Whitehead: End of the road DISAGREE, he is strong player in my view and has had some really man winning games. I recall seeing him at Brum when he was injured and in that game he was my MOM. On this occasion I think you need to wear spectacles!!!
Huws: Wigan bound, started well,but not been overly impressed. I will not be surprised if he stays or goes and for what is reportedly being asked for him, we can do better
Lolley: Again, potential to be top class,need to be less predictable and work on his game over the summer. I believe he will improve his game dramatically, the thing for me is, that he always wants to turn and run at the opposition but equally he needs to learn when to pass earlier and perhaps get a better understanding of players around him.
Bunn: Fits and starts, can't become reliant on which Bunn turns up. Cannot disagree with that
Van La Parra: Good summer and i am excited from what i have seen lately. Agreed
Wells: Shown the reason we paid the money we did. 18 goals in a team that has rarely played to his strengths is a great achievment. Will have sparked some interest from other clubs looking for a thieve. I will stand The Drop of York if he isn't this years player of the season. And fans player of the year, 18 goals this season and has played every game under DW but did not under CP. Someone must be wrong!

Hogg: I would keep Hogg, grafter who is good enough for the championship. Agreed
Matmour: I will wait until next season before making a cast iron decision on him, but as yet not really impressed. I like Matmour and think he will be good for us next season, he seemed to be the only one grafting when he came on yesterday and he scored against Leeds!!!!!
Patterson: Like this lad, think he definitely has the quality i in his locker, hope we sign him. Agreed as do many I think
Crainie: Squad player at best. He has put in some good performances when he has come on or played but you maybe right in that he will be a squad player BUT who isn't a squad player under DW?
Scannell: Frustrating as fuck. Good player on his day, but too much like Bunn to be relied on regular.
Smith: Don't actually mind Smith. Unless we sign a fantastic right back, he would be first choice next year. He needs to up his game and learn to cross on first contact with the ball rather than taking a touch, but think we need a back up for him, maybe KD or someone else, I seem to recall Cranie can play in that position?



While i have seen some flashes of what Wagner is looking for, they have been all too infrequent to get too much of a boner about. Perhaps your libido is low? Given the time time, the players and the support both on and off the field, he will do well for us


Is DW the man to take us forward? I hope so, but i am firmly on the fence and will be regardless of who we sign until half a dozen games into Next season. YES YES YES, he is the man to take us forward. What is clear is that you don't like committing yourself, go on be a devil, do it, what have you got to lose.

PS have you bought a season card on the basis that you are sat on the fence?

[detox]

May 1, 2016 11:58:59 GMT 1 Lard Buttie said:

p.s. I think attracting back stay away fans will also be another sign of progression for me

I think that's already happened tbh ...we've sold nigh on 15,000 SC's and the highest total gate (home fans) we've averaged in the past 4 years was 13,348 in 2012/13 season..that would include pay on the gate and SC holders. I reckon we'll still pull in 1,500+ pay on the day, more if we do well..add in an average 1,500 away fans and we'll be reporting gates of 18,000 , instead of the 12,600 we currently average.

[Deleted]

Eeew. Who wankfests after a 4-0.

Wankfestless should be the watchword this weekend.

[griffa]

Progression! Unfortunately it often seems to be, 1 step forward, two steps back.
I've watched & supported Town since 1962 & have witnessed many ups & downs.
The appointment of David Wagner as manager looked to be an act of desperation by Dean Hoyle.
But I've liked the fresh approach DW brought to Town & generally, success this year had to be all about survival in the Championship.
Despite poor recent performances & results, we've managed to survive.
Next year like all Town fans, who may have bought season cards for next season, I'm demanding better performances & results.
There has undoubtably been improvement in some areas of our play, there are several areas of our game that concern me, for example attacking corners & free kicks & the over importance of possesion stats, in the modern game.
Dean is the best Chairman, I've ever seen at Town, but he is not patient, he must give DW time to develop the team, as it takes time to off load players with no future at Town.
If the rumours are true that Dean is going to spend big, this summer, my appeal to Deano, is to give DW time!
Would a top 10 finish satisfy Town fans, or would we demand a top 6 finish, next season - UTT.

[Lard Buttie]

May 1, 2016 12:25:02 GMT 1 detox said:

May 1, 2016 11:58:59 GMT 1 Lard Buttie said:

p.s. I think attracting back stay away fans will also be another sign of progression for me

I think that's already happened tbh ...we've sold nigh on 15,000 SC's and the highest total gate (home fans) we've averaged in the past 4 years was 13,348 in 2012/13 season..that would include pay on the gate and SC holders. I reckon we'll still pull in 1,500+ pay on the day, more if we do well..add in an average 1,500 away fans and we'll be reporting gates of 18,000 , instead of the 12,600 we currently average.

Good point although I remember when he had to £100 season tickets I felt that some fans bought them at that price never intended to go to all the games.

ST sold doesn't necessarily mean they'll go to all games.

£179 equates to what, 7 games per season on a pay as you go basis.

The intentions are good but if the product on the pitch doesn't live up to expectations they they'll stay away again

[hypotenuse]

Purely based on the games I have seen (about 9/10 per season) I feel we have gone backwards during this season.
Losing Coady, Smithies and Butterfield was very challenging for the club and set us off in the back foot. Powell did well to steady the ship in Sept/Oct and Wagner has continued the good work.
But consider how well we finished last season plus great games during that season v Forest (h) Watford (h) Brentford (h) Derby (h) Blackburn (h) even Fulham (h).

I haven't see a single game in the last 6 months as good as any of those and the best performance this season in games I have been to have been Bolton (h) and Wolves (h)

No sitting on the fence from me. We have a lot to do to be good enough to stay in the division next season, never mind some of the wild predictions of challenging the top 6.
I will be there to see some good football next weekend but suspect it is more likely to come from our opponents.

[Lard Buttie]

May 1, 2016 12:32:06 GMT 1 griffa said:

Progression! Unfortunately it often seems to be, 1 step forward, two steps back.
I've watched & supported Town since 1962 & have witnessed many ups & downs.
The appointment of David Wagner as manager looked to be an act of desperation by Dean Hoyle.
But I've liked the fresh approach DW brought to Town & generally, success this year had to be all about survival in the Championship.
Despite poor recent performances & results, we've managed to survive.
Next year like all Town fans, who may have bought season cards for next season, I'm demanding better performances & results.
There has undoubtably been improvement in some areas of our play, there are several areas of our game that concern me, for example attacking corners & free kicks & the over importance of possesion stats, in the modern game.
Dean is the best Chairman, I've ever seen at Town, but he is not patient, he must give DW time to develop the team, as it takes time to off load players with no future at Town.
If the rumours are true that Dean is going to spend big, this summer, my appeal to Deano, is to give DW time!
Would a top 10 finish satisfy Town fans, or would we demand a top 6 finish, next season -UTT.

Top half finish would be good for me as well as a decent cup run & beating some top league sides convincingly at home

[Colt Seavers]

May 1, 2016 12:18:35 GMT 1 Tanzanian Terrier said:

May 1, 2016 11:35:41 GMT 1 Colt Seavers said:

Tin hat time, as i await the avalanche of abuse from the blinkered blue and white spectacle brigade.

I sincerely hope that Messers Wagner and Hoyle are on their game here when it comes to backing up the hype ahead of next season. While most on here are happy with how things are going, i think it is more in anticipation of next season, as opposed to the final product of this season.

Progression as far as i am concerned means moving forward, this is what i am hoping happens next season and that we can maybe look at hitting around the 60 points marker, finishing higher than 16th place, getting through a season with the same manager and maybe troubling some of the top teams during the course of it.

While the wankfest continues ahead of the Wagner revolution season, lets hope this guy does turn out to be the real deal, at this moment in time i am firmly sat on the fence.

i have just been to the opticians and have my brand new, all singing, all dancing blue and white contact lenses (spectacles are so yesterday!!!)

I sincerely hope that Messers Wagner and Hoyle are on their game here when it comes to backing up the hype ahead of next season. While most on here are happy with how things are going, i think it is more in anticipation of next season, as opposed to the final product of this season.
Valid point and a good analysis of what many might think but do you not think there is reason to be happy and have much anticipation for next season?

Progression as far as i am concerned means moving forward, this is what i am hoping happens next season and that we can maybe look at hitting around the 60 points marker, finishing higher than 16th place, getting through a season with the same manager and maybe troubling some of the top teams during the course of it.
Again another valid analysis and I do think that we have moved forward. Do you? Whilst this move forward might have not been reflected in results and final league position, performances on the whole have improved dramatically and what is also true is that these performances have been with the same players who played under CP. I do believe that DW will see the whole coming season out simply because I do believe in what he is doing and also DH cannot afford from a credibility perspective to provide nothing but the support that DW wants.

While the wankfest continues ahead of the Wagner revolution season, lets hope this guy does turn out to be the real deal, at this moment in time i am firmly sat on the fence.
99% of the male population wank, the other 1% lie!!! Why is it that you will not come down to either side of the fence? Surely it must be sore on the arse having the fence between your buttocks? Or is it that you don't want to be proved wrong and DW is not the man or indeed proved right because DW will be the man. Sometimes in life we have to take a leap of faith. In the words of the Nike marketeers, JUST DO IT!

The Championship is a very competitive league now and in order to just compete, you need to spend money on better players than we have historically attracted, try to retain them and pay them the required bunce. I am not telling people anything they don't already know, but i seriously have to question how many of the players currently in the squad have this required quality.
A very valid point and worthy of consideration but if DW is the man and I think that the general opinion, not just amongst fans but even wider afield away from the club is that DW knows what he is talking about and whilst yes, historically we have found it difficult to attract certain types of players, I am hopeful that this will not be the case this season.

If we look at yesterdays squad:

Steer: We definitely let a better keeper go - You may indeed by right but I think the release of AS was more to do with an offer we could not turn down but equally if the reporting is correct then we may be looking to sign 2 new keepers
Davidson: Think the majority will agree he is a mile off - Agreed and Chris Löwe will hopefully fill this void and maybe another as well
Hudson: Not good enough, start him in his coaching role as of 8th may. In my view he is a professional and does make errors but you cannot fault his commitment, however the arrival of Hefele may see his role more of a cameo this coming season, depending on injuries and suspensions
Lynch: Looking forward to seeing him with another solid centre half As above with Hefele they hopefully will prove to be a dominant pairing for the season
Dempsey: may potetially be good enough, not really seen enough to form too much of an opinion He has potential and DW thinks so, time will tell but he is a versatile player able to fit into different positions and may prove useful because of that
Whitehead: End of the road DISAGREE, he is strong player in my view and has had some really man winning games. I recall seeing him at Brum when he was injured and in that game he was my MOM. On this occasion I think you need to wear spectacles!!!
Huws: Wigan bound, started well,but not been overly impressed. I will not be surprised if he stays or goes and for what is reportedly being asked for him, we can do better
Lolley: Again, potential to be top class,need to be less predictable and work on his game over the summer. I believe he will improve his game dramatically, the thing for me is, that he always wants to turn and run at the opposition but equally he needs to learn when to pass earlier and perhaps get a better understanding of players around him.
Bunn: Fits and starts, can't become reliant on which Bunn turns up. Cannot disagree with that
Van La Parra: Good summer and i am excited from what i have seen lately. Agreed
Wells: Shown the reason we paid the money we did. 18 goals in a team that has rarely played to his strengths is a great achievment. Will have sparked some interest from other clubs looking for a thieve. I will stand The Drop of York if he isn't this years player of the season. And fans player of the year, 18 goals this season and has played every game under DW but did not under CP. Someone must be wrong!

Hogg: I would keep Hogg, grafter who is good enough for the championship. Agreed
Matmour: I will wait until next season before making a cast iron decision on him, but as yet not really impressed. I like Matmour and think he will be good for us next season, he seemed to be the only one grafting when he came on yesterday and he scored against Leeds!!!!!
Patterson: Like this lad, think he definitely has the quality i in his locker, hope we sign him. Agreed as do many I think
Crainie: Squad player at best. He has put in some good performances when he has come on or played but you maybe right in that he will be a squad player BUT who isn't a squad player under DW?
Scannell: Frustrating as fuck. Good player on his day, but too much like Bunn to be relied on regular.
Smith: Don't actually mind Smith. Unless we sign a fantastic right back, he would be first choice next year. He needs to up his game and learn to cross on first contact with the ball rather than taking a touch, but think we need a back up for him, maybe KD or someone else, I seem to recall Cranie can play in that position?



While i have seen some flashes of what Wagner is looking for, they have been all too infrequent to get too much of a boner about. Perhaps your libido is low? Given the time time, the players and the support both on and off the field, he will do well for us


Is DW the man to take us forward? I hope so, but i am firmly on the fence and will be regardless of who we sign until half a dozen games into Next season. YES YES YES, he is the man to take us forward. What is clear is that you don't like committing yourself, go on be a devil, do it, what have you got to lose.

PS have you bought a season card on the basis that you are sat on the fence?

I bought a season card as it was ano brainer regardless, so the sitting on the fence is irrelevant.

How is it possible to commit when the evidence is inconclusive. Some great performances, some poor performances. I too was at Birmingham, for me the best away performance this season. Ive also witnessed some shockers as well.

If you were to commit an opinion to next season based on this season, you would say no, i don't see us doing much as i see the league being even harder next season. This is why we have to invest over the summer, and then we won't know until a few games in how we match up.

What you are doing is sticking a pin in ,where as i prefer to study the form as a way of finding a winner. You may well be correct, we may also be managerless come Christmas.

[galpharm2400]

Its tough when its constantly 'a work in progress'..

When do you accept the progress is going well enough, quickly enough?

When do you accept that its doing neither and change the whole approach?

Please note that in football, 'quickly enough' can mean a great deal of money both in or out of the club..

With Town its very much dependant on how long Dean wants to fund the 'work' and what he sees as 'progress'..

This isnt second team, development football and time is a very costly factor. Also at this time in our 'development' we have Wells and possibly Billing as saleable assets and we could do with one or two more attracting decent attention to continue down the well plotted and well known business model we have running here..

I hope a couple or more lower league german imports plus vlp works well for us but I wait in sincere hope that we do look further and higher in the summer.

[detox]

May 1, 2016 12:33:47 GMT 1 Lard Buttie said:

May 1, 2016 12:25:02 GMT 1 detox said:

I think that's already happened tbh ...we've sold nigh on 15,000 SC's and the highest total gate (home fans) we've averaged in the past 4 years was 13,348 in 2012/13 season..that would include pay on the gate and SC holders. I reckon we'll still pull in 1,500+ pay on the day, more if we do well..add in an average 1,500 away fans and we'll be reporting gates of 18,000 , instead of the 12,600 we currently average.

Good point although I remember when he had to £100 season tickets I felt that some fans bought them at that price never intended to go to all the games.

ST sold doesn't necessarily mean they'll go to all games.

£179 equates to what, 7 games per season on a pay as you go basis.

The intentions are good but if the product on the pitch doesn't live up to expectations they they'll stay away again

let's hope we start the season off well, get up near the top and attract a bit of publicity - then the 'casuals' will come down..

[waltzingthecowshed]

May 1, 2016 12:25:02 GMT 1 detox said:

May 1, 2016 11:58:59 GMT 1 Lard Buttie said:

p.s. I think attracting back stay away fans will also be another sign of progression for me

I think that's already happened tbh ...we've sold nigh on 15,000 SC's and the highest total gate (home fans) we've averaged in the past 4 years was 13,348 in 2012/13 season..that would include pay on the gate and SC holders. I reckon we'll still pull in 1,500+ pay on the day, more if we do well..add in an average 1,500 away fans and we'll be reporting gates of 18,000 , instead of the 12,600 we currently average.

How about the stay away fans who havent taken the offer yet, only a winning team will get them down you wont see all Town fans get season cards its attracting them down ie matchday pricing and a winning team that will do this

[Deleted]

May 1, 2016 11:35:41 GMT 1 Colt Seavers said:

Tin hat time, as i await the avalanche of abuse from the blinkered blue and white spectacle brigade.

I sincerely hope that Messers Wagner and Hoyle are on their game here when it comes to backing up the hype ahead of next season. While most on here are happy with how things are going, i think it is more in anticipation of next season, as opposed to the final product of this season.

Progression as far as i am concerned means moving forward, this is what i am hoping happens next season and that we can maybe look at hitting around the 60 points marker, finishing higher than 16th place, getting through a season with the same manager and maybe troubling some of the top teams during the course of it.

While the wankfest continues ahead of the Wagner revolution season, lets hope this guy does turn out to be the real deal, at this moment in time i am firmly sat on the fence.

The Championship is a very competitive league now and in order to just compete, you need to spend money on better players than we have historically attracted, try to retain them and pay them the required bunce. I am not telling people anything they don't already know, but i seriously have to question how many of the players currently in the squad have this required quality.

If we look at yesterdays squad:

Steer: We definitely let a better keeper go
Davidson: Think the majority will agree he is a mile off
Hudson: Not good enough, start him in his coaching role as of 8th may.
Lynch: Looking forward to seeing him with another solid centre half
Dempsey: may potetially be good enough, not really seen enough to form too much of an opinion
Whitehead: End of the road
Huws: Wigan bound, started well,but not been overly impressed
Lolley: Again, potential to be top class,need to be less predictable and work on his game over the summer.
Bunn: Fits and starts, can't become reliant on which Bunn turns up
Van La Parra: Good summer and i am excited from what i have seen lately.
Wells: Shown the reason we paid the money we did. 18 goals in a team that has rarely played to his strengths is a great achievment. Will have sparked some interest from other clubs looking for a thieve. I will stand The Drop of York if he isn't this years player of the season.

Hogg: I would keep Hogg, grafter who is good enough for the championship
Matmour: I will wait until next season before making a cast iron decision on him, but as yet not really impressed
Patterson: Like this lad, think he definitely has the quality i in his locker, hope we sign him.
Crainie: Squad player at best
Scannell: Frustrating as fuck. Good player on his day, but too much like Bunn to be relied on regular.
Smith: Don't actually mind Smith. Unless we sign a fantastic right back, he would be first choice next year.

Based on that team, you would say we need around 6-7 fresh, quality individuals in next season. 2 of which we already have. 2 in each department plus maybe a new keeper.

While i have seen some flashes of what Wagner is looking for, they have been all too infrequent to get too much of a boner about.

League table wise, we are no further forward than we were when DW took over and we can't finish any higher and certainly with any greater points than last season.

Is DW the man to take us forward? I hope so, but i am firmly on the fence and will be regardless of who we sign until half a dozen games into Next season.

Your last line is correct and yes we do need at least three more players of quality in what will be a more difficult division than this season and yes the jury is still out on bunn , lolley because they still cant pick a pass. Matmour is the most intelligent player ie he finds space the problem is we have too many who dont get there heads up and look. Wagner has done areal job but he needs more quality to sucseed. it shoud be interesting

[Deleted]

May 1, 2016 11:49:36 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Use of the word "wankfest" a bit shoddy .. but some good points raised imo

Just can't help yourself, can you? Always have to pass judgement.

[Deleted]

May 1, 2016 14:23:08 GMT 1 @adenuff said:

May 1, 2016 11:49:36 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Use of the word "wankfest" a bit shoddy .. but some good points raised imo

Just can't help yourself, can you? Always have to pass judgement.

Good judgement there by Ted! Poor criticism of it!

[terrierpark]

There has been some better football with a genera feeling that even better things to come.

But feelings alone cannot be the measure. The squad is thinner than that cheap sandwich ham and the results show that despite improved performances we are an also ran.

Physically we are fitter but remain lightweight, there again we have no option to field the lightweights like lolly patto even wells because they are our better players but when they are all on together your attack has no physicality to it hence why i think we struggle at corners.

I dont think we can survive losing any more quality however and you could say that progress would be for once holding on to our better players whilst simultaneously strengthening other areas.
I think we have the manager (despite his liking to start bunn and hudson ) progress now is down to the actions of DH and then hoping everything comes together.

Far far too early to have labelled the wagner thing a revolution hence why i think op used the wankfest comment. Mind you half the pratts on here are dickless anyway

[Alfie]

We are not progressing at all

[wtd]

May 1, 2016 16:12:28 GMT 1 Alfie said:

We are not progressing at all

So all the plaudits and all the praise we get from opposing fans and various managers, journalists etc means we are not actually progressing in any way shape or form? OK.

[Tanzanian Terrier]

May 1, 2016 16:12:28 GMT 1 Alfie said:

We are not progressing at all

Technically we are actually Gegenpressing

[Alfie]

May 1, 2016 16:22:14 GMT 1 wtd said:

May 1, 2016 16:12:28 GMT 1 Alfie said:

We are not progressing at all

So all the plaudits and all the praise we get from opposing fans and various managers, journalists etc means we are not actually progressing in any way shape or form? OK.

We're still lower table in the same league

[wtd]

May 1, 2016 16:29:49 GMT 1 Alfie said:

May 1, 2016 16:22:14 GMT 1 wtd said:

So all the plaudits and all the praise we get from opposing fans and various managers, journalists etc means we are not actually progressing in any way shape or form? OK.

We're still lower table in the same league

Is that the limits of your understanding?

[Alfie]

May 1, 2016 16:39:20 GMT 1 wtd said:

May 1, 2016 16:29:49 GMT 1 Alfie said:

We're still lower table in the same league

Is that the limits of your understanding?

It's a fact isn't it?

[Christ in Shades (art)]

May 1, 2016 16:22:14 GMT 1 wtd said:

May 1, 2016 16:12:28 GMT 1 Alfie said:

We are not progressing at all

So all the plaudits and all the praise we get from opposing fans and various managers, journalists etc means we are not actually progressing in any way shape or form? OK.

Its of no comfort to me that opposition fans/managers patronizingly ruffle our hair and say well done, you played well but.....you still lost. Think that is the main issue with us at the minute, its a lot better but the results don't back it up, until we get results in a consistent basis then we'll all remain frustrated.