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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Sept 6, 2019 13:00:11 GMT 1
One win I repeat One win in all of 2019 !
Identify is last concern !
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Post by terriersyndrome on Sept 6, 2019 13:08:57 GMT 1
What ever the identity was it was lost a long time ago. 4 wins in the last 57 league & cup games spanning back to the 3rd March 2018. We've been absolutely shite for 18 months now barring the odd performance. No way can the next manager do any worse than that. Identity? That's just a buzz word, we need action, starting against Sheff W.
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 6, 2019 13:20:02 GMT 1
Been ruminating whilst on hols.. Its my belief that the biggest cause of our current predicament is allowing wagner to leave when he did.. His methods.. Training schedules.. Work ethic.. Terrier spirit.. Were the rock that our promotion and 1st successful premier lg season were built on.. The appointment of hudson and whitehead as youth team coaches working alongside him was ideal.. Let them watch and learn his methods at first hand.. Then at some time in the future hudson could take over and carry on the good work.. We all know now that wagner changed his playing system because he knew diakabhy/mbenza/sobhi wernt good enough.. Our relegation became almost inevitable by xmas last year.. However the club should have kept faith in the wagner model.. Insisted he stayed on to end of season or put hudson/whitehead in charge to end of season.. Whilst we were going down anyway i believe its the appointment of sievert that really fooooked us up.. He came in like a wrecking ball.. Pissed off half the team.. Ruined the team spirit.. Changed training methods.. And seemingly got everything wrong.. The club abandoned the ideas and principles that brought it its greatest success in 40+ years.. I still believe hudson should get the managers job.. Hes had a tough start but can turn it around given time.. To appoint cowley/bowyer/adkins or whoever would be a further abandonment of the wagner revolution.. Our relegation was inevitable at some point but dont abandon the principles that got us there.. Rant over.. š¤ What makes you think that the club didn't try everything they could to convince Wagner to stay, but it was his decision and he'd made his mind up to leave? You know like erm.. it was reported. |
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on Sept 6, 2019 13:34:52 GMT 1
Been ruminating whilst on hols.. Its my belief that the biggest cause of our current predicament is allowing wagner to leave when he did.. His methods.. Training schedules.. Work ethic.. Terrier spirit.. Were the rock that our promotion and 1st successful premier lg season were built on.. The appointment of hudson and whitehead as youth team coaches working alongside him was ideal.. Let them watch and learn his methods at first hand.. Then at some time in the future hudson could take over and carry on the good work.. We all know now that wagner changed his playing system because he knew diakabhy/mbenza/sobhi wernt good enough.. Our relegation became almost inevitable by xmas last year.. However the club should have kept faith in the wagner model.. Insisted he stayed on to end of season or put hudson/whitehead in charge to end of season.. Whilst we were going down anyway i believe its the appointment of sievert that really fooooked us up.. He came in like a wrecking ball.. Pissed off half the team.. Ruined the team spirit.. Changed training methods.. And seemingly got everything wrong.. The club abandoned the ideas and principles that brought it its greatest success in 40+ years.. I still believe hudson should get the managers job.. Hes had a tough start but can turn it around given time.. To appoint cowley/bowyer/adkins or whoever would be a further abandonment of the wagner revolution.. Our relegation was inevitable at some point but dont abandon the principles that got us there.. Rant over.. š¤ Don't take this personally but I pretty much disagree with every word you've said! |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Sept 6, 2019 17:19:56 GMT 1
Why do people use the Mounie sending off as some sort of change in our season. We might of scored early but Brighton were the better team before the sending off anyway and Mounie was bloody useless when he was on the pitch that season. Bollox.. Brighton barely got in our half until mounie got sent off.. They then equalised with last kick in 1st half injury time after bruno kept in a long ball over the top which i think had gone out of play but linesman didnt give.. I agree. This certainly was a turning point. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Sept 6, 2019 17:22:30 GMT 1
Been ruminating whilst on hols.. Its my belief that the biggest cause of our current predicament is allowing wagner to leave when he did.. His methods.. Training schedules.. Work ethic.. Terrier spirit.. Were the rock that our promotion and 1st successful premier lg season were built on.. The appointment of hudson and whitehead as youth team coaches working alongside him was ideal.. Let them watch and learn his methods at first hand.. Then at some time in the future hudson could take over and carry on the good work.. We all know now that wagner changed his playing system because he knew diakabhy/mbenza/sobhi wernt good enough.. Our relegation became almost inevitable by xmas last year.. However the club should have kept faith in the wagner model.. Insisted he stayed on to end of season or put hudson/whitehead in charge to end of season.. Whilst we were going down anyway i believe its the appointment of sievert that really fooooked us up.. He came in like a wrecking ball.. Pissed off half the team.. Ruined the team spirit.. Changed training methods.. And seemingly got everything wrong.. The club abandoned the ideas and principles that brought it its greatest success in 40+ years.. I still believe hudson should get the managers job.. Hes had a tough start but can turn it around given time.. To appoint cowley/bowyer/adkins or whoever would be a further abandonment of the wagner revolution.. Our relegation was inevitable at some point but dont abandon the principles that got us there.. Rant over.. š¤ Good post. Wagner the man not just Wagner the manager is impossible to replace. The whole āTerrier Spiritā thing was driven my him. |
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 3,198
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Post by wigster on Sept 6, 2019 18:22:12 GMT 1
Style I said, not formation Our approach after the Tottenham game was the complete opposite to nearly every game he had managed before then Nah.. Not buying that "after the spurs game" Nonsense..thats been perpetuated by the new chairman to hide our bad recruitment. What about when we beat watford 4-1 and bournmouth? We were on the front foot and agressive in some games.. Lack of quality killed us in the end.. Not the change in formation or playing style Have to disagree - I thought that it had generally been accepted, rightly, that Wagner changed things after the Spurs game. He changed the formation and playing style and we totally lost the "identity" we'd had before (even Dean Hoyle accepted this)> By all means blame Phil H for lots of things but he was right to point out this change and wasn't hiding anything. Most football seasons have turning points/watersheds and the Spurs match was most certainly one of Wagners. We were literally never the same since. |
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King Curtis
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Bacon is good for me
Posts: 4,807
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Post by King Curtis on Sept 6, 2019 21:10:02 GMT 1
The Spurs game theory is absolute bollocks. We were in mid table after that result with 9 points from 7 games...
There is no way a manager changes his style after one 90 minute thumping.
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Post by ritchie on Sept 6, 2019 23:33:04 GMT 1
Bang on about Siewert, he was the exact opposite of what the club and players needed at the time. The time wasted and damage done will be very difficult to recover from and I think the identity is now pretty much gone. Club was stupidly talking about three window transition shortly after he came in. Not quite sure how they expected that to impact morale and team spirit. I know how it would go down at my place of work if the boss publicly told us they were looking to replace a lot of us all over the next year or so. Total fuckwittery imo. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards I'm gonna sound crazy given what we know now (that siewert was obviously a bad appointment) But i still think at the time it was the right idea, wrong person Siewerts problem was his personality (and the fact he wasnt wagner). he might be a terrible coach for all i know but he must have pulled the wool over a lot of eyes. i think the problem was he was done within 2 weeks of arriving.....the players didnt like him and even if he was the best coach about he was never going to get his ideas across my guess he's a decent coach and his disciplined approach works with young german kids. had he hit it off with the players and got a few positive performances, assesed the squad and been allowed to shape his team things might have been different..but I appreciate there's not much evidence for that, just a feeling I have. Also, had his sacking brought a radical improvement in performances I might not be so kind to him |
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 3,198
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Post by wigster on Sept 7, 2019 1:12:59 GMT 1
The Spurs game theory is absolute bollocks. We were in mid table after that result with 9 points from 7 games... There is no way a manager changes his style after one 90 minute thumping. Not sure why it's "bollocks" - Dean Hoyle said so, Phil H said so, and lots of Town supporters have said so for a long time. We set up differently, a lot more defensively and I think you might accept that the whole gegenpressing style went out the weindow. You're entitled to your opinion but why not explain why you think so, instead of just the aggressive "it's bollocks" post ? |
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hthtafs
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 474
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Post by hthtafs on Sept 7, 2019 7:15:40 GMT 1
At the outset let me say I loved Wagner, and what he gave us. He truly galvanised the club. However I think we are where we are because DH started to believe all this IDENTITY bullshit and restructured the club based on a manager who had indicated he might leave on a couple of occasions and was only ever going to be here for 3 /4 years regardless of success or failure.
If you look at clubs with a clear strategy / business model / football philosophy say Swansea or Brentford, it comes from the boardroom / director of football down. Yes there have been great managers who have built dynasties Busby, Ferguson, Shankly, Revie, Nicholson, even Dario Garde @ Crewe (ignoring other issues!) but Wagner was never going to stay around long enough. The big loss for me was Webber. Hoyle who Iām eternally grateful to; threw a hell of a lot of money at it, in a scatter gun approach with moderate success, until Webberās considered approach landed us not only Wagner, but players like Mooy and Ward.
It should have been a top down strategy built bottom up, instead we ended up with have arsed attempt to model ourselves on the best supported side in Europe! We arrogantly abandoned our academy, at the one time we potentially had competitive advantage over Leeds, Barnsley & Sheff Utd. Additionally appear to have had absolutely no recruitment strategy or insight, which resulted in us squandering millions.
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Post by royrace on Sept 7, 2019 7:43:55 GMT 1
Bang on about Siewert, he was the exact opposite of what the club and players needed at the time. The time wasted and damage done will be very difficult to recover from and I think the identity is now pretty much gone. Club was stupidly talking about three window transition shortly after he came in. Not quite sure how they expected that to impact morale and team spirit. I know how it would go down at my place of work if the boss publicly told us they were looking to replace a lot of us all over the next year or so. Total fuckwittery imo. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards I'm gonna sound crazy given what we know now (that siewert was obviously a bad appointment) But i still think at the time it was the right idea, wrong person Siewerts problem was his personality (and the fact he wasnt wagner). he might be a terrible coach for all i know but he must have pulled the wool over a lot of eyes. i think the problem was he was done within 2 weeks of arriving.....the players didnt like him and even if he was the best coach about he was never going to get his ideas across my guess he's a decent coach and his disciplined approach works with young german kids. had he hit it off with the players and got a few positive performances, assesed the squad and been allowed to shape his team things might have been different..but I appreciate there's not much evidence for that, just a feeling I have. Also, had his sacking brought a radical improvement in performances I might not be so kind to him I agree and suspect his big failing was in his man management. It was blindingly obvious from very early that the players hadn't taken to him at all and to be honest just based on his record and age it's not surprising. When you factor in poor man management, childish post match interviews and messing with the captaincy it's not surprising that the team spirit was completely destroyed. Unfortunately the board just sat by whilst he destroyed morale and just made things worse by talking about three window transitions and mass clear outs. It was a stupid experiment that should have been ended at the end of the season latest, instead they replace his brand new assistant. I think the biggest insight into Siewert and how he went down with the players are the comments from Billing. He shouldn't have said it but it was obviously bang on. Just hope the next appointment is as good as the last was bad. Damage was done with Siewert appointment and the following pig headedness in persevering with him despite the obvious. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Sept 7, 2019 9:31:27 GMT 1
I'm gonna sound crazy given what we know now (that siewert was obviously a bad appointment) But i still think at the time it was the right idea, wrong person Siewerts problem was his personality (and the fact he wasnt wagner). he might be a terrible coach for all i know but he must have pulled the wool over a lot of eyes. i think the problem was he was done within 2 weeks of arriving.....the players didnt like him and even if he was the best coach about he was never going to get his ideas across my guess he's a decent coach and his disciplined approach works with young german kids. had he hit it off with the players and got a few positive performances, assesed the squad and been allowed to shape his team things might have been different..but I appreciate there's not much evidence for that, just a feeling I have. Also, had his sacking brought a radical improvement in performances I might not be so kind to him I agree and suspect his big failing was in his man management. It was blindingly obvious from very early that the players hadn't taken to him at all and to be honest just based on his record and age it's not surprising. When you factor in poor man management, childish post match interviews and messing with the captaincy it's not surprising that the team spirit was completely destroyed. Unfortunately the board just sat by whilst he destroyed morale and just made things worse by talking about three window transitions and mass clear outs. It was a stupid experiment that should have been ended at the end of the season latest, instead they replace his brand new assistant. I think the biggest insight into Siewert and how he went down with the players are the comments from Billing. He shouldn't have said it but it was obviously bang on. Just hope the next appointment is as good as the last was bad. Damage was done with Siewert appointment and the following pig headedness in persevering with him despite the obvious. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards Spot on. |
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Post by hypotenuse on Sept 7, 2019 23:13:16 GMT 1
Bollox.. Brighton barely got in our half until mounie got sent off.. They then equalised with last kick in 1st half injury time after bruno kept in a long ball over the top which i think had gone out of play but linesman didnt give.. Watching a completely different game to me then. We were not playing well in that Brighton match before the sending off. Saying the sending off of a player who couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo was a turning point in our season is delusional and a deflection tactic from the Wagner can do no wrong fanboys. You may think that but you are wrong. It was the pivotal moment of the season. |
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