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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 31, 2014 13:29:21 GMT 1
The only circumstance that JV's contract would be wound up was if the medical opinion was that he can't play again - and then it becomes an insurance issue.
Until that time he needs to be wished good luck for his stay at St George's Park and hope that it helps in his recovery. Good idea for the club and JV to get him there for a week.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 14:53:23 GMT 1
I said "If the decision was made" (i.e. by the club). No idea if he'll play for us again. Or even how long his contract is (is it really until Summer 2016?) Just pointing out that "paying someone off" does not equate to paying 100% of a salary. Why would we agree? Well, if it's established (not saying it has been, you understand?) that he won't play for us again, then even if we agree to pay him 99% of his contract that's a 1% saving. Why would he agree? Depends if he himself believes he can get fit. He'd get the cash for x number of months, freeing him up to earn a contract elsewhere (a longer term one perhaps, and would earn more (using the 99% example above) than he would by staying here. As I say in the second and third sentences, it's all hypothetical. He's a grown man, don't forget. How many people in the real world have contracts that aren't extended, or are released from their jobs, or can't find work? It's a shame for us and for him that he's injured, but unsure we should be "rallying round" him, whatever that means. What would you like us (as supporters) to do? A half time collection to buy him a get well soon card and gift? It seems a pretty pointless hypothetical argument. It only really covers a situation in which Town don't think Vaughan is fit enough to ever play for us again, but Vaughan thinks he's fit enough to earn a contract at another club. In this situation it is far more likely that Vaughan would leave on loan or a nominal fee... Can't think of any examples of players being paid off with 18 months of a contract to go, and then walking into another club? A pay off would only really come into it if Vaughan and/or Town felt that he wouldn't be fit enough to play for us again, which is ridiculously premature to be talking about at this stage. By 'rallying around him' I meant generally supporting him, rather than a card as in your patronising example. When Pilks was injured there were banners and chants, I'm not suggesting that we should do that for every injured player but there is plenty of ground between banners and chants and making retirement plans for a guy who could quite plausibly be playing again in the next few months.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 31, 2014 15:43:30 GMT 1
Vaughan cant play football at this level. He is professional footballer who cant play enough games to warrant that description. love him or not that's the truth of the situation.
However you dress it up and however much you personally think he has previously done for us, he is still a player on our books who isn't playing. This is an expensive business and the rewards are high as are the costs. Fairness is all well and good but for me Vaughan gets the same 'reasonable' time and treatment as any normal person to return to 'work'. Any normal person who continually misses work with varying injuries/illness gets advice and then a plan to return and finally gets pay cuts and then is stopped being paid before their contract is terminated. Footballers should be the same. Having sympathy with him makes no difference to this approach and clubs should not be bound by contracts to pay players their whole contract when the player cannot keep his side of the deal.
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Post by pieeater on Oct 31, 2014 15:57:02 GMT 1
Vaughan cant play football at this level. He is professional footballer who cant play enough games to warrant that description. love him or not that's the truth of the situation. However you dress it up and however much you personally think he has previously done for us, he is still a player on our books who isn't playing. This is an expensive business and the rewards are high as are the costs. Fairness is all well and good but for me Vaughan gets the same 'reasonable' time and treatment as any normal person to return to 'work'. Any normal person who continually misses work with varying injuries/illness gets advice and then a plan to return and finally gets pay cuts and then is stopped being paid before their contract is terminated. Footballers should be the same. Having sympathy with him makes no difference to this approach and clubs should not be bound by contracts to pay players their whole contract when the player cannot keep his side of the deal. But they are.
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Post by Floyds on Oct 31, 2014 15:57:52 GMT 1
Apologies.
I'd only consider it as an option if (as I thought was the case) his contract expired in May 2015.
Obviously if it doesn't we may as well keep him as obviously 18 months is a long enough time to attempt to get him fit.
Wasn't a fan of the "Do it for Pilks" campaign, "Do it for the fans" would have been more apt, having been stuck in the bottom 2 divisions for the majority of the last 40 years! Pilkington was always going to move on to pastures new, regardless.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Oct 31, 2014 16:04:44 GMT 1
Vaughan cant play football at this level. He is professional footballer who cant play enough games to warrant that description. love him or not that's the truth of the situation. However you dress it up and however much you personally think he has previously done for us, he is still a player on our books who isn't playing. This is an expensive business and the rewards are high as are the costs. Fairness is all well and good but for me Vaughan gets the same 'reasonable' time and treatment as any normal person to return to 'work'. Any normal person who continually misses work with varying injuries/illness gets advice and then a plan to return and finally gets pay cuts and then is stopped being paid before their contract is terminated. Footballers should be the same. Having sympathy with him makes no difference to this approach and clubs should not be bound by contracts to pay players their whole contract when the player cannot keep his side of the deal. For you maybe. But not for the people who negotiated a freely entered in to contract. Any "normal" person gets treated exactly the same - under the terms of their employment contract. It's unlikley, but I admit to not knowing, that your interpretation of what a contract should look like wouldn't be legal, even if footballers were willing to sign it.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Oct 31, 2014 16:11:32 GMT 1
Yeah, let's pay him what he'd earn upfront and have a 0% chance of him playing for us again, rather than the same amount over a longer period and potentially get some games out of him. Cracking idea............... Not likely to be 100% of what he'd earned anyway but it's not just the money. It's the 'potentially' bit. How many games? All the time taking up a squad number. With FFP we are going to start having to look ever more closely at the squad as a whole and make the absolute best of the numbers we have.Vaughan at his best has been one of the best players we've seen here for ages but we knew he had a history with injuries and it was going to be a gamble. There has to come a point when someone says enough is enough. The club are currently supporting him as much as they can but if he plays little or no further part this season it would be a massive risk giving him a squad number for next. If he had a 5 year contract I wouldn't necessarily disagree if we had capacity to absorb the additional cost this year, but with how long he has left it's just not worth it and why would he want to anyway.
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Post by Venezuelan Pete on Oct 31, 2014 16:23:12 GMT 1
I'd be surprised if there wasn't a clause in Vaughan's contract relating to his playing time. Not necessarily a pay-as-you-play contract, but surely something in there to protect the club for circumstances such as this?
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Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 31, 2014 16:34:42 GMT 1
that's what happens to normal people. injured in the line of duty means being pensioned off but that's not great when you are very young in service. Vaughan gets injured doing his 'job', that to me means the same thing, he gets paid off. Its not the amount he would have earned had he seen the whole contract through but that's the same deal for 'normal people'.
nothing illegal about it, if you cannot do what you have been contracted to do, you might be offered a different type of work within the same business but it may well not attract the same money. People who cannot do shift work anymore for example don't get shift enhancement, if the country paid everyone their orginal wage before they became 'unable' to do what they signed up to do, we would be more skint than we are now. I find it more unfair that people get paid the same money for doing less than their counterparts whilst they cannot actually do what the others are having to do to earn that money.
In 20 odd years I missed one short tour with a minor injury, they wouldn't let me go and shuffle paper and earn the extras, someone else went instead, this isn't a complaint, its called real life. If Vaughan cant be a centre forward maybe he could 're train' as a midfielder?? probably not so its coaching badges etc or just something else, it happens in real life, quite a lot and mainly to people who don't have the wages 'buffer' he has clearly had.
personal opinion is that I hope he gets a magic cure and comes back and plays lots of games for us, I like his game but its probably that, that has cost him so much time out. A fit Vaughan with Powell in his ear just calming him down a wee bit would be a massive plus for us. I fear its pie in the sky though.
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Post by pixie on Oct 31, 2014 16:52:30 GMT 1
It's now 7 weeks since JV injured himself by jumping for a ball and then presumably landing awkwardly, and the club still have no idea when he might be fit to play. All we are told is that James has a calf injury. It all sounds pretty vague to me: what sort of soft muscle injury to a fit young man takes months to sort itself out? I genuinely believe the medical people at the club either do not understand what the injury is or if they do, they don't know how to treat it. As I have said previously, even broken legs do not take this long to heal. It's damn frustrating to me and no doubt more so to JV. If I were Dean I'd look round for a non-orthodox medical expert. In my experience these people know far more about the human body and how it works/what treatments to give than our orthodox trained doctors, most of whom don't have a clue because they have been trained into a corrupt system that deals only in toxic drugs and palliatives. Sorry but IMO you are very wrong.He needs experts not quacks. I presume JV has been seeing "experts" for the last few years. Doesn't seem to have done him much good does it? I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knee 3 years ago by my GP. He told me there was nothing that could be done to cure it. I subsequently took advice from someone you would call a quack. 3 months later I was cured. I am almost 75 and ran about 100 yards this morning on my way to the newsagents. I would advise everyone to be wary of being brainwashed by our governments and media. Use the internet and have an open mind. I anticipate reaching 100 years of age and in good health. Do you? By the way the medical profession is almost certainly the No. 1 cause of death in this country. At least 50,000 people a year die from "properly prescribed drugs".
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Oct 31, 2014 16:55:23 GMT 1
It's not looking good is it but who really knows, if by some miracle he gets back at end of the year then manages to play some games this can only be seen as a bonus,, and how many games he could manage is anybody's guess.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 31, 2014 17:25:09 GMT 1
that's what happens to normal people. injured in the line of duty means being pensioned off but that's not great when you are very young in service. Vaughan gets injured doing his 'job', that to me means the same thing, he gets paid off. Its not the amount he would have earned had he seen the whole contract through but that's the same deal for 'normal people'.
nothing illegal about it, if you cannot do what you have been contracted to do, you might be offered a different type of work within the same business but it may well not attract the same money. People who cannot do shift work anymore for example don't get shift enhancement, if the country paid everyone their orginal wage before they became 'unable' to do what they signed up to do, we would be more skint than we are now. I find it more unfair that people get paid the same money for doing less than their counterparts whilst they cannot actually do what the others are having to do to earn that money. In 20 odd years I missed one short tour with a minor injury, they wouldn't let me go and shuffle paper and earn the extras, someone else went instead, this isn't a complaint, its called real life. If Vaughan cant be a centre forward maybe he could 're train' as a midfielder?? probably not so its coaching badges etc or just something else, it happens in real life, quite a lot and mainly to people who don't have the wages 'buffer' he has clearly had. personal opinion is that I hope he gets a magic cure and comes back and plays lots of games for us, I like his game but its probably that, that has cost him so much time out. A fit Vaughan with Powell in his ear just calming him down a wee bit would be a massive plus for us. I fear its pie in the sky though. Yes but before normal people get pensioned off as medically unfit, they have to be declared medically unfit. There is no suggestion that Vaughan can be declared medically unfit - and as was said earlier in the thread - if he eventually is then it becomes an insurance issue. Not sure what all the concern is about - other than obviously getting him back on the pitch. He has 59 appearances already for Town, just short of the number of games Barry Horne played. I reckon he will play over a 100 for Town. We ought to have a DATM sweepstake so we could all put our money where our mouths are. Range 60 - 160.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 17:26:20 GMT 1
Sorry but IMO you are very wrong.He needs experts not quacks. I presume JV has been seeing "experts" for the last few years. Doesn't seem to have done him much good does it? I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knee 3 years ago by my GP. He told me there was nothing that could be done to cure it. I subsequently took advice from someone you would call a quack. 3 months later I was cured. I am almost 75 and ran about 100 yards this morning on my way to the newsagents. I would advise everyone to be wary of being brainwashed by our governments and media. Use the internet and have an open mind. I anticipate reaching 100 years of age and in good health. Do you? By the way the medical profession is almost certainly the No. 1 cause of death in this country. At least 50,000 people a year die from "properly prescribed drugs". It is rightly your opinion ,your choice. Me and mine will stick to what we know and trust .
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Post by stinkypete on Oct 31, 2014 18:08:18 GMT 1
Sorry but IMO you are very wrong.He needs experts not quacks. I presume JV has been seeing "experts" for the last few years. Doesn't seem to have done him much good does it? I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knee 3 years ago by my GP. He told me there was nothing that could be done to cure it. I subsequently took advice from someone you would call a quack. 3 months later I was cured. I am almost 75 and ran about 100 yards this morning on my way to the newsagents. I would advise everyone to be wary of being brainwashed by our governments and media. Use the internet and have an open mind. I anticipate reaching 100 years of age and in good health. Do you? By the way the medical profession is almost certainly the No. 1 cause of death in this country. At least 50,000 people a year die from "properly prescribed drugs". Yawn !! Where's your proof in this "stat"? So when a loved one of yours requires urgent medical attention you'll let the ambulance drive past will you and rub some cream consisting of newts testicles and giraffe semen on the injured area instead
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Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 31, 2014 18:17:22 GMT 1
stinky..isn't that the ingredients of what 'stops the 7 signs of ageing' the 8th being death???
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 18:20:29 GMT 1
I think people who boast they don't need the medical profession are being extremely short sighted, you never know what's in store. On a personal level I owe my life (the last 45 years anyway) to Leeds infirmary and Killingbeck hospital having had a congenital heart defect repaired. Take quite a few 'properly prescribed drugs' per day including rat poison (warfarin). PS. Pixie, I am in very good health and not far behind you.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 31, 2014 18:27:49 GMT 1
Sorry but IMO you are very wrong.He needs experts not quacks. I presume JV has been seeing "experts" for the last few years. Doesn't seem to have done him much good does it? I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knee 3 years ago by my GP. He told me there was nothing that could be done to cure it. I subsequently took advice from someone you would call a quack. 3 months later I was cured. I am almost 75 and ran about 100 yards this morning on my way to the newsagents. I would advise everyone to be wary of being brainwashed by our governments and media. Use the internet and have an open mind. I anticipate reaching 100 years of age and in good health. Do you? By the way the medical profession is almost certainly the No. 1 cause of death in this country. At least 50,000 people a year die from "properly prescribed drugs". We all need to be wary of being brainwashed.
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Post by pixie on Oct 31, 2014 18:49:20 GMT 1
I presume JV has been seeing "experts" for the last few years. Doesn't seem to have done him much good does it? I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knee 3 years ago by my GP. He told me there was nothing that could be done to cure it. I subsequently took advice from someone you would call a quack. 3 months later I was cured. I am almost 75 and ran about 100 yards this morning on my way to the newsagents. I would advise everyone to be wary of being brainwashed by our governments and media. Use the internet and have an open mind. I anticipate reaching 100 years of age and in good health. Do you? By the way the medical profession is almost certainly the No. 1 cause of death in this country. At least 50,000 people a year die from "properly prescribed drugs". Yawn !! Where's your proof in this "stat"? So when a loved one of yours requires urgent medical attention you'll let the ambulance drive past will you and rub some cream consisting of newts testicles and giraffe semen on the injured area instead Doesn't look like there is much hope for you Pete. You're one of the 95% that the rest of us call "sheeple". Urgent medical attention should generally refer to accidents rather than health problems. Those of us who know how to look after ourselves don't have serious health problems. I certainly don't and my wife has never seen a doctor in 30 years. Can you and the other sceptics/jokers say the same? You won't answer that of course: people like you never do. All you can do is poke fun to get a laugh. Well I'm afraid the final laugh will be on you. Just look around at all the pensioners. The vast majority are on drugs for the rest of their lives. That'll be you some day. I can't prove the figure of 50,000 but I have read it somewhere. There are no official statistics on this as the medical profession would not like us to know what goes on. It has been acknowledged however in the US that they are the third leading cause of death. As an example when people who have cancer die, it is rarely if ever admitted that they have died as a result of the chemo/radiation rather than the cancer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 18:58:20 GMT 1
Yawn !! Where's your proof in this "stat"? So when a loved one of yours requires urgent medical attention you'll let the ambulance drive past will you and rub some cream consisting of newts testicles and giraffe semen on the injured area instead Doesn't look like there is much hope for you Pete. You're one of the 95% that the rest of us call "sheeple". Urgent medical attention should generally refer to accidents rather than health problems. Those of us who know how to look after ourselves don't have serious health problems. I certainly don't and my wife has never seen a doctor in 30 years. Can you and the other sceptics/jokers say the same? You won't answer that of course: people like you never do. All you can do is poke fun to get a laugh. Well I'm afraid the final laugh will be on you. Just look around at all the pensioners. The vast majority are on drugs for the rest of their lives. That'll be you some day. I can't prove the figure of 50,000 but I have read it somewhere. There are no official statistics on this as the medical profession would not like us to know what goes on. It has been acknowledged however in the US that they are the third leading cause of death. As an example when people who have cancer die, it is rarely if ever admitted that they have died as a result of the chemo/radiation rather than the cancer. Do you know the meaning of the word "congenital"? I was speaking with one of those pensioners the other day (aged 99) and thanks to our health service still going, good luck on getting there.
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Post by mrg on Oct 31, 2014 18:58:23 GMT 1
Everyone does know that the club won't be paying his wages an insurance policy will. Ok so the insurance premium won't be cheap but it won't be 15k a week either. It seems a bit strange to say get rid when the bill isn't that high anyway in relative terms. Granted it's DHs money and we need to get top 6 to come anywhere close to making it back as a club. The bottom line is we might as well put resources into getting him playing because he is our player, and it's costing us the price of the premium while he ain't playing. On a positive not oo to be a...
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 31, 2014 19:02:21 GMT 1
So how do you explain this trend of rising life expectancy Pixie or am I being brainwashed, or is it a government/medical profession conspiracy? I wish you a long and healthy life - and the best of medical attention when you or your family need it.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Oct 31, 2014 19:04:02 GMT 1
Yawn !! Where's your proof in this "stat"? So when a loved one of yours requires urgent medical attention you'll let the ambulance drive past will you and rub some cream consisting of newts testicles and giraffe semen on the injured area instead Doesn't look like there is much hope for you Pete. You're one of the 95% that the rest of us call "sheeple". Urgent medical attention should generally refer to accidents rather than health problems. Those of us who know how to look after ourselves don't have serious health problems. I certainly don't and my wife has never seen a doctor in 30 years. Can you and the other sceptics/jokers say the same? You won't answer that of course: people like you never do. All you can do is poke fun to get a laugh. Well I'm afraid the final laugh will be on you. Just look around at all the pensioners. The vast majority are on drugs for the rest of their lives. That'll be you some day. I can't prove the figure of 50,000 but I have read it somewhere. There are no official statistics on this as the medical profession would not like us to know what goes on. It has been acknowledged however in the US that they are the third leading cause of death. As an example when people who have cancer die, it is rarely if ever admitted that they have died as a result of the chemo/radiation rather than the cancer. Some say laughter is the best medicine link
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 20:21:53 GMT 1
Yawn !! Where's your proof in this "stat"? So when a loved one of yours requires urgent medical attention you'll let the ambulance drive past will you and rub some cream consisting of newts testicles and giraffe semen on the injured area instead Doesn't look like there is much hope for you Pete. You're one of the 95% that the rest of us call "sheeple". Urgent medical attention should generally refer to accidents rather than health problems. Those of us who know how to look after ourselves don't have serious health problems. I certainly don't and my wife has never seen a doctor in 30 years. Can you and the other sceptics/jokers say the same? You won't answer that of course: people like you never do. All you can do is poke fun to get a laugh. Well I'm afraid the final laugh will be on you. Just look around at all the pensioners. The vast majority are on drugs for the rest of their lives. That'll be you some day. I can't prove the figure of 50,000 but I have read it somewhere. There are no official statistics on this as the medical profession would not like us to know what goes on. It has been acknowledged however in the US that they are the third leading cause of death. As an example when people who have cancer die, it is rarely if ever admitted that they have died as a result of the chemo/radiation rather than the cancer. Well I hope that if your loved ones or yourself? really need care then they look no further than the wonderful group of bona fide doctors and nurses who 1)saved me. 2)restored a good friends mobility and took away her pain.3) are currently caring for my darling sister with spinal cancer will be there for them and you. p.s my sister and her great friend were two of the best nurses the NHS ever trained.
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Post by pixie on Oct 31, 2014 23:48:47 GMT 1
Well I hope that if your loved ones or yourself? really need care then they look no further than the wonderful group of bona fide doctors and nurses who 1)saved me. 2)restored a good friends mobility and took away her pain.3) are currently caring for my darling sister with spinal cancer will be there for them and you. p.s my sister and her great friend were two of the best nurses the NHS ever trained. Very sorry to hear about your sister. It's a fact that cancer cannot live in the presence of oxygen or in an alkaline environment, say a pH of over 7. Cells turn cancerous when they do not get sufficient oxygen. Check out bicarbonate of soda (Sodium Bicarbonate BP). It both oxygenates and alkalises, the formula being NaHCO3. You can buy a tub at Boots for just over £1 and at the very least it cannot do any harm.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 10:16:46 GMT 1
Sorry but your opinions offend my sensitivity. They are yours but thankfully not me or mine's. We have great faith in the wonderful care she is receiving. I still feel in an emergency you'll opt for the conventional car available.
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Post by Henry Mcgee on Nov 1, 2014 11:02:02 GMT 1
Crank Alert!
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Post by pixie on Nov 1, 2014 11:23:36 GMT 1
Sorry but your opinions offend my sensitivity. They are yours but thankfully not me or mine's. We have great faith in the wonderful care she is receiving. I still feel in an emergency you'll opt for the conventional car available.Absolutely no chance. At best chemo "cures" 2%-3% of cancers, period. Our illnesses can only be cured by our own immune system. That's the way nature (God) made it. The cause of cancer is not a shortage of chemo (poison).
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Nov 1, 2014 11:34:27 GMT 1
God doesn't exist.. Sorry to break it on a football forum
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 11:48:42 GMT 1
Sorry but your opinions offend my sensitivity. They are yours but thankfully not me or mine's. We have great faith in the wonderful care she is receiving. I still feel in an emergency you'll opt for the conventional car available.Absolutely no chance. At best chemo "cures" 2%-3% of cancers, period. Our illnesses can only be cured by our own immune system. That's the way nature (God) made it. The cause of cancer is not a shortage of chemo (poison). IMO you are very odd in your choice of health matters but as they say there is "nowt as queer as folk". Looking on hee at other peoples` experiences and successes I`m sure the majority would agree with my take on this. Really pleased that JV is not in the hands of the people who you advocate to care for him. IMO without being too rude you are a crank but whey hey it is your IMO daft choice. Last post because we would never ever agree on this subject.
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Novakaine
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Post by Novakaine on Nov 1, 2014 11:55:16 GMT 1
God doesn't exist.. Sorry to break it on a football forum God exists where it is needed.
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