bluesandtwos
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 12, 2024 13:29:25 GMT 1
My original position was give the lad a final chance etc. What kid of message does it send if we just abandon him However if he's bet on his own team to lose. I just don't think that's acceptable. The club presumably have justification to rip up his contract and sack him. If I as KN I'd do that in this case I'm afraid Is your opinion exactly the same for Harry Toffolo? He also bet against his own team to loose on a number of occasions when he was gambling at the same age as Kian Would you ever want Toff back at Town? No, because by the time it happened he would be forty and probably on crutches given our record of bringing previous players back. 😉
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Feb 12, 2024 13:35:06 GMT 1
My original position was give the lad a final chance etc. What kid of message does it send if we just abandon him However if he's bet on his own team to lose. I just don't think that's acceptable. The club presumably have justification to rip up his contract and sack him. If I as KN I'd do that in this case I'm afraid Is your opinion exactly the same for Harry Toffolo? He also bet against his own team to loose on a number of occasions when he was gambling at the same age as Kian Would you ever want Toff back at Town? The difference here is that Harratt was done for hare coarsing, now this. Toffolo was done for betting only. The kid has talent but at what stage does that talent outweigh the behaviour off the pitch? Two excellent points made earlier in the thread; 1. Harratt would have benefitted from a Rocket Ron style mentor, absolutely. 2. Bullock was eventually moved on to Swindon partly due to his off the field behaviours. There is a line to be drawn with Harratt and sadly it’s in the club’s eyeline, it’s not on the distant horizon. His choice to save his potential career or end up playing Non-League.
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ambryboy
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Post by ambryboy on Feb 12, 2024 13:46:34 GMT 1
Is your opinion exactly the same for Harry Toffolo? He also bet against his own team to loose on a number of occasions when he was gambling at the same age as Kian Would you ever want Toff back at Town? The difference here is that Harratt was done for hare coarsing, now this. Toffolo was done for betting only. The kid has talent but at what stage does that talent outweigh the behaviour off the pitch? Two excellent points made earlier in the thread; 1. Harratt would have benefitted from a Rocket Ron style mentor, absolutely. 2. Bullock was eventually moved on to Swindon partly due to his off the field behaviours. There is a line to be drawn with Harratt and sadly it’s in the club’s eyeline, it’s not on the distant horizon. His choice to save his potential career or end up playing Non-League. Interestingly though, he excelled under Warnock's wing and perhaps to a lesser extent with Jepson and old head in the dressing room, whereas Horton wasn't able to 'manage' Bullock as effectively. Perhaps if Warnock and Jepson had stayed in place longer this season they could have got Harratt more focussed on carving a football career than the less than inspirational Darren Bore did.
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Feb 12, 2024 13:48:53 GMT 1
Very true. Maybe we need to see who the new manager is also to see if they have form for dealing with issues off the field.
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Terriersmad
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Post by Terriersmad on Feb 12, 2024 14:35:30 GMT 1
While I'm not hanging Harratt out to dry, he's in the last-chance saloon (if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor). What I will say in his favour is that he's not getting convicted of serious criminal offences. In the grand scheme, these are misdemeanours that a misled kid might commit. As I understand it, and I stand to be corrected, his conviction for hare coursing last year was alongside family members. Better role models are clearly required, although he is at an age where he should be making better choices for himself.
The betting issue is, as others have said, a football-wide issue. He's far from the first, and he certainly won't be the last. He's tried it on, thinking he can get away with it, and he hasn't. A learning curve in itself. The powers that be have issued a ban that rules him out for the season. He has to take it on the chin - as do we as a club - and learn from it for next season. That the powers that be are themselves in bed with the betting companies, and that football itself is powered by the money of gambling, is both a relevant and separate issue. How can a game that relies on that money come down on a player who gambles, and who will during his career wear shirts emblazoned with gambling sponsors? But how can a game have integrity when its players place money on its own side to lose? They are both separate issues, but which are intertwined. The simple answer, if football wants to clean up its act, is to outlaw gambling sponsorship and partnerships. Which won't happen as too much money is at stake.
Why has Harratt got an immediate ban while Toffolo hasn't? Time will have a big thing to do with it. Toffolo has shown that he's a changed character over a number of years and there's no point in banning such a player, while Harratt was gambling up to discovery. No problem with the apparent discrepancy here - especially as Harratt's suspension also coincides with an injury. It's a chance for him to get fit, take stock, and come back in pre-season hungry and focussed on football rather than anything outside.
Harratt has potential, there's no doubt of that. He reminds me of Jamie Vardy in his character, and if he cuts out the off-the-field stupidity he could be a valuable asset. However, there's only so much the club can take, and were I in charge I'd be sitting him down and telling him that anything else would result in his contract being torn up for gross misconduct. He has a chance, he might need a mentor, he definitely needs to knuckle down.
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Post by detox on Feb 12, 2024 14:41:56 GMT 1
Do Town still have to pay Harratt while he's banned from football ?
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Feb 12, 2024 15:16:28 GMT 1
My original position was give the lad a final chance etc. What kid of message does it send if we just abandon him However if he's bet on his own team to lose. I just don't think that's acceptable. The club presumably have justification to rip up his contract and sack him. If I as KN I'd do that in this case I'm afraid Is your opinion exactly the same for Harry Toffolo? He also bet against his own team to loose on a number of occasions when he was gambling at the same age as Kian Would you ever want Toff back at Town? That's a fair point but I think it's a lot higher profile now than when Toffolo was younger and after Toney you know the punishment At the very least Harratt has got off very lightly Ferguson is the best manager in the modern era but he knew when to cut his loses, e.g Lee Sharpe Would Ferguson keep Harratt after this latest set back? Probably not
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bluesandtwos
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 12, 2024 16:04:20 GMT 1
The difference here is that Harratt was done for hare coarsing, now this. Toffolo was done for betting only. The kid has talent but at what stage does that talent outweigh the behaviour off the pitch? Two excellent points made earlier in the thread; 1. Harratt would have benefitted from a Rocket Ron style mentor, absolutely. 2. Bullock was eventually moved on to Swindon partly due to his off the field behaviours. There is a line to be drawn with Harratt and sadly it’s in the club’s eyeline, it’s not on the distant horizon. His choice to save his potential career or end up playing Non-League. Interestingly though, he excelled under Warnock's wing and perhaps to a lesser extent with Jepson and old head in the dressing room, whereas Horton wasn't able to 'manage' Bullock as effectively. Perhaps if Warnock and Jepson had stayed in place longer this season they could have got Harratt more focussed on carving a football career than the less than inspirational Darren Bore did. DM can be blamed for many things but Harratt’s gambling isn’t one of them. Everyone has personal responsibility for their actions, Harratt included.
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Post by ilsonterrier on Feb 12, 2024 18:10:20 GMT 1
I think a large part of Toffolo's defence was that, at the time he placed the bets, he didn't know he wasn't allowed to gamble on football. Apparently he had never had it pointed out to him and he knew of other, more senior, players in his team who were doing it (no idea whether any of these have been punished - although one of them may well have been Toney at Scunthorpe). When he went to Lincoln he was told that he shouldn't bet and he hasn't placed a bet since.
I didn't read the whole judgement on Toffolo but I seem to think I've seen something that mentioned he volunteered the fact that he placed bets, rather than being found out - but I'm not 100% on that.
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 12, 2024 18:23:57 GMT 1
I think a large part of Toffolo's defence was that, at the time he placed the bets, he didn't know he wasn't allowed to gamble on football. Apparently he had never had it pointed out to him and he knew of other, more senior, players in his team who were doing it (no idea whether any of these have been punished - although one of them may well have been Toney at Scunthorpe). When he went to Lincoln he was told that he shouldn't bet and he hasn't placed a bet since. I didn't read the whole judgement on Toffolo but I seem to think I've seen something that mentioned he volunteered the fact that he placed bets, rather than being found out - but I'm not 100% on that. Doubt it, Toffolo is older than Toney
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Post by ilsonterrier on Feb 12, 2024 20:49:58 GMT 1
I think a large part of Toffolo's defence was that, at the time he placed the bets, he didn't know he wasn't allowed to gamble on football. Apparently he had never had it pointed out to him and he knew of other, more senior, players in his team who were doing it (no idea whether any of these have been punished - although one of them may well have been Toney at Scunthorpe). When he went to Lincoln he was told that he shouldn't bet and he hasn't placed a bet since. I didn't read the whole judgement on Toffolo but I seem to think I've seen something that mentioned he volunteered the fact that he placed bets, rather than being found out - but I'm not 100% on that. Doubt it, Toffolo is older than Toney Fair enough. I knew Toffolo's defence was based on copying actions of older players but not at which clubs - I was just making a guess.
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Post by Wings of a Duff on Feb 14, 2024 0:40:07 GMT 1
Doubt it, Toffolo is older than Toney Fair enough. I knew Toffolo's defence was based on copying actions of older players but not at which clubs - I was just making a guess. Wasn't another mitigating factor in Toffolo's case that he was under-age when he was betting?
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Post by belizian on Apr 29, 2024 1:33:39 GMT 1
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Post by melbourneterrier on Apr 29, 2024 5:00:03 GMT 1
I'm the opposite. I'd like to see him moved on honestly
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