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Post by patfield on Dec 23, 2014 11:17:11 GMT 1
There is a mix up between feeling pissed off and depression. Depression is a mental illness and people cannot be shaken out of it. Hopefully Clarke makes a full recovery and gets the treatment he needs. Good luck to the lad.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Dec 23, 2014 11:22:13 GMT 1
As posted previously. I can thoroughly recommend a book called "Depression..curse of the strong" for anyone with very low mood, stress or depression. Very enlightening and helpful. Best wishes to Clarke and his family.
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 23, 2014 11:29:07 GMT 1
Regardless of Clarke Carlisle, the lack of understanding of mental illness from some here is staggering.
Not all mental illnesses are alike but I'd think that if someone was unwell enough to want to end their life then there was a strong possibility they would have a diminished ability to realise the consequences of their actions.
That's not to take away from how the driver must be feeling and the feelings of others involved.
This is a point in general, no speculation on yesterday's accident.
Illnesses and circumstances can differ. My best mate hung himself at home and left a note on the front door telling his mother not to enter and to call an ambulance. There's no tidy way of doing it at the end of the day. On the other hand, some folk are so ill and in mental pain they can't see outside of that and realise the pain and horror their actions will have on others.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 11:48:27 GMT 1
Tricky issue. The mutterings and outright anger I heard in London a few moths ago when news broke of 'another jumper' on the tube turned my stomach. The anger being that passengers might miss their evening gym sessions.
However, I think it's understandable to have some feelings of regret when other people's lives are put in danger, as seems was the case here. Again tho, very little reporting in this story so we don't know the facts.
As has been said very well above, when someone is in such a dark place unfortunately others safety does not even come into consideration which for someone like Carlisle, who did a lot for others, just shows how unwell he will have been.
My thoughts are with him, any injured motorists in my old home town of York, and those poor Glaswegians run down by a bin lorry ffs, while enjoying a drink or two. Life can be so cruel.
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Post by kes on Dec 23, 2014 11:53:10 GMT 1
The number of people - mainly young men - that we lose to suicide in this country ever year is truly staggering. If this was a disease there would be an national outcry.
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Post by kes on Dec 23, 2014 11:54:34 GMT 1
I don`t know why a silly cartoon has been put in my post above this not a subject a take lightly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 11:58:49 GMT 1
A life too short is a book to read if you want to try and understand depression. Robert Enke seemed to have everything, fame, family, money, the best treatment you can get.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 23, 2014 12:05:54 GMT 1
Has it actually been established as FACT that this was a suicide attempt .. If not then we are purely speculating
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Post by Gordon Tuckers silky skills on Dec 23, 2014 12:10:19 GMT 1
I don`t know why a silly cartoon has been put in my post above this not a subject a take lightly. I don't think he meant to, if you type suicide it will replace it with the icon for it, the same if you type source, the icon will show in the sentence,
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 23, 2014 12:20:21 GMT 1
is another one.. very annoying Type in the year the Football League was founded and you get a pint of Guinness.
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Post by 52bob on Dec 23, 2014 12:37:47 GMT 1
Just checking out a fix for this problem
Waive, siucide, sauce
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 23, 2014 12:40:26 GMT 1
As Ted rightfully states, all we know so far is that this is an accident. Anything else, right now, is pure speculation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 12:42:40 GMT 1
Regardless of Clarke Carlisle, the lack of understanding of mental illness from some here is staggering. Not all mental illnesses are alike but I'd think that if someone was unwell enough to want to end their life then there was a strong possibility they would have a diminished ability to realise the consequences of their actions. That's not to take away from how the driver must be feeling and the feelings of others involved. This is a point in general, no speculation on yesterday's accident. Illnesses and circumstances can differ. My best mate hung himself at home and left a note on the front door telling his mother not to enter and to call an ambulance. There's no tidy way of doing it at the end of the day. On the other hand, some folk are so ill and in mental pain they can't see outside of that and realise the pain and horror their actions will have on others. Thankyou for that, I couldn't have put it so well.
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Post by townfan on Dec 23, 2014 13:32:06 GMT 1
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Post by kes on Dec 23, 2014 13:37:56 GMT 1
I don`t know why a silly cartoon has been put in my post above this not a subject a take lightly. I don't think he meant to, if you type suicide it will replace it with the icon for it, the same if you type source, the icon will show in the sentence, I was referring to my own post not being critical of others.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 13:42:20 GMT 1
Puts everything else into perspective ....... thoughts and prayers are with you Clarke. Yes sad indeed having read is book and his history it brings us call down to earh and with the tragic events in glasgow wher among the dead were a grandad and grandmother and grandaughter from the same family anything on here is insignificant
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 23, 2014 14:02:08 GMT 1
accidents happen, you can only work to minimise the numbers or their consequences. Maybe if you ask a police officer if they ever arrest anyone now who at least does not claim to have some type of mental illness???
having worked exclusively with people who have every single 'right' in the world to claim or even to have mental illnesses for the past 10 years or so, im still amazed and humbled every day with their positive attitudes and their overwhelming desire not to let it 'get them'.. I am then referred to a number in a row who needed 'help' due to 'crushing' mental health problems, who after researching them found quite a number had 'seen nothing and done nothing' other than being able to leave and then claim for it.
Carlisle is a successful, intelligent man and if he has put himself, seriously in harms way after seeking help and being able to openly admit his problems then clearly this is true mental health 'disease' and should be separated very early from the growing army of 'attention seekers and apologists' using it as a means of income or to avoid any responsibility, for anything much...
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Post by Porrohman on Dec 23, 2014 14:12:51 GMT 1
is another one.. very annoying Type in the year the Football League was founded and you get a pint of Guinness. Really ? That's my Xmas sorted then, how do they deliver it Sent from my GT-I9505 using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 14:16:27 GMT 1
accidents happen, you can only work to minimise the numbers or their consequences. Maybe if you ask a police officer if they ever arrest anyone now who at least does not claim to have some type of mental illness??? having worked exclusively with people who have every single 'right' in the world to claim or even to have mental illnesses for the past 10 years or so, im still amazed and humbled every day with their positive attitudes and their overwhelming desire not to let it 'get them'.. I am then referred to a number in a row who needed 'help' due to 'crushing' mental health problems, who after researching them found quite a number had 'seen nothing and done nothing' other than being able to leave and then claim for it. Carlisle is a successful, intelligent man and if he has put himself, seriously in harms way after seeking help and being able to openly admit his problems then clearly this is true mental health 'disease' and should be separated very early from the growing army of 'attention seekers and apologists' using it as a means of income or to avoid any responsibility, for anything much... Avery well respected post and well put
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Post by NicMcTerrier on Dec 23, 2014 15:27:13 GMT 1
Terribly sad for all concerned and obviously his mind was not fully logical at the time but this is precisely why he can be expecting a prison sentence in due course. Where have you been? Attempted Suicide was decriminalised over 50 years ago! Attempted ( and actual) ssuicide may have been decriminalised but not where others are put at risk. Of course we don't know the facts and perhaps I shouldn't have said anything - I certainly didn't mean to imply this was somehow justified. However, the fact is that I work in a prison and I see people in there for this very offence - usually involving attempts to jump into traffic, in front of trains or arson. And don't even get me started on judges who put people in prison 'for their own safety'. Prisons are full of people who shouldn't be there.
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Post by wasp on Dec 23, 2014 15:48:05 GMT 1
Attention seeker!
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 23, 2014 15:52:37 GMT 1
Its a difficult premise to deal with. Clearly if you have no thought for your own safety/life and wish to do yourself serious harm then you may well be a danger to others. It seems to be pretty dependant on to where you are when the serious thoughts about self harm or ending it all are strongest. That could just as easily be driving down the motorway or crossing a bridge as being at home on your own.
I would be surprised if this is, as it appears to be a serious attempt to commit suicide, if Carlisle has rung anyone first or left any notes etc, ie; he didn't want to be stopped or talked out of it, he didn't want attention or help, it may well have just seemed 'right'...
Can we 'secure' all the people who might do this?? can we keep them secured?? probably not.. but it is a reason as to why a lot of them are in prison after we closed all the secure units for the obviously mentally ill..
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 23, 2014 15:54:33 GMT 1
btw, I didn't put the cartoon for 'killing yourself' in the above..it just appeared. I have never been involved in dealing with a humorous act of taking your own life..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 17:33:53 GMT 1
This is another reason why using the app is better tjsn the website.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 17:34:56 GMT 1
btw, I didn't put the cartoon for 'killing yourself' in the above..it just appeared. I have never been involved in dealing with a humorous act of taking your own life.. You have however shot yourself in the foot a few times.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 23, 2014 17:43:41 GMT 1
post isn't really about me... I have some experience with suicides and suicidal people but no personal experience of being depressed more than any everyday person gets depressed at times. I know there are suicidal people and people who talk about being suicidal, I know there is a massive and obvious difference.
as for shooting myself in the foot, I try hard not to but as a human I err...
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 23, 2014 17:44:22 GMT 1
did it again you see!!!!! I forgot...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 17:47:40 GMT 1
Where have you been? Attempted Suicide was decriminalised over 50 years ago! Attempted ( and actual) ssuicide may have been decriminalised but not where others are put at risk. Of course we don't know the facts and perhaps I shouldn't have said anything - I certainly didn't mean to imply this was somehow justified. However, the fact is that I work in a prison and I see people in there for this very offence - usually involving attempts to jump into traffic, in front of trains or arson. And don't even get me started on judges who put people in prison 'for their own safety'. Prisons are full of people who shouldn't be there. Now I wonder who it was that thought closing down our mental health hospitals was a good idea? Damn!I have to keep telling myself 'don't get involved in politics or religion'.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 23, 2014 18:46:37 GMT 1
we had to close em down, they were full of drunks and junkies.. the truly mentally ill couldn't get a look in because they were not vocal enough..
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 23, 2014 18:55:52 GMT 1
Now I wonder who it was that thought closing down our mental health hospitals was a good idea? Surely not the same one who thought it was wise to deny children the basic nutrients of milk?
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