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Post by thomo on May 31, 2011 13:30:56 GMT 1
When it really counted our so called experienced players were found wanting. Still smarting on how we collapsed on Sunday - I though we were made of stronger stuff but how wrong was I - KK was a big part in this. 27 unbeaten or not, promotion will come down to these big games and we fell so far short it was untrue. For that reason we need better quality than an ageing KK for next year. McCann must be on a fifth of what KK gets paid but I would say he is three times the player. Time for Clark to spend money more wisely I think.
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Guthlac
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Post by Guthlac on May 31, 2011 13:46:56 GMT 1
Some of KK passing of late has been absolutely horrific - if we want to be champions next season thats the kind of attribute we could do without. We need an excellent midfielder next season.
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fredcarno
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Post by fredcarno on May 31, 2011 14:07:43 GMT 1
Spot on Thomo. Surely our illustrious backroom team can go out and find a player of Mcann's ilk for a hell of a lot less than what we would have to pay Kilbane. Easiest option in the world when you've a chairman like ours is just to go out and bring a 'name' in, time for much vaunted scouting network and extensive contact list to throw us something decent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 14:36:52 GMT 1
If Atkinson is as good as Clarky says then I think next season could be his year. An inspirational player like Johnson alongside would render KK a waste of money so I think we may have seen the last of him.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 14:55:44 GMT 1
Don't think we'll be signing Johnson or Kilbane sadly.
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Post by ssh on May 31, 2011 16:04:04 GMT 1
Don't think we'll be signing Johnson or Kilbane sadly. I've thought for months that Johnson was our most nailed on signing for ages, why do you think he won't be coming? I think we'll have spoken to Kilbane too. If we can negotiate his wage down, I'd have him in a flash. A midfield three with Kilbane and Johnson in it would have satisfied me in the Championship.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 16:17:52 GMT 1
Brian Howard from Reading would be someone I would make an enquiry about - he's a very good player, can pass, score goals and get up and down. Stuggled to establish himself at Reading.
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Post by Porrohman on May 31, 2011 16:34:53 GMT 1
I'd wondered about DJ and Pelts sitting in front of the back 4,Scotty in front of them and 3 up front preferably Pilks,Wardy(wont happen I know)and A N Other(probably Novak out of the forwards we have cos Rhodes is too slow and weak to play up on his own). With the option to go to 442 if needed
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cheesyhtfc
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Post by cheesyhtfc on May 31, 2011 16:41:01 GMT 1
Kilbane's experience in the dressing room probably helped the younger lads, so if he was thinking about retiring I'd give him a player/coach role (on massively reduced wages). But I wouldn't want him to be part of a first choice midfield two. His passing was very sloppy (which shocked me after the Sheff Wednesday match), he had a tendencey to dive in (hence the nutmegs) and and he wasn't the midfield general that we were expecting. Did ok for us but not what we need for next season imo
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cj01
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Post by cj01 on May 31, 2011 16:58:48 GMT 1
I too don't think KK is the answer. Whatever influence he may have by his presence/experience/advice, the fact remains that he's just not good enough on the ball. I think Arfield or Joey would be good enough in midfield IF they could produce their best form consistently - but that seems unlikely.
I don't know enough about other teams' players to suggest who we should try and get. What I do feel is that getting an effective midfield is the answer to our problems. As someone said in the Jordan Rhodes thread, 3 in midfield, which has served us so well, does not suit our leading scorer.
So we definitely need to get the midfield sorted even if we do nothing else. The number of clean sheets we kept (albeit with the 5 man midfield protection) shows that we can defend alright with what we've got if we have to, although it would be nice to have a fast CB to partner Cap'n Clarke.
I haven't seen anything to suggest that keeping even an in form Lee would help us if you're wanting a goal scorer rather than hold up player, so I'd like to see him go. Whether Rhodes and Novak will be enough in addition to Simpson and Spencer when we are playing two up front, I don't know. Two up front will certainly suit JR and LN much better and I think they'll both score more goals in such a formation. To have another (new) striker would be nice but the two up front idea falls unless we get midfield so we can play 4 there not 5.
Let's see if Atkinson is good as LC seems to think he is, and as others have said, this season in League 1 might be the ideal time to give him a good trial, with us. The rest will be down to how much DH feels has to be cut off the wages bill, and how good our still expanding scouting system is in finding replacements. Watch this space, hey?! :udders:
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Post by terrier1987cas on May 31, 2011 17:03:40 GMT 1
If we're going to build a team around our top striker we need to first of all make sure he can play longer than 60 minutes. No point building a team around someone who can't complete a match.
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Post by huddy on May 31, 2011 17:05:11 GMT 1
Johnson was the better player but we got the results with Kilbane in the team therefore I hope we sign Kilbane. Keep same team together maybe add a centre back and a goalscorer who can play up top as a lone striker.
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Post by rantinray on May 31, 2011 17:41:54 GMT 1
When it really counted our so called experienced players were found wanting. Still smarting on how we collapsed on Sunday - I though we were made of stronger stuff but how wrong was I - KK was a big part in this. 27 unbeaten or not, promotion will come down to these big games and we fell so far short it was untrue. For that reason we need better quality than an ageing KK for next year. McCann must be on a fifth of what KK gets paid but I would say he is three times the player. Time for Clark to spend money more wisely I think. The oppositions movement and pace were too good for us on Sunday. We have always been susceptible to the quicker teams. That is why when we lump the ball forwards it comes back in spades. This is the reason behind the 5 across the middle, to try and negate their passing game. Well, as we all know it did not work for us. We have this failing of not picking lose men up and also not going with the runner. We leave players on their own much to our cost.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 31, 2011 17:58:14 GMT 1
Reasonably decent when we don't have the ball, but very poor when we do. I certainly wouldn't sign him for the kind of money hes on. Hope we can find better and sure we will.
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Post by thrice on May 31, 2011 18:04:42 GMT 1
If we had gone up it might have been different but in league one again next year, he would simply be too expensive & too old to accomodate.
Thanks for your efforts but it is time to look elsewhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 21:42:59 GMT 1
KK? Not for me, I'm afraid.
I grew to admire his work rate, but his distribution is God awful, and it won't get any better. Thought he was sometimes a liability in the latter stages of the campaign. And it's not as if you can say his experience pushed us over the line. Same with Gudjonsson... in the final reckoning, seeing as we failed to get promotion, then neither signing came off.
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Post by terry on May 31, 2011 21:48:19 GMT 1
He started really well, remember THAT tackle against Wednesday? THAT run and goal against Walsall? THOSE assists against Carlisle? He just seemed to get worse. Maybe he was burnt out cos he never got a rest. Either way I think we should do better, he'd be okay if he was about 31 but he's near retirement now and on big bucks that I'd rather spend on Johnson and a new striker.
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Chicken George
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Post by Chicken George on May 31, 2011 22:02:12 GMT 1
sorry but couldnt disgree more with the orginal poster. Time after time after time Kilbane has the balls and looses it, its cost us possesion, goals, ended attacks and at times his decsion making has being woeful. I thought personally he was awful for all 3 play off games, very very lucky to stay on this pitch iin the semi. Considering the reported huge wage he was on and the number of caps he had, overall I was very with him. Im sure peeps with disagree and thats fine but thats my opinion and he is NOT a player I would openly wish to blow a huge chunk of next years wage budget on ta
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 22:02:53 GMT 1
Don't think we'll be signing Johnson or Kilbane sadly. I've thought for months that Johnson was our most nailed on signing for ages, why do you think he won't be coming? I think we'll have spoken to Kilbane too. If we can negotiate his wage down, I'd have him in a flash. A midfield three with Kilbane and Johnson in it would have satisfied me in the Championship. Nailed on if we'd gone up - unlikely now. You never know though...plymouth need him off the wage bill big time...but he wont want lg1 wages off us
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 23:15:43 GMT 1
I've thought for months that Johnson was our most nailed on signing for ages, why do you think he won't be coming? I think we'll have spoken to Kilbane too. If we can negotiate his wage down, I'd have him in a flash. A midfield three with Kilbane and Johnson in it would have satisfied me in the Championship. Nailed on if we'd gone up - unlikely now. You never know though...plymouth need him off the wage bill big time...but he wont want lg1 wages off us If we do get Johnson i'm sure he'll be on higher than average L1 wages, as are many of our players
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marshian
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Post by marshian on Jun 1, 2011 13:23:44 GMT 1
I would be looking to cut down on wages as well.
I know the collective team performance fell short on Sunday and we can argue till next season about 1 up front or 2 up front but Deano, we fans (and LC to a certain extent) were let down by certain experienced players on (allegedly) a lot of money.
It always brasses me off when players in a relegated team, or a team who fails to get promotion can't wait to leave when it is THEY who have basically fallen short. But that's life for you.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jun 1, 2011 15:44:20 GMT 1
Whilst it cant be argued that DJ was a more consistant performer than KK. I am in no doubt that the bigger inflential player of the 2 is Kilbane. For all DJ's consistancy KK had a far greater influence on the rest of the team constantly geeing them up and talking which IIRC wasn't a big part of DJ's game.
I am surprised that so many are ready to rule him out so quickly considering he was never on the losing side for Town in a 'league' game.
I don't think we'll be in bad shape if we able to sign both, we always want better players and we all know that certain signings don't always work out as planned. e.g.
Kay - not a patch on his Tranmere dominant displays. Arfield - Early promise but stagnated or even regressed last year. Gudjonsson - only flashes of the quality we'd hoped for. Lee - a very pale imitation of Steve Howard. Naysmith - Painfully slow replacement for Williams.
I for one am hoping for a better contribution from this summer's signings
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Chicken George
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Post by Chicken George on Jun 1, 2011 17:37:52 GMT 1
Id rather us sign Kevin Webster than Kevin Kilbane in the summer!
Expensive backwards step - We need a McCann type player who controlled Peterboroughs midfield
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fredcarno
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Post by fredcarno on Jun 1, 2011 18:32:15 GMT 1
Totally agree very easy and expensive option Kilbane would be. How's about a bit of leftfield thinking for a change someone with a bit of energy and creativity. Cant see a midfield of Johnson and Kilbane setting the world on fire, yet again we would fail to breakdown sides who pack the midfield.
If the manager was expecting the announcement we were after these two to excite the fans or make a statement of intent I think he's mistaken. If our transfer budget is going to be spent like this I'm already concerned about our prospect for the upcoming season.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jun 1, 2011 20:03:18 GMT 1
Id rather us sign Kevin Webster than Kevin Kilbane in the summer! Expensive backwards step - We need a McCann type player who controlled Peterboroughs midfield This is a definition of a knee jerk reaction - we lose one match in 28 that was a winner takes all game and we naturally want the man of that match in our team. If, just if, Danny Ward's shot had gone in and we had beaten Peterborough then I am quite certain that you would not have posted this. If McCann was a consistant performer then they would have finished higher than 4th and gained automatic - most Peterborough fans were bemoaning their goals conceded as the reason they didnt go up automatically a result of their lack of a defensive midfield perhaps?
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Post by popterriertastic on Jun 1, 2011 20:12:26 GMT 1
Kilbane is a tricky one. Like everyone else I've seen his form dip in April and May... before then, he wasn't spectacular either. BUT he has played in a key position in a record winning run and we've played for the most part, winning football. Note this isn't the same as attractive football.
I think we can afford Johnson OR Kilbane, not the 2 together. My vote is for Johnson as he makes less mistakes
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Post by ssh on Jun 1, 2011 20:15:23 GMT 1
Id rather us sign Kevin Webster than Kevin Kilbane in the summer! Expensive backwards step - We need a McCann type player who controlled Peterboroughs midfield What did McCann do in open play on Sunday?
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Post by swam4mwg on Jun 1, 2011 22:20:42 GMT 1
I would love us to get a fit Johnson back at Town. Not really bothered about Kilbane. He looked a world beater when he first came, but was woeful in recent weeks.
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