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Post by shawsie on Sept 16, 2014 23:18:28 GMT 1
Wow shawsie.. Amazing how we see it different ... Agree re the three defenders.. But I'm not having wells as dire and Coady awful .. I thought coady was very poor - looked tired and a bit off the pace and his passing was poor. Didnt think much to wells either tonight.....one glimpse of what he can do with direct service,,,,but too much miscontrolled and possession gifted back to wigan imho.
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Post by fredcarno1 on Sept 16, 2014 23:25:46 GMT 1
If Peltier in midfield is seen as a viable option in centre mid we're as good as down. I can sort of understand us playing a couple of holding midfielders if we are playing a couple of fullbacks who will get forward and support the attack, but Robinson and Smith aren't those men.
Tonight was very worrying if the only way we think we can get a clean sheet against a very out of form Wigan is to play 7 at the back. Tonight was one of the most unadventurous Town performances I've seen in many years.
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Post by softboy on Sept 16, 2014 23:29:53 GMT 1
it did not work on Saturday and it did not work tonight - say I guess the message needs to be "if it does not work keep doing it until we get relegated". I am one of the most positive town fans around but how much longer can the club try & take the positive away. If Wigan had any desire to win they would have killed us off completely.
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 16, 2014 23:56:14 GMT 1
Peltier in midfield is killing us IMO. Hes REALLY poor when we have the ball. I mean REALLY poor! Hides- doesn't show for the ball and when he does get it he gives it away a lot or passes it straight back to a defender. We've turned into a hump it forward long ball side as a result. Hes a million miles short of what Clayton would do last season in that role when we have the ball. And i don't think he begins to make up for it when we don't have the ball. Clumsy in the tackle, he works hard but always seems to be a peripheral figure. Reminds me of Jim Goodwin- sort of near the opposition player with the ball but not actually doing anything to stop them. Smith is having a mare at right back and needs leaving out. For pitys sake, stop this round peg in a square hole thing and play Peltier at right back and nowhere else!
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Post by ACW on Sept 17, 2014 0:04:37 GMT 1
Peltier in midfield is killing us IMO. Hes REALLY poor when we have the ball. I mean REALLY poor! Hides- doesn't show for the ball and when he does get it he gives it away a lot or passes it straight back to a defender. We've turned into a hump it forward long ball side as a result. Hes a million miles short of what Clayton would do last season in that role when we have the ball. And i don't think he begins to make up for it when we don't have the ball. Clumsy in the tackle, he works hard but always seems to be a peripheral figure. Reminds me of Jim Goodwin- sort of near the opposition player with the ball but not actually doing anything to stop them. Smith is having a mare at right back and needs leaving out. For pitys sake, stop this round peg in a square hole thing and play Peltier at right back and nowhere else! Since Powell took over the whole midfield seems to hide. None of them seem to want the ball, get on it and make something happen. Its obvious they have been told their main role is to protect the defence. As a result they maintain their positions rigidly, don't move and make angles for passes or support the few bits of attacking play we have. I'd rather see Peltier at full back as he's not great in midfield and he'd offer so much more as a full back going forward (where we are really struggling at the moment). Don't think it'll happen though - we're going to see some turgid stuff in the short term at least. Hopefully it'll become more expansive, but I'm not confident and I think Powell will stick with Peltier in midfield.
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 17, 2014 0:06:11 GMT 1
Dislike it all you want boys. The last 2 games the quality of our play has been league 1 standard, and not even good league 1 standard. And thatds because we have a below average league 1 standard midfielder as the link between our back line and the rest of the side. If peltier plays there for the rest of this season we'll go down IMO.
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Sept 17, 2014 0:13:30 GMT 1
Smith seems to be suffering with his confidence and isn't a shadow of last year - yet. I don't see why Robinson is so high;y rated. Almost every time he receives the ball he plays it back. Neither he nor Smith added anything to our possession by overlapping Saturday or tonight. Are they under instruction not to commit themselves forward?
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Post by ACW on Sept 17, 2014 0:17:42 GMT 1
Smith seems to be suffering with his confidence and isn't a shadow of last year - yet. I don't see why Robinson is so high;y rated. Almost every time he receives the ball he plays it back. Neither he nor Smith added anything to our possession by overlapping Saturday or tonight. Are they under instruction not to commit themselves forward?I think we all know the answer to that question.
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 17, 2014 0:21:13 GMT 1
Got to say, ive only seen Robinson a couple of times but I've not seen yet why Dixon has been dropped.
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Post by Solid Snake on Sept 17, 2014 1:25:05 GMT 1
Peltier in midfield is killing us IMO. Hes REALLY poor when we have the ball. I mean REALLY poor! Hides- doesn't show for the ball and when he does get it he gives it away a lot or passes it straight back to a defender. We've turned into a hump it forward long ball side as a result. Hes a million miles short of what Clayton would do last season in that role when we have the ball. And i don't think he begins to make up for it when we don't have the ball. Clumsy in the tackle, he works hard but always seems to be a peripheral figure. Reminds me of Jim Goodwin- sort of near the opposition player with the ball but not actually doing anything to stop them. Smith is having a mare at right back and needs leaving out. For pitys sake, stop this round peg in a square hole thing and play Peltier at right back and nowhere else! Hallelujah
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Post by shawsie on Sept 17, 2014 7:22:55 GMT 1
Got to say, ive only seen Robinson a couple of times but I've not seen yet why Dixon has been dropped. I was unimpressed with robinson sat, but thought he was much better last night particularly second half. As for peltier......the stick he has had is so harsh its untrue. Is it his fault coady gave it away all the time, that butterfield was invisible for much of the game, that wells and stead couldnt keep the ball or that smith is having a bloody mare ??!! The manager like robins before him is playing him in midfield...lord knows why, but to suggest he hides is just wrong imo slapps - if anything he gets in the way too much because he is always looking to get involved. We can only hope that when hogg is fit he comes into midfield and pelts goes to right back.....and they both perform, because i cant see where a win is coming from right now with this formation and team.
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Post by Get off the fence on Sept 17, 2014 7:31:23 GMT 1
The second half would have been a good time to get Raddy on for Smith and try Pelts at RB. This could have left the Midfield open though as they crowded it out and dominated.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 17, 2014 7:31:46 GMT 1
peltier made two midfield tackles on Saturday, fell out with the ref and then leadbitter..
tonight, nothing..
he pointed quite a bit Saturday but not so much tonight..
other than making up the 11 required to start the game, that's about it.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 17, 2014 7:32:58 GMT 1
after we have 'tried' peltier at right back,. there is only centre forward and goalie to go, then its the bench, finally get him in the right 'position'...
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Post by htfcfcfc on Sept 17, 2014 7:39:08 GMT 1
Peltier in midfield is killing us IMO. Hes REALLY poor when we have the ball. I mean REALLY poor! Hides- doesn't show for the ball and when he does get it he gives it away a lot or passes it straight back to a defender. We've turned into a hump it forward long ball side as a result. Hes a million miles short of what Clayton would do last season in that role when we have the ball. And i don't think he begins to make up for it when we don't have the ball. Clumsy in the tackle, he works hard but always seems to be a peripheral figure. Reminds me of Jim Goodwin- sort of near the opposition player with the ball but not actually doing anything to stop them. Smith is having a mare at right back and needs leaving out. For pitys sake, stop this round peg in a square hole thing and play Peltier at right back and nowhere else! In my opinion, we could get away with Peltier holding in League 1 but you cannot get away with a centre midfielder in the Championship who offers zero when on the ball.
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Post by thomo on Sept 17, 2014 8:07:04 GMT 1
It's pretty clear Powell doesn't think coady and butterfield are capable of playing as a midfield 2. I thought coady had a bit more steel but the time he got barged off the ball in the second half showed how lightweight he is. So with butters also lacking physical strength, I can start to understand Peltier's inclusion, though I hope it's temporary. The truth is if we are to play this way, we need a tough brick shithouse natural midfielder to play in Peltier's current position (not easy to find). Then as much as I like Butterfield, he possibly has to be sacrificed for someone who can carry the ball forward and act as a link between midfield and the forwards (majewski).
Hope the news on lynch ain't too bad. Thought he played well last night, and was more of a driving force to get forward than any of our midfielders
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Post by Tez on Sept 17, 2014 8:11:27 GMT 1
That run Lynch had in the 2nd half before he got chopped down, I thought he looked our most threatening striker!
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 17, 2014 8:17:53 GMT 1
Got to say, ive only seen Robinson a couple of times but I've not seen yet why Dixon has been dropped. I was unimpressed with robinson sat, but thought he was much better last night particularly second half. As for peltier......the stick he has had is so harsh its untrue. Is it his fault coady gave it away all the time, that butterfield was invisible for much of the game, that wells and stead couldnt keep the ball or that smith is having a bloody mare ??!! The manager like robins before him is playing him in midfield...lord knows why, but to suggest he hides is just wrong imo slapps - if anything he gets in the way too much because he is always looking to get involved. We can only hope that when hogg is fit he comes into midfield and pelts goes to right back.....and they both perform, because i cant see where a win is coming from right now with this formation and team. Perhaps 'hides' is too harsh, but its pretty plain to see IMo that he makes no attempt to make himself available when one of the defenders has the ball. he doesn't want it. We're at different games if you're seeing him 'always looking to get involved'. A player in the role has to be comfortable on the ball and have the ability to spread play about- peltier doesn't even come close to being able to do either. Its one of the main reasons why our strikers are asked to deal with a steady stream of long ball hoofs in their general direction- because we are so short in the links between defence and attack with peltier in the midfield.
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Post by shawsie on Sept 17, 2014 8:24:21 GMT 1
I was unimpressed with robinson sat, but thought he was much better last night particularly second half. As for peltier......the stick he has had is so harsh its untrue. Is it his fault coady gave it away all the time, that butterfield was invisible for much of the game, that wells and stead couldnt keep the ball or that smith is having a bloody mare ??!! The manager like robins before him is playing him in midfield...lord knows why, but to suggest he hides is just wrong imo slapps - if anything he gets in the way too much because he is always looking to get involved. We can only hope that when hogg is fit he comes into midfield and pelts goes to right back.....and they both perform, because i cant see where a win is coming from right now with this formation and team. Perhaps 'hides' is too harsh, but its pretty plain to see IMo that he makes no attempt to make himself available when one of the defenders has the ball. he doesn't want it. We're at different games if you're seeing him 'always looking to get involved'. A player in the role has to be comfortable on the ball and have the ability to spread play about- peltier doesn't even come close to being able to do either. Its one of the main reasons why our strikers are asked to deal with a steady stream of long ball hoofs in their general direction- because we are so short in the links between defence and attack with peltier in the midfield. Where are coady and butterfield then????dont they count?! Dont disagree that pelts in there is not the answer, but i havent seen coady do it in the last 2 games either - i rate him mind, but he is young and will be up and down a bit as he gets used to this level. Butterfield hit and miss thus far. The strikers have to feed off long hoofs because they cant keep it coming short though - the lack of strength from stead at times is woeful, and nakhi plays best on the shoulder of the back man not back to goal linking play. Its all a bit of a mish mash and a legacy of poor squad building from robins - too many lightweight offensive players and a lack of strength down the spine of the team.
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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Sept 17, 2014 8:35:23 GMT 1
Smith seems to be suffering with his confidence and isn't a shadow of last year - yet. I don't see why Robinson is so high;y rated. Almost every time he receives the ball he plays it back. Neither he nor Smith added anything to our possession by overlapping Saturday or tonight. Are they under instruction not to commit themselves forward?[/b] Of course they are.......CP has shown his cards too cautious for me and many others i expect. We can approach the Leeds game the same or give it a go, we have the players in Radi Hammill Bunn and Scannell to play 4-2-3-1 and win this game. Play Stead up front , Pelts in Midfield, restrict the fullbacks, hoof the ball and only luck will prevent a defeat a win a virtual impossibility
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Post by rothwellterrier on Sept 17, 2014 8:44:21 GMT 1
Smith seems to be suffering with his confidence and isn't a shadow of last year - yet. I don't see why Robinson is so high;y rated. Almost every time he receives the ball he plays it back. Neither he nor Smith added anything to our possession by overlapping Saturday or tonight. Are they under instruction not to commit themselves forward?[/b] Of course they are.......CP has shown his cards too cautious for me and many others i expect. We can approach the Leeds game the same or give it a go, we have the players in Radi Hammill Bunn and Scannell to play 4-2-3-1 and win this game. Play Stead up front , Pelts in Midfield, restrict the fullbacks, hoof the ball and only luck will prevent a defeat a win a virtual impossibility[/quote] Oggy asked Robinson after the match on radio Leeds if he was being told not to venture forward and he made it quite clear that he hasn't by CP. Don't let the fact's get in the way of all the negativity guy's.
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Post by Henry Mcgee on Sept 17, 2014 23:15:41 GMT 1
Peltier in midfield is killing us IMO. Hes REALLY poor when we have the ball. I mean REALLY poor! Hides- doesn't show for the ball and when he does get it he gives it away a lot or passes it straight back to a defender. We've turned into a hump it forward long ball side as a result. Hes a million miles short of what Clayton would do last season in that role when we have the ball. And i don't think he begins to make up for it when we don't have the ball. Clumsy in the tackle, he works hard but always seems to be a peripheral figure. Reminds me of Jim Goodwin- sort of near the opposition player with the ball but not actually doing anything to stop them. Smith is having a mare at right back and needs leaving out. For pitys sake, stop this round peg in a square hole thing and play Peltier at right back and nowhere else! Saved me posting. Peltier in centre midfield is horrific. Every touch a tackle - it's a brilliant joke, I accept, but it has to stop. Powell's setting us up like we were a basketcase or something. Show some balls Chris.
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 17, 2014 23:45:03 GMT 1
Perhaps 'hides' is too harsh, but its pretty plain to see IMo that he makes no attempt to make himself available when one of the defenders has the ball. he doesn't want it. We're at different games if you're seeing him 'always looking to get involved'. A player in the role has to be comfortable on the ball and have the ability to spread play about- peltier doesn't even come close to being able to do either. Its one of the main reasons why our strikers are asked to deal with a steady stream of long ball hoofs in their general direction- because we are so short in the links between defence and attack with peltier in the midfield. Where are coady and butterfield then????dont they count?!Dont disagree that pelts in there is not the answer, but i havent seen coady do it in the last 2 games either - i rate him mind, but he is young and will be up and down a bit as he gets used to this level. Butterfield hit and miss thus far. The strikers have to feed off long hoofs because they cant keep it coming short though - the lack of strength from stead at times is woeful, and nakhi plays best on the shoulder of the back man not back to goal linking play. Its all a bit of a mish mash and a legacy of poor squad building from robins - too many lightweight offensive players and a lack of strength down the spine of the team. They do count, of course they do, but in the last 2 games they've taken it in turns to play out of position on the flank- a position neither seemed at all comfortable with and from where neither really had an influence in the game. When we had the ball, the one who was designated to play centrally had to drop ever more deep to do the job peltier should have been doing and having got the ball in that position were faced with 3 stark options due to enormous terrier free zone that now existed between themselves and our forwards- Pass it to Peltier who was making no space to receive the ball so clearly didn't want it. Pass it back to a defender for the inevitable hump up top. Hump it up top themselves. I know thats simplifying it but it is the issue IMO and the main reason why the quality of our play in these last 2 games has been so poor. You play League 1 standard players in key positions, then you'll get league 1 football in no time IMO.
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Post by John Smith on Sept 17, 2014 23:58:01 GMT 1
Peltier just gets in the way of Coady and Butterfield. Simple as that. His inclusion has disorientated them. He needs to be at right back in place of Smith. Again, simple. But until we've a decent forward to play up with Wells we're going to struggle to retain the ball. And if you keep giving the other team the ball, chances are you'll not win much.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 6:08:09 GMT 1
We are definitely more square pegs in round holes, than round pegs in square holes.
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Post by thomo on Sept 18, 2014 6:15:26 GMT 1
Powell will still go with pelts in midfield on Saturday. In fact as much as I'd like to see a change in approach, I'm convinced it will be the same side and set up bar maybe scannel for ward and Wallace for lynch.
The only optimistic thing I can say is that maybe the formation might work better away from home
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 18, 2014 7:12:11 GMT 1
its not the formation, its the total lack of any support for the forwards..the ball just comes back, we don't relieve any pressure and the opposition midfield get to sit on the halfway line or in our half with no fear of us breaking on them, we simply punt the ball over their heads towards 2 blokes marked all the time by 4 and our targetman isn't one, in truth.
4 holding midfielders on Saturday will just end up standing on the toes of the back 4, it will get messy and we will still leave men unmarked whilst outnumbering the opposition by 2 to 1 in the area whilst backing off and forming the 'zulu' square defence.. getting in the way is a very small part of defending..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 9:18:49 GMT 1
He is gonna boss the midfield against L666ds I can just sense it.
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Post by swollentoe on Sept 18, 2014 9:33:06 GMT 1
If we go behind I can't see us getting back in a game if we stick to playing this way
Even if he changes things around once you get into this mentality it's hard to get out of
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Post by royrace on Sept 18, 2014 9:46:57 GMT 1
Got to say, ive only seen Robinson a couple of times but I've not seen yet why Dixon has been dropped. Big improvement Tues from Sat, if he carries on in the same vein he'll turn into a very good LB for us.
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