midlander
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Post by midlander on Dec 12, 2008 10:25:03 GMT 1
Glennon was at fault for the goal we conceded against Orient and cost us a point - therefore he made a mistake and deserves to be dropped! Really? By that rationale, Clarke and Butler should have been dropped too as they were equally culpable for the goal. You seem to forget that Glennon was voted man of the match by many only three days before the Orient game! To say he deserved dropping because of a mistake is ridiculous. The fact that he made two other good saves in the game and their keeper didn't have a thing to do would suggest he kept us in the game - that's if I'm using your logic! FWIW, I think Smithies is a very good prospect and I don't have a problem with him playing. It was very strange to see him in the team for Walsall as Murphy had said the game was a "must win". With that in mind, I cannot see why he would take a risk like that without some underlying reason. Glennon was certainly fuming last Saturday, so all this rubbish about him taking it well, is bizarre! Glennon would not have saved the Walsall goal last week and Smithies did nothing wrong, although he didn't move his feet very well for the goal (that has to be said). Another way of looking at it would be that Smithies has played 2 and a quarter games for Town and conceded 7 goals, three of which he has been in someway culpable for. We can make stats and mistakes say whatever we choose. Glennon is a decent keeper, Smithies has decent potential. Gerry picks the team, that's his perogative to choose who he thinks is best equipped to do the job - his timing of bringing in Smithies though makes it seem like there is something in the background with Glennon.
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 10:35:09 GMT 1
I can't believe some of the heads in the hand opinion on here sometimes.
I thought most people would find the timing of this replacement 'coincidental' to say the least. Matt Glennon certainly seems to.
I'm not nit picking I thought I was pointing out the pretty blatant and obvious to be honest. Gerry knew that appointment was to be made and that was when he thought it was just as good of a time as any to put Smithies in. Are you telling me that if our 2nd choice keeper had been someone like Paul Gerrard, we'd now be seeing him in net because why not?
We wouldn't, and that is because Murphy wouldn't all of a sudden, for no particular reason, give him experience and a run out.
I'm not saying Gerry is giving favour in every position all the time etc etc that's quite a silly thread to take, but i'm saying this change for me sticks out as noticeable.
An analogy: You have been working well in your job for some time now up on the sales floor, but you've been hearing a new manager is going to come in soon so you want to impress him. All of a sudden you're sent down to work in the basement, because a younger lad, who happens to have been trained up by your current boss 'needs some experience'. The new manager then comes in, and despite the last however long, he sees you in the basement and the young apprentice in your seat. I'd say, you'd probably be pretty well pissed off at that? And a fair amount at the manager who put you there.
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Post by htafc4lyfe on Dec 12, 2008 10:44:54 GMT 1
I can't really see any other reason Smithies would be starting between the sticks suddenly, than to give Lee Clark a better look at him.
The idea that it's because Glennon has been average is a pretty crapalicious one, if you believe that you're a bit of a spaz.
I don't particularly mind cos Smithies is potentially an alright keeper (Championship at best), but if I were Matty G i'd be up the wall, and rightfully so.
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midlander
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by midlander on Dec 12, 2008 11:02:25 GMT 1
Tom, if you read my post carefully, I'm not saying Smithies shouldn't be given a chance. I was referring to Hudds' comment that Glennon deserved dropping because of the Orient game (which is a ludicrous statement) and the fact that he puts him in for a "must-win" (Gerry's words) game.
There is more to this than is publically available. Why else would gerry say Glennon took it well, when I know for a FACT that he was seething on Saturday?!
I like both of them as keepers, but you have to admit that Glennon didn't deserve dropping in light of recent performances.
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 11:05:16 GMT 1
Tom, if you read my post carefully, I'm not saying Smithies shouldn't be given a chance. I was referring to Hudds' comment that Glennon deserved dropping because of the Orient game (which is a ludicrous statement) and the fact that he puts him in for a "must-win" (Gerry's words) game. There is more to this than is publically available. Why else would gerry say Glennon took it well, when I know for a FACT that he was seething on Saturday?! I like both of them as keepers, but you have to admit that Glennon didn't deserve dropping in light of recent performances. I absolute agree with your post midlander ;D Apologies if I made it sound like I didn't, I think we're both on the same track.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2008 11:18:43 GMT 1
Smithies reminds me of Joe Hart at Man City. If first team football means he will get somewhere near that level then who cares what the surcumstances are? We'll have a great keeper that could help us make the step up to the championship.
So lay off Murphy and his reasons for putting Smithies in, Glennon got dropped, get over it, whether he deserved it or not thats football. We could have one hell of a keeper coming through the ranks so leave him be and let him get on with it, he will most likely make a few mistakes now & again but thats to be expected with every young keeper.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 12:33:41 GMT 1
Midlander I'm a big fan of Glennon and have stuck for him when 90% of folk were giving him stick - even got into an arguement at Crewe away last season over Glennon and the reaction of some to there second goal For me he made an utter hash of the Orient goal, I actually think it was far worse keeping than the goal which got him so much stick at Crewe (which was more unlucky IMO). The fact is if Glennon had held his original position against Orient it would have made the chance for Boyd hard, if he'd come forward and made himself "big" I doubt Boyd would have scored. Instead he went back, then went back, then went back ending up on his goal line and leaving Boyd with a tap in from 5 yards out - that's a big rik and IMO dropping him won't harm (re-focus the mind) and playing Smithies, who will be better than Glennon (when is the million dollar question maybe 1 year, 2 years maybe now - how do you know if you never play him!) what I do know is a little first team exposure WILL help make Smithies a better keeper Glennons's not the first player to get dropped for making a mistake that cost a goal (happens to defenders most weekends!), and if Smithies is doing well in the stiffs why shouldn't he get his chance
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 12:43:26 GMT 1
The debate isn't why shouldn't Smithies get a chance at some point in the season; he should.
The debate is, why has he been given that chance now, and I think the answer is quite obvious.
And it isn't a mistake by Glennon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2008 13:18:10 GMT 1
Midlander I'm a big fan of Glennon and have stuck for him when 90% of folk were giving him stick - even got into an arguement at Crewe away last season over Glennon and the reaction of some to there second goal For me he made an utter hash of the Orient goal, I actually think it was far worse keeping than the goal which got him so much stick at Crewe (which was more unlucky IMO). The fact is if Glennon had held his original position against Orient it would have made the chance for Boyd hard, if he'd come forward and made himself "big" I doubt Boyd would have scored. Instead he went back, then went back, then went back ending up on his goal line and leaving Boyd with a tap in from 5 yards out - that's a big rik and IMO dropping him won't harm (re-focus the mind) and playing Smithies, who will be better than Glennon (when is the million dollar question maybe 1 year, 2 years maybe now - how do you know if you never play him!) what I do know is a little first team exposure WILL help make Smithies a better keeper Glennons's not the first player to get dropped for making a mistake that cost a goal (happens to defenders most weekends!), and if Smithies is doing well in the stiffs why shouldn't he get his chance Come on Hudds you're kidding yourself if you think Glennon was dropped for making a mistake. He made 2 or 3 against Vale and wasn't dropped. Its blatently obvious Murphy knew his time as caretaker was coming to an end, and decided to give one of his academy lads a chance. Murphy even said: "we were playing at home today and if we don't give Alex a chance when will we. " By all means argue Gerry's reasons for giving him a chance, but don't try and make out it was anything to do with Glennon's performance against Orient
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 14:48:20 GMT 1
Midlander I'm a big fan of Glennon and have stuck for him when 90% of folk were giving him stick - even got into an arguement at Crewe away last season over Glennon and the reaction of some to there second goal For me he made an utter hash of the Orient goal, I actually think it was far worse keeping than the goal which got him so much stick at Crewe (which was more unlucky IMO). The fact is if Glennon had held his original position against Orient it would have made the chance for Boyd hard, if he'd come forward and made himself "big" I doubt Boyd would have scored. Instead he went back, then went back, then went back ending up on his goal line and leaving Boyd with a tap in from 5 yards out - that's a big rik and IMO dropping him won't harm (re-focus the mind) and playing Smithies, who will be better than Glennon (when is the million dollar question maybe 1 year, 2 years maybe now - how do you know if you never play him!) what I do know is a little first team exposure WILL help make Smithies a better keeper Glennons's not the first player to get dropped for making a mistake that cost a goal (happens to defenders most weekends!), and if Smithies is doing well in the stiffs why shouldn't he get his chance Come on Hudds you're kidding yourself if you think Glennon was dropped for making a mistake. He made 2 or 3 against Vale and wasn't dropped. Its blatently obvious Murphy knew his time as caretaker was coming to an end, and decided to give one of his academy lads a chance. Murphy even said: "we were playing at home today and if we don't give Alex a chance when will we. " By all means argue Gerry's reasons for giving him a chance, but don't try and make out it was anything to do with Glennon's performance against Orient Honestly Paul I honestly think that mistake against Orient was sub Sunday League stuff, I must have been screaming at Glennon for about 5 seconds to come to ball all the while he was back peddling ... for me it was the worse mistake I've seen Glennon make I don't dispute GM gives his lads a chance, and let's face it is anyone complaining with the decisions to recall Berrett and Collins (why they were frozen out only Ternent knows) ... but equally I think people are being unfair on Smithies saying he was only picked due to GM "looking afte his boys"
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Post by Floyds on Dec 12, 2008 15:17:08 GMT 1
Glennon has made countless mistakes over the last 2 years, it wasnt just the Orient game. He is consistently just not very good.
Smithies is supposed to be a decent prospect, why not give him a try?
And what better game than a third into the season, 14th in the league and at home to an equally poor team?
Why should we not play him now? It is hardly make or break time for us is it? Or at least no more so than 5 games previously, or in 5 games time? We dont wanna be giving him a try when we are in the relegation zone, or the play off chase.
Walsall was no more "must win" than Orient the game before. We played Glenda in that, and lost - whether it was directly his fault or not.
And if Smithies has a bad game and lets in three - so what? Glenda would probably have fared no better (Peterborough away springs to mind), but Clark might put him back in next week. and if he does well - good lad, keep him in the side.
Seems like common sense to me.
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Post by ding1981 on Dec 12, 2008 15:30:38 GMT 1
i'm with you floyd - the 3rd and 4th goals he let in at peterborough were mistakes...if only he'd have closed his legs...
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 15:34:57 GMT 1
That's logical actually, the mistakes he made at Peterborough are probably why he was dropped for the last game.
Oh wait...
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Post by Floyds on Dec 12, 2008 15:48:33 GMT 1
christ
he has been poor for the majority of this season, and the whole of last season.
why shouldnt he be dropped? is he an "untouchable"? do you actually think he is that good so as to be guaranteed a place every week?
i dont get it - if smithies was rubbish do you think GM would have put him in? and risked losing us the 3 points, and damaged his reputation?
of course not.
he had only played one league game (at elland road) - if he is a good prospect - i can see no reason for not playing him?
oh, wait a minute, it is a crucial phase of the season int it?
stroke, if this is crucial, god knows what a game when we are within 5 or 6 points of either playoffs or relegation?
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philex
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by philex on Dec 12, 2008 16:00:45 GMT 1
christ he has been poor for the majority of this season, and the whole of last season. why shouldnt he be dropped? is he an "untouchable"? do you actually think he is that good so as to be guaranteed a place every week? i dont get it - if smithies was rubbish do you think GM would have put him in? and risked losing us the 3 points, and damaged his reputation? of course not. he had only played one league game (at elland road) - if he is a good prospect - i can see no reason for not playing him? oh, wait a minute, it is a crucial phase of the season int it? stroke, if this is crucial, god knows what a game when we are within 5 or 6 points of either playoffs or relegation? He was so poor last season that at the start of it fans were booing him yet by the end they were singing "super Matty Glennon", that turnaround annoyed me so much I couldn't even put it in to words. This season has had it's ups and downs for Glennon, but it has for all the other players, unfortunately for Glennon his errors stand out because they are most likely to end in goals. Giving Smithies a chance was needed, Glennon needs to know that there is competition but he's still number 1 and will stay there until at least January, beyond that if we don't get a new keeper in.
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 16:00:56 GMT 1
christ he has been poor for the majority of this season, and the whole of last season. why shouldnt he be dropped? is he an "untouchable"? do you actually think he is that good so as to be guaranteed a place every week? i dont get it - if smithies was rubbish do you think GM would have put him in? and risked losing us the 3 points, and damaged his reputation? of course not. he had only played one league game (at elland road) - if he is a good prospect - i can see no reason for not playing him? oh, wait a minute, it is a crucial phase of the season int it? stroke, if this is crucial, god knows what a game when we are within 5 or 6 points of either playoffs or relegation? What? Glennon was brilliant last season He has struggled this season because our defence has been woeful, but any keeper would have struggled, it was the fault of the defence not him. I've never said Smithies was rubbish, as I say above this isn't anything to do with how good Alex Smithies is, so I'm not sure why it keeps being brought up. It's not even about putting Smithies in the team ahead of Matty Glennon, it's the timing that says everything to me. Glennon is rightfully angry.
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Post by ding1981 on Dec 12, 2008 16:20:14 GMT 1
how many embarrassing defeats did we suffer last season?
grimsby - 4-1 northampton - 3-0 wallsall - 4-0 tranmere - 3-0 (i was there - it was woeful) gillingham - 3-1 oldham - 4-1
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Post by Richard1986 on Dec 12, 2008 16:22:17 GMT 1
Glennon has hardly missed a game since he signed for us. I'm sure he'll get over it.
Hope we win against Southend and Smithies puts in a good performance, can't be bothered listening to people crowing about it if not
Does it really matter? Whats the big deal zzzzzz
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 16:26:29 GMT 1
Glennon has hardly missed a game since he signed for us. I'm sure he'll get over it. Hope we win against Southend and Smithies puts in a good performance, can't be bothered listening to people crowing about it if not Does it really matter? Whats the big deal zzzzzz It might just be me but I think this kind of favouritism and bias is bad for the club. The team should be selected solely on the motive to win games, not to put people in the shop window.
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Post by townfan4ever on Dec 12, 2008 16:32:43 GMT 1
how many embarrassing defeats did we suffer last season? grimsby - 4-1 northampton - 3-0 wallsall - 4-0 tranmere - 3-0 (i was there - it was woeful) gillingham - 3-1 oldham - 4-1 You can't just lay the blame on Glennon for those defeats, the defence have to be blamed as well!
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Post by Floyds on Dec 12, 2008 16:41:07 GMT 1
yeah they were blamed - hence we signed Lucketti, Butler and Unsworth - to try and shore things up.
only Stan's poor judgement that has rendered this a failure....!
glenda has to take some responsibility, as somepoint, surely?
rather than just 100% certain to be starting the next game regardless of how poor he is.
competition for places is what it is all about - and if smithies comes in and does well - then that can only benefit the team and the squad - surely?
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 16:53:28 GMT 1
Glennon has hardly missed a game since he signed for us. I'm sure he'll get over it. Hope we win against Southend and Smithies puts in a good performance, can't be bothered listening to people crowing about it if not Does it really matter? Whats the big deal zzzzzz It might just be me but I think this kind of favouritism and bias is bad for the club. The team should be selected solely on the motive to win games, not to put people in the shop window. I agree when Ternent was here the favouritism harmed the club, Unsworth, Lucketti selected despite looking shaking, shoe horning in Flynn in any position! Meanwhile others get frozen out, Berrett, Collins, Tom Clarke, Kamara If we were winning it wouldn't overly matter but we weren't Murphy is however winning and IMO picking sides on merit and not showing favouritism (i.e. selecting Goodwin over Worthy) IMO Murphy and Mitchell have done an excellent job in 4 weeks turning around the mess Ternent created in 6 months - the critism they get is a bit uncalled for
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Dec 12, 2008 17:05:23 GMT 1
;)Smithies will be in nets again tomorrow, I agree with it as he didnt do anything wrong against Walsall, its a good away game, and lee Clark will get a first look at him. But Lee will know we have the first choice usual keeper ( Glenda) and that it is just to give the very promising smithies a second game in a week. Its all going to gradually change when the excellent Lee and derek start, by the way Steve Black looks frightening, not surprised he has such a reputation... exciting times.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2008 17:07:58 GMT 1
To be fair Ternent dropped both Lucketti and Unsworth, and gave Collins a couple of chances which he didn't take.
If you're going to say that Murphy showed no favouritism by picking Goodwin over Worthington, then you have to say Ternent showed no favouritism by picking Clarke over Lucketti and Skarz over Unsworth. To be honest neither are true. Both Ternent and Murphy at times showed favouritism to 'their' players, thankfully we now have a new manager and can move forward with somebody who will hopefully pick the team fully on merit.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Dec 12, 2008 17:17:24 GMT 1
To be fair Ternent dropped both Lucketti and Unsworth, and gave Collins a couple of chances which he didn't take. If you're going to say that Murphy showed no favouritism by picking Goodwin over Worthington, then you have to say Ternent showed no favouritism by picking Clarke over Lucketti and Skarz over Unsworth. To be honest neither are true. Both Ternent and Murphy at times showed favouritism to 'their' players, thankfully we now have a new manager and can move forward with somebody who will hopefully pick the team fully on merit. Nathan only got a chance after Lucketti got injured As for Unsworth he was persisted with long enough (despite never looking fit) before he gave Williams a chance Dropping Holdsworth was harsh IMO while the way Craney was "bombed" a day after signing into the side (at Worthy's expense [?] who had been playing well) made a total mockery of the idea of competition in a large squad IMO I think Murphy is a lot fairer in his selection, I mean if he played favourites to the same degree he could have blooded Codman (couldn't do worse than Unsworth did) and given starts to Broadbent and Killock (I actually personally would have included SK last week) ... untlimately favourites or not recent results show Murphy is getting selections pretty much spot on really
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philex
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Post by philex on Dec 12, 2008 17:22:40 GMT 1
To be fair Ternent dropped both Lucketti and Unsworth, and gave Collins a couple of chances which he didn't take. If you're going to say that Murphy showed no favouritism by picking Goodwin over Worthington, then you have to say Ternent showed no favouritism by picking Clarke over Lucketti and Skarz over Unsworth. To be honest neither are true. Both Ternent and Murphy at times showed favouritism to 'their' players, thankfully we now have a new manager and can move forward with somebody who will hopefully pick the team fully on merit. Has anyone seen Unsworth have a good game aside from Sheff Utd (friendly)? I know Skarz hasn't set the world alight this season, in fact after the Leicester/Hartlepool games I thought he should be dropped but the other 2 left backs are hardly pushing him hard to take the shirt and give Murphy reason to drop him. As for Clarke over Lucketti, the performances alone saw to that, as well as the sending off at Peterborough. The consistent thing in defence from Ritchie to Murphy to Ternent to Murphy is that it has been N Clarke + A N Other, now that must say something to you about Clarke's ability rather than him being a favourite under 3 managers?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2008 17:24:58 GMT 1
Look I'm not defending Ternent or ciriticising Murphy here, but I feel your views are slightly biased by your dislike of Ternent. Unsworth was actually dropped after the Stockport game, and was only brought back in for 2 or 3 games after Williams hadn't performed, he was then dropped for Skarz. Clarke only missed the first 4 games (2 clean sheets), and then came in for Butler, then as soon as Butler was fit again Lucketti was dropped.
Some of Ternent's team selections were baffling, and I must stress I'm not defending the man, but he wasn't quite as extreme in his favouritism as you make out.
Anyway, lets move on hey, as I say I don't think Ternent or Murphy necessarily picked the team on merit, but its all in the past now.
Onwards and upwards.
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Post by Floyds on Dec 12, 2008 17:43:08 GMT 1
well you can only judge a man by his results
ternent spent 500k, doubled the budget and made a poor team worse
murphy has won 4 from 5 league.
yet still gets criticised for favouritism, choosing his boys first etc etc
christ - if picking his own boys first = winning 4 from 5 - why on earth is anyone complaining/questioning his decisions?!
wow - he has dropped matty fucking glennon - for one game in his entire league career!
i dont even understand why we are even having this debate, in all fairness.
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Post by Floyds on Dec 12, 2008 17:46:29 GMT 1
or is it 3 from 4?
cant remember! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2008 17:48:22 GMT 1
i dont even understand why we are even having this debate, in all fairness. I 100% agree with that
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