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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 3, 2008 13:46:47 GMT 1
If specialun couldn't get through with his stats post, what chance do I have? I think a lot of people would rather trust their own eyes from being at the game, than some pretty meaningless stats  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 13:50:15 GMT 1
Not sure i believe the validity of this story but if it's true i'd be pleased. All three in my opinion should be retained.
Fo me a town side winning the play off final with the likes of Holdsworth, Booth and Clarke playing plus a cameo from Booth would mean so much more to me than a side full of signings.
Anyone who thinks this club is better without Worthy knows nothing about football.
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Post by midge on Dec 3, 2008 13:56:48 GMT 1
Sentiment is great.........but that alone won't get us promoted!!!
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 3, 2008 13:57:12 GMT 1
Not sure i believe the validity of this story but if it's true i'd be pleased. All three in my opinion should be retained. Fo me a town side winning the play off final with the likes of Holdsworth, Booth and Clarke playing plus a cameo from Booth would mean so much more to me than a side full of signings. Anyone who thinks this club is better without Worthy knows nothing about football. And equally I would say anyone who thinks it is OK for a caretaker manager to hand out contracts when a new manager appointment is imminent knows nothing about football. People seem to be missing the point, it isn't about the quality of the players or what you think about them; it wouldn't matter if it was Cristiano Ronaldo. Taking the decision out of the hands of the new manager is not right. It is nobodies decision to make but his. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 14:13:39 GMT 1
But a football club is bigger and more important than one manager it's about the history, the fans the future a structure has to be in palce that a manager has to fall in line with. The youth set up is of great importance to HTAFC and i presume is somethign Hoyle believes deeply in. Any success we achieve should incorporate as many people as possible who have come through the club. Yes you need to blend that with quality and expereince but it would be a sad day for HTAFC if we fielded a side that did not include a single academy product.
If you want a new manager to come and rip the heart and soul out the club because there is a bloke at Accrington, Blackpool or Scunthorpe who he rates more then thats your choice but it didn't work for stan.
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Post by midge on Dec 3, 2008 14:28:52 GMT 1
No one is suggesting that we field a team without 'a single academy product', but surely they have to be from the academy AND be good enough!! The players mentioned in this thread have been party to promotion season and a couple of good tilts at this league, but also the last 18 months of mediocrity that people are so frustrated about!! Surely, it would be foolish not to question their role in that!!?? After that 'good crop' of academy products that came over a period of a couple of years, you're left with Berrett, who I think will go on to play at a higher level, but that's about it!! You could say Smithies, Eastwood or Broadbent, but I think it's widely acknowledged that they are not ready for the 1st team!! Where are the 20 goal a season strikers coming through!!?? You'd be right in saying there aren't any but there are one or two decent ones at Blackpool and Scunthorpe at the moment!!!  |
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Post by pozza on Dec 3, 2008 14:34:44 GMT 1
If im honest, i'd rather we get promotion with 11 new players, than stay in this league for another 2 years while we continue to play with academy lads. It's nice to boast about having so many academy products in the first team, but when all is said and done I care more about the  on the shirt, than the name on the back of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 14:44:47 GMT 1
If im honest, i'd rather we get promotion with 11 new players, than stay in this league for another 2 years while we continue to play with academy lads. It's nice to boast about having so many academy products in the first team, but when all is said and done I care more about the on the shirt, than the name on the back of it. I agree. If they come through the academy, it doen't mean they have a right to the first team. Also they're not the be all and end all, there are players out there that are better than they are. Personally I don't see them being offered new deals a problem but if there comes a time where we can sign someone who is better, (or equal but of an age where they can progress) I would do it at the drop of a hat. |
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 3, 2008 15:00:57 GMT 1
But a football club is bigger and more important than one manager it's about the history, the fans the future a structure has to be in palce that a manager has to fall in line with. The youth set up is of great importance to HTAFC and i presume is somethign Hoyle believes deeply in. Any success we achieve should incorporate as many people as possible who have come through the club. Yes you need to blend that with quality and expereince but it would be a sad day for HTAFC if we fielded a side that did not include a single academy product. If you want a new manager to come and rip the heart and soul out the club because there is a bloke at Accrington, Blackpool or Scunthorpe who he rates more then thats your choice but it didn't work for stan. The manager shouldn't have to 'fall in line' with any expectations or opinions fans have about our club. All the posts seem to be missing the point - You cannot run a successful football club when you take the decisions out of the hands of the manager. Are you saying that when a new man comes in we have to say, 'Ok, we have a rich and proud academy history at Huddersfield Town, so no matter what you think of the local boys, we're going to offer them new contracts to use up money from your budget. What's that? You have better players in mind? Doesn't matter, we want our local lads in, and we've already signed them on deals before you got here. Tough luck.' |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Dec 3, 2008 15:12:25 GMT 1
But a football club is bigger and more important than one manager it's about the history, the fans the future a structure has to be in palce that a manager has to fall in line with. The youth set up is of great importance to HTAFC and i presume is somethign Hoyle believes deeply in. Any success we achieve should incorporate as many people as possible who have come through the club. Yes you need to blend that with quality and expereince but it would be a sad day for HTAFC if we fielded a side that did not include a single academy product. If you want a new manager to come and rip the heart and soul out the club because there is a bloke at Accrington, Blackpool or Scunthorpe who he rates more then thats your choice but it didn't work for stan. The manager shouldn't have to 'fall in line' with any expectations or opinions fans have about our club. All the posts seem to be missing the point - You cannot run a successful football club when you take the decisions out of the hands of the manager. Are you saying that when a new man comes in we have to say, 'Ok, we have a rich and proud academy history at Huddersfield Town, so no matter what you think of the local boys, we're going to offer them new contracts to use up money from your budget. What's that? You have better players in mind? Doesn't matter, we want our local lads in, and we've already signed them on deals before you got here. Tough luck.' Ternent signed about a dozen players and added 3 to the backroom He failed spectacularly To quote the worse manager in my 20 years following the club ... "promotion is not as easy as ordering steak and chips" |
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Post by midge on Dec 3, 2008 15:14:53 GMT 1
But a football club is bigger and more important than one manager it's about the history, the fans the future a structure has to be in palce that a manager has to fall in line with. The youth set up is of great importance to HTAFC and i presume is somethign Hoyle believes deeply in. Any success we achieve should incorporate as many people as possible who have come through the club. Yes you need to blend that with quality and expereince but it would be a sad day for HTAFC if we fielded a side that did not include a single academy product. If you want a new manager to come and rip the heart and soul out the club because there is a bloke at Accrington, Blackpool or Scunthorpe who he rates more then thats your choice but it didn't work for stan. The manager shouldn't have to 'fall in line' with any expectations or opinions fans have about our club. All the posts seem to be missing the point - You cannot run a successful football club when you take the decisions out of the hands of the manager. Are you saying that when a new man comes in we have to say, 'Ok, we have a rich and proud academy history at Huddersfield Town, so no matter what you think of the local boys, we're going to offer them new contracts to use up money from your budget. What's that? You have better players in mind? Doesn't matter, we want our local lads in, and we've already signed them on deals before you got here. Tough luck.' You would hope the manager is appointed on the basis that him and the Chairman AGREE what the way forward looks like so he will already know what he has to play with and what is expected of him!!! Obviously though, someone forgot this concept when making the last two appointments!!!!!  |
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 3, 2008 15:21:33 GMT 1
The manager shouldn't have to 'fall in line' with any expectations or opinions fans have about our club. All the posts seem to be missing the point - You cannot run a successful football club when you take the decisions out of the hands of the manager. Are you saying that when a new man comes in we have to say, 'Ok, we have a rich and proud academy history at Huddersfield Town, so no matter what you think of the local boys, we're going to offer them new contracts to use up money from your budget. What's that? You have better players in mind? Doesn't matter, we want our local lads in, and we've already signed them on deals before you got here. Tough luck.' Ternent signed about a dozen players and added 3 to the backroom He failed spectacularly To quote the worse manager in my 20 years following the club ... "promotion is not as easy as ordering steak and chips" We all know Stan signed a lot of players, but out of those only 2 have turned out to be duds? That's a pretty good return if you ask me. He didn't do too badly with his backroom staff either considering Docherty's reserve team went unbeaten. The only way that Stan failed was in his headstrong attitude, which didn't fit with ther people at the club and some fans. He wasn't fired for footballing reasons. If we continue to rely on our academy we will not be promoted, there is a much bigger chance we will be relegated. Stan knew this, and tried to change it. It didn't work out for Stan, but it doesn't mean we should go back to Uncle Gerry's mediocre at best 'young guns'. Sticking a cowboy hat on Jon Worthington doesn't make him Roy Keane. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 3, 2008 15:23:48 GMT 1
If specialun couldn't get through with his stats post, what chance do I have? I think a lot of people would rather trust their own eyes from being at the game, than some pretty meaningless stats But these are your eyes that ignore everything good he does and everything bad certain other players do. And as for the stats- you think how we've done over the last 3 or 4 years is 'meaningless'? I suspect they're only meaningless because they completely contradict your opinion |
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 3, 2008 15:28:37 GMT 1
I think a lot of people would rather trust their own eyes from being at the game, than some pretty meaningless stats But these are your eyes that ignore everything good he does and everything bad certain other players do. And as for the stats- you think how we've done over the last 3 or 4 years is 'meaningless'? I suspect they're only meaningless because they completely contradict your opinion Absolutely not, if you were to trawl back through the old match reports i've written this season you can see if Worthy has a good match then all the better for the team and good on him, he's not a player I don't like, I love that he always gives 100% for Town. I'm not some mental bloke holding a grudge i'm just saying it as I see it. Over the last 3 or 4 years, as you say, we have slowly seen the team become more and more mediocre. These players aren't suddenly going to turn in to world beaters and have us fly up the league. I think Worthington is a good squad player, and good to have on the bench and in reserve, but he will never be part of a starting XI that is promoted from this division. And you can hold me to that. |
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Post by CaptainHart on Dec 3, 2008 15:29:03 GMT 1
We all know Stan signed a lot of players, but out of those only 2 have turned out to be duds? He bought average players for this league. |
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 3, 2008 15:30:01 GMT 1
We all know Stan signed a lot of players, but out of those only 2 have turned out to be duds? He bought average players for this league. But all, barring Unsworth and Lucketti, useful additions to our squad? |
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Post by CaptainHart on Dec 3, 2008 15:38:56 GMT 1
But all, barring Unsworth and Lucketti, useful additions to our squad? At this level it’s not about the squad, it’s about the strength of the first eleven. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 15:48:51 GMT 1
Im with Tom on this one.
As for the Worthy debate, to be able to play at championship level and higher, you have to be able to think that bit quicker, see a pass before its on and have the ability to play that pass. Worthy gets away with it at this level (even though he plays some shocking balls and his shooting is laughable) as his effort tends to make up for it. The higher the level, the more his weaknesses will stand out and the less his strengths will be able to cover up those weaknesses.
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Post by pozza on Dec 3, 2008 17:44:59 GMT 1
you think how we've done over the last 3 or 4 years is 'meaningless'? Seeing we have got worse over the past 3/4 years I'd say they have been pretty meaningless aye. Lets face it, not one player who has come through the academy has improved in that past few years, if anything some have got worse. That alone should suggest we need to start looking elsewhere for our players. |
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Post by CaptainHart on Dec 3, 2008 17:48:38 GMT 1
That alone should suggest we need to start looking elsewhere for our players. Yes, because all our signings from outside have been outstanding successes… |
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Post by Porrohman on Dec 3, 2008 18:26:15 GMT 1
isnt it down to coaching the lack of improvement. clarke,worthy,mirf etc looked great when they first got in the team until jackson and yorath coached it out of them and subsiquently we've not had any coaches worth their wages
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Post by pozza on Dec 3, 2008 20:19:38 GMT 1
That alone should suggest we need to start looking elsewhere for our players. Yes, because all our signings from outside have been outstanding successes… They havn't been "outstanding" I agree, but, IMO they have been better than most of what we have brought through the academy. Most of these players are only playing because of the financial situation the club found itself in a few years ago. Would the majority of these players got the chance to play if we'd have been able to actually buy players? I personally dont think they would have done. Cant think of one player that has left Town (apart from Stead) who has come through the academy that has gone onto bigger and better than Huddersfield Town, if they were that good someone would have taken a few of us by now. EDIT - For the record I think the 3 layers mentioned in the thread title deserve to get new contracts, especially Holdsworth. The other 2 are squad players IMO, but at the moment we might as well have them, than not. As long as they havn't been put on silly long term deals, or given a wage increase, I have no problems with all them getting new contracts. |
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Post by shawsie on Dec 3, 2008 20:40:05 GMT 1
I think a lot of people would rather trust their own eyes from being at the game, than some pretty meaningless stats But these are your eyes that ignore everything good he does and everything bad certain other players do. And as for the stats- you think how we've done over the last 3 or 4 years is 'meaningless'? I suspect they're only meaningless because they completely contradict your opinion The last 3 or 4 years is pretty meaningless except for one thing slapps - proving that the existing players havent been or arent good enough to get us out of this league. Thats why so many people want a clean sweep of things - something stan tried to do but failed due to his own inadequacies and also outside influences! |
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 3, 2008 21:15:06 GMT 1
1. We never will succeed until we have a prolific striker or two, or at least it's extremely unlikely. To a point, it is irrelevant how good the existing players have been and continue to be. Without someone to actually score the goals we are never likely to finish higher than half way. Relying on midfielders to score has not and will not be enough to get us up. 2. The way to improve ISN'T to let your better players leave, nor is it ,as Ternent found out, to try and replace them with inferior players. If we can replace them with better players then fine, bring em in. Town don't 'owe' Clarke, Holdsworth or Worthy a living. But in each of these 3 cases, there are plenty of other players who would have to be replaced first. The last 3 or 4 years is a reference to how we've done with Worthy in or out of the side. As with Tom, it doesn't become 'meaningless' just because it completely contradicts you're opinion of him. What it proves is that he is a VITAL player for the club, that the team performs far better with him in it, and that had he not been here in those last 3 or 4 years we'd have been relegated back into the bottom division. Not bad for a reckless player who can't tackle, shoot (fair enough ), pass, head, press, dribble, run, control... Looking at those stats, its a pitty we don't have a few more who are as shit as him, then we might be playing championship football now! |
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Post by shawsie on Dec 3, 2008 21:25:39 GMT 1
1. We never will succeed until we have a prolific striker or two, or at least it's extremely unlikely. To a point, it is irrelevant how good the existing players have been and continue to be. Without someone to actually score the goals we are never likely to finish higher than half way. Relying on midfielders to score has not and will not be enough to get us up. 2. The way to improve ISN'T to let your better players leave, nor is it ,as Ternent found out, to try and replace them with inferior players. If we can replace them with better players then fine, bring em in. Town don't 'owe' Clarke, Holdsworth or Worthy a living. But in each of these 3 cases, there are plenty of other players who would have to be replaced first. The last 3 or 4 years is a reference to how we've done with Worthy in or out of the side. As with Tom, it doesn't become 'meaningless' just because it completely contradicts you're opinion of him. What it proves is that he is a VITAL player for the club, that the team performs far better with him in it, and that had he not been here in those last 3 or 4 years we'd have been relegated back into the bottom division. Not bad for a reckless player who can't tackle, shoot (fair enough ), pass, head, press, dribble, run, control... Looking at those stats, its a pitty we don't have a few more who are as shit as him, then we might be playing championship football now! Have to say slapps part of your post i agree with ---- for a change!!! We have to replace them with better players and we dont owe anyone a living - ternent left in reality because to date the players he brought in were no better consistently than those we had! As for the goalscorer requirement - yes we do need a better goalscorer, but it doesnt matter how bloody good your striker is if you ship 4 at posh, 5 at hartlepool, 4 against a league 2 team etc. We have to stop shipping goals first - that way the goals you do score become more important. Looking at those stats then its unbelievable he isnt playing championship football isnt it - surely the scouts would come flocking offering big bucks if he was that good??!! After all, we are a selling club who sold the likes of GTF as recently as 18m ago when he was our top scorer not an ordinary midfield player. |
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Post by pozza on Dec 3, 2008 21:30:48 GMT 1
I begging to think you are actually Jon Worthington Captain ;D I think people are starting to get criticle of the players down at Town. Maybe if they wern't academy products this would have happened a lot sooner (What happened with Jacko proves that you give your own more time) and we'd have been picking fault a lot sooner than we have done. The academy lads have done a sterling job to keep Town where we are, but in terms of moving forward, i'm afraid half of them are nowhere near the standard required. |
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Post by shawsie on Dec 3, 2008 21:42:11 GMT 1
I begging to think you are actually Jon Worthington Captain ;D I think people are starting to get criticle of the players down at Town. Maybe if they wern't academy products this would have happened a lot sooner (What happened with Jacko proves that you give your own more time) and we'd have been picking fault a lot sooner than we have done. The academy lads have done a sterling job to keep Town where we are, but in terms of moving forward, i'm afraid half of them are nowhere near the standard required. Hallelulah!!!!! We would all love to see better young local players replacing those we have but they havent been nor are they good enough to take us up. It is not as though they have been given 6/9 mths - clarke, worthy, holdsworth etc have been regulars for 4 years now and apart from the one year have finished mid table league 1. Nothing wrong with that for some clubs, but expectations here are for championship football and not even the biggest diehard could say we are anywhere near that right now. |
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Post by thrice on Dec 3, 2008 23:15:57 GMT 1
Yeah we need a prolific goalscorer or two but who doesn't. Our first priority however must be to get a mean defence established. We cannot continue to score score two and three goals but end up getting beat and then blame it on the fact we don't convert enough chances. I want to see us earn some grubby 1 nill 3pointers.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Dec 3, 2008 23:29:54 GMT 1
Yeah we need a prolific goalscorer or two but who doesn't. Our first priority however must be to get a mean defence established. We cannot continue to score score two and three goals but end up getting beat and then blame it on the fact we don't convert enough chances. I want to see us earn some grubby 1 nill 3pointers. We had a mean defence six months ago ... a back three of Page, Mirfin and Nathan Clarke - cheers for dismantling that Ternent - and then people say Ternent by and large brought in better than what was already here! Honestly I'd ship every one of Ternents signings on say for Butler, Denton (worth a punt), Parker and Roberts (but to be honest I was expecting better for £250k, i.e. Martin Smith standard) oops sorry i modified your post rather than quoting it sorry - MT |
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Post by TerrierArmy on Dec 3, 2008 23:37:36 GMT 1
Roberts is class HT. Pity we don't have another two of his standard.
Where Stan failed was signing the right player in the right position (LW, ST and RB). No good signing decent midfielders when there were plenty at the club already!
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on the shirt, than the name on the back of it.
