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Post by stinkypete on Jan 23, 2015 22:14:16 GMT 1
We're struggling for one reason and one reason only, we don't/can't/won't pay enough! What is your definition of enough? I remember Trevor Francis becoming the first £1M pound player, it's still too much by todays standards for a footballer, never mind 30 years ago. I guess to pull in the calibre of striker some of our fans are wanting, we'd be paying them about three quarters to a million pound a year. Think about that. A million quid!! Its time the fans backed the owners to halt these ridiculous wages. If we've got a wage structure that we have to stick to, and the result of that is we miss out on a few targets, I'm happy with that. I agree, I was just pointing out that that's the reason we've not got a striker signed up by now, we can't/won't compete once someone comes in offering more brass.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Jan 23, 2015 22:15:34 GMT 1
Won't be easy tomorrow, we are average. I think we will draw. Leeds at home, don't think we will lose. Millwall are shocking, we might win.
3 to 5 points imo.
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Post by keithAM11532 on Jan 23, 2015 22:17:48 GMT 1
you make some good points here, I doubt very much that either CP or DH are happy with the situation we find ourselves in. Absolutely, but they aren't going to panic buy when we don't secure one of our targets. I'm confident that Powell will have a lengthy list of players that are suitable/realistic targets for HTFC, and he'll work his way down that list if necessary. However, if there is such a list, and everyone on it turns us down, then fook knows what we'll do! I hope that those targets become free men in the summer. Did you see how many of the transfers done in this window are either free or loan. a huge percentage.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 22:19:57 GMT 1
What is your definition of enough? I remember Trevor Francis becoming the first £1M pound player, it's still too much by todays standards for a footballer, never mind 30 years ago. I guess to pull in the calibre of striker some of our fans are wanting, we'd be paying them about three quarters to a million pound a year. Think about that. A million quid!! Its time the fans backed the owners to halt these ridiculous wages. If we've got a wage structure that we have to stick to, and the result of that is we miss out on a few targets, I'm happy with that. I agree, I was just pointing out that that's the reason we've not got a striker signed up by now, we can't/won't compete once someone comes in offering more brass. I know Clibbens gets some stick, but whenever I find myself lamenting our lack of spending I always refer myself back to the Q&A he did at the Millbridge Club. (Lets face it, if Dean wanted to up the wage budget by a few million, he could). Because Clibbens worked as a football administrator, he will be fully aware of what it takes to set a club on the slippery slope to financial meltdown, this seems to always come to the fore in our operations. It may not be exciting for us, but it is necessary.
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Post by The Ossett Terrier on Jan 23, 2015 22:22:49 GMT 1
yeah, and how much did we blow with that clown Very harsh on Clark to say that, if you was to look at the amount of money he spent on players, and the amount of money the players he brought in were sold on for, I every much doubt you can name any other town manager that as made the club so much money. With the amount of players he signed i'm not surprised we made some money, id of been more surprised if we didn't
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 22:47:09 GMT 1
Under the management of Clark Grayson and Robins we signed players, but now we seem to be struggling. Could it be that Chris Powell is unable to attract the quality of players we need ?
Wait until the end of the window. There are so many variables involved with signing a player, it ain't like going to the shops. Maybe we are aiming higher with our targets than we have done previously, but are struggling for one reason or another to bring then in. Either way I highly doubt it's anything to do with Powell, out of all the managers we've had under DH, Powell is probably most respected among players. I agree he has got rid of anyone that didn't agree with him, or wasn't what he wanted. It's a double edged sword and if you live by the sword you die by the sword. But..... at least he seems capable of making a decision, he has the courage of his own convictions, right or wrong that will rub off on the players. Let's hope he gets it right, because it's needed a strong manager at town for 5 years, just hope he can get recruitment right and can work with wilson.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jan 23, 2015 22:51:38 GMT 1
Wait until the end of the window. There are so many variables involved with signing a player, it ain't like going to the shops. Maybe we are aiming higher with our targets than we have done previously, but are struggling for one reason or another to bring then in. Either way I highly doubt it's anything to do with Powell, out of all the managers we've had under DH, Powell is probably most respected among players. I agree he has got rid of anyone that didn't agree with him, or wasn't what he wanted. It's a double edged sword and if you live by the sword you die by the sword. But..... at least he seems capable of making a decision, he has the courage of his own convictions, right or wrong that will rub off on the players. Let's hope he gets it right, because it's needed a strong manager at town for 5 years, just hope he can get recruitment right and can work with wilson.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 22:55:43 GMT 1
I thought courage of convictions may have been another. I tried to get as many as I could in after the first!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 23:48:55 GMT 1
Even more likely that he's not gonna mug himself off to appease us morons. That's how we ended up with half this shit squad in the first place. I applaud the man. All in good time. Remember when we signed Ainsworth and Pilks at the same time, I seem to recall we were all a bit euphoric about Ainsworth, where as Pilks was the lad at Stockport who looked Ok when they played us earlier in the season, but nobody got too excited about. Even when Ainsworth had been here a few months, and was coming off the bench ( cos he was actually shit and not worthy of a starting place) fans were still rubbing their hands with glee at seeing the "little lad with pace to burn" coming on to change the game. I can't really remember if he did too often if I'm honest.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 23:52:33 GMT 1
Wait until the end of the window. There are so many variables involved with signing a player, it ain't like going to the shops. Maybe we are aiming higher with our targets than we have done previously, but are struggling for one reason or another to bring then in. Either way I highly doubt it's anything to do with Powell, out of all the managers we've had under DH, Powell is probably most respected among players. I agree he has got rid of anyone that didn't agree with him, or wasn't what he wanted. It's a double edged sword and if you live by the sword you die by the sword. But..... at least he seems capable of making a decision, he has the courage of his own convictions, right or wrong that will rub off on the players. Let's hope he gets it right, because it's needed a strong manager at town for 5 years, just hope he can get recruitment right and can work with wilson. My next door neighbour is called Frank Sword. I think I better move.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 0:05:09 GMT 1
I agree he has got rid of anyone that didn't agree with him, or wasn't what he wanted. It's a double edged sword and if you live by the sword you die by the sword. But..... at least he seems capable of making a decision, he has the courage of his own convictions, right or wrong that will rub off on the players. Let's hope he gets it right, because it's needed a strong manager at town for 5 years, just hope he can get recruitment right and can work with wilson. My next door neighbour is called Frank Sword. I think I better move. Better safe than sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 0:34:55 GMT 1
Under the management of Clark Grayson and Robins we signed players, but now we seem to be struggling. Could it be that Chris Powell is unable to attract the quality of players we need ?
No its probably more to do with the fact that Hoyle's trust has been eroded after previously parting with millions to bring in some absolute crap. Unfortunately, fair or not, Powell is probably a bit more restricted because of this
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 0:38:55 GMT 1
Yep, they were great days. How I wish we still had a seemingly revolving door with players such as Jon Parkin joining us week in week out. Not to mention Jordan Rhodes or Anthony Pilkington. Its been said a million times before, if you cast the net wide enough, law of averages says you will probably get a couple of gems. Also, bearing in mind town paid quite a lot for Pilkington (many clubs will have known of his abilities but couldn't have afforded to take the gamble town did).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 0:40:05 GMT 1
Under the management of Clark Grayson and Robins we signed players, but now we seem to be struggling. Could it be that Chris Powell is unable to attract the quality of players we need ?
No its probably more to do with the fact that Hoyle's trust has been eroded after previously parting with millions to bring in some absolute crap. Unfortunately, fair or not, Powell is probably a bit more restricted because of this More to do with FFP I think. Waste not want not.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 0:42:08 GMT 1
looks like we are just getting rid of the average players. Trying to get more quality. He's trying to get one or two strikers in, shows how hard it is as clubs will know we need them, sellers market in January. At least the apparent struggle to sign a forward suggests were aiming higher than the likes of Stead Patterson and Carr
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 0:45:10 GMT 1
No its probably more to do with the fact that Hoyle's trust has been eroded after previously parting with millions to bring in some absolute crap. Unfortunately, fair or not, Powell is probably a bit more restricted because of this More to do with FFP I think. Waste not want not. Perhaps both.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 0:51:24 GMT 1
yeah, and how much did we blow with that clown Very harsh on Clark to say that, if you was to look at the amount of money he spent on players, and the amount of money the players he brought in were sold on for, I every much doubt you can name any other town manager that as made the club so much money. Take Jordan Rhodes out of that equation and he blew millions (a lot for a league one club) For every reasonably successful signing he made, I could name 5 dire ones.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 24, 2015 0:51:39 GMT 1
Let's face it, we have no idea when we sign players whether they'll turn out to be good for us or not, as said above Ainsworth and Pilks are just one example of countless others who we called completely wrong. As I've said before players need to fit with a club, & feel like they are part of what we want to achieve, if we get a group who want to achieve for Town rather than just for money or their own career then we'll have cracked it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 0:52:12 GMT 1
More to do with FFP I think. Waste not want not. Perhaps both. Possibly, Powell aware of his budget.
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Post by ruud1boy on Jan 24, 2015 10:17:42 GMT 1
yeah, and how much did we blow with that clown Very harsh on Clark to say that, if you was to look at the amount of money he spent on players, and the amount of money the players he brought in were sold on for, I every much doubt you can name any other town manager that as made the club so much money. Take Rhodes out of that equation tho' & it wouldn't look so rosy. Clark dropped lucky w/ Rhodes, pure & simple. If you throw enough shit, some of it will stick.
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Post by ruud1boy on Jan 24, 2015 10:19:32 GMT 1
Ah, should have read to the end of the thread before sticking my twopennorth in
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Post by terrierng on Jan 24, 2015 10:30:22 GMT 1
Take Jordan Rhodes out of that equation and he blew millions (a lot for a league one club) For every reasonably successful signing he made, I could name 5 dire ones. It is silly to say take Jordan Rhodes out of that equation. It just suits an argument but lets say we did. Pilke...2mill Pelts,, 1mill....plus250k,second time Hunt...2mill Ainswoth...small profit That kid we got from Bournemouth i think,forget his name,everyone said he was shit but we still made a profit Of course this doesnt take any wages into count and we still wasted plenty but it isnt as bad as its made out....and the rhodes money wiped any losses out,lucky or not its a fact.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 10:39:10 GMT 1
It is silly to say take Jordan Rhodes out of that equation. It just suits an argument but lets say we did. Pilke...2mill Pelts,, 1mill....plus250k,second time Hunt...2mill Ainswoth...small profit That kid we got from Bournemouth i think,forget his name,everyone said he was shit but we still made a profit Of course this doesnt take any wages into count and we still wasted plenty but it isnt as bad as its made out....and the rhodes money wiped any losses out,lucky or not its a fact. Hunt came through the youth system And I doubt very much a profit was made on Ainsworth, they paid about 250k for him and he hardly played. And yes, wages.....a hell of a lot of money was wasted (especially for a league 1 club) on rubbish, and after that I would find it difficult to trust another manager again. I think only Grayson signed decent players since Hoyles been here
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 10:42:52 GMT 1
Its been said a million times before, if you cast the net wide enough, law of averages says you will probably get a couple of gems. Also, bearing in mind town paid quite a lot for Pilkington (many clubs will have known of his abilities but couldn't have afforded to take the gamble town did). Didn't we pay £400,000 for Pilkington, Stockport need the cash to keep going, even then it was considered we had got a bargain. Thats quite a lot for a league 1 side to fork out...
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Post by terrierng on Jan 24, 2015 10:47:21 GMT 1
It just suits an argument but lets say we did. Pilke...2mill Pelts,, 1mill....plus250k,second time Hunt...2mill Ainswoth...small profit That kid we got from Bournemouth i think,forget his name,everyone said he was shit but we still made a profit Of course this doesnt take any wages into count and we still wasted plenty but it isnt as bad as its made out....and the rhodes money wiped any losses out,lucky or not its a fact. Hunt came through the youth system And I doubt very much a profit was made on Ainsworth, they paid about 250k for him and he hardly played. And yes, wages.....a hell of a lot of money was wasted (especially for a league 1 club) on rubbish, and after that I would find it difficult to trust another manager again. I think only Grayson signed decent players since Hoyles been here Youth system or not he was sold for big bucks, you cant take him out just to suit,Ainswoth was a profit,albeit a small one,grayson was the only one to sign decent players.... Wow,our record sale,our record signing wernt signed by him,nor were pilks,roberts,page,Butterfield, coady afobe,kelly,drinkwater...i could go on but you get the point,not saying money wasn't wasted but it wasnt as much ad is often thought.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 10:50:28 GMT 1
Take Rhodes out of that equation tho' & it wouldn't look so rosy. Clark dropped lucky w/ Rhodes, pure & simple. If you enough shit, some of it will stick. You make your own luck Its a bit like me going on bargain hunt, I convince the producer to let me have 10 x the amount of cash to spend, I blow £3000 on 50 items, 3 of them happen to be great and I make a big profit, but 47 of those are poor and I make a loss on them. Even if overall I make a small profit, because one item turns out to be worth a fortune..... does that mean I have an eye for a bargain? No, not really because I made loss on 94% of the things I bought, a stat that most chairmen these days, would not tolerate. I'm glad we now have a manager who might not need to sign 50 players before he gets a few good ones...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 10:54:38 GMT 1
Hunt came through the youth system And I doubt very much a profit was made on Ainsworth, they paid about 250k for him and he hardly played. And yes, wages.....a hell of a lot of money was wasted (especially for a league 1 club) on rubbish, and after that I would find it difficult to trust another manager again. I think only Grayson signed decent players since Hoyles been here Youth system or not he was sold for big bucks, you cant take him out just to suit,Ainswoth was a profit,albeit a small one,grayson was the only one to sign decent players.... Wow,our record sale,our record signing wernt signed by him,nor were pilks,roberts,page,Butterfield, coady afobe,kelly,drinkwater...i could go on but you get the point,not saying money wasn't wasted but it wasnt as much ad is often thought. Even Turnip signed Gary Roberts.....When I say Grayson was the only one, I mean the only one with a decent proportion of good signings. Sorry I disagree, for a league one side an absolute fortune was wasted.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 10:55:40 GMT 1
Thats quite a lot for a league 1 side to fork out... sheff utd have just paid 1.5m for a right back Yeah thats a lot as well isn't it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 10:56:40 GMT 1
Hunt came through the youth system And I doubt very much a profit was made on Ainsworth, they paid about 250k for him and he hardly played. And yes, wages.....a hell of a lot of money was wasted (especially for a league 1 club) on rubbish, and after that I would find it difficult to trust another manager again. I think only Grayson signed decent players since Hoyles been here Doesn't Ross Wilson oversee all contracts. Irrelevant-the manager picks who he wants!!!!
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Post by terrierng on Jan 24, 2015 11:00:31 GMT 1
Youth system or not he was sold for big bucks, you cant take him out just to suit,Ainswoth was a profit,albeit a small one,grayson was the only one to sign decent players.... Wow,our record sale,our record signing wernt signed by him,nor were pilks,roberts,page,Butterfield, coady afobe,kelly,drinkwater...i could go on but you get the point,not saying money wasn't wasted but it wasnt as much ad is often thought. Even Turnip signed Gary Roberts.....When I say Grayson was the only one, I mean the only one with a decent proportion of good signings. Sorry I disagree, for a league one side an absolute fortune was wasted. I dont Dissagree money was wasted it was no doubt, but not as much as is reported and it has all been recouped in the sales,lucky or not,wages wasnt though and paying those is where the waste was, especially like you say the amount of players brought in,a high proportion that were i agree shit....however the fact remains we sold well,and other managers brought decent players in not just grayson, that statement was plain daft;)
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