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Post by Polish Hippy on Feb 12, 2009 11:14:32 GMT 1
Why do you need to see the prices? 1) Tiered pricing is simply WRONG. We shouldn't care that other clubs have done it, we're Huddersfield Town, we try and do things properly. 2) Enforcing sale of tickets for 2 other games on the back of 1 specific game is ILLEGAL. Again, I know other clubs do it. Note, I'm a season ticket holder and will continue to be next season if the price starts with a 2, so neither of these things will directly affect me - it doesn't get away from them stinking though. If you wanted to buy a return train ticket from Hudds to Manchester (at standard price, not on some kind of cheap sale deal remember) - what would you do if they said, "ok, but if you want to go to Manchester you have to buy a ticket to Dewsbury and one to Slaithwaite as well". I tell you what you'd do, you'd do nothing, because its ILLEGAL, so they wouldn't do it. Well I think my views on games being categorised and priced differently are well documented. If there are plans afoot to re-introduced this incidious scheme again next season I will be urging my colleagues within HTSA to oppose it vigorously. I can appreciate your legal view point on the compulsory supplemental sales however given the nature of the L***s fixture and the potential that there is for L***s fans to buy tickets in home areas therefore possibly creating a scenario for crowd disturbances, surely you can see why this is being done?
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Post by Rigodon on Feb 12, 2009 11:16:20 GMT 1
how can we complain until we see the prices, football and other sports clubs have doen this for years and years lets see what happens before we throw the teddy out of the cot Why do you need to see the prices? 1) Tiered pricing is simply WRONG. We shouldn't care that other clubs have done it, we're Huddersfield Town, we try and do things properly. 2) Enforcing sale of tickets for 2 other games on the back of 1 specific game is ILLEGAL. Again, I know other clubs do it. Note, I'm a season ticket holder and will continue to be next season if the price starts with a 2, so neither of these things will directly affect me - it doesn't get away from them stinking though. If you wanted to buy a return train ticket from Hudds to Manchester (at standard price, not on some kind of cheap sale deal remember) - what would you do if they said, "ok, but if you want to go to Manchester you have to buy a ticket to Dewsbury and one to Slaithwaite as well". I tell you what you'd do, you'd do nothing, because its ILLEGAL, so they wouldn't do it. Have a poll on here to see how many people would be for that kind of scheme. I doubt many will be anywhere near as bothered as your good self sir. Alternatively, I am sure you could formulate a reasonable way forward for Dean to consider. The way I see it, is that Dean took a hit for us all to get cheap season tickets. as a result I am more than happy with this scheme, especially if it is championship football that we are watching! Also where was the inference that we would have to follow point 2 of your post next year?
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Post by Championship Problems on Feb 12, 2009 11:44:09 GMT 1
Why do you need to see the prices?
1) Tiered pricing is simply WRONG.
The application of tiered prices in football in this day and age is indeed wrong BUT that is not to say the we will implement the same as for example Chelsea/Leeds would.
Would anybody complain if next years 'A' games cost the same as a standard pay on the day ticket this year and our 'B' and 'C' games were considerably cheaper? I admit this may not be the plan and i don't know the plan BUT just look at how Mr Hoyle has made his money - mass produced - cheap retail compared to competitors.
He's indicated clearly that he is taking this principle into football management. season tickets etc. It would make perfect sense to have a tiered system next year IF it was implemented positivly. So I believe there is absolutey no point making negative assumptions due to the reputation of clubs that implement tiered pricing to benefit the owners not the fans.
Does anybody think Dean will in the very near future or has already done something to purely benefit himself and not us fans. I don't, therefore I am not prepared to criticise someone who in my opinion is going to be beneficial towards every aspect of HTAFC for the foreseeable future.
As for point 2. get over it. Did you have to buy 2 extra tickets to go to the leeds match? did anyone on this board? I doubt it. The only reason that is in place is to prevent leeds fans buying tickets in our stands. As far as i am aware if you have had association with HTAFC i.e been to a match or even bought a mug from the club shop then you didn't have to comply to the 2 ticket criteria. The only people that would are not on any of our databases. I dont see the club screwing the fans over with illegal ticket sales, i see us protecting our fans from them smelly turds from the big skip down the road.
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Post by terryya on Feb 12, 2009 11:57:24 GMT 1
I don't see the problem with tiered pricing.
If you want to travel on public transport during the most popular time then you pay more. If you want to go on holiday when most poeple want to go then you may more. If you want to see Oasis you pay more than if you want to see a local band.
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Post by Polish Hippy on Feb 12, 2009 12:05:31 GMT 1
I don't see the problem with tiered pricing. If you want to travel on public transport during the most popular time then you pay more. If you want to go on holiday when most poeple want to go then you may more. If you want to see Oasis you pay more than if you want to see a local band. IF you are prepared to pay those prices. I think there are plenty of people who would argue the point about Oasis as well. As far as i'm concerned I go to watch Huddersfield Town. I don't care if we'd be playing Real Madrid or the Rose and Crown. I support my team and it's them I pay to watch, not the opposition. It is morally wrong to charge different levels of pricing dependant upon who the opposition are. I fought tooth and nail to get it removed after Andrew Watson brought it in and i'll fight equally as hard to stop it being brought in for next season as well.
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Post by Championship Problems on Feb 12, 2009 12:13:37 GMT 1
''It is morally wrong to charge different levels of pricing dependant upon who the opposition are. I fought tooth and nail to get it removed after Andrew Watson brought it in and i'll fight equally as hard to stop it being brought in for next season as well.''
Even if it is introduced in a positive manner as i suggested in my post? I do agree with the principles of your argument in the context of the normal use of a tiered price plan.
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Post by Polish Hippy on Feb 12, 2009 12:41:02 GMT 1
''It is morally wrong to charge different levels of pricing dependant upon who the opposition are. I fought tooth and nail to get it removed after Andrew Watson brought it in and i'll fight equally as hard to stop it being brought in for next season as well.'' Even if it is introduced in a positive manner as i suggested in my post? I do agree with the principles of your argument in the context of the normal use of a tiered price plan. There is scope within the League's regulations whereby 4-6 matches a season can be classed as promotions thereby giving the opportunity to discount certain matches. I don't think it is right that the fans of say Oldham and L***s should have to pay a premium to watch a game at our stadium as opposed to fans of Crewe or Orient.
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by mallyb on Feb 12, 2009 13:01:09 GMT 1
As far as i'm concerned I go to watch Huddersfield Town. I don't care if we'd be playing Real Madrid or the Rose and Crown. I support my team and it's them I pay to watch, not the opposition. It is morally wrong to charge different levels of pricing dependant upon who the opposition are. I fought tooth and nail to get it removed after Andrew Watson brought it in and i'll fight equally as hard to stop it being brought in for next season as well. You are in the minority though. If we play Man U next year in a cup game it will be a sell out, if we play the rose and crown in the same competition the club will have to discount to get anybody to turn up. Simple supply and demand, there is more demand for some games than others and as a business not a cooperative then we need to make money. As for fleecing fans of other clubs, they will pay the same that Town fans turning up on the day pay. I think the fundamental problem is most fans want to see Town up at least one level of the ladder and competeing, some would rather football was vitually free run by a fans cooperative. If we want to be successful then we need to generate money to invest. Everywhere that supporters run the clubs, the clubs are going out of business or anchored to non league fooball. If you want that go and support a team that is non league do that don't turn Town into one. If Town make it to the Prem then some fans that have been with the club for years will be priced out of the game and some new fans will take their place, it's progress and it may not be fair or pleasant but we need to get away from the idea that the club can achieve our aspirations without cost. In Dean we have a chairman we all trust to spend wisely and move us forward.
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Post by Championship Problems on Feb 12, 2009 13:03:35 GMT 1
''It is morally wrong to charge different levels of pricing dependant upon who the opposition are. I fought tooth and nail to get it removed after Andrew Watson brought it in and i'll fight equally as hard to stop it being brought in for next season as well.'' Even if it is introduced in a positive manner as i suggested in my post? I do agree with the principles of your argument in the context of the normal use of a tiered price plan. There is scope within the League's regulations whereby 4-6 matches a season can be classed as promotions thereby giving the opportunity to discount certain matches. I don't think it is right that the fans of say Oldham and L***s should have to pay a premium to watch a game at our stadium as opposed to fans of Crewe or Orient. Does geography come into the factors amongst the decision of certain categorys? I would be happy for the club to charge oldham fans more than yeovil fans simply due to geography/expected numbers as long as Oldham fans weren't paying over the odds of the cost of a standard average L1 ticket price. I understand and agree with your arguments but i believe that there can be a positive way of introducing tiered pricing. If a positve approach is adhered to or not is the important issue to look into not in my opinion the broad principle of tiered prices.
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Post by kleverboy on Feb 12, 2009 14:58:23 GMT 1
As far as i'm concerned I go to watch Huddersfield Town. I don't care if we'd be playing Real Madrid or the Rose and Crown. I support my team and it's them I pay to watch, not the opposition. Don't want to be facetious here, but let's imagine Deano were to say 'Ok then... I'll charge you say twenty quid to watch Huddersfield Town, but some games I'm going to let you in for only fifteen!' What would be so wrong with that? It's just a different way of looking at it, I suppose... a glass half full than half empty way, maybe!
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Post by anniehtafc on Feb 12, 2009 15:01:08 GMT 1
As far as i'm concerned I go to watch Huddersfield Town. I don't care if we'd be playing Real Madrid or the Rose and Crown. I support my team and it's them I pay to watch, not the opposition. Don't want to be facetious here, but let's imagine Deano were to say 'Ok then... I'll charge you say twenty quid to watch Huddersfield Town, but some games I'm going to let you in for only fifteen!' What would be so wrong with that? It's just a different way of looking at it, I suppose... a glass half full than half empty way, maybe! I dont see anything wrong with that, but i'll be getting another season ticket next season if it starts with 2 ;D
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Post by Sapphire on Feb 12, 2009 15:11:37 GMT 1
[/quote] if we play the rose and crown in the same competition the club will have to discount to get anybody to turn up. [/quote]
They are a decent side.
Mind you with home advantage, we should sneak through.
Lets see how many of the 16,000 renew next year. I will.
Stop complaining and support the team. We may be watching Championship football.
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Post by Jayeff13 on Feb 12, 2009 15:27:19 GMT 1
I don't think it is right that the fans of say Oldham and L***s should have to pay a premium to watch a game at our stadium as opposed to fans of Crewe or Orient. Maybe it isn't right but why should you care about what Leeds or Oldham fans pay, we've been shafted by them in the past remember. Surely what's more important here is that Hoyle is maximising revenue for HTAFC. I couldn't care less where or how we get the money, just as long as it keeps coming and helps us get to where we want to be.
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Post by andydyson10 on Feb 12, 2009 15:47:26 GMT 1
I said i was not qualified to comment because i dont go and watch Town because i live in Thailand, but anybody can see that from a post and news about some amazing news and plans coming out of a meeting in Milnsbridge, the only thing a lot of people pick up on is the price of tickets. Moan Moan Moan. Have to say this is what makes Huddersfield what it is as well as all the absolutly wonderfull things.
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Post by ksne on Feb 12, 2009 16:38:48 GMT 1
Well so really the only contentious content of the meeting appears to be ?? the one concerning tiered prices? (I can`t see what the big secret thing was all about!) I`ve no problem with that lots of clubs do it and we`ve been on the receiving end of that.
We have had our season of £100 tickets and so whatever the price is next year there will be the usual ones bought from this household.
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Post by andyfcuk85 on Feb 12, 2009 16:51:03 GMT 1
I think the club will want to start making the club self sufficient ect..... IMO we have had our fair share... With the £100 season ticket off, now regardless of the price next season I will be renewing my season ticket. Surely teird pricing would also tempt people to buy a season tickett. Knowing that if they go to so many games say 5 games a season and £20 per game entry and season tickets are £50 (This is just as a example). I think the idea of teird pricing is purely for the floating fans ................ And mr hippy I see your comments regarding if this is re-introduced you will be asking the HTSA to oppose this - I take it HTSA will also put this to a vote amongst ALL HTSA members and go off a majority vote - Surly if you are going to oppose something on behalf of th fans you need the majority backing of them before putting a case forward to the club?
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Post by Rigodon on Feb 12, 2009 17:00:18 GMT 1
I think the club will want to start making the club self sufficient ect..... IMO we have had our fair share... With the £100 season ticket off, now regardless of the price next season I will be renewing my season ticket. Surely teird pricing would also tempt people to buy a season tickett. Knowing that if they go to so many games say 5 games a season and £20 per game entry and season tickets are £50 (This is just as a example). I think the idea of teird pricing is purely for the floating fans ................ And mr hippy I see your comments regarding if this is re-introduced you will be asking the HTSA to oppose this - I take it HTSA will also put this to a vote amongst ALL HTSA members and go off a majority vote - Surly if you are going to oppose something on behalf of th fans you need the majority backing of them before putting a case forward to the club? Not if it's anything like the ol' winners medals... Sorry! Would have thought that would have to be the case. So that's Mr Sheen and '70... any more votes?
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Post by henseventee on Feb 12, 2009 18:41:43 GMT 1
And mr hippy I see your comments regarding if this is re-introduced you will be asking the HTSA to oppose this - I take it HTSA will also put this to a vote amongst ALL HTSA members and go off a majority vote - Surly if you are going to oppose something on behalf of th fans you need the majority backing of them before putting a case forward to the club? My understanding is that HTSA aims to represent ALL Town fans, rather than just those with a majority viewpoint? I would guess that the MAJORITY of fans don't care one way or the other, because the majority of fans have season tickets because of the circumstances of moving grounds, and more recently excellent pricing schemes by the club. It still doesn't get away from the idea of tiered pricing being wrong though - just because, as season ticket holders, "we're alright Jack" and "who cares about fleecing Oldham or Leeds fans". Look at it more compassionately and altruistically, and I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that it's right and just to have a tiered pricing scheme (or indeed, buy 3 to ensure you get a ticket for an indemand game). I'm impressed with Polski's ability to take such an understanding viewpoint, particularly with where he quite vocally stood in the Oldham shenanigans of a couple of seasons back it would be easy to say, "yeah shaft them, tit for tat and all that". The thing is, going down this route sets a precedent at odds with Towns core values as a 'nice' club that tries to do the right things...research QPR vs Derby last season (or was it this season?) to see where this road ultimately leads to, it's not a righteous path.
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Post by Jayeff13 on Feb 12, 2009 19:50:23 GMT 1
And mr hippy I see your comments regarding if this is re-introduced you will be asking the HTSA to oppose this - I take it HTSA will also put this to a vote amongst ALL HTSA members and go off a majority vote - Surly if you are going to oppose something on behalf of th fans you need the majority backing of them before putting a case forward to the club? My understanding is that HTSA aims to represent ALL Town fans, rather than just those with a majority viewpoint? I would guess that the MAJORITY of fans don't care one way or the other, because the majority of fans have season tickets because of the circumstances of moving grounds, and more recently excellent pricing schemes by the club. It still doesn't get away from the idea of tiered pricing being wrong though - just because, as season ticket holders, "we're alright Jack" and "who cares about fleecing Oldham or Leeds fans". Look at it more compassionately and altruistically, and I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that it's right and just to have a tiered pricing scheme (or indeed, buy 3 to ensure you get a ticket for an indemand game). I'm impressed with Polski's ability to take such an understanding viewpoint, particularly with where he quite vocally stood in the Oldham shenanigans of a couple of seasons back it would be easy to say, "yeah shaft them, tit for tat and all that". The thing is, going down this route sets a precedent at odds with Towns core values as a 'nice' club that tries to do the right things...research QPR vs Derby last season (or was it this season?) to see where this road ultimately leads to, it's not a righteous path. Yawn, maybe it's about time we stop being a 'nice club' and start concentrating on ourselves, football's a dog-eat-dog business and all this taking a 'moral high ground' stuff has got us nowhere. All Hoyle wants is as many Town fans through the gate as possible to help our finances so if he wants to charge less for people to watch Town v Yeovil then let him do it. Whose to say he's not thinking about charging £13/14 for the least attractive games would that not help bring the floaters in? Clubs have been categorising games for years I really can't see what the big deal is! Like people have mentioned in goes on in all walks of life.
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Post by martin on Feb 12, 2009 19:51:14 GMT 1
Before the start of next season, DH will have 'donated' millions of pounds to the football team he supports.
The wages bill last season was £1.75 million For Stan Ternent it increased to £3.25 million Now it's probably £3.75 million By September 2009 say £4.5 million
At some point we the fans will have to help him!
With say 30 home matches per season, that's £150,000 income per match; or £9.37 from every one of 16,000 spectators, or say £281 per season ticket!
If half the attendance are children or OAPs on reduced admission prices, increase accordingly.
Then, what about all the other costs of running a professional football club?
If we get promotion to the Championship, the wage bill automatically increases by 20% but extra (higher quality) players will probably increase the bill by 50%.
Attendances may increase by 20%, but at 50% we've reached capacity for the stadium!
Perhaps we need to grade matches and have different costs for pay on the day customers!?!
It's a very difficult issue for Dean and the staff! We're just so grateful for Dean's support.
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Post by Sheps on Feb 12, 2009 20:12:21 GMT 1
With regardes to away fans, charge them what they charge us when we go to their place.
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Post by Polish Hippy on Feb 12, 2009 21:16:19 GMT 1
Yawn, maybe it's about time we stop being a 'nice club' and start concentrating on ourselves, football's a dog-eat-dog business and all this taking a 'moral high ground' stuff has got us nowhere. All Hoyle wants is as many Town fans through the gate as possible to help our finances so if he wants to charge less for people to watch Town v Yeovil then let him do it. Whose to say he's not thinking about charging £13/14 for the least attractive games would that not help bring the floaters in? Clubs have been categorising games for years I really can't see what the big deal is! Like people have mentioned in goes on in all walks of life. Maybe it's about time I stopped being so nice in my line of business then. I should introduce a £75 call out charge and charge another £75 for doing a 10 minute job. It's not illegal and you can argue about the morality until the cows come home. I wonder how much extra business that would bring in for me?
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Post by BradfordTerrier on Feb 12, 2009 21:23:43 GMT 1
Cant really compare the two Stan. Football is a totally different 'business' to just about anything else. Why not just wait and see what the tiered system is first before getting uptight about it. Chill out man!
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Post by Polish Hippy on Feb 12, 2009 21:40:44 GMT 1
What's wrong with being seen as a "nice club"? Look at the stick Crewe are getting on the board about their ticket prices for our match next week. Should I mention Oldham? ;D
I've already mentioned that there is scope within the League's pricing regulations that allow clubs to have 4-6 games a season as promotion games where prices can be discounted to attract more fans to those games. There is no need for a return to the incidious tiered pricing scheme.
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Post by andyfcuk85 on Feb 12, 2009 21:46:01 GMT 1
Yawn, maybe it's about time we stop being a 'nice club' and start concentrating on ourselves, football's a dog-eat-dog business and all this taking a 'moral high ground' stuff has got us nowhere. All Hoyle wants is as many Town fans through the gate as possible to help our finances so if he wants to charge less for people to watch Town v Yeovil then let him do it. Whose to say he's not thinking about charging £13/14 for the least attractive games would that not help bring the floaters in? Clubs have been categorising games for years I really can't see what the big deal is! Like people have mentioned in goes on in all walks of life. Maybe it's about time I stopped being so nice in my line of business then. I should introduce a £75 call out charge and charge another £75 for doing a 10 minute job. It's not illegal and you can argue about the morality until the cows come home. I wonder how much extra business that would bring in for me? I'm intrigued to know the answer to the question I asked before regarding you comments of getting your colleagues the oppose tierd oricing vigourosly. Will HTSA put it to the vote of ALL HTSA members??? or does the HTSA simply act on what the committee say?? Don't get me wrong I am all for the HTSA however I'm paying a membership along with all other Town fans who have committed to HTSA so I would like to know whether my view as a paying member along with fellow members will be able to vote in hands one way or the other Again I'm not against HTSA however I am slightly concerned with the comment you will be asking the HTSA to oppse vigorosly no matter what other peoples (Members) views are
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Post by Polish Hippy on Feb 12, 2009 21:57:49 GMT 1
I'm intrigued to know the answer to the question I asked before regarding you comments of getting your colleagues the oppose tierd oricing vigourosly. Will HTSA put it to the vote of ALL HTSA members??? or does the HTSA simply act on what the committee say?? Don't get me wrong I am all for the HTSA however I'm paying a membership along with all other Town fans who have committed to HTSA so I would like to know whether my view as a paying member along with fellow members will be able to vote in hands one way or the other Again I'm not against HTSA however I am slightly concerned with the comment you will be asking the HTSA to oppse vigorosly no matter what other peoples (Members) views are I think HTSA have been known to gauge the feelings of Town fans via DATM and fans meetings such as Patron's meetings and the Heavy Woollen Supporter's Club. Can you point out where exactly I said other member's views would be disregarded as I can't see it anywhere?
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Post by henseventee on Feb 12, 2009 22:04:38 GMT 1
Cant really compare the two Stan. Football is a totally different 'business' to just about anything else. Why not just wait and see what the tiered system is first before getting uptight about it. The difference of course being that football clubs have a monopoly market position they ritually abuse whilst Stan is competing in an open trade environment. There SHOULD be an independent regulatory body that mandates business behaviors using the enforcement powers that are in place in law for these blatantly illegal practices, just as there is in other areas where a dominant market position could be abused at the expense of the consumer. The club are wrong to introduce tiered pricing, even if it used 'down the way' to reduce prices.
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Post by andyfcuk85 on Feb 12, 2009 22:24:13 GMT 1
I'm intrigued to know the answer to the question I asked before regarding you comments of getting your colleagues the oppose tierd oricing vigourosly. Will HTSA put it to the vote of ALL HTSA members??? or does the HTSA simply act on what the committee say?? Don't get me wrong I am all for the HTSA however I'm paying a membership along with all other Town fans who have committed to HTSA so I would like to know whether my view as a paying member along with fellow members will be able to vote in hands one way or the other Again I'm not against HTSA however I am slightly concerned with the comment you will be asking the HTSA to oppse vigorosly no matter what other peoples (Members) views are I think HTSA have been known to gauge the feelings of Town fans via DATM and fans meetings such as Patron's meetings and the Heavy Woollen Supporter's Club. Can you point out where exactly I said other member's views would be disregarded as I can't see it anywhere? I never said you did - which is why I asked for clarification I think you need too take a chill pill and relax matey!!!
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Post by Rigodon on Feb 12, 2009 22:49:09 GMT 1
Cant really compare the two Stan. Football is a totally different 'business' to just about anything else. Why not just wait and see what the tiered system is first before getting uptight about it. The difference of course being that football clubs have a monopoly market position they ritually abuse whilst Stan is competing in an open trade environment. There SHOULD be an independent regulatory body that mandates business behaviors using the enforcement powers that are in place in law for these blatantly illegal practices, just as there is in other areas where a dominant market position could be abused at the expense of the consumer. The club are wrong to introduce tiered pricing, even if it used 'down the way' to reduce prices. "open trade enviroment" - one where you are free to choose what you buy? There are loads of other football clubs in the area. There is such a level of competition that the likes of Wigan and Man City, clubs in far more lucrative yet cut throat positions, have felt the need to advertise on NATIONAL radio. Surely the very fact clubs are dying for "fans" is that there very much is am "open trade enviroment". The argument really doesn't need the suggestion of an "independant regulatory body" as this is quite a simple matter. If you don't like it, buy your football elsewhere. It's as much about getting punters through the door as rewarding the loyal fan these days. How many people do you think would have bought season tickets had they not cost as little as £100? Surely it boils down to maths. I don't expect Dean to be a sugar daddy. Your critical of DH at times n7t, yet this is a clear sign of him maximising one of the main revenue streams which might help the aim of "stability". Mr polish brian was right your example was very unfair! ;D And I 100% agree with Martin to be fair.. There should be a poll. Majority does rule, surely? Who knows what the season ticket prices are going to be anyway!
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Post by henseventee on Feb 13, 2009 0:21:40 GMT 1
Oh ok, you've convinced me, I agree with tiered pricing after all.
I was never really that bothered in the first place, but now I've seen the light I see its a cracking concept.
Yes, I am critical of DH at the times he deserves it, and I equally recognize the positives he brings to the club - why is that a bad thing? I'm pretty sure he doesn't surround himself with yes-men, and I'd hope we don't equally become a club of 'yes-fans' (whatever they may be!?).
PS - Season tickets will be £225 in Kilner Bank next season. Nailed on. 100%. (ahem).
PPS - Polish, can you give me a quote for knocking a hole in my wall and fitting an outside tap please - you can give me a price without visiting??
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