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Post by York Terrier on Nov 25, 2014 20:27:23 GMT 1
In an effort not to mention things that will upset the normal grumps on here I was just wondering why the same police force who look after the matches at Leeds and Bradford are happy to let the away fans mingle in different parts of the ground and do not enforce the same rules as would appear to apply at Huddersfield.
if you go to Leeds you will know that all away fans are in the middle of two sections of the ground occupied by the home fans, no buses directly behind a separate away end,non of the home fans being locked in at the end of the game and whilst the atmosphere can be a little hot I have not seen any trouble either inside or outside the ground over the past few years.
So if the police are happy with these arrangements at Leeds and Bradford what is different at Huddersfield particularly as for those ( who say the Police will not allow change) who do go to Leeds game will confirm that they moved the away supporters area around two years ago
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 25, 2014 20:38:22 GMT 1
Good points. I can't help think that the reasons are that we have consistently pandered to the ridiculous wishes of WYP for years regarding all manner of over-egged sanctions put in place to both hinder football fans going through the highly dangerous act of watching a football match, and to make WYP's job of policing a football match as easy yet expensive as possible.
Whereas Leeds have dug their heals in and not caved in so readily and even successfully sued WYP for the ridiculous costs they were forcing on them.
Basically i think we may be a soft touch that just rolls over and has our tummy tickled every time plod wants to arse us about.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 25, 2014 20:44:12 GMT 1
Its about stubborness, not losing face, having to back down and say...erm, we might have been wrong/hasty/stupid here. If we got the South stand within one match everything would fall into place and everyone would wonder what the fuss had been about. Park away coaches at Canalside, the nearest motorway is Cooper bridge anyway. Only half a dozen coppers and stewards would be needed to usher them along Leeds Road and then an easy getaway. Its insanity comparable to the Emperors New Clothes. Police justifying bonuses, weekend work and standing around chatting. There is NO safety issue except the current madness where the fans are now forced to mingle in the car park. A four-year old with a squint could work it out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 20:57:11 GMT 1
It's simple: Valley Parade and Elland Road are older stadiums, with no real thought for crowd control safety in their design. The McAlpine is a 'new', purpose-built stadium. As such, following the Taylor Report, crowd safety was at the heart of the design. The South Stand was designed with the express purpose of housing away fans.
That's it; no conspiracy, no contempt, no pandering.
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Post by Sio on Nov 25, 2014 21:04:24 GMT 1
It's simple: Valley Parade and Elland Road are older stadiums, with no real thought for crowd control safety in their design. The McAlpine is a 'new', purpose-built stadium. As such, following the Taylor Report, crowd safety was at the heart of the design. The South Stand was designed with the express purpose of housing away fans. That's it; no conspiracy, no contempt, no pandering. Exactly this. Don't understand why so many people think it's some conspiracy against Town. Between them, the police, safety teams and KSDL want away fans located in a place with easy exit routes. Makes sense, really. It isn't a case of WYP coming along and shooting the idea down- I'd say the main party involved in this would be the safety panel.
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Post by Sio on Nov 25, 2014 21:05:51 GMT 1
Its about stubborness, not losing face, having to back down and say...erm, we might have been wrong/hasty/stupid here. If we got the South stand within one match everything would fall into place and everyone would wonder what the fuss had been about. Park away coaches at Canalside, the nearest motorway is Cooper bridge anyway. Only half a dozen coppers and stewards would be needed to usher them along Leeds Road and then an easy getaway. Its insanity comparable to the Emperors New Clothes. Police justifying bonuses, weekend work and standing around chatting. There is NO safety issue except the current madness where the fans are now forced to mingle in the car park. A four-year old with a squint could work it out. Park away coaches at the one place where home fans are encouraged to go? Aye sensible idea that.
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Post by shawsie on Nov 25, 2014 21:09:46 GMT 1
It's simple: Valley Parade and Elland Road are older stadiums, with no real thought for crowd control safety in their design. The McAlpine is a 'new', purpose-built stadium. As such, following the Taylor Report, crowd safety was at the heart of the design. The South Stand was designed with the express purpose of housing away fans. That's it; no conspiracy, no contempt, no pandering. If thats the case then why did we house the away fans in the north part of the kilner when we first opened the stadium? Surely easier to house them in the south end where the coaches have always been parked?!
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Post by Norn Iron Terrier on Nov 25, 2014 21:17:53 GMT 1
Different police person in charge for each club, different grounds etc producing inconsistency galore.
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Post by jqhtfc on Nov 25, 2014 21:19:10 GMT 1
Derby and boro are also new grounds yet they have no issue moving away fans!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 21:19:54 GMT 1
It's simple: Valley Parade and Elland Road are older stadiums, with no real thought for crowd control safety in their design. The McAlpine is a 'new', purpose-built stadium. As such, following the Taylor Report, crowd safety was at the heart of the design. The South Stand was designed with the express purpose of housing away fans. That's it; no conspiracy, no contempt, no pandering. If thats the case then why did we house the away fans in the north part of the kilner when we first opened the stadium? Surely easier to house them in the south end where the coaches have always been parked?! Because it didn't have the safety certificate.
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Post by thrice on Nov 25, 2014 21:35:12 GMT 1
If thats the case then why did we house the away fans in the north part of the kilner when we first opened the stadium? Surely easier to house them in the south end where the coaches have always been parked?! Because it didn't have the safety certificate. The stadium was not designed with the intention of half the home fans being held back or going back to town via the Sellers bridge though1
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 25, 2014 21:42:11 GMT 1
Its about stubborness, not losing face, having to back down and say...erm, we might have been wrong/hasty/stupid here. If we got the South stand within one match everything would fall into place and everyone would wonder what the fuss had been about. Park away coaches at Canalside, the nearest motorway is Cooper bridge anyway. Only half a dozen coppers and stewards would be needed to usher them along Leeds Road and then an easy getaway. Its insanity comparable to the Emperors New Clothes. Police justifying bonuses, weekend work and standing around chatting. There is NO safety issue except the current madness where the fans are now forced to mingle in the car park. A four-year old with a squint could work it out. Park away coaches at the one place where home fans are encouraged to go? Aye sensible idea that. Away fans came that way at the Old Leeds Road despite their end being furthest away. Most away fans bring 5 coaches...stick em anywhere, Old Leeds Raod. outside the cinema, get them to drop the fans at the North stand entrance and then drive the coaches empty and park at Mirfield train station for all i care. Its madness. Canalside, do fans really go prior to matches? I dont know anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 21:42:54 GMT 1
Because it didn't have the safety certificate. The stadium was not designed with the intention of half the home fans being held back or going back to town via the Sellers bridge though1 Look, I'm not an expert on stadium safety. However, it seems evident that loads on here - asking the same questions over and over - haven't read the info that is freely available about this. My point is there's no need to be so victimised, distrustful or fault-finding. The club / police / safety team aren't laughing up their sleeves at the down-trodden sheeple Town fan; their decisions are thought out and justified (whether you agree with the decision is another matter).
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 25, 2014 21:45:23 GMT 1
Different police person in charge for each club, different grounds etc producing inconsistency galore. A post not to be ignored in this thread.
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Post by softboy on Nov 25, 2014 21:46:37 GMT 1
The safest way would be to put Town fans in the South Stand & away fans in the North Stand - coaches either down at canalside or even at the bottom of the car park accross the river opposite the cinema complex. This way most away fans (particularly who came by coach) would not even meet the bulk of home fans who would be straight up to Town. However if you were trying to create a situation that was MOST likely to lead to trouble then what we have now is exactly that. For example: Home fans leaving the ground either side of away fans in the middle. Those on coaches have to cross town fans walking up to their right. Even when they get to the coaches do the stewards/police make them get on with a steward or bobby at the coach door, not on your life - what we have is a row of police/stewards in a line with fans (both home and away) trading insults. You would have thought that the police would know how to police a football match by now!
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Post by Stiggy on Nov 25, 2014 21:49:41 GMT 1
The club need to grow a pair and tell WYP we're having it how we want it whether they like it or not! We're in the 21st century for FFS, gone are the times when fans needed to be seperated.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 21:51:14 GMT 1
In an effort not to mention things that will upset the normal grumps on here I was just wondering why the same police force who look after the matches at Leeds and Bradford are happy to let the away fans mingle in different parts of the ground and do not enforce the same rules as would appear to apply at Huddersfield. if you go to Leeds you will know that all away fans are in the middle of two sections of the ground occupied by the home fans, no buses directly behind a separate away end,non of the home fans being locked in at the end of the game and whilst the atmosphere can be a little hot I have not seen any trouble either inside or outside the ground over the past few years. So if the police are happy with these arrangements at Leeds and Bradford what is different at Huddersfield particularly as for those ( who say the Police will not allow change) who do go to Leeds game will confirm that they moved the away supporters area around two years ago Why do you think the police wouldn't be happy to police similar setups at Town? As long as they get paid, they don't really care. In fact they'd probably prefer it if more funds could be recovered from Town matches?
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Post by softboy on Nov 25, 2014 21:57:01 GMT 1
I think the essence of what we are saying is not so much "we want this but the police want to do it differently" but most town fans I speak to really cannot understand why the police honestly (or not) believe the current arrangements are the safest for a match at the stadium - when in fact they are probably the least safest of any options available.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 21:57:48 GMT 1
The safest way would be to put Town fans in the South Stand & away fans in the North Stand - coaches either down at canalside or even at the bottom of the car park accross the river opposite the cinema complex. This way most away fans (particularly who came by coach) would not even meet the bulk of home fans who would be straight up to Town. However if you were trying to create a situation that was MOST likely to lead to trouble then what we have now is exactly that. For example: Home fans leaving the ground either side of away fans in the middle. Those on coaches have to cross town fans walking up to their right. Even when they get to the coaches do the stewards/police make them get on with a steward or bobby at the coach door, not on your life - what we have is a row of police/stewards in a line with fans (both home and away) trading insults. You would have thought that the police would know how to police a football match by now! The SAFEST (not that there's anything inherently unsafe about any of the options) would be to construct a tunnel from whats currently the driving range car park directly into the enclosure behind the South Stand. And that's what's going to happen, and is another reason why away fans will (and probably should) remain in that stand.
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Post by Norn Iron Terrier on Nov 25, 2014 22:00:56 GMT 1
Different police person in charge for each club, different grounds etc producing inconsistency galore. A post not to be ignored in this thread. Thanks, it will probably be ignored though, well by most and its a shame as this is the only board and profile I write under To expand I have it on good authority that the man in charge of town policing is quite uber cautious and the anxious type who is fairly new to the role compared to the Leeds match equivalent, leading to 'prevent trouble at all costs' rather than 'well lets be practical and if things do happen then oh well we will learn from that and we can't possibly stop all trouble can we'. Don't know about other Yorkshire teams in comparison but that is as good as your going to get in terms of Huddersfield and Leeds without going into ground layouts. Remember some away fans at Elland road are bussed in and cannot mingle at all and leave on buses without having contact with home fans, Millwall and the 'bubble trip', which I have never seen at town. So it could be stated that we are more relaxed with away fans at town than they are at Leeds.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 22:01:16 GMT 1
The club need to grow a pair and tell WYP we're having it how we want it whether they like it or not! We're in the 21st century for FFS, gone are the times when fans needed to be seperated. For a club relying on the financial input of one individual to stay (hopefully, its certainly not guaranteed) the right side of FFP regulations, it makes a lot of sense to aim towards whatever matchday operational strategy results in the lowest charge from the police. The club could easily "grow a pair"...but that could mean the difference from being able to sign players in January or not. I know what I'd prefer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 22:41:34 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 23:06:38 GMT 1
I've never heard of the Chadwick Lawrence Stand!
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Post by softboy on Nov 25, 2014 23:12:35 GMT 1
I quote "designed to have away fans in the Chadwick lawrence stand" because;
1) Direct & safe arrival & departure for travelling fans - no it does not. It creates miggling of both home & away fans as they leave the ground with home fans on both sides. 2) Minimun interaction and crossover with home fans - definately not. As above & also crossover to coaches & both home & away fans ( who are not on coaches) meeting as soon as they leave the ground & travelling up to town together. 3) Purpose built coach park behind it - no it does not. There are coach bays but some distance away (certainly not behind). So in essence the current arrangements meet non of the quoted needs of the safety people!
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 25, 2014 23:14:43 GMT 1
As anyone seen Scot Squad on bbc iplayer Scotland ?
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Post by Derby Blue on Nov 25, 2014 23:38:05 GMT 1
So in conclusion there's no reason safety wise why away fans can't be put in south Britannia and we get south stand...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 23:44:42 GMT 1
So in conclusion there's no reason safety wise why away fans can't be put in south Britannia and we get south stand... Nope. So you tell the 4000 loyal season ticket holders that they're being moved because maybe 1500 people might want to sit in the south Stand. Maybe. Sometimes. If they can be arsed.
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Post by Derby Blue on Nov 25, 2014 23:53:38 GMT 1
So in conclusion there's no reason safety wise why away fans can't be put in south Britannia and we get south stand... Nope. So you tell the 4000 loyal season ticket holders that they're being moved because maybe 1500 people might want to sit in the south Stand. Maybe. Sometimes. If they can be arsed. That's why I said SAFETY WISE. And I'm a season ticket holder there btw.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 26, 2014 9:16:27 GMT 1
It's simple: Valley Parade and Elland Road are older stadiums, with no real thought for crowd control safety in their design. The McAlpine is a 'new', purpose-built stadium. As such, following the Taylor Report, crowd safety was at the heart of the design. The South Stand was designed with the express purpose of housing away fans. That's it; no conspiracy, no contempt, no pandering. Good post I think your spot on there!
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 26, 2014 9:17:18 GMT 1
I've never heard of the Chadwick Lawrence Stand! Which ones that?
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