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Holt
Dec 21, 2014 20:51:28 GMT 1
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Dec 21, 2014 20:51:28 GMT 1
Not got the hump - why would I? Of course I'm happy to have a sensible debate on a forum and prepared to change/ tone down my view if someone presents a good counter argument. Truthfully I don't see anything of the like here though Ted? While you may think asking questiions only a scout or Holts accountant could answer to your satisfaction is clever I find it drool, predictable and churlish. It doesn't interest me "Do you know what we are paying him?" Seriously. Just yet another daft comment, we can all make a reasoned estimate but I can 90% predict where the debate will head if I did and well ... I can't be bother doing the "well if you don't know the wages you're opinion is wrong" thread. It's a bit boring and adds nothing other than wasting a bit of my weekend Finally, I actually wasn't taking the Micky when I said Merry Christmas. I'm not bothered by getting het up by someone I've never meet or are likely to so was leaving on pleasant note. It seems you took it as a slight. Happy to reply if you give a reason why you rate Holt and would continuing to push out the boat to keep him. You seem a fan of his, interested why? Mate you're taking me out of context .. You said we can get better... I asked. " ok if you think that then who ? " .. You see it as me spoiling for a fight .. I see it as me genuinely wondering who you had in mind ... And it was you who brought up money.,.. Ok if we are paying him 20 k per week I'm sure we could do better.. But we obviously aren't so surely judging whether he is value for money is surely futile without k owing what we are paying ? Happy xmas to you too it's not personal it's really not . Ted cross wires then as I'm not spoiling for a fight hence a "Merry Christmas". Anyway let's move on as we are followers of the same team at the end of the day As said I do not have specific names. I would prefer a young hungry up and comer to a seasoned pro. Who More often than not are on the wind down. Gray and Wilson fit the prototype -young regular scorers in the lower leagues who seem capable of stepping up to the Championship I don't have specific names but would anticipate we have the funds to pay a decent fee and few will be paying fees this Jan due to FFP so we should do well (like we did with Wells) Re wages and Holt all know is we've pushed the boat out for him. He left Norwich because Wigan offered him a big pay day which to be fair he had to take given his age and career (mostly spent in the lower leagues). He is not cheap though As for Holt the player. I just don't feel he's putting himself about like he did at first and IMO it's affecting the team (5 defeats in the last 7 is it). We need more up top as other teams are recycling the ball too easily. Holt at first showed he can do the target man job but recently he's not delivered or looked as committed and it's time for a refresh Right off to watch a film so apologises in advance if I don't reply
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Post by mightyterrier on Dec 21, 2014 23:58:24 GMT 1
What's your opoinion on Holt Ted, just out of interest I think he's been excellent . A little less excellent since finding out he's off back to Wigan .. But when we got him he was EXACTLY what we needed.. Given a thankless role mainly on his own up top... If we could secure him for the rest of the season I'd be happy, but maybe not beyond that.. Accusing him of basically not trying is a little harsh IMO Yep would agree with pretty much all of that
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 21, 2014 23:59:31 GMT 1
I think he's been excellent . A little less excellent since finding out he's off back to Wigan .. But when we got him he was EXACTLY what we needed.. Given a thankless role mainly on his own up top... If we could secure him for the rest of the season I'd be happy, but maybe not beyond that.. Accusing him of basically not trying is a little harsh IMO Yep would agree with pretty much all of that first time for everything
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 10:47:31 GMT 1
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Post by teddytheterrier on Dec 27, 2014 10:47:31 GMT 1
Glad he's gone back, been awful in recent weeks, since they've said he's off back to wigan he's been shit!
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 27, 2014 11:07:43 GMT 1
Unrecognisable yesterday to the player who first arrived on loan.
Its a got to be a mental thing. When he first came here he had no future at Wigan at all. Rosler had made that perfectly clear. So he was playing to impress and find a new deal, either with us or anyone else watching. So he charged around like a maniac, fought for everything like his life depended on it and looked fukll of premier division class.
yesterday ( and many games lately) his movement was barely anything. He was outfought easily by their defenders. He tried stupid little tricks to try and look clever rather than just doing the job.All in all he was garbage.
Looked like a player who knows hes going back to A RIVAL team in the division. Why would he want to win us games here when ultimately it might send his own team down? Im sure hes been professional about it, but thats got to be a subliminal factor in his sudden lack of motivation.
Glad hes going back. Whatever he brought to the team I thought hed be the ideal foil for Wells and thats hasn't happened. And his 2 goals in 15 games haven't even begun to make up for that IMO.
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 27, 2014 11:10:14 GMT 1
Aye, he can fuck off for me.
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Deleted
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 11:11:54 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 11:11:54 GMT 1
No loss IMO.
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 11:20:37 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 11:20:37 GMT 1
Unrecognisable yesterday to the player who first arrived on loan. Its a got to be a mental thing. When he first came here he had no future at Wigan at all. Rosler had made that perfectly clear. So he was playing to impress and find a new deal, either with us or anyone else watching. So he charged around like a maniac, fought for everything like his life depended on it and looked fukll of premier division class. yesterday ( and many games lately) his movement was barely anything. He was outfought easily by their defenders. He tried stupid little tricks to try and look clever rather than just doing the job.All in all he was garbage. Looked like a player who knows hes going back to A RIVAL team in the division. Why would he want to win us games here when ultimately it might send his own team down? Im sure hes been professional about it, but thats got to be a subliminal factor in his sudden lack of motivation. Glad hes going back. Whatever he brought to the team I thought hed be the ideal foil for Wells and thats hasn't happened. And his 2 goals in 15 games haven't even begun to make up for that IMO. Perhaps his manager should take some blame for being thick enough to play him as a left winger. Can we send Powell to Wigan with him?
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Post by terrierng on Dec 27, 2014 11:25:57 GMT 1
Unrecognisable yesterday to the player who first arrived on loan. Its a got to be a mental thing. When he first came here he had no future at Wigan at all. Rosler had made that perfectly clear. So he was playing to impress and find a new deal, either with us or anyone else watching. So he charged around like a maniac, fought for everything like his life depended on it and looked fukll of premier division class. yesterday ( and many games lately) his movement was barely anything. He was outfought easily by their defenders. He tried stupid little tricks to try and look clever rather than just doing the job.All in all he was garbage. Looked like a player who knows hes going back to A RIVAL team in the division. Why would he want to win us games here when ultimately it might send his own team down? Im sure hes been professional about it, but thats got to be a subliminal factor in his sudden lack of motivation. Glad hes going back. Whatever he brought to the team I thought hed be the ideal foil for Wells and thats hasn't happened. And his 2 goals in 15 games haven't even begun to make up for that IMO. Perhaps his manager should take some blame for being thick enough to play him as a left winger. Can we send Powell to Wigan with him? Off topic in blame the manager shocker
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 11:34:13 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 11:34:13 GMT 1
Perhaps his manager should take some blame for being thick enough to play him as a left winger. Can we send Powell to Wigan with him? Off topic in blame the manager shocker So you agree playing Holt as a left winger is a good idea? If we put Scannell at right back against Bolton and he has a mare, whose fault would it be? Lolley, Ward, Bunn, Hammill, Holmes, Wells and probably others I've forgotten should all have been selected to play in that position before Holt
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 11:40:26 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Dec 27, 2014 11:40:26 GMT 1
A winger sticks close to the touch line and looks to beat his full back and get crosses in. Holt wasn't playing as a winger or anything of the sort. Theres more to an attack than wingers and a central striker.
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 11:44:37 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 11:44:37 GMT 1
A winger sticks close to the touch line and looks to beat his full back and get crosses in. Holt wasn't playing as a winger or anything of the sort. Theres more to an attack than wingers and a central striker. It was 451. Vaughan up front with Scannell and Holt supporting from Wide, Bunn playing infront of Butterfield and Coady. Holt spent most of the first half very close to the left touchline (he ran it out enough times) and made a meal of a number of passes with his left foot
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Post by terrierng on Dec 27, 2014 11:50:49 GMT 1
Off topic in blame the manager shocker So you agree playing Holt as a left winger is a good idea? If we put Scannell at right back against Bolton and he has a mare, whose fault would it be? Lolley, Ward, Bunn, Hammill, Holmes, Wells and probably others I've forgotten should all have been selected to play in that position before Holt No not at all and if you read back on some of my posts i have criticised him on his selections, especially against brum,but you cant wait to have a dig,its been the same whoever has been in charge,cant recall you giving him credit when we win,maybe i missed that?
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 12:04:39 GMT 1
Post by fredcarno1 on Dec 27, 2014 12:04:39 GMT 1
I've got an awful feeling Powell will try to bring him back. He was playing well until Rosler got the bullet then he's gone all Alan Lee, throwing himself on the floor, missing gobbers and being generally ineffective. A veteran striker who doesn't look like scoring who is on big wages is exactly what we don't need. I'd sooner be trying to play our record signing and get him back playing with a bit of confidence.
The way Powell spoke about Holt post match you would have thought he'd been an absoloute revelation, not quite as I've seen it. Much rather us pick a youngster up from the lower leagues.
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 12:08:41 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 12:08:41 GMT 1
Worst of all we have been shit and now we are left with a confidence drained Wells. Shite business in my opinion. Shouldn't have been near the team for last 5 or 6 games. Good riddence. He obviously has an attitude/motivation problem. I think we have enough like that without taking another mercenary
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 12:09:31 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 12:09:31 GMT 1
So you agree playing Holt as a left winger is a good idea? If we put Scannell at right back against Bolton and he has a mare, whose fault would it be? Lolley, Ward, Bunn, Hammill, Holmes, Wells and probably others I've forgotten should all have been selected to play in that position before Holt No not at all and if you read back on some of my posts i have criticised him on his selections, especially against brum,but you cant wait to have a dig,its been the same whoever has been in charge,cant recall you giving him credit when we win,maybe i missed that? I havent been to many games. Seen a couple online but that was one of the first ive been to this season. Cant believe how much we've regressed in our style of play since the Fulham game when we looked like we would score every time we attacked. Yesterday was just like the Wednesday game, complete lack of fluidity and both sides chances seem to come from opposition mistakes
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 12:15:24 GMT 1
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Post by terriersyndrome on Dec 27, 2014 12:15:24 GMT 1
Worst of all we have been shit and now we are left with a confidence drained Wells. Shite business in my opinion. Shouldn't have been near the team for last 5 or 6 games. Good riddence. He obviously has an attitude/motivation problem. I think we have enough like that without taking another mercenary Yes we've been shit in spells, but 5 teams have been shitter than us & we're 5 points clear of the relegation zone.. A win against Bolton & we can potentially go 8 points clear at the half way stage.. We didn't lose yesterday, remember.. Also Wells has 9 goals so far, fair enough he's having a barren spell, but Holt has 2 in 15, that's piss poor imo.. Stop being a drama queen!
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 12:25:00 GMT 1
Post by fredcarno1 on Dec 27, 2014 12:25:00 GMT 1
Worst of all we have been shit and now we are left with a confidence drained Wells. Shite business in my opinion. Shouldn't have been near the team for last 5 or 6 games. Good riddence. He obviously has an attitude/motivation problem. I think we have enough like that without taking another mercenary Yes we've been shit in spells, but 5 teams have been shitter than us & we're 5 points clear of the relegation zone.. A win against Bolton & we can potentially go 8 points clear at the half way stage.. We didn't lose yesterday, remember.. Also Wells has 9 goals so far, fair enough he's having a barren spell, but Holt has 2 in 15, that's piss poor imo.. Stop being a drama queen! Agreed and all the more baffling as to why Powell has persisted with Holt when he's been so poor and is going back to Wigan. Could it be he doesn't rate Wells much ? After all he's been prepared to put him back on the bench even when he's scored in the previous game. I wouldn't mind betting we will get another loan striker in January or even heaven forbid Holt comes back leaving our record signing back on the bench.
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 12:31:30 GMT 1
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Post by terriersyndrome on Dec 27, 2014 12:31:30 GMT 1
I can understand why he does it on occasions.. Particularly away from home against the bigger clubs, but to do it at home against Birmingham was baffling! Vaughan & Wells will be a far more dynamic partnership imo & score more between them.. Holt has been a waste of space since he knew Wigan wanted him back.
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 13:10:42 GMT 1
Post by In sooth- - on Dec 27, 2014 13:10:42 GMT 1
Surely Holt was often told to move towards the left in attempt to hold the ball(away from two central defenders) hold on, then engage with one or two midfielders.
Unfortunately when he did, "they didn`t" or were too slow to react.
It very rarely did and he got frustrated.
So did I and thousands of our fans.
So it is back to the drawing board. We need midfielders to really react quickly and attack the opposite defence.
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 13:12:55 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Dec 27, 2014 13:12:55 GMT 1
A winger sticks close to the touch line and looks to beat his full back and get crosses in. Holt wasn't playing as a winger or anything of the sort. Theres more to an attack than wingers and a central striker. It was 451. Vaughan up front with Scannell and Holt supporting from Wide, Bunn playing infront of Butterfield and Coady. Holt spent most of the first half very close to the left touchline (he ran it out enough times) and made a meal of a number of passes with his left foot Never been into all this obsession with formations. For one thing it completely changes whether a team is in possession or defending. When a full back pushes forward you should become 352. When defending you're 442 or 451. Either way, he may have not been the central striker but he certainly wasn't a winger.
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 13:16:07 GMT 1
Post by fredcarno1 on Dec 27, 2014 13:16:07 GMT 1
Doesn't matter what formation the manager claims to play of late as we almost inevitably end up with the strikers isolated, a packed midfield and a defence camped in or around our own box.
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rocky
Andy Booth Terrier
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 13:21:21 GMT 1
Post by rocky on Dec 27, 2014 13:21:21 GMT 1
It was 451. Vaughan up front with Scannell and Holt supporting from Wide, Bunn playing infront of Butterfield and Coady. Holt spent most of the first half very close to the left touchline (he ran it out enough times) and made a meal of a number of passes with his left foot Never been into all this obsession with formations. For one thing it completely changes whether a team is in possession or defending. When a full back pushes forward you should become 352. When defending you're 442 or 451. Either way, he may have not been the central striker but he certainly wasn't a winger. Me neither mate - they're just a series of numbers. Those that are obsessed with it have no idea what they're talking about.
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 14:21:53 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 14:21:53 GMT 1
It was 451. Vaughan up front with Scannell and Holt supporting from Wide, Bunn playing infront of Butterfield and Coady. Holt spent most of the first half very close to the left touchline (he ran it out enough times) and made a meal of a number of passes with his left foot Never been into all this obsession with formations. For one thing it completely changes whether a team is in possession or defending. When a full back pushes forward you should become 352. When defending you're 442 or 451. Either way, he may have not been the central striker but he certainly wasn't a winger. What about Scannell then? He was doing the exact same job as Holt on the other side. I could only dream of knowing as much about football as the likes of Rocky
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Post by terrierng on Dec 27, 2014 15:37:35 GMT 1
No not at all and if you read back on some of my posts i have criticised him on his selections, especially against brum,but you cant wait to have a dig,its been the same whoever has been in charge,cant recall you giving him credit when we win,maybe i missed that? I havent been to many games. Seen a couple online but that was one of the first ive been to this season. Cant believe how much we've regressed in our style of play since the Fulham game when we looked like we would score every time we attacked. Yesterday was just like the Wednesday game, complete lack of fluidity and both sides chances seem to come from opposition mistakes Fair enough,anyway need a favour pmed you
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 21:09:08 GMT 1
Doesn't matter what formation the manager claims to play of late as we almost inevitably end up with the strikers isolated, a packed midfield and a defence camped in or around our own box. Holt not playing tomorrow see how many times we fail to hold it up front now
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Holt
Dec 27, 2014 23:21:35 GMT 1
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Post by impact on Dec 27, 2014 23:21:35 GMT 1
Never been into all this obsession with formations. For one thing it completely changes whether a team is in possession or defending. When a full back pushes forward you should become 352. When defending you're 442 or 451. Either way, he may have not been the central striker but he certainly wasn't a winger. What about Scannell then? He was doing the exact same job as Holt on the other side. I could only dream of knowing as much about football as the likes of Rocky Holt wasn't as defensive as Scannell but his playing on the left was more out of necessity than being a plan. Otherwise anyone who plays a target man on the left wing wants shooting. It's 3-5-2 but Robinson has to play as full back and Smith essentially is at right back. Meaning we have a (defensive) winger on the right but not on the left. Which is why we keep getting so much pressure on that side - Robinson is left all alone except when either Holt or Hogg goes to help him out.
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Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Dec 27, 2014 23:34:33 GMT 1
Pritchard was the best player on the park the other week. I thought we missed a Clayton type player myself yesterday. Ssshhhh, we had their pants down remember? 99% of posters could see that that comment was a joke aimed at the boro fan.
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 28, 2014 1:51:57 GMT 1
Doesn't matter what formation the manager claims to play of late as we almost inevitably end up with the strikers isolated, a packed midfield and a defence camped in or around our own box. Holt not playing tomorrow see how many times we fail to hold it up front now The way Holts been failing to hold it up front for the past few weeks- about the same probably. Whoever plays up there instead will put a sight more effort and commitment into it than he showed at Rotherham though, Im sure of that.
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Holt
Dec 28, 2014 10:05:31 GMT 1
Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Dec 28, 2014 10:05:31 GMT 1
Holt def injured
JV and Wells to rip them a new one ( hopefully )
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