bigtruck
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Posts: 1,771
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Post by bigtruck on Apr 25, 2019 13:18:23 GMT 1
Never, EVER as a keeper pass out centrally. Lossl again is the root of the goal. So slack. Absolute bollocks Oti. You’ve never done a day’s coaching in your life. That’s the whole point of having CBs pull to the edge of areas to create space in the middle. It was Hoggs mistake no doubt. Poor control and awareness but don’t just make shit up to hear your own voice.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 25, 2019 16:04:00 GMT 1
I have some (limited) insight in to this and modern coaching. I dont agree with it in this case. This approach will also be debunked with time. I know Lossl has given 4-5 goals away by kicking centrally. Those goals are worth over a million pounds each. They need not have happened. The goalie is for stopping goals. The only exception is his distribution on quick breakways when the opposition are out of position. A man facing his own goal recieving a ball from the keeper is blind to whats behind him. Lose it there and he is in big trouble. Next you will be advocating passing around on the six yard line. A simple coaching example...i would always take short corners....always. When the ball is dead one must take the most productive option. One goal is scored directly from every 39th corner. Thats an average of less than 5 goals per season per team. Why cross then? Maths, angles and errors. Thats the future of the modern game.Change is not necessarily progress. Not sure something can be debunked when it's worked and helped deliver trophies for the last decade. Football will evolve again at some point it always does, but you can't debunk something that's worked in the past, it's just an evolution. Everything else you've written is pretty much word for word what Charles Hughes said was the future of the game in the early 70's. Apart from crossing, he was big on that providing you had a target man. As an aside, Man City killed off Man Utd with the 2nd goal which started with passing in and around their own penalty box last night - not that I'd advocate my team doing that with any regularity I would add.
I get you. Yep, of course i read Charles Hughes Soccer Skills as a kid. Just re-read "the Numbers Game"...early statisticians were only seeing part of the picture and were all part of the "gerrit fo'rrad" brigade. The game continually evolves.
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Hogg
Apr 25, 2019 16:07:46 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 25, 2019 16:07:46 GMT 1
Never, EVER as a keeper pass out centrally. Lossl again is the root of the goal. So slack. Absolute bollocks Oti. You’ve never done a day’s coaching in your life. That’s the whole point of having CBs pull to the edge of areas to create space in the middle. It was Hoggs mistake no doubt. Poor control and awareness but don’t just make shit up to hear your own voice. I have done some coaching...only kids and women mind. Centre-backs go wide when the goalie has is for several reasons....not least is they wont screw up as readily if they get it wide! A central midfielder dropping deep to get it from the keeper centrally is a relatively new phenomenon. Less of a problem when the game is dead. Big problem when the keeper does it whilst the oppos are on a high press or still up from an attack....a la Hogg.
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bigtruck
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:0][N4:#bigtrucktone#]
Posts: 1,771
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Post by bigtruck on Apr 25, 2019 16:41:23 GMT 1
Absolute bollocks Oti. You’ve never done a day’s coaching in your life. That’s the whole point of having CBs pull to the edge of areas to create space in the middle. It was Hoggs mistake no doubt. Poor control and awareness but don’t just make shit up to hear your own voice. I have done some coaching...only kids and women mind. Centre-backs go wide when the goalie has is for several reasons....not least is they wont screw up as readily if they get it wide! A central midfielder dropping deep to get it from the keeper centrally is a relatively new phenomenon. Less of a problem when the game is dead. Big problem when the keeper does it whilst the oppos are on a high press or still up from an attack....a la Hogg. 2 sentences in that tripe gave me all the info I needed to convince me that you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about. But as always instead of admitting you’re wrong you just keep digging deeper and deeper. Keep digging mate and you’ll be able to say hi to my cousin in Melbourne before long.
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Hogg
Apr 25, 2019 16:44:03 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 25, 2019 16:44:03 GMT 1
I have done some coaching...only kids and women mind. Centre-backs go wide when the goalie has is for several reasons....not least is they wont screw up as readily if they get it wide! A central midfielder dropping deep to get it from the keeper centrally is a relatively new phenomenon. Less of a problem when the game is dead. Big problem when the keeper does it whilst the oppos are on a high press or still up from an attack....a la Hogg. 2 sentences in that tripe gave me all the info I needed to convince me that you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about. But as always instead of admitting you’re wrong you just keep digging deeper and deeper. Keep digging mate and you’ll be able to say hi to my cousin in Melbourne before long. You go against everything i post anyway...big trucking deal. Done more inside my wardrobe than you have ever imagined.....get on with it.
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bigtruck
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:0][N4:#bigtrucktone#]
Posts: 1,771
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Hogg
Apr 25, 2019 16:52:13 GMT 1
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Post by bigtruck on Apr 25, 2019 16:52:13 GMT 1
2 sentences in that tripe gave me all the info I needed to convince me that you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about. But as always instead of admitting you’re wrong you just keep digging deeper and deeper. Keep digging mate and you’ll be able to say hi to my cousin in Melbourne before long. You go against everything i post anyway...big trucking deal. Done more inside my wardrobe than you have ever imagined.....get on with it. Not everything. Just the nonsense parts. Which just happens to be everything but that’s purely coincidental. And why are you inside your wardrobe? That’s just weird.
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Post by town1907 on Apr 25, 2019 18:35:03 GMT 1
You go against everything i post anyway...big trucking deal. Done more inside my wardrobe than you have ever imagined.....get on with it. Not everything. Just the nonsense parts. Which just happens to be everything but that’s purely coincidental. And why are you inside your wardrobe? That’s just weird. Narnia?
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Hogg
Apr 25, 2019 20:45:12 GMT 1
Post by ritchie on Apr 25, 2019 20:45:12 GMT 1
Not everything. Just the nonsense parts. Which just happens to be everything but that’s purely coincidental. And why are you inside your wardrobe? That’s just weird. Narnia? wanking
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Post by royrace on Apr 25, 2019 20:58:35 GMT 1
Within 25 seconds Ederson passed to Fernandhino who was under more pressure than Hogg and facing his goal. It never looked a risk. The only argument Lossl was at fault at all was whether he should have thought Hogg isn't Fernandhino and was more likely to make a balls up of something you wouldn't expect at this level. The ball from lossl looked a brave one to me at the time but was well executed, it’s exactly the type of football encouraged by Wagner, he always encouraged them to be brave in possession and it’s what brought the team success. I haven’t seen any of that though for a long time and I think it took Hogg by surprise, it’s a while since this team has looked brave and comfortable in possession and it never has since Siewert arrived. Not excusing Hogg from blame but I don’t think that mistake happens if the team is well drilled and on song as it used to be. A lot of individuals are suffering form wise because the team is struggling, the two things go hand in hand.
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Post by space hardware on Apr 25, 2019 21:10:11 GMT 1
Within 25 seconds Ederson passed to Fernandhino who was under more pressure than Hogg and facing his goal. It never looked a risk. The only argument Lossl was at fault at all was whether he should have thought Hogg isn't Fernandhino and was more likely to make a balls up of something you wouldn't expect at this level. The ball from lossl looked a brave one to me at the time but was well executed, it’s exactly the type of football encouraged by Wagner, he always encouraged them to be brave in possession and it’s what brought the team success. I haven’t seen any of that though for a long time and I think it took Hogg by surprise, it’s a while since this team has looked brave and comfortable in possession and it never has since Siewert arrived. Not excusing Hogg from blame but I don’t think that mistake happens if the team is well drilled and on song as it used to be. A lot of individuals are suffering form wise because the team is struggling, the two things go hand in hand. There was nothing wrong with the pass, he pinged it straight onto Hogg's toe. If he'd played the pass properly, as he should have done, then the three or four Watford players in their press would have been immediately bypassed.
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Hogg
Apr 25, 2019 21:54:52 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 25, 2019 21:54:52 GMT 1
The ball from lossl looked a brave one to me at the time but was well executed, it’s exactly the type of football encouraged by Wagner, he always encouraged them to be brave in possession and it’s what brought the team success. I haven’t seen any of that though for a long time and I think it took Hogg by surprise, it’s a while since this team has looked brave and comfortable in possession and it never has since Siewert arrived. Not excusing Hogg from blame but I don’t think that mistake happens if the team is well drilled and on song as it used to be. A lot of individuals are suffering form wise because the team is struggling, the two things go hand in hand. There was nothing wrong with the pass, he pinged it straight onto Hogg's toe. If he'd played the pass properly, as he should have done, then the three or four Watford players in their press would have been immediately bypassed. I could be wrong, but that's maybe how Newcastle scored at our place.
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Hogg
Apr 25, 2019 22:01:24 GMT 1
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Post by space hardware on Apr 25, 2019 22:01:24 GMT 1
There was nothing wrong with the pass, he pinged it straight onto Hogg's toe. If he'd played the pass properly, as he should have done, then the three or four Watford players in their press would have been immediately bypassed. I could be wrong, but that maybe how Newcastle scored at our place. I never watch the game after we've lost but I seem to recall us pressing in their half and being totally cut open down our left hand side.
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 25, 2019 23:39:50 GMT 1
I could be wrong, but that maybe how Newcastle scored at our place. I never watch the game after we've lost but I seem to recall us pressing in their half and being totally cut open down our left hand side. Yeah it was very different from memory. Think it was Kongolo who lost the ball for that one and then they pieced together the only decent bit of football they managed in the game to tear down our left side and cross for Rondon to score- pretty much the only thing he did all game.
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Deleted
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 2:20:02 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 2:20:02 GMT 1
Absolute bollocks Oti. You’ve never done a day’s coaching in your life. That’s the whole point of having CBs pull to the edge of areas to create space in the middle. It was Hoggs mistake no doubt. Poor control and awareness but don’t just make shit up to hear your own voice. I have done some coaching...only kids and women mind. Centre-backs go wide when the goalie has is for several reasons....not least is they wont screw up as readily if they get it wide! A central midfielder dropping deep to get it from the keeper centrally is a relatively new phenomenon. Less of a problem when the game is dead. Big problem when the keeper does it whilst the oppos are on a high press or still up from an attack....a la Hogg. “The game continually evolves”.
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 7:20:41 GMT 1
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 26, 2019 7:20:41 GMT 1
" Only kids and women "
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Apr 26, 2019 7:33:43 GMT 1
It's always a disaster wiaitng to happen having Hogg as quarterback
He's improved massively on the ball since he joined but at the pace Premier League players close you down, his speed of thought and awareness isn't quite where it needs to be. On the plus side, we've only 3 more games before he's back in the Championship and one of the better midfielders in the division
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Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 26, 2019 7:34:11 GMT 1
I never watch the game after we've lost but I seem to recall us pressing in their half and being totally cut open down our left hand side. Yeah it was very different from memory. Think it was Kongolo who lost the ball for that one and then they pieced together the only decent bit of football they managed in the game to tear down our left side and cross for Rondon to score- pretty much the only thing he did all game. A few of em, including Billing pressed them high, although I can't recall what happened prior.
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Post by htfcsince70 on Apr 26, 2019 9:03:22 GMT 1
If the article on Hogg in the Yorkshire post is anything to go by he sounds as though he plans to be here next season - I also like his comments about those not wanting to be here ship them out quick! For all his limitations no one can argue about his desire, aggression and always wanting to win.
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Deleted
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 14:26:44 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 14:26:44 GMT 1
If the article on Hogg in the Yorkshire post is anything to go by he sounds as though he plans to be here next season - I also like his comments about those not wanting to be here ship them out quick! For all his limitations no one can argue about his desire, aggression and always wanting to win. only those who don't understand. Hogg is a very good pro in all aspects and a real team player.
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 15:32:34 GMT 1
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on Apr 26, 2019 15:32:34 GMT 1
Re: his comments in the Yorkshire post. He's right about needing players to move on quickly for the benefit of the squad. But does he really need to come out with this in public? All it's going to do is drive down the prices of players.
First the thing with Diakhaby, then players stating their desire to leave, then a senior player who's staying saying that getting them out takes priority, rather than getting a fair price.
The club should have players properly briefed on what they do and don't say to the press, and has been useless in this aspect this season. We could've been seeing huge figures for some players this summer, but they're now going to be sold for well under that for partly avoidable reasons
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 16:04:31 GMT 1
Post by htfcsince70 on Apr 26, 2019 16:04:31 GMT 1
Re: his comments in the Yorkshire post. He's right about needing players to move on quickly for the benefit of the squad. But does he really need to come out with this in public? All it's going to do is drive down the prices of players. First the thing with Diakhaby, then players stating their desire to leave, then a senior player who's staying saying that getting them out takes priority, rather than getting a fair price. The club should have players properly briefed on what they do and don't say to the press, and has been useless in this aspect this season. We could've been seeing huge figures for some players this summer, but they're now going to be sold for well under that for partly avoidable reasons I'm not sure that it will make the slightest bit of difference - unless all agents read the Yorkshire Post - added to the fact that I believe Paul Merson to be correct when he was asked about Town players moving on he replied, "They'd better have good agents!". I really don't think that we will get great fees for some of those going regardless of who said what - they are simply not good enough and the demand for them from other clubs will be limited in my opinion. Which club would even consider giving us our money back for a striker who can't score? Go back two years and even we wouldn't be considering buying the players that we have on our current payroll!! Imagine the outcry on here if we were in for Mounie or Diakahby or Mbenza after the season that they have jut had!
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 20:02:35 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 26, 2019 20:02:35 GMT 1
Maybe Oti was right 🤭
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 20:13:46 GMT 1
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Post by Floyds on Apr 26, 2019 20:13:46 GMT 1
To be fair, conceding goals where literally give them the ball on the edge of our area really is the last thing we need to be doing.
Don’t see any upside in the tactic, it’s not like we’ll keep the ball and create anything further up the pitch.
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Deleted
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 22:30:14 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 22:30:14 GMT 1
That role is exactly the one that Wagner played him in back when we were good. At keeper possession, centre half’s would split wide, full backs push up to the half way line and Hogg would drop deep for the short receive. I’d rather see him there than Stankovic to be honest, whose got nowhere near the movement and possibly even less technical ability and passing range. Must watch a different Stankovic to me if you see one with less technical ability and passing range than Hoggy 🤔 I guess I must 🤷♂️
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 26, 2019 23:38:44 GMT 1
I thought Stankovic was technically far better than Hogg? I bet Hoggs never played as badly as Stankovic did tonight with and without the ball in his entire career. That was one of the poorest defensive midfield performances ive ever seen, not just the cock up for the first, but just about everything he did after that too. Miles off the pace of the game, not tracking anyone and constantly giving the ball away.
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 23:42:00 GMT 1
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Post by dugnet on Apr 26, 2019 23:42:00 GMT 1
Whatever Hoggs' limitations he cares.
Stankovic is a centre half who can pass the ball.
Overall these two aren't our biggest problem at the moment.
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 23:44:06 GMT 1
Post by turbo2 on Apr 26, 2019 23:44:06 GMT 1
he was spot on. yet again silly lossl putting someone under massive pressure against a quick forward line. when will he learn? ?
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 23:45:58 GMT 1
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Post by teddytheterrier on Apr 26, 2019 23:45:58 GMT 1
Again stankovic being played out of position. Jam makes him play there. He isn't a defensive midfielder.
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Hogg
Apr 26, 2019 23:48:20 GMT 1
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Post by Giggity on Apr 26, 2019 23:48:20 GMT 1
Hogg is not a Premier League pivot player. Siewert (for all his faults) does not trust Hogg there and I think it is only right we look for a new DM for the new season.
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 27, 2019 0:13:03 GMT 1
Hogg is not a Premier League pivot player. Siewert (for all his faults) does not trust Hogg there and I think it is only right we look for a new DM for the new season. Were not in the premier league in the new season. Whether hes good enough for that role in the prem is one thing ( IMO hes been one of our best players since we went up ) but in the championship he is very much good enough and will be key to any chance we have.
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