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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 22:57:57 GMT 1
New manager, new ideas and philosophy, fresh budget and a new charge for promotion. Exactly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 23:06:03 GMT 1
And you think that’ll be acceptable to Dean Hoyle? What’s this modest squad you talk of? Modest PREMIER LEAGUE SQUAD- maybe. That’s doesn’t nit equate to a modest championship squad. You do realise the guy is one of the most successful self made businessman in the UK? He’s not the sort of guy who’s going to accept some pathetic mid table mediocrity. Haven’t you learnt anything from the last 10 years of his stewardship? Too many football fans have not woken up to the realities of how football works today. Look at Aston Villa. Relegated with a squad 10 times better than ours and can't even get a sniff of the play offs. Some people need to curb their expectations for next season. For me I'm just happy to be able to compete on a more even playing field again Villa went down with a terrible squad. Who did they go down with who’s still playing now? They’d had financial issues, fans unrest, want away owners, takeovers etc. The whole club was toxic and decayed from top to bottom. It was always going to be a massive rebuilding job. They then threw silly money on average players. There’s very little similarities to the clubs. Even if we go down we’re still a club on the up and in the second best position we’ve been in for 40 years. What happened with villa has no bearing on us.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 23:26:39 GMT 1
Well we’ll see if your doom mongering is borne out eh? Nice to be called lad again though..oil of Olay is one of my secrets. The worst thing (by far) of this season has been the attitude of the fans for me. Maybe it’s changed, maybe it hasn’t (I think it has) but all season it’s been there on the board- perhaps not from you I don’t know but it’s been there all year- an underlying pessimism, sense of hopelessness, anger and resentment. Sure it’s exaggerated on a forum but it’s been prevalent at the ground too. I don’t understand it. There’s been no rationale for it- frustration yes but a lot of fans had given up after Cardiff home game. Now we’re going to be in a league below and people think we’ll be mid table. It just doesn’t stack up. Is it that most wondorous of philosophies: “prepare for the worst then you won’t be disappointed?” Who knows, but it sure makes a great hobby start to get very tiresome imo. If we’re top 6 all season will you come on and admit it was grossly and inexplicably pessimistic prediction? Similarly if we languish in mid table I’ll do the same. You say we will have a squad as good as stoke or swansea I say we will finish mid table Stoke and swansea are mid table But you are a genius and i am negative ..interesting Who’s rattled your cage? Is it because you don’t like me lumping you in with the doom mongers? Look, joking aside, if that’s not you then I genuinely apologise. I don’t like or understand pessimism and HTFC is an emotive subject in emotive times. Those teams I mentioned have multi million pound squads. Last time we were in the championship we probably didn’t even have the 10th best squad and we were the 3rd best team(finished 5th by choice). Next season assuming we’re in the championship we will have a squad as powerful as any of the wealthiest clubs- villa, boro and as good as last seasons relegated teams. That was my point. Do I think we’ll do better with our squad than they’ve done with theirs? 100% Rowett is an awful dour manager. Stoke squad is aged and poorly motivated. Swansea have no identify after endless managerial conveyor belt. Same for boro. Hopefully after the gloom of relegation lifts the atmosphere at the ground will be much better and unlike Villa or Swansea there aren’t any toxic issues within the club and the fans will be happy to see us playing well and winning games regularly in the championship with most of our premier league squad intact. Ok I appreciate you genuinely think we’ll be mid table...Doesn’t that make you incredibly depressed? Or do you desperately want town to do well so have low expectations in order to be pleasantly surprised(and not wounded if we fail) I know a lot of folk roll that way which is fair enough. Each to their own. Appreciate we’ve been toothless and shit of late but there’s a massive gulf in the divisions and we still (for now) have a premier league squad. I don’t think there’s a credible rationale for us finishing mid table 10th-15th in a division a good number of our players bossed 3 years ago. If anything that league is weaker than last time we were in it. Newcastle and Brighton and Fulham were really good outfits and Wednesday were very solid too with quality players. Not watched much of it this year but that leeds derby game was horrific in standard and they’re romping the division...with Kemar roofe aka Malvin kamara up front. High quality coach though- which we will have to I believe. For us to finish mid table the whole gargantuan effort of reaching and retaining our premier league status will have been for nothing...like it never even happened. The whole point of promotion to the greedy league was that we’d be a proper force in the championship, not having to punch above our weight to compete with the league’s big clubs. I see it far more likely that we’ll bounce back like Burnley did or at least have a very good go at it. Dean I suspect won’t accept anything less than a bonefide promotion drive.
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Post by hd2 on Jan 17, 2019 0:13:12 GMT 1
You say we will have a squad as good as stoke or swansea I say we will finish mid table Stoke and swansea are mid table But you are a genius and i am negative ..interesting Next season assuming we’re in the championship we will have a squad as powerful as any of the wealthiest clubs- villa, boro and as good as last seasons relegated teams. That was my point. Impossible statement to make when neither you or I have any idea who will leave, stay or be brought in. Not only for us but any other club too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 4:52:55 GMT 1
Next season assuming we’re in the championship we will have a squad as powerful as any of the wealthiest clubs- villa, boro and as good as last seasons relegated teams. That was my point. Impossible statement to make when neither you or I have any idea who will leave, stay or be brought in. Not only for us but any other club too. Well yes ofcourse I am making some big assumptions there- certainly if you take Mooy & Billing out of our midfield we’d be badly affected. I don’t, for the record think we will lose loads of players and we will replace them with decent players not shitters- we’ll have millions in sales especially if god forbid those two boys go. However, what I’m getting at is in terms of resources- we’ll be on a level playing field or actually in a stronger position squad strength and ability to compete wages. Do people think we don’t have a better squad than championship teams? Surely not. For example, there was no way we could match bankrolled Bournemouth’s preposterous £18m for a lad who’s played 5 games at this level, yet we signed Prichard ahead of any other championship teams. Others were in for AP or would’ve been given the chance. They could’ve even offered more wages than us-the big championship teams. We got him cos we were prem but my point is we might get outbid by premier league but after our 2 year stay we’re a good deal more abke to compete with the other big champions clubs next season. I probably could’ve said that in one sentence but it’s 4 am. We’ll be more than competitive next season. Hoyle will be looking to bounce right back.
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Post by jafa on Jan 20, 2019 7:13:28 GMT 1
Just watched the EFL Championship show on Quest. There were strikers that can strike. Wingers that can cross and midfielders that can both break forward fast into the box and shoot or cleverly create chances for others. All the things we can't do. We look awful compared to most of the top half of the championship (especially when Mooy's not playing). There are dozens and dozens of better quality players in that league than we have. Hopefully we'll offload in the summer and pick up some UK (or Northern European) quality players. Unfortunately, at the moment, with what we've got and Mooy gone we'll do we'll to be above the bottom third.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jan 20, 2019 9:34:07 GMT 1
Just watched the EFL Championship show on Quest. There were strikers that can strike. Wingers that can cross and midfielders that can both break forward fast into the box and shoot or cleverly create chances for others. All the things we can't do. We look awful compared to most of the top half of the championship (especially when Mooy's not playing). There are dozens and dozens of better quality players in that league than we have. Hopefully we'll offload in the summer and pick up some UK (or Northern European) quality players. Unfortunately, at the moment, with what we've got and Mooy gone we'll do we'll to be above the bottom third. Amen to that. I don't think you're far off there but it would be interesting to see what a more attack minded manager could get out of the current squad.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jan 20, 2019 9:38:09 GMT 1
Just watched the EFL Championship show on Quest. There were strikers that can strike. Yeah I’m sure they could all do that against De Gea 😂😂😂
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Post by dugnet on Jan 20, 2019 9:40:30 GMT 1
Just watched the EFL Championship show on Quest. There were strikers that can strike. Wingers that can cross and midfielders that can both break forward fast into the box and shoot or cleverly create chances for others. All the things we can't do. We look awful compared to most of the top half of the championship (especially when Mooy's not playing). There are dozens and dozens of better quality players in that league than we have. Hopefully we'll offload in the summer and pick up some UK (or Northern European) quality players. Unfortunately, at the moment, with what we've got and Mooy gone we'll do we'll to be above the bottom third. And the standard of players is considerably below that of what we compete against today. The championship is competitive and relentless but don't be suckered into thinking that it is of comparative quality, it is not. What we would do is entirely dependent on the players we retain and recruit ie far too early to say.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jan 20, 2019 9:40:47 GMT 1
Look at Aston Villa. Relegated with a squad 10 times better than ours and can't even get a sniff of the play offs. Some people need to curb their expectations for next season. For me I'm just happy to be able to compete on a more even playing field again Villa went down with a terrible squad. Who did they go down with who’s still playing now? They’d had financial issues, fans unrest, want away owners, takeovers etc. The whole club was toxic and decayed from top to bottom. It was always going to be a massive rebuilding job. They then threw silly money on average players. There’s very little similarities to the clubs. Even if we go down we’re still a club on the up and in the second best position we’ve been in for 40 years. What happened with villa has no bearing on us. I don't agree with that part of his post, but the sentiment resonates with me.
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Post by jafa on Jan 20, 2019 10:08:43 GMT 1
Just watched the EFL Championship show on Quest. There were strikers that can strike. Wingers that can cross and midfielders that can both break forward fast into the box and shoot or cleverly create chances for others. All the things we can't do. We look awful compared to most of the top half of the championship (especially when Mooy's not playing). There are dozens and dozens of better quality players in that league than we have. Hopefully we'll offload in the summer and pick up some UK (or Northern European) quality players. Unfortunately, at the moment, with what we've got and Mooy gone we'll do we'll to be above the bottom third. And the standard of players is considerably below that of what we compete against today. The championship is competitive and relentless but don't be suckered into thinking that it is of comparative quality, it is not. What we would do is entirely dependent on the players we retain and recruit ie far too early to say. Nice thoughts. We've played two teams from the championship this year and been f*cked over by both? Luck? I don't think so. The unpleasant truth is that most of the top six championship clubs would have more points on the board than we have had they been in the Premiership this year... and with the players we have we will struggle next year.
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Post by htfcsince70 on Jan 20, 2019 10:30:12 GMT 1
I would just be happy for us to be considered a genuine contender for top six - a 'big dog' rather than being the 'little dog' that we appear to have been tagged with for quite some time, even before the last two seasons!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 10:54:07 GMT 1
Just watched the EFL Championship show on Quest. There were strikers that can strike. Wingers that can cross and midfielders that can both break forward fast into the box and shoot or cleverly create chances for others. All the things we can't do. We look awful compared to most of the top half of the championship (especially when Mooy's not playing). There are dozens and dozens of better quality players in that league than we have. Hopefully we'll offload in the summer and pick up some UK (or Northern European) quality players. Unfortunately, at the moment, with what we've got and Mooy gone we'll do we'll to be above the bottom third. Is this your first season watching football? Genuine question, not having a dig. How many goals did Tammy Abraham get for a relegated Prem side? 5 in 31 The season before he scored 23 in 41 for an upper mid table championship side Bristol City The season after he’s scored 17 in 22 for Villa in the top 8/10. That will give you a better understanding of the difference between the 2 divisions. It’s a vast difference. Fulham? Swept all aside last year in a devastating campaign. This year? Spent £100 million on new players and wages & they’ve been... utterly hopeless. Inept. Only surpassed by our inexplicable shitness. If you think there’s little between the leagues or even more crazily that the the championship is better than bottom of the prem then we’ll yiu are totally clueless in your understanding of the british game, that’s as politely as I can put it.
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Post by jafa on Jan 20, 2019 11:03:55 GMT 1
Oddly enough we're been knocked out of all cup competitions this season by these mid table, useless championship sides. Results my friend speak louder than the shite you spout.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jan 20, 2019 21:06:40 GMT 1
Just watched the EFL Championship show on Quest. There were strikers that can strike. Wingers that can cross and midfielders that can both break forward fast into the box and shoot or cleverly create chances for others. All the things we can't do. We look awful compared to most of the top half of the championship (especially when Mooy's not playing). There are dozens and dozens of better quality players in that league than we have. Hopefully we'll offload in the summer and pick up some UK (or Northern European) quality players. Unfortunately, at the moment, with what we've got and Mooy gone we'll do we'll to be above the bottom third. Is this your first season watching football? Genuine question, not having a dig. How many goals did Tammy Abraham get for a relegated Prem side? 5 in 31 The season before he scored 23 in 41 for an upper mid table championship side Bristol City The season after he’s scored 17 in 22 for Villa in the top 8/10. That will give you a better understanding of the difference between the 2 divisions. It’s a vast difference. Fulham? Swept all aside last year in a devastating campaign. This year? Spent £100 million on new players and wages & they’ve been... utterly hopeless. Inept. Only surpassed by our inexplicable shitness. If you think there’s little between the leagues or even more crazily that the the championship is better than bottom of the prem then we’ll yiu are totally clueless in your understanding of the british game, that’s as politely as I can put it. Fulham devastating? They won just over half their games...the same number as us when we finished 6th or minus goal difference. They had a good run after Chrimbo. The problem is that like us they signed shite. The top of the Champs more than matches the bottom of the Prem.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jan 21, 2019 6:35:33 GMT 1
Next years expectations? We now ahve just 42 goals in our last 68 competitive matches. We even failed to score v two Championship sides in the cups. This has to be a record low post-war of any professional team. So, 2019/20....46 matches...30 goals.
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Post by rayveallrules on Jan 21, 2019 8:48:48 GMT 1
Anyone who thinks that we will be in with a shout in the Championship with the current squad minus Mooy,Billing and Kongolo,needs to have a re-think.If the likes of Flo,Smith,Bacuna,Puncheon and Diabenza are to be the nucleus of the side,then I'm afraid we're in the poo. I'm aware that it's a one off but I was in Middlesborough on the weekend for my grandson's 21st and went along to watch Millwall,who I think are just outside the bottom 6 take the home team apart only to concede in the last minute.They moved the ball around with pace and accuracy and attacked in numbers and would have beaten the team we put out on Sunday.Admittedly,Boro' were abysmal and even though their fans rated Rajiv,I thought that it was a typical display-skins his man two or three times and then a wayward pass or cross.Still,at 5% of the cost of Diabenza he's value.If Murray Wallace plays regularly like he did on the weekend,I'd have him back and make him skipper. If Puncheon,who I wasn't aware was playing,until his pinpoint pass for City's third and Bacuna who,invariably looks as if he's running in treacle,are to be Billing and Mooy's replacements,someone needs to be on the phone to Bradford and telling them that Payne and O'Brien are not for sale.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Jan 21, 2019 9:13:12 GMT 1
Diabenza. Like that.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jan 21, 2019 9:26:46 GMT 1
Anyone who thinks that we will be in with a shout in the Championship with the current squad minus Mooy,Billing and Kongolo,needs to have a re-think.If the likes of Flo,Smith,Bacuna,Puncheon and Diabenza are to be the nucleus of the side,then I'm afraid we're in the poo. I'm aware that it's a one off but I was in Middlesborough on the weekend for my grandson's 21st and went along to watch Millwall,who I think are just outside the bottom 6 take the home team apart only to concede in the last minute.They moved the ball around with pace and accuracy and attacked in numbers and would have beaten the team we put out on Sunday.Admittedly,Boro' were abysmal and even though their fans rated Rajiv,I thought that it was a typical display-skins his man two or three times and then a wayward pass or cross.Still,at 5% of the cost of Diabenza he's value.If Murray Wallace plays regularly like he did on the weekend,I'd have him back and make him skipper. If Puncheon,who I wasn't aware was playing,until his pinpoint pass for City's third and Bacuna who,invariably looks as if he's running in treacle,are to be Billing and Mooy's replacements,someone needs to be on the phone to Bradford and telling them that Payne and O'Brien are not for sale. If we lose those three, and I expect it will be at least two of em, that will be even more funds for decent replacements. You can't make a judgement on what will happen next season now, and it's odd factoring in us losing our best three players and getting no replacements in. PS - when giving Bacuna credit for his performance against Newcastle, I did see and mention his languid running style. That has stood out more than the positives since and appears a genuine issue, unlike for Billing where it's more perception.
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Post by Mastercracker on Jan 21, 2019 10:32:50 GMT 1
Bacuna needs to play a full season of football. He's not ready for the premier league but he does have a decent touch and passing range, he's just positionally a bit ropey and his decision making is similar. This is the problem with the premier league though, a team such as us can't blood youngsters properly. Its much easier in a winning side, but in a losing side the pressure is too much and his head drops when he's done something wrong. But we don't have wage budget to fill our squad with seasoned pro's of premier league standard, so its catch 22.
Folk on here are waaay too early in writing people off though. He's 21 and playing in probably the hardest league in the world. At the same age:
Lossl - Playing for FC Midtjylland in the Danish League Smith - Made his debut in the championship Hogg - On loan at Darlington in L2 Mooy - Struggling to get a game at St. Mirren Lowe - Playing for Chemnitzer FC in the Regionalliga Nord Zanka - Bit part player at FC Copenhagen Schindler - Bundesliga 2 Puncheon - Playng for Barnet in L2
Its great that O'Brien is doing well at Bradford, but it's daft to think that Bacuna wouldnt be capable of the same or better if you dropped him 2 levels.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 10:49:47 GMT 1
top 6 finish in the Championship minimum
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Post by Town Duppy on Jan 21, 2019 10:52:52 GMT 1
Great.
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Post by royrace on Jan 21, 2019 10:59:17 GMT 1
I expect us to be pushing for the play offs but that is IF the new manager is decent and IF we get the transfer business right both in and out. We have the basis of a decent squad and we'll have the type of budget we could only dream of in the past. If its spent wisely we ought to be up there, dont forget our man will have been in charge almost half a season which should be a huge help and the reason Dean correctly decided to let Wagner go early.
As important as incomings will be outgoings, keeping the players we need, getting rid of the ones we don't even if it means taking a big hit.
If we arent good in any of those areas we could be looking at having a season like Swansea or Stoke or worse.
If we can keep Mooy I think he'd almost guarantee a top half finish, he's that good.
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Post by Mastercracker on Jan 21, 2019 11:12:12 GMT 1
I expect us to be pushing for the play offs but that is IF the new manager is decent and IF we get the transfer business right both in and out. We have the basis of a decent squad and we'll have the type of budget we could only dream of in the past. If its spent wisely we ought to be up there, dont forget our man will have been in charge almost half a season which should be a huge help and the reason Dean correctly decided to let Wagner go early. As important as incomings will be outgoings, keeping the players we need, getting rid of the ones we don't even if it means taking a big hit. If we arent good in any of those areas we could be looking at having a season like Swansea or Stoke or worse. If we can keep Mooy I think he'd almost guarantee a top half finish, he's that good. Mooy would almost guarantee a playoff finish at least for me. He guarantees that we'd control 90% of games. Just dont see him staying sadly.
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Post by sudbury on Jan 21, 2019 12:10:00 GMT 1
jafa is right. There are dozens of quality players in the Championship who are better than ours.
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Post by cookroyal on Jan 21, 2019 13:03:12 GMT 1
Sorry to see looks like you guys are going down this year.
Have to say from an outside point of view, think you guys will really struggle next year. The quality in the league now is much better than it was and it is all about scoring goals and attacking freely. Just look at the size of the clubs that have struggled, Sunderland, Villa and Stoke.
Could be a long season for you, much like ours this year:)
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Post by Mastercracker on Jan 21, 2019 13:12:22 GMT 1
Sorry to see looks like you guys are going down this year. Have to say from an outside point of view, think you guys will really struggle next year. The quality in the league now is much better than it was and it is all about scoring goals and attacking freely. Just look at the size of the clubs that have struggled, Sunderland, Villa and Stoke. Could be a long season for you, much like ours this year:)
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jan 21, 2019 13:25:38 GMT 1
Sorry to see looks like you guys are going down this year. Have to say from an outside point of view, think you guys will really struggle next year. The quality in the league now is much better than it was and it is all about scoring goals and attacking freely. Just look at the size of the clubs that have struggled, Sunderland, Villa and Stoke. Could be a long season for you, much like ours this year:) The quality is better this year than the last few seasons? No chance. Newcastle had the highest ever wage budget, Brighton had been building for afew seasons aswell, last season Wolves & Fulham had a huge budget to get them into the premier league. This season the top 6 have a far lower budget than the 4 teams I've just mentioned. Norwich, Derby, Villa, Wednesday & 'Boro had to trim their wage bill from previous seasons, Sheff U are working miracles on a shoe string. At this stage last season top of the table had 8 more points & the season before 7 more points. This season the championship is more competitive because the teams in the top half are far more evenly matched but in no way is the championship stronger this season.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 19:09:42 GMT 1
My expectations are pretty realistic, some may say low. I think top 10 of the Championship would be an achievement next season.
New manager and probably a significant shake up of the playing staff, so it’s difficult to predict. If it all falls into place we could storm the division but no guarantees that will happen.
This of course assumes we do not benefit from a minor miracle and survive somehow.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 19:44:01 GMT 1
Mid table next season Then play offs the season after Then a return to the promised land the following year....
But with goals and plenty of them every year!
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