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Post by duncfost01 on Sept 20, 2014 21:33:29 GMT 1
The club seem to think we had a great transfer window. (Various tweets I've seen).
Well, we didn't. In fact it's been appalling. Every town fan I know has said we need a striker. Vaughan as we know is just too injury prone. Where is that Striker ?
We have gone backwards. Coady, Butterfield , Mads ( why isn't he playing ?) are not as good as Clayton and Norwood.
We are a selling club. I'm sorry but if Dean wants us to stay in the championship we need to bring in 3 or 4 quality players. Proper players not players who have potential. How are we going to that ? We missed the boat.
Loan players are not the answer.
It's been a bloody shambles this summer. I mean why the bloody hell wasn't Robins fired ? I just don't understand it.
Somebody please sort it out.
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Post by catterickterrier on Sept 20, 2014 21:38:06 GMT 1
Coady and Butterfield were better than Clayton and Norwood last week
They still are for me
Forget today, it's a horrid day
I think areas haven't been addressed I agree especially about the striker situation
But those two are better than clayton and norwood easily
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Post by Larry David on Sept 20, 2014 21:39:49 GMT 1
Agree...woeful in all departments and down to too much decision by committee in the boardroom.
Frankly it's appalling how we have conducted our business this summer...Utter shambolic.
I think Dean has been wonderful for this club, but even the most ardent supporter must be asking questions now on the direction we are taking because as far as I can tell we are going backwards.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 20, 2014 21:41:56 GMT 1
If loan players are not the answer are you content to wait till January for new editions ?
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deadleg
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Post by deadleg on Sept 20, 2014 21:50:37 GMT 1
If loan players are not the answer are you content to wait till January for new editions ? I'm not sure Bobby Brown's the answer Ted. To be honest there's only really the lack of a striker I've got an issue with. But it is a very big issue and I don't think we'll stay up if it isn't comprehensively addressed. Maybe we will if Vaughan comes back and stays fit but we all know that isn't too likely.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Sept 20, 2014 21:55:08 GMT 1
The club seem to think we had a great transfer window. (Various tweets I've seen). Well, we didn't. In fact it's been appalling. Every town fan I know has said we need a striker. Vaughan as we know is just too injury prone. Where is that Striker ? We have gone backwards. Coady, Butterfield , Mads ( why isn't he playing ?) are not as good as Clayton and Norwood. We are a selling club. I'm sorry but if Dean wants us to stay in the championship we need to bring in 3 or 4 quality players. Proper players not players who have potential. How are we going to that ? We missed the boat. Loan players are not the answer. It's been a bloody shambles this summer. I mean why the bloody hell wasn't Robins fired ? I just don't understand it. Somebody please sort it out. As good as Norwood and Clayton were, (and Norwood was n't good enough consistently enough) they were wanting out of Town, so resigning them would have been difficult or irresponsible financially given our income. They would have left at the end of the season. Coady who has generally been excellent and will only get better. Butterfield has played well in this league and has all the craft that Norwood has and I think he can shine as well as Clayton did for us. Each of these players are our future. I'd rather have players who we can build around rather than 2 pieces that are leaving. In that sense and the profit made from our dealings coupled with the capture of Hudson, the window dealing is far from appalling. Sure there may be a striker missing but the club knew Vaughan's preseason injury wasn't serious and he would be available 2 weeks after opening day. I frimly believe if Vaughan doesn't respond well to the treatment a loan signing is only days or a week or so away. I maintain the additional striker would have to be very special to replace Vaughan or Wells when they are fit. Why wasn't Robins fired? I believe Mr Hoyle thought he would turn it around, Robins chose not to try so that has been sorted. Edit ... somehow typing that Norwood was consistant...what was I thinking?
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Sept 20, 2014 21:59:22 GMT 1
Agree...woeful in all departments and down to too much decision by committee in the boardroom. Frankly it's appalling how we have conducted our business this summer...Utter shambolic. I think Dean has been wonderful for this club, but even the most ardent supporter must be asking questions now on the direction we are taking because as far as I can tell we are going backwards. A poor week to start for Powell and a bad result at our rivals have shown some of our fans to be flakier than the Town team at the moment. By all means have a rant and whinge, we are all disappointed but our summer dealings utter shambolic? ...... Go have a word with yourself!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 22:07:43 GMT 1
Coady is better than Norwood, no question, even though they're different types of players. Butterfield is stronger in some areas than Clayton and vice versa, but Clayton has the edge. However, they both wanted to go so all in all I think we did ok there. Not bolstering our attacking options was short sighted, though. Should have sacked Robins when he sacked his coaches, that's where the problem lies. If he had done, Powell (or whoever) would have been in place in June and we might well have seen a whole different set of players arriving. Too late now - it is what it is. Got to get the best out of what we've got.
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Post by John Smith on Sept 21, 2014 0:15:40 GMT 1
I think it's far too early to be able to say whether Coady and Butterfield are worse/better than Clayton and Norwood. They're certainly cheaper, and happy to play for us/want to be here. Which helps. From the few games we've seen of them, I think both have shone on occasion. I thought Butterfield was man of the match at both Reading and Watford, where both he and us (the team) were far more fluid and brave in decision making. The defending was still a problem, no bones about that. But those two were the pluses, with Harry Bunn for me, during Mark Lillis' caretaking. And whilst the defending wasn't great, we at least went out there and attacked the opposition with freedom/bravery.
Right now (the last three games), we've seemingly concentrated our efforts on not conceding. It hasn't worked. The defending today in particular was tragic. We gifted them every goal, our keeper had a mare and Leeds ought to have had more than just the three goals to their name. But we had three central midfielders in there, and whilst Butterfield - first half at least - did try things, all three in the main were loathe to get forward, and none of them defended either. We don't need three in there. Coady and Butterfield as a two, it works. If you want someone playing off a front man, try Majewski/Lolley/Bunn/whoever. But loading central midfield with three men and seemingly asking them not to get forward, well, you're going nowhere fast.
Wells was garbage today. He had little support though. Bunn was excellent in taking on his full back, I'd say he was our best player, but his shooting was awful. Hogg offers bugger all. Peltier wouldn't get near my side if I was in charge. Fact he's captain is incredible. Robinson is proving no better than Dixon so far, but it's early days for him. Scannell was typical Scannell. Promises much, delivers nothing. Lynch had a great game on Tuesday, but he was poor today. Hudson won everything in the air, nothing on the deck, but I think he's a good addition. And Smithies should have done better for the first and third goals.
I do think Powell has had a negative influence thus far, as I believe our attacking play has diminished in favour of trying not to lose. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we've the players to play this way. We've plenty of 'footballers' and not enough 'grafters'. But he's three games in, it's ludicrous to be judging him so early. Which is the point I'm making in general. Lets be a bit more patient eh?
Night, folks.
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Post by ACW on Sept 21, 2014 0:32:27 GMT 1
The club seem to think we had a great transfer window. (Various tweets I've seen). Well, we didn't. In fact it's been appalling. Every town fan I know has said we need a striker. Vaughan as we know is just too injury prone. Where is that Striker ? We have gone backwards. Coady, Butterfield , Mads ( why isn't he playing ?) are not as good as Clayton and Norwood. We are a selling club. I'm sorry but if Dean wants us to stay in the championship we need to bring in 3 or 4 quality players. Proper players not players who have potential. How are we going to that ? We missed the boat. Loan players are not the answer. It's been a bloody shambles this summer. I mean why the bloody hell wasn't Robins fired ? I just don't understand it. Somebody please sort it out. As good as Norwood and Clayton were, (and Norwood was good enough consistently enough) they were wanting out of Town, so resigning them would have been difficult or irresponsible financially given our income. They would have left at the end of the season. Coady who has generally been excellent and will only get better. Butterfield has played well in this league and has all the craft that Norwood has and I think he can shine as well as Clayton did for us. Each of these players are our future. I'd rather have players who we can build around rather than 2 pieces that are leaving. In that sense and the profit made from our dealings coupled with the capture of Hudson, the window dealing is far from appalling. Sure there may be a striker missing but the club knew Vaughan's preseason injury wasn't serious and he would be available 2 weeks after opening day. I frimly believe if Vaughan doesn't respond well to the treatment a loan signing is only days or a week or so away. I maintain the additional striker would have to be very special to replace Vaughan or Wells when they are fit. Why wasn't Robins fired? I believe Mr Hoyle thought he would turn it around, Robins chose not to try so that has been sorted. I don't agree tat Norwood was good enough consistently enough - his inconsistency, not his obvious talent, was what made him such a frustrating player. I do agree though that Coady and Butterfield are good additions and have shown it when the team have been set up to play fluid, attacking football. As soon as Powell came in and we adopted a defensive, long ball style they have been peripheral. Get the ball down, encourage the players to pass and move creatively, and we will see the best of them. Continue the defensive stuff and they will continue to look like shite. I have given up on Vaughan as a reliable striker and I loan signing up front is a must. Sadly Stead is past it and Wells is being carried without support. I don't know who is out there but we definitely need some sort of physical presence front who can hold the ball. But more importantly we need a change in mind set from the manager - playing attacking football might not be good enough to keep us up, but the defensive stuff we are currently playing will definitely not be good enough. Let's have a go and give ourselves a chance in games. We aren't good enough to keep things tight and hope to sneak a goal at the other end. 1) We're not clinical enough 2) We're not good enough defensively and 3) We simply don't have players suited to this type of football.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Sept 21, 2014 1:05:14 GMT 1
As good as Norwood and Clayton were, (and Norwood was good enough consistently enough) they were wanting out of Town, so resigning them would have been difficult or irresponsible financially given our income. They would have left at the end of the season. Coady who has generally been excellent and will only get better. Butterfield has played well in this league and has all the craft that Norwood has and I think he can shine as well as Clayton did for us. Each of these players are our future. I'd rather have players who we can build around rather than 2 pieces that are leaving. In that sense and the profit made from our dealings coupled with the capture of Hudson, the window dealing is far from appalling. Sure there may be a striker missing but the club knew Vaughan's preseason injury wasn't serious and he would be available 2 weeks after opening day. I frimly believe if Vaughan doesn't respond well to the treatment a loan signing is only days or a week or so away. I maintain the additional striker would have to be very special to replace Vaughan or Wells when they are fit. Why wasn't Robins fired? I believe Mr Hoyle thought he would turn it around, Robins chose not to try so that has been sorted. I don't agree tat Norwood was good enough consistently enough - his inconsistency, not his obvious talent, was what made him such a frustrating player. I do agree though that Coady and Butterfield are good additions and have shown it when the team have been set up to play fluid, attacking football. As soon as Powell came in and we adopted a defensive, long ball style they have been peripheral. Get the ball down, encourage the players to pass and move creatively, and we will see the best of them. Continue the defensive stuff and they will continue to look like shite. I have given up on Vaughan as a reliable striker and I loan signing up front is a must. Sadly Stead is past it and Wells is being carried without support. I don't know who is out there but we definitely need some sort of physical presence front who can hold the ball. But more importantly we need a change in mind set from the manager - playing attacking football might not be good enough to keep us up, but the defensive stuff we are currently playing will definitely not be good enough. Let's have a go and give ourselves a chance in games. We aren't good enough to keep things tight and hope to sneak a goal at the other end. 1) We're not clinical enough 2) We're not good enough defensively and 3) We simply don't have players suited to this type of football. I absolutely agree with this point ...schoolboy error... that's what I meant to type ... duly edited.
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Post by thomo on Sept 21, 2014 7:31:35 GMT 1
Butterfield offers different qualities to clayton but what's obvious is that he's certainly more lightweight than him. Coady is lightweight too. So sadly, although both Coady and Butterfield have lots of potential I don't think they make a solid enough midfield two right now. In fact clayton and Norwood were often criticised for being out muscled and over run, well I think it's worse now. And I can't see gobern or Hogg or any other midfield option already at the club changing that. Peltier is closest we have but we know he's not good enough in midfield.
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Post by Larry David on Sept 21, 2014 8:33:49 GMT 1
Why on earth did we sign him? If I remember we signed him for 300k when we really needed a striker. He has played one or two games for us and has hardly impressed.
What was the point of this signing? For the future? For me this is is an example one of our biggest problems...signing players for the future. Yes it may come good, but what about the here and now?
We have needed a striker for over a year We needed a centre mid for more than a year We needed a keeper for over a year
Whilst the academy is important it's hardly produced anything of note recently has it? I'll be honest, and this is my opinion, I don't care one bit about our academy. I pay money to watch the first team only and they way that is going at the moment I will be keeping my season ticket money in my pocket next season for the first time in 25 years.
Signing players for the future just annoys fans as the board and manager are seen not to be sorting out the issues at hand.
When we were really skint and didn't sign foreign youngsters every ten mins we had more players coming through the ranks, Booth, stead, Dyson etc. Who was the last person to come through that was half decent? Jack Hunt probably? I'm not having Duane Holmes as quality...He isn't.
It makes me wonder if we are using our budget for our first team on academy players for the future. Why can't we recruit players from the local area for nothing who want to play for the club like we used to?
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Post by 3Pipe on Sept 21, 2014 8:43:24 GMT 1
No point lumping the ball up to him. He needs it into feet.
He'll be a cracking player for someone.
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Post by shawsie on Sept 21, 2014 9:06:52 GMT 1
Larry - have you thought through your post? Most of us know the academy has been overrated here in the past, but without the ability to bring through local talent we are goosed, because we won't (and until now never have!) find many owners willing to chuck 3/4m pa away covering up the shortfall on income v expenditure on the overpaid prima donnas that are the championship footballers!!! Several hundred grand a year for players who perform like yesterday and Tuesday night??!!! It's that which is destroying everyone's enjoyment .............the odd capitulation and mistake is fine, but the same insipid rubbish is unacceptable week in week out and folks are starting to vote with their feet and stay away. Less than 2k again at Leeds can be put down to price(I was one that baulked at it again) but it's more than that........many town fans are pissed off. After years of league 1 dross we thought the championship would be an exciting oasis ---- it's not! The players in the last 3 years have at times seemed unfit, disorganised and disinterested..............yes it's a struggle financially to compete with bigger teams on bigger budgets and the obscene parachute money bias worsens this further, but that is unforgivable for so called quality players and if I was dean I'd feel very short changed. That said, he made the decisions so the buck stops with him I suppose. We are in a spiral at the moment.....Crowds are down because the entertainment value is poor and it seems to be getting worse - I don't go away much anymore......and to be honest most of the time I don't miss it. I am sure there are many more like me.......and after away games how much longer before we just say ....I've had enough and stop going entirely!? Some big decisions need to be made and quick - we desperately need some better quality upfront, and stop wasting game time on the likes of stead and pick a young hungry lad instead. No point littering your development team with the likes of billing, Charles, lolley, Holmes, when the first team get battered week in week out. Give these lads a chance and we might unearth a gem like when hunt returned from loan - they can't be any worse surely?!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 9:08:24 GMT 1
I hope its for us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 9:24:36 GMT 1
He has a hip injury.
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C.H
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Post by C.H on Sept 21, 2014 9:27:29 GMT 1
Joe lolley is the most over rated player at town
Yes he can run at a player then what gets tackled his touch is awful
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 9:35:21 GMT 1
I don't think Lolley has been properly fit since he signed
All those issues with shin splints which are nightmare to try and play through. The outcome is that he needs to change the way he runs. Just imagine being told you have to change the way you've been doing something for the whole of your life that comes as second nature. Then try playing football to the same level you were before while thinking about putting one foot in front of the other
He's then had a few other injuries during pre season. Hopefully he will get there eventually
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 9:36:36 GMT 1
Joe lolley is the most over rated player at town Yes he can run at a player then what gets tackled his touch is awful Yet lots of the players who see him day in day out think he's destined for the top. Let's see how he does once he is over his injuries and has an extended run in the side
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 9:42:54 GMT 1
That's not going to happen with hoofball.
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Post by fredcarno1 on Sept 21, 2014 9:49:56 GMT 1
I think the frustation is more the fact that we keep hearing how we've signed the next big thing, yet there are gaping holes in the match day squad and we go back to signing players that have had their day here (Stead/Peltier).
We might as well throw some of the youngsters in and give them a run, for example we gave Jake Carroll a few games and never saw him again. Yet we are quite prepared to stick with and develop someone else's player in Robinson who is not one little bit of an improvement on Paul Dixon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 10:20:24 GMT 1
Good point. I'd much rather see us loan in some experience than help another club's youth policy. Thornley, Knight and Afobe (just) are the exceptions to an absolute crock of players to have turned up, half arsed, believing they are too good for us to have to get stuck right in. I'd much rather Billing, Sandi Toksvig, Charles etc were in the squad.
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Post by y2troy on Sept 21, 2014 10:47:37 GMT 1
Ive stated in the past that you can have a great youth setup and sign great young players all you like , but if you have no accomplished first team with no identity of what brand of football you want to play and no security at the club manager wise how can we build foundations for these youngsters.
We need to stick with CP if thats what we gonna do ,let him bring this attractive style of football to the club and then when the youngsters get into the team they have a team with direction and improve in team that has a way of playing rather than a team that stumbles along week on week...
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Post by htfcterry on Sept 21, 2014 10:52:24 GMT 1
I feel more sorry for Majewski at the moment.. He must be wondering why he's bothered.
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Post by shawsie on Sept 21, 2014 11:07:41 GMT 1
I feel more sorry for Majewski at the moment.. He must be wondering why he's bothered. I kind of understand what you are saying but has he done much for us yet?! Another talented but inconsistent lightweight signing from bobbins when what we needed was a stronger bigger more mobile spine to the team!
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Post by claytonwestblue on Sept 21, 2014 11:08:20 GMT 1
Larry - have you thought through your post? Most of us know the academy has been overrated here in the past, but without the ability to bring through local talent we are goosed, because we won't (and until now never have!) find many owners willing to chuck 3/4m pa away covering up the shortfall on income v expenditure on the overpaid prima donnas that are the championship footballers!!! Several hundred grand a year for players who perform like yesterday and Tuesday night??!!! It's that which is destroying everyone's enjoyment .............the odd capitulation and mistake is fine, but the same insipid rubbish is unacceptable week in week out and folks are starting to vote with their feet and stay away. Less than 2k again at Leeds can be put down to price(I was one that baulked at it again) but it's more than that........many town fans are pissed off. After years of league 1 dross we thought the championship would be an exciting oasis ---- it's not! The players in the last 3 years have at times seemed unfit, disorganised and disinterested..............yes it's a struggle financially to compete with bigger teams on bigger budgets and the obscene parachute money bias worsens this further, but that is unforgivable for so called quality players and if I was dean I'd feel very short changed. That said, he made the decisions so the buck stops with him I suppose. We are in a spiral at the moment.....Crowds are down because the entertainment value is poor and it seems to be getting worse - I don't go away much anymore......and to be honest most of the time I don't miss it. I am sure there are many more like me.......and after away games how much longer before we just say ....I've had enough and stop going entirely!? Some big decisions need to be made and quick - we desperately need some better quality upfront, and stop wasting game time on the likes of stead and pick a young hungry lad instead. No point littering your development team with the likes of billing, Charles, lolley, Holmes, when the first team get battered week in week out. Give these lads a chance and we might unearth a gem like when hunt returned from loan - they can't be any worse surely?! Great post our group of 6 season card holders feel just the same
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Post by teddytheterrier on Sept 21, 2014 11:25:23 GMT 1
I feel more sorry for Majewski at the moment.. He must be wondering why he's bothered. I kind of understand what you are saying but has he done much for us yet?! Another talented but inconsistent lightweight signing from bobbins when what we needed was a stronger bigger more mobile spine to the team! Tbf we've hardly seen him, looked good against newcastle and apart from that has been coming in added time of the second half, so hardly had a chance! I know he started against Bournemouth but all the players were so poor! So be harsh to judge him on that game
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Post by Floyds on Sept 21, 2014 11:29:59 GMT 1
It's the signing of Carr (and also Carroll) that confuses me.
He doesn't even look like a footballer - yet we paid (£100k or whatever it was) "for the Development Squad".
Why not use that money to fund a striker on loan (like Beckford) for the first team?
And put the young academy lads into the first team squad.
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Post by Skint Terriers on Sept 21, 2014 11:47:33 GMT 1
Name aside I like Lolley and a lot of the players have said he will play in the Premier league one day but he has had problems since signing he's having to get used to being a full time footballer instead of a uni boy. Also had to change his run didn't he?
He would do a good job playing right wing (not right wing back) where ha has usually been played
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