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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 14:12:57 GMT 1
Halleluja! Praise the .... oh crap
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 14:22:43 GMT 1
From "shrew" to mammoth.....even more morphing! Imagine all the never-ending changing of size and shape......yet no fossils of those transitional species found. I'm sure dogs haven't eaten them all............ I believe in evolution but the missing link is a mystery Aren't we only separated by many other mammals by only a few percent in our DNA? Dogs, cats, and Leeds supporters etc.
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 14:54:51 GMT 1
Always thought the elephant evolved from the mammoth. From "shrew" to mammoth.....even more morphing! Imagine all the never-ending changing of size and shape......yet no fossils of those transitional species found. I'm sure dogs haven't eaten them all............ Yes, how bizarre that something that died 2 million years ago isn't perfectly preserved in a rock somewhere waving coo-ee to passing archaeologists. Pardon my sarcasm, it is hard to get your head around the timescales we are talking about just as it is nigh on impossible to get your head around the incredible distances, forces and temperatures involved in quantum mechanics. There have been five mass extinctions – the Ordovician, Devonian, Permian, Triassic and Cretaceous events resulting in a loss of over 75 per cent of species in the last 2 million years alone. And 2 million years is just a drop in the ocean in the big scheme of things. We toss out the word 'million' on a daily basis but think about it, the incredible size of that number. We've only been writing approximately 5000 years. Multiply the time elapsed since man put basic words into writing by 200 -- 200! -- and you've got a million years. And that one million years is fuck all in the timescale of the evolution of life on earth when you realise life began 3.5 to 4 billion -- billion! -- years ago. The timescales are beyond everyday human comprehension in reality, and it doesn't suprise me one iota that there are gaps in our knowledge. That's why I love science, it doesn't claim to know all the answers (unlike religion). It doesn't claim to be omnipotent (unlike religion). And it is constantly moving us forward whereas religion is trying to drive us backwards.
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Post by OldRastrickian on Mar 1, 2015 15:11:14 GMT 1
But countless, much older dinosaur fossils exist.....many of them superbly preserved. And many (fully-formed) mammoth fossils have been discovered......but not those transitional pre-mammoth fossils.
But let's not just concentrate on elephants/mammoths....Darwin's fundamental observation was that ALL the transitional species leading up to today's myriad critters are "missing" (ditto yesterday's dinosaurs.....imagine the morphing required to produce some of those giant brutes!) Prompting the reasonable (non-religious) conclusion that they probably never existed in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 15:14:01 GMT 1
By the way, I bet the Chaplain costs far less than a Counsellor.
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 15:23:33 GMT 1
By the way, I bet the Chaplain costs far less than a Counsellor. Mentioned earlier in the thread and I wouldn't be surprised if this was key (if correct).
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 15:25:26 GMT 1
But countless, much older dinosaur fossils exist.....many of them superbly preserved. And many (fully-formed) mammoth fossils have been discovered......but not those transitional pre-mammoth fossils. But let's not just concentrate on elephants/mammoths....Darwin's fundamental observation was that ALL the transitional species leading up to today's myriad critters are "missing" (ditto yesterday's dinosaurs.....imagine the morphing required to produce some of those giant brutes!) Prompting the reasonable (non-religious) conclusion that they probably never existed in the first place. What, dinosaurs never existed in the first place?
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 1, 2015 15:33:19 GMT 1
A rather large space where the universe would eventually exist. Surely you can prove that,beyond all doubt, otherwise its just heresay or mumbo jumbo,anyone beliveing things they cant prove have mental health problems right? Does it really need proving? You might not have evidence of what was in the space that your house now takes up- but you can use logic and understanding to know that it was almost certainly an empty space in a field. Same for the universe- before the big bang you can use basic logic and understanding to know that where it is now was an empty space. Or you can think it was occupied by a big man with a grey beard sitting on a cloud surrounded by babies with halos and little wings.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Mar 1, 2015 15:36:27 GMT 1
Once again Captain, you are misquoting and being disingenuous to try make your point. No one is accusing of you of forcing anyone to be non religious. You are forcing your atheism on the thread and taking the point as far as it will go. It's undeniable - if you read the thread in its entirety - that those arguing for atheism are in fact a lot less tolerant of different opinion / belief than anyone here who is religious. Now I'm not a religious man, I like several others here, have walked away from the whole thing, it just doesn't do anything for me. But I'm able to respect religious folk and their beliefs - something you are incapable of doing; offering only outspoken contempt for anyone who believes in the pixies etc. Has no one else come across padres in the armed services? Did anyone get ruthlessly radicalised into attending Sunday school and organising coffee mornings following sleepless nights in Bosnia? I'd guess a lot of these footballers could do with a quiet word from a wise, sympathetic person at the club - whether they're getting into trouble with booze, gambling or whatever because it certainly affects many players. Good idea from the club. Youre selectively reading the bits you want to read and ignoring others to fit. . Im not arguing against people being religious ( though Im of the opinion the world would be better off if no one was) , Im arguing against teaching it as a fact in schools. To do that I have to explain why I think its nonsense- otherwise whats the point of the opinion??? Likening god to pixies is not meant as contempt- its meant as an illustration of why religion is nonsense- 2 imaginary things with no evidence to prove their existence, yet one is acceptable to believe in, whilst the other means you're a fruitcake. I don't get the difference thats all. What school did you go to Cap'n. In my Religious Education classes, I was taught about most other religions around the world, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. the beliefs of each religion it's history and followers. We also learnt about most the stories from the bible but at no point were they ever presented as facts. In my time in the RE classes of old I never felt that it was anything other than education of Religion/s and not the fact based learning of the sciences, etc.
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 1, 2015 15:41:57 GMT 1
But countless, much older dinosaur fossils exist.....many of them superbly preserved. And many (fully-formed) mammoth fossils have been discovered......but not those transitional pre-mammoth fossils. But let's not just concentrate on elephants/mammoths....Darwin's fundamental observation was that ALL the transitional species leading up to today's myriad critters are "missing" (ditto yesterday's dinosaurs.....imagine the morphing required to produce some of those giant brutes!) Prompting the reasonable (non-religious) conclusion that they probably never existed in the first place. What, dinosaurs never existed in the first place? I read it as that aswell! he didn't mean that did he? Mind you , some religious people insist the world is 6000 years old, so there is no limit to what people will believe.
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 15:45:15 GMT 1
I remember our old RE teacher being too embarrassed to tell us exactly what a eunuch was, and we asked her a few times.
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 15:46:47 GMT 1
What, dinosaurs never existed in the first place? I read it as that aswell! he didn't mean that did he? Mind you , some religious people insist the world is 6000 years old, so there is no limit to what people will believe. Yep, hoping he comes back to clarify his post.
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 1, 2015 15:47:53 GMT 1
Youre selectively reading the bits you want to read and ignoring others to fit. . Im not arguing against people being religious ( though Im of the opinion the world would be better off if no one was) , Im arguing against teaching it as a fact in schools. To do that I have to explain why I think its nonsense- otherwise whats the point of the opinion??? Likening god to pixies is not meant as contempt- its meant as an illustration of why religion is nonsense- 2 imaginary things with no evidence to prove their existence, yet one is acceptable to believe in, whilst the other means you're a fruitcake. I don't get the difference thats all. What school did you go to Cap'n. In my Religious Education classes, I was taught about most other religions around the world, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. the beliefs of each religion it's history and followers. We also learnt about most the stories from the bible but at no point were they ever presented as facts. In my time in the RE classes of old I never felt that it was anything other than education of Religion/s and not the fact based learning of the sciences, etc. My RE was the same and I dn't have an issue with that. but we also prayed in assembly, sang hymms, said grace before dinner etc. Lots of schools are religious schools to varying degrees. Theres Cof E primary schools ( like my local one) or muslim schools, catholic schools. Don't see any place for preaching religion in schools
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Post by Novakaine on Mar 1, 2015 15:50:39 GMT 1
I read it as that aswell! he didn't mean that did he? Mind you , some religious people insist the world is 6000 years old, so there is no limit to what people will believe. Yep, hoping he comes back to clarify his post. I'm pretty sure he meant the (missing link) species in between never existed.
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 16:14:53 GMT 1
I'm pretty sure he meant the (missing link) species in between never existed. Transitional fossils have been known about for years, always remember the Archaeopteryx from my dinosaur books as a kid. From Wiki: Archaeopteryx was discovered in 1861 and represents a classic transitional form between dinosaurs and birds. Many more transitional fossils have been discovered since then and there is now abundant evidence of how all classes of vertebrates are related, much of it in the form of transitional fossils. Specific examples include humans and other primates, tetrapods and fish, and birds and dinosaurs. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil
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Post by Novakaine on Mar 1, 2015 16:46:58 GMT 1
3PipeI always thought the Australian Cassowary was very dinosaur-like. Especially its feet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 16:57:02 GMT 1
Pulled a few dinosaurs in The Frontier back in the day.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 1, 2015 17:40:49 GMT 1
By the way, I bet the Chaplain costs far less than a Counsellor. Typical Town, always going for the cheap option, in true Town style, cheap is best!!
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 1, 2015 17:51:51 GMT 1
By the way, I bet the Chaplain costs far less than a Counsellor. Typical Town, always going for the cheap option, in true Town style, cheap is best!! Maybe you're the missing link? Evolved into human form but kept the walnut sized brain?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 17:59:39 GMT 1
I was talking to an Atheist the other night actually, he was as one of the most stubborn folk I've ever talked to over religion. In the end I just walked away, I wasn't trying to put forward any argument other than that people had a right to any faith they choose, and the importance of the church in places such as Oklahoma where I've had first hand experience of the importance of Christian faith.
I guess if you're a knobhead, you're knobhead, regardless of belief.
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Mar 1, 2015 18:01:48 GMT 1
Keep the faith
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Post by OldRastrickian on Mar 1, 2015 18:08:09 GMT 1
Try reading my previous comment again, 3Pipe....but properly this time! See the reference to dinosaur fossils?
Talking of which....imagine the scale of morphing required to get from the primeval slime which oozed out of a pond, or dropped off a meteorite, to, say, the Titanosaur (Late Cretaceous) recently discovered in Argentina....130'long, 65' tall, 77t weight. That's one helluva lot of transitionalising...........
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Post by terrierng on Mar 1, 2015 18:17:08 GMT 1
Surely you can prove that,beyond all doubt, otherwise its just heresay or mumbo jumbo,anyone beliveing things they cant prove have mental health problems right? Does it really need proving? You might not have evidence of what was in the space that your house now takes up- but you can use logic and understanding to know that it was almost certainly an empty space in a field. Same for the universe- before the big bang you can use basic logic and understanding to know that where it is now was an empty space. Or you can think it was occupied by a big man with a grey beard sitting on a cloud surrounded by babies with halos and little wings. Yes it does need proving, other wise you have mental health problems, that's what you say about religion, works both ways, neither can be proved,if religion fills a gap in someone's life who are we to scoff at it....for the record i arnt particular religious but open minded enough to let others believe in anything they see fit.
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Post by OldRastrickian on Mar 1, 2015 18:25:10 GMT 1
Transitional specy. My understanding of the term is not the link between one specy and another (eg dinosaur to bird).....but rather, the claimed evolution of, say, a very large specy (for ease of illustration) from a very small common ancestor. It didn't happen suddenly, overnight....or at birth! The creature had to change slowly....getting bigger, heavier, larger tusks, etc.....yet it was Darwin's observation that there is no (fossil) evidence of such change within any specy. Today's mammals (for example) arrive in the fossil record looking virtually the same as they do today.
OK, one can claim that all those billions of evolutionary stages have simply disappeared from the fossil record.....but that's hard to accept. The fossils of links from dinosaur to bird have been found, but no fossils of the ever-enlarging mammoth. I don't buy it....and neither did Charlie is my Darwin!
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 18:34:27 GMT 1
Try reading my previous comment again, 3Pipe....but properly this time! Try typing in proper English mate. is a specy for starters?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 18:38:12 GMT 1
What if God planted the evidence to make it look like the earth is billions of years old? Maybe it is only 6000 years old, maybe it doesn't exist, maybe we aren't actually physically here, but just exist in spirit alone.
Lets be honest, life, the universe, spacetime? All pretty unbelievable stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 18:39:25 GMT 1
It might help explain how Michael Collins went missing so often that's for sure.
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 18:40:41 GMT 1
That's some good shit you're smoking there Mel/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 18:41:12 GMT 1
That's some good shit you're smoking there Mel/ You know I'm not definitely wrong though mate.
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 1, 2015 18:42:40 GMT 1
It might help explain how Michael Collins went missing so often that's for sure. Tough job splitting your time between NASA and HTFC.
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