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Post by runner76 on Sept 15, 2014 11:51:54 GMT 1
should have just built the right capacity stadium in the first place....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 12:13:52 GMT 1
As other people have pointed out, this isn't going to work if Town fans continue to be reactive, waiting for something to happen before they make some noise. You can't create a 'proper' home end without active support. Hopefully that will come with time, but there were a number of occasions on Saturday when it was like a library for ten minutes or so. If you're losing 1-0, surely the point is to make a racket and encourage your team, not wait for them to score a goal? Maybe we need some German style 'chant leaders' at the front for a few games just to keep things bouncing? That said, I think the NSL is the best thing to happen at Town in a long while. It just needs a few months to gain momentum. But. Even if its reactive, and quiet for long periods, surely its STILL an improvement and will have "worked"? It was quieter for longer periods, and emptier last season. The atmosphere has already improved as a result of the handful of lads putting the effort in, its just a shame there seemingly arent other fans like them trying to improve the match day experience where they want to sit elsewhere in the stadium. Completely agree.
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Post by detox on Sept 15, 2014 12:20:39 GMT 1
should have just built the right capacity stadium in the first place.... it's not so much the capacity, as the fact all the corners are open and the designers of the stadium decided we didn't need a 'home end'. The North Stand was the last to be built so fans already bought their season tickets in other areas..and there is some reluctance to move from some fans. Even after the North stand was finished, the lower tier was just a 'temporary' arrangement..(20 years on) and I guess that's why it was given over as another family area ie cheap for the kids. The other significant factor in all this was the all seater arrangement...and that has had a big part to play in quieter crowds imo. It stifles free movement of fans and thus like minded fans who want to sing and shout are unable to make contact with each other. In the cowshed, or the east terrace you could move where you liked to join in where the action was...now you can't. What 'should' have happened is the south stand should have been designated a home end, it should have been priced and promoted that way from the outset as by now, 20 years later, it would be a well established 'kop' end. All the possibilities have been discussed numerous times on here and elsewhere, but without the club and KSDL committing resources to the problem then we're pretty much stuck with the FML and the NSL initiative. I don't know if this is still a topic at the ATT or if it's died a death but you think the least that could be done is fill in the ends of the stands like many other clubs have done..it can't be that difficult to do. It's a shame really because it is holding the club back I think, even with 14,500 home fans there on saturday it still didn't quite work...it still needs events on the pitch to get the fans going and really it should be the other way round.
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Post by runner76 on Sept 15, 2014 12:44:04 GMT 1
Is it the stadium design? There are plenty of other similarly designed stadia? Are they shite for atmosphere as well?
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Post by andy112 on Sept 15, 2014 13:08:31 GMT 1
It seems like the lads in the Kilner Singing Section just need a bit of reinvigoration, maybe a get together of "village elders" between NSL and KSS might be productive, come up with some ideas for working together in order to get the rest of the ground more likely to join in perhaps??? Maybe not a bad shout. For some reason there seems to be this "us vs them" mentality developing by people who seem to view the NSL as it's own exclusive entity, so perhaps something like that might nip it in the bud as it'll be clear to see that the aim is to get everyone pulling in the same direction.
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Post by detox on Sept 15, 2014 13:17:03 GMT 1
Is it the stadium design? There are plenty of other similarly designed stadia? Are they shite for atmosphere as well? I believe Towns' stadium is unique in its design ...the mark II version at Bolton addressed the problem by filling in the corners and having proper stands at both ends of the ground. I know what you're saying though, in days gone by (before my time) all stadiums were uncovered ( as is Barcelona's) yet there seemed to be plenty of noise when all the fans sing/chant together..
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 15, 2014 13:29:29 GMT 1
Is it the stadium design? There are plenty of other similarly designed stadia? Are they shite for atmosphere as well? I believe Towns' stadium is unique in its design ... the mark II version at Bolton addressed the problem by filling in the corners and having proper stands at both ends of the ground. I know what you're saying though, in days gone by (before my time) all stadiums were uncovered ( as is Barcelona's) yet there seemed to be plenty of noise when all the fans sing/chant together.. This is a major issue for me regarding the atmosphere, the design just doesn't keep it in. The corners need filling in to deflect the noise back into the ground rather than it flying off into the air. The design might have been groundbreaking at the time but it has major flaws for a football stadium, in this case its not better to be different. KSDL aren't going to fill in the corners, it would cost them too much for very little, if any, retturn on the initial outlay. The North Stand, when it was built should have been a identikit version of the South Stand, we wouldn't have had this problem now, would we?
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Post by Pozza on Sept 15, 2014 13:45:45 GMT 1
Some good debate in this thread, much more useful than folk just stating the NSL is crap and will never work without giving any constructive feedback.
The NSL Group has only been going for 3 home games! Ultra groups across Europe have been going yeards and years! Its a slow process and one that will take time to be fully operataional. Lots of things mentioned in this thread here are being discussed and as a group we are learning all the time.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 15, 2014 14:11:49 GMT 1
some of the most abject and thoroughly disappointing 'nothing' displays I have witnessed Town 'put in' have been in front of incredibly vociferous and often large away support.
if Town put in a home performance where we actually put some sustained pressure on the opposition and actually keep the performance level to any sort of intensity you might see and hear a change.
a bit of a sporadic attack now and again with maybe a corner chucked in occasionally isn't going to cut it.
It might just be me but jumping up and down for 90 minutes and singing at the top of my voice for nothing other than the 'joy' of doing it, whilst nothing much happens on the pitch from my team, isn't going to happen. Sorry, I just find that a wee bit odd..
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Sept 15, 2014 14:21:22 GMT 1
I believe Towns' stadium is unique in its design ... the mark II version at Bolton addressed the problem by filling in the corners and having proper stands at both ends of the ground. I know what you're saying though, in days gone by (before my time) all stadiums were uncovered ( as is Barcelona's) yet there seemed to be plenty of noise when all the fans sing/chant together.. This is a major issue for me regarding the atmosphere, the design just doesn't keep it in. The corners need filling in to deflect the noise back into the ground rather than it flying off into the air. The design might have been groundbreaking at the time but it has major flaws for a football stadium, in this case its not better to be different. KSDL aren't going to fill in the corners, it would cost them too much for very little, if any, retturn on the initial outlay. The North Stand, when it was built should have been a identikit version of the South Stand, we wouldn't have had this problem now, would we? The North Stand was always designed to be multi use as someone had the daft idea concerts would happen on a regular basis. There have been a few concerts over the years but for it to have been as intended we should have atleast half a dozen big concerts per year. The inclusion of the sports facilites and hospitality was also a factor so the current South Stand couldnt have been replicated as the commercial income from hospitality and the like was probably too big a draw. For me I still cant see any logical reason why they cant swap the designation of the North and South stands as fans mingle after games anyway so it wouldnt be that much more. Given the Boro fans singing and shoving their way through the car park surely that was more likely to start a fight than bringing them as a group infront of the stadium to the coaches. The concept that "filling the corners in" would help acoustics is just false other than the fact you would have more fans in those areas, it wouldnt help overall acoustics per se. What you need is surfaces the sound waves can reflect off, its why concert halls all have lots of panels on the roof, they are designed to reflect sound. Our curved roof should work well but maybe its too high to get the desired effect. Arsenal got acoustic consultants in with their new stadium and I believe that makes a hell of a difference. There is this case study of the loudest NFL stadium which isnt massively different to ours: keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/09/17/the-science-of-sound-how-seattle-got-so-darn-loud/If we get rail seating in aluminium terracing it would give that same effect for noise ramping up but only if people are there to use it an stomp away. Just look how when we played Barnsley on that last day of the season, at times it was almost deafening. That could have happened on Saturday as we had enough fans there but the performance kept it quiet. That is the single biggest issue for our sound issues and always will be, unless we do a Leeds and use the sound system to make it sound like more people are singing a certain song! I think the NSL idea is good but to be honest I only heard from them at one point in the game but maybe as I am closer to the KSS thats the issue? Taking the above on board a low level curved roof above it would amplify any sound, provide rain cover and improve the atmosphere, just a thought.
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Post by BoltonTerrier on Sept 15, 2014 14:23:53 GMT 1
894 fans in there on Saturday. Shame the NSL is copping some of the resultant flack from the dire performance. I hope people dont just judge it on one game. I reckon a decent performance under lights tomorrow and all will be forgotten.. We set the idea up but we need the mass support to back it and sing throughout. 10-20 of us cant do it by ourselves..
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Sept 15, 2014 14:32:07 GMT 1
894 fans in there on Saturday. Shame the NSL is copping some of the resultant flack from the dire performance. I hope people dont just judge it on one game. I reckon a decent performance under lights tomorrow and all will be forgotten.. We set the idea up but we need the mass support to back it and sing throughout. 10-20 of us cant do it by ourselves.. Are people actually blaming the NSL? I like the idea its just I couldnt hear them on Saturday but I have no problem with the group, its a fine idea. Personally I dont like sitting behind a goal so will never do that but from how strained my voice was Sat night I am not a quiet fan either. I think we all just need to get behind the team and make more noise
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Post by BoltonTerrier on Sept 15, 2014 14:39:16 GMT 1
894 fans in there on Saturday. Shame the NSL is copping some of the resultant flack from the dire performance. I hope people dont just judge it on one game. I reckon a decent performance under lights tomorrow and all will be forgotten.. We set the idea up but we need the mass support to back it and sing throughout. 10-20 of us cant do it by ourselves.. Are people actually blaming the NSL? I like the idea its just I couldnt hear them on Saturday but I have no problem with the group, its a fine idea. Personally I dont like sitting behind a goal so will never do that but from how strained my voice was Sat night I am not a quiet fan either. I think we all just need to get behind the team and make more noise Some people have been aye. Some people are desperate for this to fail... I realised you werent one of them mate.. If its not your thing its not your thing. I totally get that..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 14:42:12 GMT 1
894 fans in there on Saturday. Shame the NSL is copping some of the resultant flack from the dire performance. I hope people dont just judge it on one game. I reckon a decent performance under lights tomorrow and all will be forgotten.. We set the idea up but we need the mass support to back it and sing throughout. 10-20 of us cant do it by ourselves.. Are people actually blaming the NSL? I like the idea its just I couldnt hear them on Saturday but I have no problem with the group, its a fine idea. Personally I dont like sitting behind a goal so will never do that but from how strained my voice was Sat night I am not a quiet fan either. I think we all just need to get behind the team and make more noise In fairness your not one of the fans who's giving the NSL flack but I can assure you it is getting a lot of stick via social media. 900 fans is a great achievement in 3 games, that's half full. So by the 6th home game I expect it to be full..... It's going to take time, fans need to be patient, the players need to get there finger out. We are all town fans, we all need to sing and make a bit more noise. A result tomorrow and nobody will be talking about the NSL, which may not e a bad thing for a while. UTT.
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Sept 15, 2014 14:50:08 GMT 1
The trouble is its in our mentality. We moan about how things are rubbish but then not prepared to do what it takes to sort it out! The internet just amplifies that, especially with how quickly you can have a movement for or against something. Surely anyone trying something positive should be well received by all, I dont see what the NSL has done that has taken away from any match experience, it is only trying to add to it and if successful that will be a very good thing.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 15, 2014 15:02:04 GMT 1
btw, the above post is a personal view, I am not in any way against anyone else trying to have their own way of watching/supporting the team..
keeping the interest going by starting new things or organising stuff may well attract new people to the games, one more bum on a seat is worthwhile.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 15:05:04 GMT 1
It's a positive that this thread has turned into healthy debate. Fans deserve to air their views on te match day experience and improvements can only be made by positive steps not arguments and untruths.
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Post by runner76 on Sept 15, 2014 15:15:10 GMT 1
I believe Towns' stadium is unique in its design ... the mark II version at Bolton addressed the problem by filling in the corners and having proper stands at both ends of the ground. I know what you're saying though, in days gone by (before my time) all stadiums were uncovered ( as is Barcelona's) yet there seemed to be plenty of noise when all the fans sing/chant together.. This is a major issue for me regarding the atmosphere, the design just doesn't keep it in. The corners need filling in to deflect the noise back into the ground rather than it flying off into the air. The design might have been groundbreaking at the time but it has major flaws for a football stadium, in this case its not better to be different. KSDL aren't going to fill in the corners, it would cost them too much for very little, if any, retturn on the initial outlay. The North Stand, when it was built should have been a identikit version of the South Stand, we wouldn't have had this problem now, would we? Is there a contingency in the design that the corners can be filled in? or would that not be possible? If it was, it would add q few more thousand seats......making the stadium even more empty..
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Post by Sio on Sept 15, 2014 15:27:15 GMT 1
This has turned into a far more constructive thread. Any feedback, positive or negative, is fully appreciated.
Knocking things out of our control is the frustrating thing..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 15:34:07 GMT 1
You'd be amazed how much stick we get. I've had DATM PM from people saying it's a shit idea, we are ruining this club etc. They don't get a response but It wears thin. We aren't getting paranoid Andy, we never started this thread. Those that go in the NSL are having a good time, if the Kilner bank is quieter maybe the fans who sit in there need to do a bit more to make the Kilner bank louder an sing more. I don't think some people realise the hard work the NSL lads have put in to get this far, it's by no means the finished article but give it time FFS, we are 3 home league games in. There's no divide being created by the NSL at all, it's more inclusive than any other stand. I have an FML season card but I can't transfer into the Kilner bank, but any other season card can transfer into the FML anytime they want. It's been all over social media saying everyone's welcome. We've held open fans meetings inviting everyone who wants to air their views about stadium atmosphere and match day experience so we can improve the all around feel of match days for everyone. The match day catering is shocking, the ATT and NSL lot are the ones tackling this head on with the club for everyone's sake, not just for those in the FML. Apparently the atmosphere at the Charlton home game was brilliant and the NSL was doing a great job. We've lost to Middlesborough and it's now the NSL fault the atmosphere was poor. I'll second that about the food it's appalling. They have two small carts with an inexpienced staff of four or five to cater for possibly 2000 fans if full. Nowhere near good enough. They do say an army marches on it's stomach The catering issue is being sorted mate, it's not good enough and is being dealt with. It's not hard to pull a pint.
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Post by mightyterrier on Sept 15, 2014 15:43:27 GMT 1
Are people actually blaming the NSL? I like the idea its just I couldnt hear them on Saturday but I have no problem with the group, its a fine idea. Personally I dont like sitting behind a goal so will never do that but from how strained my voice was Sat night I am not a quiet fan either. I think we all just need to get behind the team and make more noise In fairness your not one of the fans who's giving the NSL flack but I can assure you it is getting a lot of stick via social media. 900 fans is a great achievement in 3 games, that's half full. So by the 6th home game I expect it to be full..... It's going to take time, fans need to be patient, the players need to get there finger out. We are all town fans, we all need to sing and make a bit more noise. A result tomorrow and nobody will be talking about the NSL, which may not e a bad thing for a while. UTT. But isn't that the norm for social media, it gives people the opportunity to post what they like, rarely positive and mostly negative? Having used twitter for a good few years now I assume abuse and negativity is the norm, look at poor old Nigel Clibbens who has taken some right stick! "Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain and difficulty ....I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 15:54:06 GMT 1
In fairness your not one of the fans who's giving the NSL flack but I can assure you it is getting a lot of stick via social media. 900 fans is a great achievement in 3 games, that's half full. So by the 6th home game I expect it to be full..... It's going to take time, fans need to be patient, the players need to get there finger out. We are all town fans, we all need to sing and make a bit more noise. A result tomorrow and nobody will be talking about the NSL, which may not e a bad thing for a while. UTT. But isn't that the norm for social media, it gives people the opportunity to post what they like, rarely positive and mostly negative? Having used twitter for a good few years now I assume abuse and negativity is the norm, look at poor old Nigel Clibbens who has taken some right stick! "Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain and difficulty ....I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well." The NSL takes all feedback positive or negative seriously. It's the abuse and unconstructive critism that's not helpful. For the NSL to work all creases need ironing out.
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Post by Sio on Sept 15, 2014 15:58:37 GMT 1
In fairness your not one of the fans who's giving the NSL flack but I can assure you it is getting a lot of stick via social media. 900 fans is a great achievement in 3 games, that's half full. So by the 6th home game I expect it to be full..... It's going to take time, fans need to be patient, the players need to get there finger out. We are all town fans, we all need to sing and make a bit more noise. A result tomorrow and nobody will be talking about the NSL, which may not e a bad thing for a while. UTT. But isn't that the norm for social media, it gives people the opportunity to post what they like, rarely positive and mostly negative? Having used twitter for a good few years now I assume abuse and negativity is the norm, look at poor old Nigel Clibbens who has taken some right stick! "Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain and difficulty ....I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well." I think it's just a little difficult to understand WHY these fans are giving out 'abuse' to the NSL. What reason could they possibly want it to fail? My assumption is that it's singing section veterans who are a bit annoyed that a new section has set up. But we're not doing this to break up the singing section, we're just doing it to spread out the singers across the ground. Just comes across as incredibly pathetic when you get people (one main lad in particular, who knows who he is) laughing when the NSL is a bit quiet, or a bit low on numbers. Ridiculous to ridicule fans of your own football club who are trying to do something positive. Criticism comes to Clibbens from fans who aren't happy about the way the club is being run at that time. I don't condone that criticism, but there's a somewhat logical reason for it being dished out. At your own fans, I can't possibly understand why you'd not support it- whether you want to join in or not.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Sept 15, 2014 15:58:50 GMT 1
Some good debate in this thread, much more useful than folk just stating the NSL is crap and will never work without giving any constructive feedback. The NSL Group has only been going for 3 home games! Ultra groups across Europe have been going yeards and years! Its a slow process and one that will take time to be fully operataional. Lots of things mentioned in this thread here are being discussed and as a group we are learning all the time.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Sept 15, 2014 16:04:49 GMT 1
Does anybody know where the old cowshed is or was it demolished
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Sept 15, 2014 16:12:03 GMT 1
Some good debate in this thread, much more useful than folk just stating the NSL is crap and will never work without giving any constructive feedback. The NSL Group has only been going for 3 home games! Ultra groups across Europe have been going yeards and years! Its a slow process and one that will take time to be fully operataional. Lots of things mentioned in this thread here are being discussed and as a group we are learning all the time. Still got wonderful memories of out trip to Chelsea in the cup as that is whats called a proper away following.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 16:58:20 GMT 1
Does anybody know where the old cowshed is or was it demolished About where Staples is I reckon.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 15, 2014 16:59:54 GMT 1
went to Cheltenham a few years ago under Ritchie.. boothy scored a bullet header, about 250 from Town making a lot of noise, proper 'away' following.. 250 can make a racket given the right 'motivation;..
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Post by Essex Terrier on Sept 15, 2014 17:03:23 GMT 1
Are people actually blaming the NSL? I like the idea its just I couldnt hear them on Saturday but I have no problem with the group, its a fine idea. Personally I dont like sitting behind a goal so will never do that but from how strained my voice was Sat night I am not a quiet fan either. I think we all just need to get behind the team and make more noise Some people have been aye. Some people are desperate for this to fail... I realised you werent one of them mate.. If its not your thing its not your thing. I totally get that.. Until we conceded it was brilliant in Fantastic Upper - a real football atmosphere. Edit: Even some of us miserable old sods were joining in! I bet that, when the results start coming we will wonder what all the fuss was about. #fingers #crossed
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Post by ColchTerrier on Sept 15, 2014 17:19:05 GMT 1
Not been reading through but just seen the last post and I agree, if we have a 3-0 home victory, or a home victory at all there will be no better place to stand whether rain or shine.
The ground has been needing something like the NSL for years! Once the results improve, the atmosphere will.
I for one would hate for us to now go back to the BR singing section (although I did like being near away fans), last year it was okay(ish) at the back and towards the front of the section it was mainly full of young teenage mum's on their phones whilst their chav partners would hurt abuse at the away supporters and go into hiding as soon as they got some back, a la Leicester. Utterly sad and cringeworthy.
Long live the NSL and hopefully - one day, long live the South Stand...that's the aim after all.
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