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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 26, 2015 16:51:35 GMT 1
I think its about time we didn't need to say we feel for the 'peripheral victims' of mentally ill or alledgedly mentally ill people.. 'grace of god'?? maybe, but picking the real ones from the self induced is the key..
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Post by Torquayterrier on Mar 26, 2015 18:04:33 GMT 1
But preferably don't do it whilst in control of a plane full of passengers including women, kids and infants. You'll look like a selfish tw@t.
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Post by Venezuelan Pete on Mar 26, 2015 18:08:30 GMT 1
Can we not discuss methods of suiciDe please! Not appropriate for the thread or the message board.
Thanks
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Post by Stewpot on Mar 26, 2015 19:33:53 GMT 1
I know people who take their own lives are not generally in the best of health. However, is there a need to take out 150 people in one go in the most horrendous way possible. I can only imagine the thoughts of those poor people on board seeing the captain banging on the re-enforced Kevlar cockpit door, and suddenly realising he wasn`t going to be let in. Stuff of nightmares - RIP to all who suffered.
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Post by Stewpot on Mar 26, 2015 20:00:36 GMT 1
This will a be a man with depression having a psychotic episode, which is just sad. Since something along those lines will happen to one in four of us, it's actually pretty normal. But most of us don't fly airliners, and won't get it so bad. If you are feeling suicidal and want drama, to flick the cockpit door to "locked", spin the desired altitude to 0, turn up your headphones and take a ride to an instant painless death must be a great temptation.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 10:38:18 GMT 1
Can we not discuss methods of suiciDe please! Not appropriate for the thread or the message board. Thanks Point taken, apologies to anyone offended.
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Post by Solid Snake on Jul 4, 2015 13:44:48 GMT 1
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Post by 3Pipe on Jul 4, 2015 13:52:47 GMT 1
Horrible twist.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Jul 4, 2015 13:53:02 GMT 1
Awful news, i know suicide is a ropy subject, but if your going to kill yourself don't affect others!
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Post by teddytheterrier on Jul 4, 2015 13:53:27 GMT 1
Rip
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 13:58:42 GMT 1
Awful news, i know suicide is a ropy subject, but if your going to kill yourself don't affect others! Killing yourself is always going to affect others, whether it's the person who discovers you, friends or family someone is going to be affected. RIP.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Jul 4, 2015 14:11:25 GMT 1
Oh Jesus that's absolutely terrible. Always said though that suicide is probably one of the most self centred things anyone can do in that it shows complete disregard for anyone affected by you going or in this instance the method. I know some of the time it's brought on by ill mental health but with good support and help you can help yourself and there's no excuse not to other than refusal. In my opinion if you're completely committed to doing it and have the determination to do it then doing away from others (bridges, trains, traffic) is the key and only when all other offers of help and support haven't worked out. It's a very sad story and I can't image what Carlise must be thinking now. Your actions always have concequences, it's how we deal with them that matters - what a shame people don't think of this before following a certain path.
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Post by dyhterrier on Jul 4, 2015 15:10:16 GMT 1
Oh Jesus that's absolutely terrible. Always said though that suicide is probably one of the most self centred things anyone can do in that it shows complete disregard for anyone affected by you going or in this instance the method. I know some of the time it's brought on by ill mental health but with good support and help you can help yourself and there's no excuse not to other than refusal. In my opinion if you're completely committed to doing it and have the determination to do it then doing away from others (bridges, trains, traffic) is the key and only when all other offers of help and support haven't worked out. It's a very sad story and I can't image what Carlise must be thinking now. Your actions always have concequences, it's how we deal with them that matters - what a shame people don't think of this before following a certain path. People often say nobody in their right mind would do something like that, that's the whole point, they're not in their right mind. If you knew or worked with people suffering major depression, you would find it easier to understand.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 4, 2015 15:48:57 GMT 1
barbie..
the answer that the world has fully accepted is above..
another 5 years and nobody is going to be responsible for their own actions.. I blame the Police, no idea why but f-ck it, why not...
I have clearly had serious mental health issues at different times in my life, unfortunately for me bailing out wasnt an option or looking to lay off the blame for bad decisions or just stupidity wasnt allowed then...
I have met a number of truly mentally ill people, not one knew their rights or their benefit rights, not one was on mind altering drugs or was a piss head and all were hell bent on killing themselves without ringing someone first or leaving daft messages on facebook/twitter..
someone will start banging on about chemical imbalances etc shortly.. most are self induced imbalances.. excuses used to start on drugs/alcohol or being filled with daft drugs that just make your life worse has merely added to the 'problem'.....its about time depression and other diagnosed illnesses were treated with placebos or any other methods that dont involve mind altering substances..
human beings are supposed to be up and down, its called life.. medicating it or fuelling it with ale/drugs does not help...
chronic gamblers, junkies and alcoholics have a serious medical/mental health problems.. smokers have a 'filthy habit', go figure that one???
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Post by Barbieterrier on Jul 4, 2015 16:23:20 GMT 1
Oh Jesus that's absolutely terrible. Always said though that suicide is probably one of the most self centred things anyone can do in that it shows complete disregard for anyone affected by you going or in this instance the method. I know some of the time it's brought on by ill mental health but with good support and help you can help yourself and there's no excuse not to other than refusal. In my opinion if you're completely committed to doing it and have the determination to do it then doing away from others (bridges, trains, traffic) is the key and only when all other offers of help and support haven't worked out. It's a very sad story and I can't image what Carlise must be thinking now. Your actions always have concequences, it's how we deal with them that matters - what a shame people don't think of this before following a certain path. People often say nobody in their right mind would do something like that, that's the whole point, they're not in their right mind. If you knew or worked with people suffering major depression, you would find it easier to understand. Whoops I do unfortunately in being a debt management counsellor and the first thing our charity does is rather than offer them financial advice we refer them to support groups, make them appointments with them sometimes even accompany them because there's no point in helping them with the symptoms if we don't support them and remedy the cause. They must want help to approach us in the first place. Dealing with that for 6 years isn't going to change my mind set unfortunately
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 4, 2015 16:34:26 GMT 1
barbie..
quite a lot of people dont want help, they want attention and then for someone else to do it for them... they want sympathy and for the debt to dissapear because they dont see a personal responsibility for it...
help has connotations of you having to do something whilst you are given advice and support.. what they want is for someone else to magically make it all go away and then ring them on their i phone 6 and give them the good news whilst they are in the pub...or out back having a smoke...
if you are on the verge of being in the shit every day if something goes wrong, then you have spent too much and your forward plan was shit...if you buy beer and fags and have an i phone 6 and you cant feed your kids, you are an arse...you dont need help you need a slap..
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jul 4, 2015 17:00:26 GMT 1
barbie.. quite a lot of people dont want help, they want attention and then for someone else to do it for them... they want sympathy and for the debt to dissapear because they dont see a personal responsibility for it... help has connotations of you having to do something whilst you are given advice and support.. what they want is for someone else to magically make it all go away and then ring them on their i phone 6 and give them the good news whilst they are in the pub...or out back having a smoke... if you are on the verge of being in the shit every day if something goes wrong, then you have spent too much and your forward plan was shit...if you buy beer and fags and have an i phone 6 and you cant feed your kids, you are an arse...you dont need help you need a slap.. If you unexpectedly lost your job, then you would most likely be on the verge of being in the shit. If you've been conned out of a load of money then yes, your forward planning probably was shit - but you'd probably still be worthy of a bit of help & yes, sympathy. If you massively overspent on crap, that doesn't mean you can't change & turn your life around, nor does it mean you shouldn't get help to do so. Most people who overspend don't realise they're overspending. I know a few people on colossal salaries who regularly complain that they can't afford stuff that I can comfortably afford on less than 20% of what they're earning. If you buy beer & fags but can't feed your kids, then I would have to agree that you deserve a slap. If you are that kid though, whose parents prioritise beer & fags over a bowl of cereal for you in the morning then you probably need somebody to help your parents see that what they're doing is a bit shit.
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Post by Tinpot on Jul 4, 2015 17:06:23 GMT 1
Oh Jesus that's absolutely terrible. Always said though that suicide is probably one of the most self centred things anyone can do in that it shows complete disregard for anyone affected by you going or in this instance the method. I know some of the time it's brought on by ill mental health but with good support and help you can help yourself and there's no excuse not to other than refusal. In my opinion if you're completely committed to doing it and have the determination to do it then doing away from others (bridges, trains, traffic) is the key and only when all other offers of help and support haven't worked out. It's a very sad story and I can't image what Carlise must be thinking now. Your actions always have concequences, it's how we deal with them that matters - what a shame people don't think of this before following a certain path. People often say nobody in their right mind would do something like that, that's the whole point, they're not in their right mind. If you knew or worked with people suffering major depression, you would might find it easier to understand. Even if you know somebody like that (& chances are you do know somebody who has suffered with depression at some level), it's still difficult to understand. I've had a few demons to deal with & there are some people close to me who have been suicidal - I still struggle to understand. Any organ in your body can get sick. Yet when it's the brain, there's often not as much sympathy as for any other vital organ.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Jul 4, 2015 17:15:22 GMT 1
barbie.. quite a lot of people dont want help, they want attention and then for someone else to do it for them... they want sympathy and for the debt to dissapear because they dont see a personal responsibility for it... I completely agree totally with this statement. The forementioned those that get stuck due to a change in circumstances are the ones that seek help first. But you do have those that are lazy. That seem to thrive on self destruct behaviour and won't help themselves or even worse push all those trying to help them away. I do understand the illness side of things but it is an illness same as any other in that if you don't seek help for a remedy it will just get worse and worse. Even worse you could end up doing something that affects others so badly they may never recover - all because you failed to recognise what was happening, what you was doing and for whatever reasons (sometimes excuses) just wouldn't get the support or help needed. That's when accepting responsibly for your actions come in not making excuses because you've messed up.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Jul 4, 2015 17:16:14 GMT 1
Sorry admins I know it's not in the quote box properly blah - it's what happens sometimes doing it on my phone don't know why
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 19:40:47 GMT 1
Why do people find it OK to use a digitised cartoon image of someone shooting themselves in the head (through the mouth) acceptable? Especially in this case!!!!
It's not a good thing.
Should go.
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Post by 3Pipe on Jul 4, 2015 19:42:44 GMT 1
Agreed.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jul 4, 2015 19:52:22 GMT 1
Why do people find it OK to use a digitised cartoon image of someone shooting themselves in the head (through the mouth) acceptable? Especially in this case!!!! It's not a good thing. Should go. Try typing in the word "suicide" without that icon coming up. It's a factor of the site, not insensitivity on the poster's part. .
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Post by 3Pipe on Jul 4, 2015 20:58:35 GMT 1
I think he knows that.
Admins should get rid of that thingy if they can.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 4, 2015 21:20:02 GMT 1
A couple of observations:
The truly suicidal often do not do some drastic act as "a cry for hlep" (which some have labelled here as attention seeking. If you are really suicidal, you're not thinking rationally, therefore the impact on others is not liekly to enter your thinking - if you are capable of those thoughts you're unlikely to actually be truly suicidal.
To say about taking yout own life that "I know some of the time it's brought on by mental health” is probably one of the stupidest sentences I've ever read. Seriously.
The increased rates of diagnosis of mental health have various factors, but chief among them is an increasing understanding of what forms mental illness takes, as well as a change of perception meaning that gradually the stigma associated with it is being eroded. Some of the comments here show there is still a long way to go however.
Mental illness is just that - an illness. No one chooses to have it, many people don't realise they have it at all, but many other people are completely ignorant to the causes, symptoms and impact it can have. When I was suffering from chronic clinical depression which almost cost me everything I hold dear, I was told by people that depression wasn't real, that I had nothing to be depressed about, that I needed to "have a word with myself" and more. Thankfully, I never got to a point of feeling suicidal, although I believe I was on that path.
Imagine you know someone with cancer. Try and imagine how they feel. It's impossible, isn't it? You know it's shit for them, but you can never really understand what they're thinking and feeling. The best analogy I can give is that depression is like an emotional cancer. Caught early and treated and you can get rid of it with minimal long term effects, but the longer it's left, the more profound the after-effects, and it can kill you. And before anyone castigates me for comparing the two, one of the triggers (I believe) was watching my mum die from cancer, and my wife is in recover from it too - so I do not make the comparison lightly.
Clarke Carlisle is a bright guy who got very ill. His illness led him to take action in a way that the mentally healthy cannot really understand, and it now seems the long term impact caused another person to become mentally unwell to such an extent that they took their own life. Let's agree that this is fucking tragic and not blame anyone or belittle their circumstances
RIP.
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Post by mightyterrier on Jul 4, 2015 21:41:53 GMT 1
A couple of observations: The truly suicidal often do not do some drastic act as "a cry for hlep" (which some have labelled here as attention seeking. If you are really suicidal, you're not thinking rationally, therefore the impact on others is not liekly to enter your thinking - if you are capable of those thoughts you're unlikely to actually be truly suicidal. To say about taking yout own life that "I know some of the time it's brought on by mental health” is probably one of the stupidest sentences I've ever read. Seriously. The increased rates of diagnosis of mental health have various factors, but chief among them is an increasing understanding of what forms mental illness takes, as well as a change of perception meaning that gradually the stigma associated with it is being eroded. Some of the comments here show there is still a long way to go however. Mental illness is just that - an illness. No one chooses to have it, many people don't realise they have it at all, but many other people are completely ignorant to the causes, symptoms and impact it can have. When I was suffering from chronic clinical depression which almost cost me everything I hold dear, I was told by people that depression wasn't real, that I had nothing to be depressed about, that I needed to "have a word with myself" and more. Thankfully, I never got to a point of feeling suicidal, although I believe I was on that path. Imagine you know someone with cancer. Try and imagine how they feel. It's impossible, isn't it? You know it's shit for them, but you can never really understand what they're thinking and feeling. The best analogy I can give is that depression is like an emotional cancer. Caught early and treated and you can get rid of it with minimal long term effects, but the longer it's left, the more profound the after-effects, and it can kill you. And before anyone castigates me for comparing the two, one of the triggers (I believe) was watching my mum die from cancer, and my wife is in recover from it too - so I do not make the comparison lightly. Clarke Carlisle is a bright guy who got very ill. His illness led him to take action in a way that the mentally healthy cannot really understand, and it now seems the long term impact caused another person to become mentally unwell to such an extent that they took their own life. Let's agree that this is fucking tragic and not blame anyone or belittle their circumstances RIP. A great post, very well described and eloquently presented. Mental health still has a long way to go to have the parity it deserves alongside physical ill health and as you have rightly said this thread is a stark reminder of this.
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Post by Tinpot on Jul 4, 2015 23:06:12 GMT 1
Sometimes there's a post that's made on this site that makes me just stop everything. A post that makes me lost for words.
Grimois' post above is one of those.
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Post by ACW on Jul 5, 2015 0:43:16 GMT 1
Oh Jesus that's absolutely terrible. Always said though that s uicide is probably one of the most self centred things anyone can do in that it shows complete disregard for anyone affected by you going or in this instance the method. I know some of the time it's brought on by ill mental health but with good support and help you can help yourself and there's no excuse not to other than refusal. In my opinion if you're completely committed to doing it and have the determination to do it then doing away from others (bridges, trains, traffic) is the key and only when all other offers of help and support haven't worked out. It's a very sad story and I can't image what Carlise must be thinking now. Your actions always have concequences, it's how we deal with them that matters - what a shame people don't think of this before following a certain path. With the greatest of respect, unless you have personal experience of being suicidal you do not understand. I have experience from both sides. My brother committed s uicide at the age of 23 and I have regularly had s uicidal thoughts throughout my teenage and adult life. I haven't acted up them (obviously) but I have them pretty regularly and they are real. I therefore understand both sides having been a affected by the s uicide of a loved one and having had the same thoughts myself. Of course s uicide is self-centred, but it is also borne of desperation. Do you know what its like to want to take your own life? To be so utterly miserable, and powerless to change things for the better? Perhaps it shows a disregard for others, but when you are in such a desperate situation mentally it is extremely hard to think of others. My brother had a loving family and dozens of friends. He was a funny, caring and popular lad - far more so than I will ever be. But, he obviously got to a point where he couldn't face life anymore. He was an intelligent bloke so he would have known how much his death would have affected others, but the suicidal feeling overrode these. The way he took his life didn't directly affect anyone else in the way Carlisle s uicide attempt did, but his death affected plenty of people afterwards. I don't blame him though - I miss him terribly, and often think that if there was any justice in the world he would still be here making people happy as he did when he was alive, but he isn't. He was obviously in a terrible place mentally and felt he couldn't go on - for whatever reason support was not an option and he decided to end his life. Its affected his loved ones terribly, but none of us to my knowledge apportion any blame to him. Now, don't get me wrong, what has happened to the driver who hit (edit: who helped ...) Carlisle is an absolute tragedy and my heart goes out to his family and loved ones, but to suggest Carlisle was in any mental state to rationally weigh up the consequences of his actions is ridiculous. He was so desperate and mentally ill he probably had little concept of how his actions would affect others. In the same way the driver will have reached a similar mental state. In criticising Carlisle do you extend the same blame to the driver? His death will also have affected many. This situation does not need blame. It is a tragic set of events for all involved. And I mean ALL. Apportioning blame achieves NOTHING. Why do we always look for someone to blame? Your views strike me as those of someone trying to apply rational thought to an irrational situation. And if you haven't been suicidal yourself you cannot understand. I feel for EVERYONE in this tragic story - no one is to blame.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Jul 5, 2015 0:48:42 GMT 1
Oh Jesus that's absolutely terrible. Always said though that suicide is probably one of the most self centred things anyone can do in that it shows complete disregard for anyone affected by you going or in this instance the method. I know some of the time it's brought on by ill mental health but with good support and help you can help yourself and there's no excuse not to other than refusal. In my opinion if you're completely committed to doing it and have the determination to do it then doing away from others (bridges, trains, traffic) is the key and only when all other offers of help and support haven't worked out. It's a very sad story and I can't image what Carlise must be thinking now. Your actions always have concequences, it's how we deal with them that matters - what a shame people don't think of this before following a certain path. With the greatest of respect, unless you have personal experience of being suicidal you do not understand. I have experience from both sides. My brother committed s uicide at the age of 23 and I have regularly had s uicidal thoughts throughout my teenage and adult life. I haven't acted up them (obviously) but I have them pretty regularly and they are real. I therefore understand both sides having been a affected by the s uicide of a loved one and having had the same thoughts myself. Of course s uicide is self-centred, but it is also borne of desperation. Do you know what its like to want to take your own life? To be so utterly miserable, and powerless to change things for the better? Perhaps it shows a disregard for others, but when you are in such a desperate situation mentally it is extremely hard to think of others. My brother had a loving family and dozens of friends. He was a funny, caring and popular lad - far more so than I will ever be. But, he obviously got to a point where he couldn't face life anymore. He was an intelligent bloke so he would have known how much his death would have affected others, but the suicidal feeling overrode these. The way he took his life didn't directly affect anyone else in the way Carlisle suicide attempt did, but his death affected plenty of people afterwards. I don't blame him though - I miss him terribly, and often think that if there was any justice in the world he would still be here making people happy as he did when he was alive, but he isn't. He was obviously in a terrible place mentally and felt he couldn't go on - for whatever reason support was not an option and he decided to end his life. Its affected his loved ones terribly, but none of us to my knowledge apportion any blame to him. Now, don't get me wrong, what has happened to the driver who hit Carlisle is an absolute tragedy and my heart goes out to his family and loved ones, but to suggest Carlisle was in any mental state to rationally weigh up the consequences of his actions is ridiculous. He was so desperate and mentally ill he probably had little concept of how his actions would affect others. In the same way the driver will have reached a similar mental state. In criticising Carlisle do you extend the same blame to the driver? His death will also have affected many. This situation does not need blame. It is a tragic set of events for all involved. And I mean ALL. Apportioning blame achieves NOTHING. Why do we always look for someone to blame? Your views strike me as those of someone trying to apply rational thought to an irrational situation. And if you haven't been suicidal yourself you cannot understand. I feel for EVERYONE in this tragic story - no one is to blame. Sorry for your loss. It's a massive grey area. Guess I am very rational at most times in my thinking but have dealt with irrational people in both my personal life and working life too so have some level of understanding. Apportioning blame does achieve nothing but I bet the van drivers family and small children will still have it in their minds. Maybe Carlisle will have too.
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Post by ACW on Jul 5, 2015 0:49:27 GMT 1
Why do people find it OK to use a digitised cartoon image of someone shooting themselves in the head (through the mouth) acceptable? Especially in this case!!!! It's not a good thing. Should go. Try typing in the word "suicide" without that icon coming up. It's a factor of the site, not insensitivity on the poster's part. . I know - I've just had to insert spaces in the word 's uicide' on my own response to Barbie's post to get rid of them. Didn't really help the serious message I was trying to get across.
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