Clark or Grayson?

[mallyb]

Apr 17, 2012 21:13:15 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

Apr 17, 2012 13:39:04 GMT 1 mallyb said:

The players you mention were already established first team players when Grayson arrived. No signing or development to do. Leeds budget was bigger in 2010 than ours is now so that dispels a myth floating round here. He made the play-off finals first year losing to Donnie rovers then failed in the semis the next year against millwall and was doing worse this year than last year in the Championship.

Not what Ive heard... Ours is significantly higher than the figure already mentioned in this thread..

Excellant, more unsubstantiated rumour that will be taken as absolute truth by the Clark haters. Then in a few months the figures will be produced and we will be able to dispell another myth like we have with Grayson having no money at Leeds.

[rory]

Apr 17, 2012 23:32:02 GMT 1 3 pipe problem said:

Apr 17, 2012 23:27:17 GMT 1 bigfatmonkey said:

Wow. Just seen this poll and I am gobsmacked at the result.

A proportion of our fanbase aren't very bright unfortunately, fed on rumour, bile and ignorance. Symptomatic of today's society I'm afraid.

I wouldn't worry about it; civilisation's been all downhill since the fall of Rome.

[Captainslapper]

Apr 18, 2012 0:57:36 GMT 1 mallyb said:

Apr 17, 2012 21:13:15 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

Not what Ive heard... Ours is significantly higher than the figure already mentioned in this thread..

Excellant, more unsubstantiated rumour that will be taken as absolute truth by the Clark haters. Then in a few months the figures will be produced and we will be able to dispell another myth like we have with Grayson having no money at Leeds.

Isn't your statement that our budget was this and that also an unsubstantiated rumour that you are expecting to be taken as absolute truth?
Or are you a HTFC director or our accountant?

Seems the 2 budgets were very comparable to me. One manager had 3 attempts to get his team out of L1 and failed and looked, in all likelihood to be heading for a 4th failure.

The other manager eventually took his club up and had them on the fringes of the play-offs in the division above.

Whatever we do under Grayson, I really don't understand this Clark love in.
Despite every advantage he could hope for and enormous patience by his boss, he was a failure.

[jimharrogate]

It has to Grayson as:

1/ Clark is history
2/ Grayson got the job
3/ Our votes don't count
4/ We don't have the money to argue

I never disliked Clark in particular as he gave it a go but he should have gone at 90 minutes after OT then we might have done better this time round.
We have to give Grayson a chance as his past record is pretty good.

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 8:18:51 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 18, 2012 0:57:36 GMT 1 mallyb said:

Excellant, more unsubstantiated rumour that will be taken as absolute truth by the Clark haters. Then in a few months the figures will be produced and we will be able to dispell another myth like we have with Grayson having no money at Leeds.

Isn't your statement that our budget was this and that also an unsubstantiated rumour that you are expecting to be taken as absolute truth?
Or are you a HTFC director or our accountant?

Seems the 2 budgets were very comparable to me. One manager had 3 attempts to get his team out of L1 and failed and looked, in all likelihood to be heading for a 4th failure.

The other manager eventually took his club up and had them on the fringes of the play-offs in the division above.

Whatever we do under Grayson, I really don't understand this Clark love in.
Despite every advantage he could hope for and enormous patience by his boss, he was a failure.

Our budget last year was almost £1million less than Leeds budget from 2 years ago and our budget has been going up year on year according to published figures and statements from the Club. So not the 'I have heard from a reliable ' nonsense that seems to be the bread and butter of the Clark haters.

If we are comparing records Clark improved year on year and the points hauls so far this season when he was sacked was in-line to be an improvement again. Grayson took a team that should have won promotion the year before if not for the points deduction (the manager he replaced was not sacked just took another job), and made the play-off final. He then spent in the summer and made the play-off semi final. Now in the interests of balance using language we use for Clark that is 2 seasons of failure!! Worse failure than Clark as he achieved less each year.

I was disappointed with Clark this year and thought we should have been challenging Charlton all the way but also saw no advantage in getting rid before the season ends. I still believe he was our best chance this season once we were so far into the season. Grayson is not the manager I would have picked and his performance so far have not changed that opinion one bit. I hope I am proved wrong, but I don't see his record as being that great like some on here seem to.

[Offtopic]

Apr 18, 2012 9:06:33 GMT 1 mallyb said:

Apr 18, 2012 8:18:51 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Isn't your statement that our budget was this and that also an unsubstantiated rumour that you are expecting to be taken as absolute truth?
Or are you a HTFC director or our accountant?

Seems the 2 budgets were very comparable to me. One manager had 3 attempts to get his team out of L1 and failed and looked, in all likelihood to be heading for a 4th failure.

The other manager eventually took his club up and had them on the fringes of the play-offs in the division above.

Whatever we do under Grayson, I really don't understand this Clark love in.
Despite every advantage he could hope for and enormous patience by his boss, he was a failure.

Our budget last year was almost £1million less than Leeds budget from 2 years ago and our budget has been going up year on year according to published figures and statements from the Club. So not the 'I have heard from a reliable ' nonsense that seems to be the bread and butter of the Clark haters.

If we are comparing records Clark improved year on year and the points hauls so far this season when he was sacked was in-line to be an improvement again. Grayson took a team that should have won promotion the year before if not for the points deduction (the manager he replaced was not sacked just took another job), and made the play-off final. He then spent in the summer and made the play-off semi final. Now in the interests of balance using language we use for Clark that is 2 seasons of failure!! Worse failure than Clark as he achieved less each year.

I was disappointed with Clark this year and thought we should have been challenging Charlton all the way but also saw no advantage in getting rid before the season ends. I still believe he was our best chance this season once we were so far into the season. Grayson is not the manager I would have picked and his performance so far have not changed that opinion one bit. I hope I am proved wrong, but I don't see his record as being that great like some on here seem to.

what are you talking about? His first game was boxing day 2008, they were 9th at the time. He took them to a 4th place finish and they lost in the play offs. Not a bad turnaround in 5 months

Then the next season, in his FIRST FULL season, he took them to automatic promotion. Then had them up around the play offs in the championship in 2010/11, 2011/12.

Read up first before you start talking shite

[Offtopic]

Then add in the fact that his maximum transfer fee spent was about 300k despite receiving some big fees for players sold during his time there and you start to appreciate it wasn't as simpe a job as you make out. The players he was allowed to spend money on were mainly good signings too, the likes of Mccormack, Gradel, Clayton

[HuddsTerrier]

Yet it’s the so called “Clark Haters” coming up with “unsubstantiated rumour that will be taken as absolute truth “

Okay we all agree Grayson and Clark got their jobs in December 2008

Leeds went up 09/10 season, here’s the league table - www.soccerbase.com/tournaments/tournament.sd?tourn_id=5

Equals promotion in Graysons first full season, 18 months after getting the job. Clark had twice as long, no promotion. Fact

Next no evidence to support that Town’s bill was lower than Leeds £7.7m in 2010. Dean Hoyle revealed a couple of months ago

“SPENDING of £7.29m on building a squad to challenge for promotion led to Huddersfield Town making a loss of £4.1m last year (2011).”

www.examiner.co.uk/huddersfield-town-fc/huddersfield-town-news/2012/02/20/chairman-dean-hoyle-remains-committed-to-funding-huddersfield-town-spending-depending-on-promotion-as-accounts-reveal-4-1m-loss-86081-30363820/

As I say throw in the promotion bonuses and the budgets seem similar

Even if Grayson had more in 2010, Clark had the same in 2011 and failed.

You ignore the point that Grayson got Blackpool promoted on what everyone agrees will be smaller budget than Towns

Sorry if Clark lovers don’t like those facts but they are facts as reported

I look forward to hearing further “unsubstantiated rumour that will be taken as absolute truth” to explain how these points are wrong! Maybe, despite all the evidence to contrary I miss the points because I’m not “very bright, fed on rumour, bile and ignorance”

[CaptainHart]

Apr 18, 2012 9:06:33 GMT 1 mallyb said:

If we are comparing records Clark improved year on year and the points hauls so far this season when he was sacked was in-line to be an improvement again.

When he was sacked we had 55 points from 30 games which gives a season total of 84/85 points: not an improvement.

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 10:56:25 GMT 1 CaptainHart said:

Apr 18, 2012 9:06:33 GMT 1 mallyb said:

If we are comparing records Clark improved year on year and the points hauls so far this season when he was sacked was in-line to be an improvement again.

When he was sacked we had 55 points from 30 games which gives a season total of 84/85 points: not an improvement.

After 30 games the previous season we had 51 points. An improvement I think.

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 10:39:13 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

Yet it’s the so called “Clark Haters” coming up with “unsubstantiated rumour that will be taken as absolute truth “

Okay we all agree Grayson and Clark got their jobs in December 2008

Leeds went up 09/10 season, here’s the league table - www.soccerbase.com/tournaments/tournament.sd?tourn_id=5

Equals promotion in Graysons first full season, 18 months after getting the job. Clark had twice as long, no promotion. Fact

Next no evidence to support that Town’s bill was lower than Leeds £7.7m in 2010. Dean Hoyle revealed a couple of months ago

“SPENDING of £7.29m on building a squad to challenge for promotion led to Huddersfield Town making a loss of £4.1m last year (2011).”

www.examiner.co.uk/huddersfield-town-fc/huddersfield-town-news/2012/02/20/chairman-dean-hoyle-remains-committed-to-funding-huddersfield-town-spending-depending-on-promotion-as-accounts-reveal-4-1m-loss-86081-30363820/

As I say throw in the promotion bonuses and the budgets seem similar

Even if Grayson had more in 2010, Clark had the same in 2011 and failed.

You ignore the point that Grayson got Blackpool promoted on what everyone agrees will be smaller budget than Towns

Sorry if Clark lovers don’t like those facts but they are facts as reported

I look forward to hearing further “unsubstantiated rumour that will be taken as absolute truth” to explain how these points are wrong! Maybe, despite all the evidence to contrary I miss the points because I’m not “very bright, fed on rumour, bile and ignorance”

It's not me that has been saying for months that Grayson at Leeds had a fraction of the budget that Clark had at Town. The Blackpool point is misleading as it pre-dates clubs with big budgets competing in this division. So I accept that we have a bigger budget now than Grayson had at Blackpool but I would also wager we didn't at the time he got them promoted and that all budgets in the division were more modest back then.

The unsubstantiated rumour was directed at Bolton terrier in this thread. You all know that because I quoted what he said about what he had heard. It also applies to I heard Clark was looking for every other job on the planet, and Grayson had no money at Leeds, and all the other bile that has been laid at Clarks door.
Did he achieve his objective? No
Would he have this season? We will never know.
Are we as optimistic as we were 12 months ago? No
Has Grayson done well since taking over? No
Is that Clark's fault? NO

[Offtopic]

Where did you magically conjure up this extra season from where Grayson took Leeds to the play off final, mallyb?

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 12:28:36 GMT 1 Offtopic said:

Where did you magically conjure up this extra season from where Grayson took Leeds to the play off final, mallyb?

No magic involved I made a mistake, I though Grayson took over sooner than he did. I fully understand why you thought it was magic though, usually when the Clark haters are shown to be wrong they just attack some other aspect with myth and rumour never acknowledging any failing.

[Captainslapper]

seems to me mally you're determined to rubbish grayson and big up Clark regardless of any facts and are willing to make up a few of your own or twist them accordingly if it helps your argument.
Basically doing in spades exactly what you're accusing the 'clark haters' of.

[HuddsTerrier]

Agreed the League had less big boys the season Blackpool finished third, but it still included Forest, Swansea and Donnie (both of whom spent a bit) … none of whom went up that year. I think it just suites your argument to say it was easier then (note some pretty moderate sides have been promoted in the last three years, so to have a big budget and fail is presumably less excusable )

You also talk of “facts” then you list a lot of subjective questions which you represent as “fact”:

Are we as optimistic as we were 12 months ago? No
Is that Clark's fault? NO

They’re subjective questions, if I was asked those questions:

Is it Clarks fault? yes

He assembled this team and it’s not two top quality, neither under Clark or Grayson. It’s short of the required standard and 43 league games is telling evidence – the season could last 100 games and this side would never be in the top two, they’re short of the required standard and only one man put this team together!

Are we as optimistic as we were 12 months ago? Not sure

We have the same chance of promotion now as we did last year, despite a run of three losses Sheffield United haven’t dropped any points meaning our results are largely irrelevant, we could have won up and Sheffield United still finished second. As for the play offs the best team doesn’t necessarily get promotion, it a complete lottery so who knows, we have a 1 in 4 chance … Jordan may carry us over the line!

Like I say not happy with the three game losing run, it’s far from ideal but I don’t think it will have massive bearing come the play offs (effectively 3 cup finals) … and if SG can get a League One Leeds side to beat Manchester United at Old Trafford then I’m hoping he can get extra out of these players!

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 13:12:49 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

seems to me mally you're determined to rubbish grayson and big up Clark regardless of any facts and are willing to make up a few of your own or twist them accordingly if it helps your argument.
Basically doing in spades exactly what you're accusing the 'clark haters' of.

Don't need to rubbish Grayson, the poll shows 51% not happy with him, he is doing rubbish all by himself. This board has been full of bile about Clark since he was still our manager with all sorts of wild accusations that have no substance. I believe that's wrong.
They have also glorified the job Simon did with many people believing he achieved promotion at Leeds with a smaller budget than Clark and it's just not true. I made a mistake with when I thought Grayson Joined Leeds and admitted that. Have you ever admitted you have made a mistake on here? I haven't made a mistake with the other information. But in typical anti Clark fashion you take 1 mistake and extrapolate that everything I have said is mistaken.

Take a look at this.
www.thescratchingshed.com/2012/04/championship-clubs-financial-results-2010-11/

This suggests when Leeds were in our division their wage bill was £13.7 million.
Dean said our wage bill last year including transfers was £7.29 to May 2011. This was a 29% increase on the previous year.
Source: www.examiner.co.uk/huddersfield-t....86081-30363820/
It's ok I've done the maths for you, in the year Grayson had a meagre budget of £13.7 million, the decadent Clark spent tons of cash, £5.65 million!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now the scratching shed are trying to make the point that Simon did not have enough money to spend so these figures would certainly not be exaggerated. Nearly 3 times the budget Clark had.

[Mastercracker]

Leeds wage bill includes all non playing staff.

Also, your link doesn't work.

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 13:44:50 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

Agreed the League had less big boys the season Blackpool finished third, but it still included Forest, Swansea and Donnie (both of whom spent a bit) … none of whom went up that year. I think it just suites your argument to say it was easier then (note some pretty moderate sides have been promoted in the last three years, so to have a big budget and fail is presumably less excusable )

You also talk of “facts” then you list a lot of subjective questions which you represent as “fact”:

Are we as optimistic as we were 12 months ago? No
Is that Clark's fault? NO

They’re subjective questions, if I was asked those questions:

Is it Clarks fault? yes

He assembled this team and it’s not two top quality, neither under Clark or Grayson. It’s short of the required standard and 43 league games is telling evidence – the season could last 100 games and this side would never be in the top two, they’re short of the required standard and only one man put this team together!

Are we as optimistic as we were 12 months ago? Not sure

We have the same chance of promotion now as we did last year, despite a run of three losses Sheffield United haven’t dropped any points meaning our results are largely irrelevant, we could have won up and Sheffield United still finished second. As for the play offs the best team doesn’t necessarily get promotion, it a complete lottery so who knows, we have a 1 in 4 chance … Jordan may carry us over the line!

Like I say not happy with the three game losing run, it’s far from ideal but I don’t think it will have massive bearing come the play offs (effectively 3 cup finals) … and if SG can get a League One Leeds side to beat Manchester United at Old Trafford then I’m hoping he can get extra out of these players!

As for the budgets you seem so certain of, look at the link I put on Captains post to see how wrong you are there.
As for the team Clark assembled, 4 points of auto's and 2 off wednesday, 15 in front of Notts County when he was sacked. Today 14 behind Utd, 10 behind the wendies and 7 in front of County. The team has done worse under Grayson than it was doing under Clark and so that is Grayson fault not Clark's. There is no way of knowing how Clark would have done, he may have done worse but to get less from the assembled players than Clark was doing is not Clark's fault.

I object to the lies being told about Clark and about Grayson. I object to being told that Grayson is the manager so just back him by people who were making up lies about Clark when he was the manager and failing to back him.

I hope you are right and Simon does turn us around. I don't think he is a bad manager regardless of current form, just not really much better in my opinion than Clark.

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 14:07:41 GMT 1 Mastercracker said:

Leeds wage bill includes all non playing staff.

Also, your link doesn't work.

Thanks for the heads up, fixed the link.

It may include non playing staff but at any club they are a tiny proportion of the wage bill. Compare it to our total costs including stadium rent and it will blow our expenditure away. The point is for weeks now there have been people saying that Simon got Leeds promoted with a smaller budget than Clark had here. In the last couple of days this has changed to similar budgets, and the reality is that their budget was much bigger than ours.

[Offtopic]

How much of that was made up by promotion bonuses? Also, working with free transfers even when you can offer good money still means you are signing players some other team deems not good enough. I'd take your point here but we don't have the figures for transfer spend which i suspect will have been far higher on clark's part than grayson's

[BoltonTerrier]

I was told this week that we have comfortably the highest wage bill in this division.

The Leeds figure WAS heavily dependent on promotion bonuses..Warnock is on a similar contract there at the moment too including a massive promotion bonus

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 15:15:36 GMT 1 Offtopic said:

How much of that was made up by promotion bonuses? Also, working with free transfers even when you can offer good money still means you are signing players some other team deems not good enough. I'd take your point here but we don't have the figures for transfer spend which i suspect will have been far higher on clark's part than grayson's

It's included in both totals. It is a playing budget and he can spent on wages or transfer fees or both. Free transfers no longer have to be cast offs, some players run the contract down so the transfer fee becomes their signing bonus. Also we are in the 3rd division so there are lots of players could be deemed not good enough that would still make a massive difference at this level.

[Offtopic]

Apr 18, 2012 15:21:53 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

I was told this week that we have comfortably the highest wage bill in this division.

The Leeds figure WAS heavily dependent on promotion bonuses..Warnock is on a similar contract there at the moment too including a massive promotion bonus

Can't see us having the highest this season as Sheff Utd are carrying some heavy wages from the Championship, Evans for example. Charlton also signed a shit load of decent players unless they were all on heavy promotion bonus based contracts

[BoltonTerrier]

Apr 18, 2012 15:23:49 GMT 1 Offtopic said:

Apr 18, 2012 15:21:53 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

I was told this week that we have comfortably the highest wage bill in this division.

The Leeds figure WAS heavily dependent on promotion bonuses..Warnock is on a similar contract there at the moment too including a massive promotion bonus

Can't see us having the highest this season as Sheff Utd are carrying some heavy wages from the Championship, Evans for example. Charlton also signed a shit load of decent players unless they were all on heavy promotion bonus based contracts

Just going off what I was told and Ive no reason to believe the person was lying/misinformed...

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 15:27:14 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

Apr 18, 2012 15:23:49 GMT 1 Offtopic said:

Can't see us having the highest this season as Sheff Utd are carrying some heavy wages from the Championship, Evans for example. Charlton also signed a shit load of decent players unless they were all on heavy promotion bonus based contracts

Just going off what I was told and Ive no reason to believe the person was lying/misinformed...

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17726892
According to Bury Manager Bournemouth are the richest team by the money they are throwing about. I am sure you will find when you look into it next year (when accounts are released)that we are in the table about where our budget is in the table. Both Sheffield's and Charlton will have bigger budgets.

What matters really is as a percent of income as they will all 3 have more income than us and that is where Dean is helping out massively.

[popterriertastic]

The issue for me was the timing of it. It's just killed any chance we had in my opinion. Continuity is needed at key times not chop and change. This has shown itself in the results recently

I'd have let Clark go in May when he'd failed again.

[HuddsTerrier]

The budget I seem “certain” of were reporting in the Yorkshire Post and Huddersfield Examiner … I didn’t make them up because they suited my point of view, they are the reported facts

You’ve now rolled out Leeds’ Championship wage bill like this has relevance?

It would appear Leeds wage bill increased by £10m after promotion – no shock to be honest, I mean Town themselves valued promotion to the Championship at £10m
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/huddersfield-town/millions_at_stake_as_town_eye_play_off_final_glory_1_3422281

So of course their wage bill can increase, do you think if Town went up the wage bill would stay the same

You’re not comparing apples with apples, rather picking the bits that suit your point of view

You say Grayson underachieved last season, but by your stats he had the 8th highest wage bill and his team came 7th – I would say that’s a slight over achievement

My point is:

Grayson’s budget when he won promotion in 2010 was £7.7m inc promotion bonuses (source Yorkshire Post)
Clark’s budget when he failed to win promotion in 2011 was £7.3m (source Huddersfield Examiner)

At League One level Clark had similar s to Grayson (plus a lot more time) and failed to win promotion (either automatic or via the play offs)

Irrespective of Leeds Grayson has also won a promotion on a small budget at Blackpool putting in place the foundations for a side that got into the Premiership – I think we all hope he does the same for Town (even the fans who can’t see past his Leeds connections!)

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 16:23:11 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

The budget I seem “certain” of were reporting in the Yorkshire Post and Huddersfield Examiner … I didn’t make them up because they suited my point of view, they are the reported facts

You’ve now rolled out Leeds’ Championship wage bill like this has relevance?

It would appear Leeds wage bill increased by £10m after promotion – no shock to be honest, I mean Town themselves valued promotion to the Championship at £10m
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/huddersfield-town/millions_at_stake_as_town_eye_play_off_final_glory_1_3422281

So of course their wage bill can increase, do you think if Town went up the wage bill would stay the same

You’re not comparing apples with apples, rather picking the bits that suit your point of view

You say Grayson underachieved last season, but by your stats he had the 8th highest wage bill and his team came 7th – I would say that’s a slight over achievement

My point is:

Grayson’s budget when he won promotion in 2010 was £7.7m inc promotion bonuses (source Yorkshire Post)
Clark’s budget when he failed to win promotion in 2011 was £7.3m (source Huddersfield Examiner)

At League One level Clark had similar s to Grayson (plus a lot more time) and failed to win promotion (either automatic or via the play offs)

Irrespective of Leeds Grayson has also won a promotion on a small budget at Blackpool putting in place the foundations for a side that got into the Premiership – I think we all hope he does the same for Town (even the fans who can’t see past his Leeds connections!)

According to you Leeds went up in the 09/10 season. The link I posted showed their wage bill for the 09/10 and the next column, their first year in the championship. The figures I quoted earlier were what Simon had as a budget when competing at our level. He had over £13 million in the same year, according to Dean in the examiner, Clark had just over £5million. Even if your figures for Leeds are right (which I doubt because the purpose of the article is to show how tight Ken Bates has been so they aren't going to exaggerate) according to Dean the 2011 budget was a 29% increase on the previous year ie the year leeds won promotion. That would still be the difference between £5.6m and £7.7m. Not similar, 38% more.

[HuddsTerrier]

"According to you Leeds went up in the 09/10 season"

They did ... it's pretty black and white nothing "according" about it – I didn't make up that Leeds were promoted!

“My number” comes from the Yorkshire Post. Your scratching shed article refers to the Total Wage bill. The YP article also refers to this Total Wage bill - £12.2m in 2008/9 which sits IMO reasonably with your scratching shed number of £13.7m a year later. Crucially the football related bills in 2010 were £7.7m ... you choose to ignore this because it doesn't suit your point of view and you want to present the inflated number!

Direct extract from the YP article, it explains the two figures:

"The reason for this can be partly explained by the club winning promotion, meaning a pre-arranged bonus payment scheme for players and coaching staff had to be honoured in May – boosting last season’s total wage bill for all football-related staff, both players and coaches, to £7,706,000. No comparable figure is available for 2008-09 due to those accounts instead listing the club’s total wage bill, which stood at £12.2m."

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/operating_loss_at_leeds_turned_into_profit_thanks_to_delph_sale_1_3254177

Finally, you argue £7.7m (inc promotion bonus) is a massive budget in 2010 yet seemingly it’s acceptable to fail to get promotion on a £7.3m budget (in 2011)

No idea how that one works!

[mallyb]

Apr 18, 2012 18:05:49 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

"According to you Leeds went up in the 09/10 season"

They did ... it's pretty black and white nothing "according" about it – I didn't make up that Leeds were promoted!

“My number” comes from the Yorkshire Post. Your scratching shed article refers to the Total Wage bill. The YP article also refers to this Total Wage bill - £12.2m in 2008/9 which sits IMO reasonably with your scratching shed number of £13.7m a year later. Crucially the football related bills in 2010 were £7.7m ... you choose to ignore this because it doesn't suit your point of view and you want to present the inflated number!

Direct extract from the YP article, it explains the two figures:

"The reason for this can be partly explained by the club winning promotion, meaning a pre-arranged bonus payment scheme for players and coaching staff had to be honoured in May – boosting last season’s total wage bill for all football-related staff, both players and coaches, to £7,706,000. No comparable figure is available for 2008-09 due to those accounts instead listing the club’s total wage bill, which stood at £12.2m."

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/operating_loss_at_leeds_turned_into_profit_thanks_to_delph_sale_1_3254177

Finally, you argue £7.7m (inc promotion bonus) is a massive budget in 2010 yet seemingly it’s acceptable to fail to get promotion on a £7.3m budget (in 2011)

No idea how that one works!

It works in that what you quote from the YP was a wage only budget. If you read the scratching shed article, the £13+million was including transfer fees, signing on fees etc. Do you really think Leeds have ticket office and cleaning staff making up half the budget? Our figures in the examiner include ' wages, transfers, scouting and other football costs' which will include the statistics package we implemented that season that we were told was expensive, possibly include rent as well but not sure on that.

The relevance between the 2 seasons is that Grayson was operating with that level of budget both years, the one he failed in and the one he was promoted in. He had inherited a good and expensive squad. Clark was having to build a squad and even where you think 2010 for Leeds and 2011 for us are similar they are not because as I say what is included in both figures. The season Leeds went up they were 6 points in front of Town for an extra £2.1 million using your figures (£8 million using mine). The next year when we had the budget of £7.3 million we gained more points than Leeds had in 2010. We were beaten by a team that will be in the premier league next week with largely the same squad!! It is still our best ever points tally from a 3 points for a win. We had more away wins than any other time in our history.

Compare us to Reading, they also lost the play-off final last year, were 14th in the Table in November. If we were Reading fans we would have been calling for his head and Dean being a fan would probably have sacked him. Look where they are today. We sacked Clark and gained nothing. It was a gamble and it's deans money so he gets to gamble. Hope it works out for him as much as any of us.