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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 2, 2009 15:41:23 GMT 1
I stopped betting on Town a while back when Abotts mazy run back towards his own goal at Cheltenham cost me nearly £500 !! Polish git ;D If Clark can bring in a better player than any of the current back 4, then great, but if he can't, or like me doesn't see the reason to, then I'm not in the least bit worried they aren't a good enough back 4. Similarly with the midfield. Ask yourself this Floyds- If Town ( same keepers, defence and midfield) had had Fryatt and Howard as our front 2 this season, where would we be in the table now? I'd be amazed if it was any lower than 1st. If Leicester, ( same keepers, defenders and midfield) had had Parker and jevons up front this season where would they be now? My guess would be something like 8th - 10th. Because they wouldn't have scored anywhere near as many goals, and as a result got a lot less points. Maybe there'd be Leicester fans saying their defence and midfield all need replacing cos they aren't good enough? And clearly they'd be as wrong as you are I
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Post by Floyds on Mar 2, 2009 17:52:42 GMT 1
haha - unbelievable ;D
i admire your optimism if nothing else
nothing more to say really is there? except role on next season and watch us go on 22 game unbeaten runs with the addition of 2 strikers!
living in dreamland there i think unfortunately but hope i am proved wrong......! ;D
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Mar 2, 2009 21:33:34 GMT 1
Wouldnt say we have improved dramatically - considering we have spent close to £1m and signed 4 or 5 players. Our away form under LC is terrible. And his failure to address the striking situation worrying. We definitely need the players detailed earlier although i would add another centre back as well. If this is a really poor league - god knows what that says about us having floundered in midtable for the majority of our 4(?) seasons back here. Of course we've dramatically improved - when Stan started shopping for his xmas dinner we were in the relegation fighting positions, now we still mathematically have a play-off chance. Also the football, at least at home, is excellent to watch. The good Captain is talking a lot of sense.
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 3, 2009 2:24:21 GMT 1
Its not about going on 22 game unbeaten runs though. Its only about turning games like last saturday, and Oldham, Orient, Hartlepool, Yeovil at home, etc etc etc etc etc into 3 points instead of 1 or 0. Games when we've totally dominated the bulk of the play and created countless chances, but have failed to score because our strikers are so bloody hopeless. Never mind all the more even games we would have got better results in by having someone who can take a chance when one comes along.
I don't even think it's being optimistic! Its there in game after game as obvious as it could be. With anything like a decent forward or two this season we would be challenging Leicester for top spot now. I don't get why you think we wouldn't be? Our strikers have scored 6 goals BETWEEN THEM FFS! It's not like we don't create chances. We generally create bucket loads in most games. If our strikers had scored a decent amount for a team that creates so many chances, lets say a reasonable number would be 30 between them, then thats an extra TWENTY-FOUR goals! You don't think an extra 24 goals would have got us a boat load more points?
Even just since the January window opened we have dropped so many points in games where we were clearly the dominant side and created more than enough chances to win comfortably. Oldham (H) 2 points dropped Northampton (A) 2 more Yeovil (A) 1 more Hartlepool (H) 2 more Stockport (A) 2more
Thats NINE points chucked away in games just since January through having NOTHING up front. We'd be level on points with 4th place Oldham with 2 games in hand. Thats just in the games since January!
I can't understand why you can't see where the problem is when its so obvious. The rest of the team is fine, plenty good enough. Sure it needs some of the chaff weeding out and replacing with a bit more competition but in general its fine. The reason we are where we are, and not challenging for an automatic spot, is that pretty much all season, we have had NOTHING up front. Simple as that.
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Post by Floyds on Mar 3, 2009 9:09:42 GMT 1
Ok well i went to Carlisle (0-3), Leicester (2-4) Crewe (1-3) and Stockport (1-1) and the corresponding games against Carlisle and Crewe last year - and IMO - we have not "dramatically improved"
Especially considering the money we have spent and the wage bill we now have
If you reckon P6 D2 L4 away from home is a dramatic improvement then there really isnt a great deal more to say.
Captain - how many times?
I know that is the main reason why we have dropped points and struggled - read any of my previous posts - it is like trying to convince Jesus there is a god or something!
What i am saying is - i dont think our back four as it stands at the moment is strong or consistent enough to get us promoted.
Do you not go to away games?
Christ - i can think of so many in recent years that we have conceded 3 and 4 to rubbish teams like Hartlepool and Walsall.
Anyway - why dont you take me up on my bet?
Say - £500 - the loser donates to B&W foundation
If we have that back four (and central midfield 2) we wont get promoted next season
No point in continuing an argument saying "if we did this and if we had that...."
Put your money where your mouth is int it? ;D
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 3, 2009 10:26:55 GMT 1
How many times? I dunno. How many will it take before you understand that with anything like 2 decent strikers we would have a lot more points than we have and be up near the top of this division?? If we were ,say, 2nd or 3rd, would you still be claiming our back 4 and midfield aren't good enough to go up? Because thats where we'd be with 2 or even 1 prolific striker! Well surely they WOULD be good enough, because we would be 2nd or 3rd! Thats the point Im making that you can't seem to get. Yes I know we have the odd bad game and yes,I go to a few aways but not as many as I'd like to. Do you go to many home games? Yeovil, bristol R, Oldham, orient, Hartlepool . 5 games off the top of my head where we totally dominated, created chance after chance after chance and threw away 11 points. Do you accept with a good striker or two we'd have won those 5 games ( probably easily) ?? Just one player capable of putting in just 1 chnace out of the steady flow we created in each game? SAME BACK 4, SAME CENTRE MIDFIELD 2, just 11 more points than we have and 4th place in the league, with a game in hand on Peterbro a point above us?? Thats just those 5 games, there are PLENTY more! Would you be on here saying we need a new back 4 and centre midfield to stand any chance of going up if we'd have won those games and were potentially 3rd in the table? I doubt it as you'd look a bit daft if you did. Once again, the only problem is the strikers ( with their 6 goals combined) not the midfield or defence! Ive told you, betting isn't my bag anymore. I don't need to gamble to know Im right and youre wrong.
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Post by jimsteruk on Mar 3, 2009 10:47:45 GMT 1
How many times? I dunno. How many will it take before you understand that with anything like 2 decent strikers we would have a lot more points than we have and be up near the top of this division?? If we were ,say, 2nd or 3rd, would you still be claiming our back 4 and midfield aren't good enough to go up? Because thats where we'd be with 2 or even 1 prolific striker! Well surely they WOULD be good enough, because we would be 2nd or 3rd! Thats the point Im making that you can't seem to get. Yes I know we have the odd bad game and yes,I go to a few aways but not as many as I'd like to. Do you go to many home games? Yeovil, bristol R, Oldham, orient, Hartlepool . 5 games off the top of my head where we totally dominated, created chance after chance after chance and threw away 11 points. Do you accept with a good striker or two we'd have won those 5 games ( probably easily) ?? Just one player capable of putting in just 1 chnace out of the steady flow we created in each game? SAME BACK 4, SAME CENTRE MIDFIELD 2, just 11 more points than we have and 4th place in the league, with a game in hand on Peterbro a point above us?? Thats just those 5 games, there are PLENTY more! Would you be on here saying we need a new back 4 and centre midfield to stand any chance of going up if we'd have won those games and were potentially 3rd in the table? I doubt it as you'd look a bit daft if you did. Once again, the only problem is the strikers ( with their 6 goals combined) not the midfield or defence! Ive told you, betting isn't my bag anymore. I don't need to gamble to know Im right and youre wrong. Here here, well said!!!
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Post by Floyds on Mar 3, 2009 11:14:47 GMT 1
Going round in circles arent we? ;D
It is all about opinions - you have yours and i have mine.
We will only know who is right (or wrong) next season if we sign 2 strikers and leave the rest of the team unchanged
Using your argument (just as an illustration)
Do you accept that with am entirely different back four and the same strikers we would have:
Beaten Crewe 1-0 Beaten Leicester 2-0 Beaten Stockport 1-0 Beaten Hartlepool 2-0
etc etc
If we had kept solid and not conceded goals we would be10 points better off and be 2nd in the league or whatver
It is impossible to say who many points we would have, games we would have won, position in the league - when you look at things retrospectively and say "if we had only done X and Y"
If....."the Serbian Black Hand group didnt assiisnate Archduke Franz Ferdinand WW1 wouldnt have happended"
If "reparations set by the allies hadnt been so high Hitler wouldnt have come to power and WW2 wouldnt have happened"
etc etc
Who knows? The entire course of history would be changed!
Think you are using simplistic assumptions Captain.
But yeah - we would have got more points and be higher in the league - i agree 100% ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 3, 2009 11:46:56 GMT 1
Yeah ok, I know its all ifs and buts, I accept your point. But the difference between our defence not conceding to get us more points and our strikers not scoring to get us more points is an extreme one. Our defence isn't noticably bad or worse than our rivals at the top end of the table, especially taking into account the lousy first 3 months of the season we had under Turnip. For example we've only conceded 2 or 3 more than Peterbrough in 3rd place.
Our strikers on the other hand are BY FAR the worse in the division.
Cheltenham ,adrift at the foot of the table, have THREE strikers who have scored more than any of our current lot! Our strikers have scored in 2 out of the last NINETEEN games! With parker gone we now have a combined total of 4 goals from all our available strikers and those like Roberts and cads when playing up top. All our strikers, including Dickinson and beckett have scored EIGHT goals from open play in THIRTY-SEVEN league and cup games this season! I doubt there is a professional club on the planet with a worse striker record as we have!
Yet despite this we are only 7 points off the play off places with a game in hand!! That to me is proof of just how tremendously well our defence and midfield have done and rather than looking to replace them, we should be thanking our lucky stars we are so strong in those areas because with a striker record like that we would be definate relegation fodder had they not been.
Don't think thats being simplistic mate. To me it couldn't be more obvious why we are where we are and not where we'd like to be.
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Post by morrisraspass on Mar 3, 2009 11:59:03 GMT 1
Captain, I'm with you all the way. The strikers are the root of all our problems this season, not the defence. We'd be second or third with addition of two decent forwards. The stats you posted earlier:
Leicester- Fryatt 22, Howard 10 Scunny - Hooper 19, Hayes 11 Oldham- Hughes 16 Mk Dongs- Wilbraham 12, Leven 10 Peterbro- Mackail-Smith 18, McLean 16 Leeds- Beckford 18
Town- Parker 2, Jevons 2, Booth 2, Lucas 0, Cads 0, Roberts ( whilst up front) 0
You just have keep pasting that into the quick reply box – it says everything.
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Post by Floyds on Mar 3, 2009 12:03:22 GMT 1
aye - fair enough lets hope we sort it out for next season anyway then ;D im not debating where we may or may not have been this season - i am talking about next season's chances and i just feel as though we need to be a bit more solid on the road especially - if we are serious about promotion seems like common sense to me after so many bad defeats in recent seasons away from home - but maybe it isnt?
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Post by sapphireblue on Mar 3, 2009 12:25:38 GMT 1
Also. With, IMO, a better strikeforce, our defence would have conceded fewer goals due to less frequent pressure, wheras with a better defence I don't think our strikeforce would have scored any more than they have.
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ram
Andy Booth Terrier
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Posts: 3,496
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Post by ram on Mar 3, 2009 12:54:35 GMT 1
30 points chucked away while in a winning position! Sounds to me like both Attack AND Defence are to blame here..Lets see how they do tonight...
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Post by TerrierArmy on Mar 3, 2009 12:56:53 GMT 1
aye - fair enough lets hope we sort it out for next season anyway then ;D im not debating where we may or may not have been this season - i am talking about next season's chances and i just feel as though we need to be a bit more solid on the road especially - if we are serious about promotion seems like common sense to me after so many bad defeats in recent seasons away from home - but maybe it isnt? I remember reading on barmy army - that Ian Greaves sorted out the away problems not with new players but telling the players that the game and rules are exactly the same, the ball is the same and basically it's in ones head. I understand the concerns, but we can play the same way away as we do at home, it's the belief that is needed! It worked quite well for Ian Greaves so why not Clark and Black !
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