HD One

[Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen]

Sept 2, 2014 15:41:01 GMT 1 gingerc said:

Sept 2, 2014 14:27:24 GMT 1 Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen said:

I highly doubt HD1 will ever happen. The plans were created mid "00s" and submitted 2008 just coincidentally when the financial crisis hit and liquidity became a major issue with developers. Funders are looking for shorter term models on more favourable terms and so things really have to stack up to progress. Its why across the UK there are loads of projects abandoned even at more advanced stages.

This coupled with the fact that out of town retail is dying and ironically the retailers with the super huge stores are now the ones in trouble as they are too big for their needs but hard to flog on as too big for many potential purchasers. Even Tescos are scaling back their plans as they were aiming too big.

The location is too far out of the town centre with nothing around apart from it to pull people there and therefore I cant imagine many investors getting too excited by it. An outdoor ski slope just isnt appealing to anyone and even the successful indoor ones struggle sometimes so an outdoor one on the Kilner Bank just wont cut it.

Davy did miss a trick with this years ago and the wranglings with the shares. Frankly they would be better served using the land for good quality low cost office space and plenty of car parking as this sector has remained buoyant.

Agree with the comments until the bit about the office and car parking. That'd struggle financially at any scale on its own and also be questionably policy compliant at best.

Fair point, I dont actually live in Huddersfield any more so dont know enough of the local market as to whether it would work but I meant in general office developments have done better.

Truth is they have a load of land people have told them is worth loads and they like what they are being told. The trouble is you have to look at many of these types of developments and many have major issues with failed businesses which cost so much to set up if you dont get massive returns it can bring it down.

[nicovaesen]

Mar 23, 2014 22:57:35 GMT 1 Cole said:

Can we fill in the corners and have two ultra groups in each corner who surround the stadium in atmosphere with controlled pyrotechnics and all dressed in black with big flags. (and breath)

Been saying for years the corners need filling in losing loads of atmosphere

[SaudiTerrier]

Some fair points made but as everytime this topic is brought up, no matter where, people forget about how this would attract people to Huddersfield.

In fact this would appeal more to those living outside Huddersfield rather than those who live local. What reason would someone from Leeds or Manchester have for going to Huddersfield town centre for leisure or shopping? Probably none. However, there would be people who want to go to Huddersfield for the new HDOne site for a day/night out.

[Deleted]

Of course, nobody would wonder why Chinese multi billionaires were at the John Smiths Stadium a few weeks back?

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 12:33:15 GMT 1 rory said:

What's an air chimney?

A fan in the ground that you "sky dive" upwards from and float in. As invented by Roald Dahl in the Chocolate Factory originally.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 18:06:05 GMT 1 @fmuk said:

Sept 2, 2014 12:33:15 GMT 1 rory said:

What's an air chimney?

A fan in the ground that you "sky dive" upwards from and float in. As invented by Roald Dahl in the Chocolate Factory originally.

I thought you were being funny

This sort of thing? It sounds fun. link

Think I prefer the jumping out of the plane bit though.

[terriersyndrome]

Sept 2, 2014 16:25:19 GMT 1 nicovaesen said:

Mar 23, 2014 22:57:35 GMT 1 Cole said:

Can we fill in the corners and have two ultra groups in each corner who surround the stadium in atmosphere with controlled pyrotechnics and all dressed in black with big flags. (and breath)

Been saying for years the corners need filling in losing loads of atmosphere

Portsmouth didn't have this problem when they were voted the best premier league fans afew years ago & half their ground is open air! Think Palace fans were voted best last season too & their corners are hardly filled in either.

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Kirklees Council town planning and development departments are absolutely clueless. Huddersfield biggest asset is not utilised by the the council, the university, the council fail to attract business' to the town to keep graduates in Huddersfield, this would then have a domino effect with other developments following through. Leeds and Manchester's growth has left places like Huddersfield and Bradford on their arses. HD One will not save Huddersfield on its own, a proper cohesive development plan might. The town does have potential but at the minute its at a total stand still.

[HuddsTerrier]

Sept 2, 2014 16:56:15 GMT 1 SaudiTerrier said:

Some fair points made but as everytime this topic is brought up, no matter where, people forget about how this would attract people to Huddersfield.

In fact this would appeal more to those living outside Huddersfield rather than those who live local. What reason would someone from Leeds or Manchester have for going to Huddersfield town centre for leisure or shopping? Probably none. However, there would be people who want to go to Huddersfield for the new HDOne site for a day/night out.

I doubt this would have any interest for people in Manchester, they're more likely to go to somewhere like Eureka in Halifax for a day out than go to HD One based on what it's going to offer, it's nothing unique and Manchester has better of what it will offer, e.g. Manchester has a massive indoor ski slop (Chill zone), good shopping in the Town centre and again at the Trafford centre, various casinos (Genting, Casino 235), better nightclubs (Warehouse project etc), and I would guess The HD One restaurants will be the standard Frankie and Bennies, Nandos, Ask, Zizzi, Pizza Hut etc (loads of them throughout Manchester, Old Trafford and at Media City). I just don't see any pull with this that isn't in Manchester and don't see the attraction for them

It may appeal to people in Leeds (which I don't know as well) but I would suggest they are more like to go to Xscape as it's closer

I just don't see the appeal in this project it seems a terrible idea to me

[garyroberts'leftfoot]

Sept 2, 2014 18:20:16 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

Sept 2, 2014 16:56:15 GMT 1 SaudiTerrier said:

Some fair points made but as everytime this topic is brought up, no matter where, people forget about how this would attract people to Huddersfield.

In fact this would appeal more to those living outside Huddersfield rather than those who live local. What reason would someone from Leeds or Manchester have for going to Huddersfield town centre for leisure or shopping? Probably none. However, there would be people who want to go to Huddersfield for the new HDOne site for a day/night out.

I doubt this would have any interest for people in Manchester, they're more likely to go to somewhere like Eureka in Halifax for a day out than go to HD One based on what it's going to offer, it's nothing unique and Manchester has better of what it will offer, e.g. Manchester has a massive indoor ski slop (Chill zone), good shopping in the Town centre and again at the Trafford centre, various casinos (Genting, Casino 235), better nightclubs (Warehouse project etc), and I would guess The HD One restaurants will be the standard Frankie and Bennies, Nandos, Ask, Zizzi, Pizza Hut etc (loads of them throughout Manchester, Old Trafford and at Media City). I just don't see any pull with this that isn't in Manchester and don't see the attraction for them

It may appeal to people in Leeds (which I don't know as well) but I would suggest they are more like to go to Xscape as it's closer

I just don't see the appeal in this project it seems a terrible idea to me

It won't appeal to people in Leeds. Anyone wanting to go skiing will go to xscape. All the other facilities (bowling, nightclubs, restaurants, shopping) are in Leeds and are better.

This won't bring anyone into Huddersfield and anyway, they would just drive to HD1 and then leave which means that the town centre will take a hit.

As has been said, they need to reinvigorate the town centre. Not do something that would damage it.

[Deleted]

Pave it all and sell it as park & ride to Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds/London. Make a killing.

[Deleted]

Fail to see who will come to Huddersfield for the Ski slope when there is Xscape and Chill Factor. Surely there is only so much demand and absolutely no need to have three within an hours drive of each other

[SaudiTerrier]

Sept 2, 2014 18:20:16 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

Sept 2, 2014 16:56:15 GMT 1 SaudiTerrier said:

Some fair points made but as everytime this topic is brought up, no matter where, people forget about how this would attract people to Huddersfield.

In fact this would appeal more to those living outside Huddersfield rather than those who live local. What reason would someone from Leeds or Manchester have for going to Huddersfield town centre for leisure or shopping? Probably none. However, there would be people who want to go to Huddersfield for the new HDOne site for a day/night out.

I doubt this would have any interest for people in Manchester, they're more likely to go to somewhere like Eureka in Halifax for a day out than go to HD One based on what it's going to offer, it's nothing unique and Manchester has better of what it will offer, e.g. Manchester has a massive indoor ski slop (Chill zone), good shopping in the Town centre and again at the Trafford centre, various casinos (Genting, Casino 235), better nightclubs (Warehouse project etc), and I would guess The HD One restaurants will be the standard Frankie and Bennies, Nandos, Ask, Zizzi, Pizza Hut etc (loads of them throughout Manchester, Old Trafford and at Media City). I just don't see any pull with this that isn't in Manchester and don't see the attraction for them

It may appeal to people in Leeds (which I don't know as well) but I would suggest they are more like to go to Xscape as it's closer

I just don't see the appeal in this project it seems a terrible idea to me

Well it's a bit of a never ending cycle then isn't it? Town wants to get bigger and better but is surrounded by big cities who are established. Can't pull people in because there's no major attractions, don't build attractions because they already exist in nearby city.

You talk about the things Manchester has to offer, but how would Huddersfield offer that and become more affluent if there is no activity in the town? The big companies or unique business wouldn't want to invest, maybe something on as big a scale as this HDOne is what's needed to provide the spark. When you see that there's all this money being spent on leisure facilities to go up around a 24,500 seater football/rugby stadium, where a 2nd division football team and 1st division rugby league team play, with hundreds of thousands of home and away fans visiting annually, in a large town that's right in the middle of several major cities, with several nearby transport links and more to come in the form of high-speed trains connecting north and south, then maybe if you're calling the shots you stop and think: hold on.. maybe there's some potential here?

Obviously there's several pros and cons, it's impossible to predict how it would go if it ever does get going, and maybe its just wishful thinking..but you say there's no pull in this, but if 100m of investment of things this scale isn't going to be a pull then what is?

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Its difficult to see how HD One will kick start the town, its just another bland out of town development and it offers nothing that can't be found elsewhere. If they did attract anyone it would be only people from Huddersfield.

The Kingsgate extension would be a far bigger boost to the town than HD One could ever hope to be.

[HuddsTerrier]

Sept 2, 2014 18:42:33 GMT 1 @dappertherapper said:

Pave it all and sell it as park & ride to Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds/London. Make a killing.

Edit - also in response to Bearded

I'm very proud to be from Huddersfield and like most folk from the Town never tire of telling people how good a place it is!

I don't understand this HD One project, I don't think it will create jobs (just move them from one part of Town), I don't think it will bring many visitors into the Town (who have similar or better facilities closer to where they live) and if successful it will make other parts of Hudds more run down (e.g. if Mecca and Grosevnor relocated the Folly Hall complex would be run down mess, likewise other buildings in the Town centre will be mothballed if nightclubs/ shops move)

I actually think Hudds can compete better with the big cities. We have a fantastic heritage in small business and we also have some architecturally stunning buildings (not the modern none descript ones) that are unloved especially around St George's square (which is helpfully located by the train station). There's obvious potential but it's ignored. I think the Media Centre has been a good success and would love to see Huddersfield try more of the same but targetted at other industries/ start ups. As said we have a lot students in the Town plus I'm sure there are plenty expats who only left Hudds in the first place because there were better opportunities elsewhere in the country. Why not give these people a reason to stay or come back to create their businesses?

You can then look at small retail and help them out a bit in the enclosed market through cheaper rates etc.

Huddersfield is also fantastically located geographically, the North of the Town is slap bang in the middle of the M62 and the South of the Town is just off the M1. Why are there no big business parks like other Towns with similar locations have done (Bradford at the top of the M606 - about 5 miles from the Kirklees border - or Barnsley near the M1). I'm sure big business would look if the facilities/ local incentives were right

If I'm wrong on HD One I'll be the first to admit it but I think Kirklees are spending tax payers money in the wrong place here

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 19:01:22 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

Its difficult to see how HD One will kick start the town, its just another bland out of town development and it offers nothing that can't be found elsewhere. If they did attract anyone it would be only people from Huddersfield.

The Kingsgate extension would be a far bigger boost to the town than HD One could ever hope to be.

Agreed, infact there needs to be a an out and out redevelopment of Hudds town centre.
Like you say it has a lot of potential, and the general layout is better than a lot of similar sized Cities, it's just the content that is mainly crap.
However I think a General improvement in the Town is inevitable with the ever increasing student population.

[gingerc]

Sept 2, 2014 18:51:33 GMT 1 SaudiTerrier said:

Sept 2, 2014 18:20:16 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

I doubt this would have any interest for people in Manchester, they're more likely to go to somewhere like Eureka in Halifax for a day out than go to HD One based on what it's going to offer, it's nothing unique and Manchester has better of what it will offer, e.g. Manchester has a massive indoor ski slop (Chill zone), good shopping in the Town centre and again at the Trafford centre, various casinos (Genting, Casino 235), better nightclubs (Warehouse project etc), and I would guess The HD One restaurants will be the standard Frankie and Bennies, Nandos, Ask, Zizzi, Pizza Hut etc (loads of them throughout Manchester, Old Trafford and at Media City). I just don't see any pull with this that isn't in Manchester and don't see the attraction for them

It may appeal to people in Leeds (which I don't know as well) but I would suggest they are more like to go to Xscape as it's closer

I just don't see the appeal in this project it seems a terrible idea to me

Well it's a bit of a never ending cycle then isn't it? Town wants to get bigger and better but is surrounded by big cities who are established. Can't pull people in because there's no major attractions, don't build attractions because they already exist in nearby city.

You talk about the things Manchester has to offer, but how would Huddersfield offer that and become more affluent if there is no activity in the town? The big companies or unique business wouldn't want to invest, maybe something on as big a scale as this HDOne is what's needed to provide the spark. When you see that there's all this money being spent on leisure facilities to go up around a 24,500 seater football/rugby stadium, where a 2nd division football team and 1st division rugby league team play, with hundreds of thousands of home and away fans visiting annually, in a large town that's right in the middle of several major cities, with several nearby transport links and more to come in the form of high-speed trains connecting north and south, then maybe if you're calling the shots you stop and think: hold on.. maybe there's some potential here?

Obviously there's several pros and cons, it's impossible to predict how it would go if it ever does get going, and maybe its just wishful thinking..but you say there's no pull in this, but if 100m of investment of things this scale isn't going to be a pull then what is?

Problem is there is one big con and that is there is unlikely to be anyone willing to fund it as the returns just won't stack up commercially. As people have said, the proposed uses are available elsewhere within realistic striking distance meaning that it will be left to your multiples like Nandos, TGI's etc to anchor the proposals which hardly makes it a 'destination'. Until those occupiers are signed up at the very, very least then there will be unlikely to be any finance secured from investors to progress the development in any meaningful way. Simple developer economics - developers don't build things unless they make money and speculative development of HDOne's scale isn't back in vogue after the recession yet in towns like Huddersfield. Harsh but true.

Oh and the grant and loan regime following the demise of the RDAs is not going to generate funding sufficient to pump prime it and get it off the ground either.

[Deleted]

Xscape is shit, too short and not steep enough. A proper outdoor slope with different graded runs, effective lift system and snow park would appeal. I know id use it if it was priced sensibly (the indoor snow zones work out more expensive than a trip to the alps pro rata).
Dry slopes in comparison will be much more cost effective.

[Christ in Shades (art)]

The town doesn't cash in on its student population, ok, yeah there are plenty of pubs and stuff for em to get pissed in round the uni area but I'm talking after they've graduated. Universities that produce science and technology graduates usually find technology and science parks spring up. Kirklees don't seem to grasp this concept and the domino effect it could bring.

At the minute the towns ring road acts as a barrier to some extent, beyond the ring road is a waste land, prime redevelopment land is left to waste. The tract of land where the sports centre needs clearing, as does the area behind the newly refurbed flats at the top of Leeds Road.

[SaudiTerrier]

I don't think there's any tax payer money going into it is there? Isn't this KSDL (who's obviously linked to the council) trying to make use of the site they have by basically selling it off to all these businesses to develop?

I'd agree that the town centre is pretty bad and does need some major work.. especially the co-op builing which is where Heaven & Hell used to be, nowadays it mostly just looks like Hell's toilet.

[gingerc]

Sept 2, 2014 19:11:18 GMT 1 @billynomates said:

Xscape is shit, too short and not steep enough. A proper outdoor slope with different graded runs, effective lift system and snow park would appeal. I know id use it if it was priced sensibly (the indoor snow zones work out more expensive than a trip to the alps pro rata).
Dry slopes in comparison will be much more cost effective.

The reality is that a dry ski slope would struggle. Just look at what happened to the dry ski slope in Sheffield:

www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/features/10863702/Sheffield-Ski-Village-how-the-dry-slope-that-inspired-Team-GB-lies-in-disrepair.html

[SaudiTerrier]

Sept 2, 2014 19:19:19 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

The town doesn't cash in on its student population, ok, yeah there are plenty of pubs and stuff for em to get pissed in round the uni area but I'm talking after they've graduated. Universities that produce science and technology graduates usually find technology and science parks spring up. Kirklees don't seem to grasp this concept and the domino effect it could bring.

At the minute the towns ring road acts as a barrier to some extent, beyond the ring road is a waste land, prime redevelopment land is left to waste. The tract of land where the sports centre needs clearing, as does the area behind the newly refurbed flats at the top of Leeds Road.

The old sports centre is coming down along with those ugly flats nearby once the new one is finished early 2015, although it'll be replaced by Tesco (who are paying a share of building the new sports centre) so not exactly a major attraction, although it'll look nicer at least. Don't know what's happening to the current Tesco..

You'll also find that any development work, no matter how big or small, is always met with opposition from people who most of the time have no reason to object other than that they don't like change.

[HuddsTerrier]

Sept 2, 2014 19:10:36 GMT 1 gingerc said:

Sept 2, 2014 18:51:33 GMT 1 SaudiTerrier said:

Well it's a bit of a never ending cycle then isn't it? Town wants to get bigger and better but is surrounded by big cities who are established. Can't pull people in because there's no major attractions, don't build attractions because they already exist in nearby city.

You talk about the things Manchester has to offer, but how would Huddersfield offer that and become more affluent if there is no activity in the town? The big companies or unique business wouldn't want to invest, maybe something on as big a scale as this HDOne is what's needed to provide the spark. When you see that there's all this money being spent on leisure facilities to go up around a 24,500 seater football/rugby stadium, where a 2nd division football team and 1st division rugby league team play, with hundreds of thousands of home and away fans visiting annually, in a large town that's right in the middle of several major cities, with several nearby transport links and more to come in the form of high-speed trains connecting north and south, then maybe if you're calling the shots you stop and think: hold on.. maybe there's some potential here?

Obviously there's several pros and cons, it's impossible to predict how it would go if it ever does get going, and maybe its just wishful thinking..but you say there's no pull in this, but if 100m of investment of things this scale isn't going to be a pull then what is?

Problem is there is one big con and that is there is unlikely to be anyone willing to fund it as the returns just won't stack up commercially. As people have said, the proposed uses are available elsewhere within realistic striking distance meaning that it will be left to your multiples like Nandos, TGI's etc to anchor the proposals which hardly makes it a 'destination'. Until those occupiers are signed up at the very, very least then there will be unlikely to be any finance secured from investors to progress the development in any meaningful way. Simple developer economics - developers don't build things unless they make money and speculative development of HDOne's scale isn't back in vogue after the recession yet in towns like Huddersfield. Harsh but true.

Oh and the grant and loan regime following the demise of the RDAs is not going to generate funding sufficient to pump prime it and get it off the ground either.

To be honest it's not my area of expertise is planning but I think Hudds has advantages in terms of geographical location, educated workforce from the university and lots of under utilised commericial space that if properly promoted, renovated and incentivised by the location authority could provide a bit of a kick start. But the council need to create that environment to get the investment

The telling thing for me is that I couldn't tell you Huddersfield's biggest none public sector employer. There just isn't many big companies in the Town and I feel it's a missed opportunity

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Sept 2, 2014 19:21:09 GMT 1 SaudiTerrier said:

I don't think there's any tax payer money going into it is there? Isn't this KSDL (who's obviously linked to the council) trying to make use of the site they have by basically selling it off to all these businesses to develop?

I'd agree that the town centre is pretty bad and does need some major work.. especially the co-op builing which is where Heaven & Hell used to be, nowadays it mostly just looks like Hell's toilet.

The old Co-op building is a fine building, its a good example of 1930's style architecture of which the town has very few examples of and it is a shame that its being left to go to the dogs.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 18:17:58 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

Kirklees Council town planning and development departments are absolutely clueless. Huddersfield biggest asset is not utilised by the the council, the university, the council fail to attract business' to the town to keep graduates in the Huddersfield this would then have a domino effect with other developments following through. Leeds and Manchester's growth has left places like Huddersfield and Bradford on their arses. HD One will not save Huddersfield on its own, a proper cohesive development plan might. The town does have potential but at the minute its at a total stand still.

I think this is spot on.

Every time I go into Hudds it's like a ghost Town and I always end up thinking "where are the offices", "where are the job". You need to get the people into the Town before giving them a leisure facility. I also think they're missing a trick with Hudds. Manchester and Leeds city centre living is quite high... Why not offer an alternative at 200 p/w less with less council tax and bring people in that way - it's only 18 mins train to Leeds and about 30 to Mancs... Cheaper Town Centre living due to the rail links could be a winner.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 19:25:45 GMT 1 gingerc said:

Sept 2, 2014 19:11:18 GMT 1 @billynomates said:

Xscape is shit, too short and not steep enough. A proper outdoor slope with different graded runs, effective lift system and snow park would appeal. I know id use it if it was priced sensibly (the indoor snow zones work out more expensive than a trip to the alps pro rata).
Dry slopes in comparison will be much more cost effective.

The reality is that a dry ski slope would struggle. Just look at what happened to the dry ski slope in Sheffield:

www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/features/10863702/Sheffield-Ski-Village-how-the-dry-slope-that-inspired-Team-GB-lies-in-disrepair.html

That was on the edge of Sheffield though, nothing around it. Put a few shops and bars in the same complex and you have a different scenario.

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Sept 2, 2014 19:25:56 GMT 1 SaudiTerrier said:

Sept 2, 2014 19:19:19 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

The town doesn't cash in on its student population, ok, yeah there are plenty of pubs and stuff for em to get pissed in round the uni area but I'm talking after they've graduated. Universities that produce science and technology graduates usually find technology and science parks spring up. Kirklees don't seem to grasp this concept and the domino effect it could bring.

At the minute the towns ring road acts as a barrier to some extent, beyond the ring road is a waste land, prime redevelopment land is left to waste. The tract of land where the sports centre needs clearing, as does the area behind the newly refurbed flats at the top of Leeds Road.

The old sports centre is coming down along with those ugly flats nearby once the new one is finished early 2015, although it'll be replaced by Tesco (who are paying a share of building the new sports centre) so not exactly a major attraction, although it'll look nicer at least. Don't know what's happening to the current Tesco..

You'll also find that any development work, no matter how big or small, is always met with opposition from people who most of the time have no reason to object other than that they don't like change.

Yes, it is being redeveloped by Tesco's but I'm talking about the whole area stretching from fabric shop near Gas Work Street all along Old Leeds Road right onto Sainsburys and onto the border of the ring road. Demolish Crown House and the old telephone exchange and redevelop the whole area with mixed retail and office development. The smaller displaced business' could be accommodated elsewhere with the councils help.

[Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier]

I remember following this story a while back and seemed a reported case of the 100 million  K S D L  HD1 project planning permission around the John Smiths Stadium  being halted by Kirklees Council until Davey Agreed the resolvment of the clubs missing 40% shares.  There are websites that will explain the happenings and maybe an idea to  GOOGLE  -- H D 1 PROJECT  to get some feedback as to the future plans

[terrierpark]

link


looks good!

[Christ in Shades (art)]

We've got a thread on this already!!!