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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 2, 2015 23:16:19 GMT 1
Are you saying he should have asked her for her birth certificate? If I asked a woman her age before I had sex with her and she said she was 18, then I'd have to think she was, unless I had reasonable doubt that she wasn't. You can have all the reasonable doubt you want. You'd still have broken the law and would be found guilty. Yes I would have but its not like he picked her up from school, he met her in a night club, where adults go, over 18's, not where 15 year olds should be.
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Post by DeepSpace on Mar 2, 2015 23:19:55 GMT 1
You can have all the reasonable doubt you want. You'd still have broken the law and would be found guilty. Yes I would have but its not like he picked her up from school, he met her in a night club, where adults go, over 18's, not where 15 year olds should be. Seriously, you are badly missing the point here. She is a child in law....a child. Below an age in which she can legally consent to sex. It doesn't matter if she put rollers in her hair & a set of Norah batty stockings on. She's a child. And any bloke that has sex with her commits an offence. The judge MIGHT mitigate his sentence but that still makes any bloke in that situation a convicted sex offender.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 23:20:42 GMT 1
Footballers generally are arseholes. The more they get paid the bigger arseholes they tend to be.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 2, 2015 23:22:49 GMT 1
Even if you thought she was 18 Art that would make her half your age . If youre into making out with teen girls as a 30 something then if I was you then I would be taking a little more care with how you filter legal from illegal. The onus of responsibility is on you as an adult and I doubt the judge would take kindly to your squashbuckling approach. To be fair Ted, think my days of knobbling 18 year olds are over!!! Although, having a Doris half your age isn't illegal or am I being too 'squashbuckling' again? I do get that as an adult I'm responsible.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 2, 2015 23:26:09 GMT 1
Yes I would have but its not like he picked her up from school, he met her in a night club, where adults go, over 18's, not where 15 year olds should be. Seriously, you are badly missing the point here. She is a child in law....a child. Below an age in which she can legally consent to sex. It doesn't matter if she put rollers in her hair & a set of Norah batty stockings on. She's a child. And any bloke that has sex with her commits an offence. The judge MIGHT mitigate his sentence but that still makes any bloke in that situation a convicted sex offender. Yes I get that, I'm not saying he hasn't done wrong but he's not done it knowingly and the girl should not have been there in the first place.
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Post by Solid Snake on Mar 2, 2015 23:29:54 GMT 1
Was doing a Personal License course the other day and on the course we got a picture of a number of people and had to guess their age (just as an exercise). There was a couple of young people in that picture (15 and 16 I think I remember, both girls) and only about half of the people on the course put them down as being under 18. Just goes to show that with some people you just really can't tell.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 2, 2015 23:35:46 GMT 1
Was doing a Personal License course the other day and on the course we got a picture of a number of people and had to guess their age (just as an exercise). There was a couple of young people in that picture (15 and 16 I think I remember, both girls) and only about half of the people on the course put them down as being under 18. Just goes to show that with some people you just really can't tell. Especially when your looking at it with your dick!!!
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Post by Manx Terrier on Mar 2, 2015 23:37:19 GMT 1
I have never understood why any publicity whatsoever should be allowed unless a defendant is found guilty. Trials could still be open but until there is a guilty verdict there should be no publicity of the defendant,the alleged offence or any accuser. Once there is a guilty verdict the press could give full details. Surely this would be fairer.
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Post by efesodje23 on Mar 2, 2015 23:38:12 GMT 1
Was doing a Personal License course the other day and on the course we got a picture of a number of people and had to guess their age (just as an exercise). There was a couple of young people in that picture (15 and 16 I think I remember, both girls) and only about half of the people on the course put them down as being under 18. Just goes to show that with some people you just really can't tell. Especially when your looking at it with your dick!!! I find it a lot more enjoyable to tell using the braille version
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 2, 2015 23:39:36 GMT 1
I have never understood why any publicity whatsoever should be allowed unless a defendant is found guilty. Trials could still be open but until there is a guilty verdict there should be no publicity of the defendant,the alleged offence or any accuser. Once there is a guilty verdict the press could give full details. Surely this would be fairer. They sometimes publicise in order to try and get more "victims" to come forward . I personally think that's valid in some cases. Not sure about this one though. Feels a bit tittle tattle to me
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 2, 2015 23:42:43 GMT 1
Seriously, you are badly missing the point here. She is a child in law....a child. Below an age in which she can legally consent to sex. It doesn't matter if she put rollers in her hair & a set of Norah batty stockings on. She's a child. And any bloke that has sex with her commits an offence. The judge MIGHT mitigate his sentence but that still makes any bloke in that situation a convicted sex offender. Yes I get that, I'm not saying he hasn't done wrong but he's not done it knowingly and the girl should not have been there in the first place. I agree with you art. In that scenario its not unreasonable for a bloke to presume a girl is over age, She 'has' to be 18 to get in. She might be saying shes 18 and she almost certainly looks 18. Whats the bloke supposed to do to check she isn't 15 ? Phone her parents? Ask to see her birth certificate. He may well have committed a criminal act but to be convicted and labelled a paedophile seems very unfair to me. Makes him a bigger victim than the girl. Thats just that scenario though in a nightclub. Any adult bloke having sex with an underage girl in other scenarios where the girls real age is more in doubt, can't have any complaints if they get the book thrown at them.
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Post by DeepSpace on Mar 2, 2015 23:43:18 GMT 1
Seriously, you are badly missing the point here. She is a child in law....a child. Below an age in which she can legally consent to sex. It doesn't matter if she put rollers in her hair & a set of Norah batty stockings on. She's a child. And any bloke that has sex with her commits an offence. The judge MIGHT mitigate his sentence but that still makes any bloke in that situation a convicted sex offender. Yes I get that, I'm not saying he hasn't done wrong but he's not done it knowingly and the girl should not have been there in the first place. You're right she shouldnt. Children do things they shouldn't all the time. Even in their mid to late teens. So we have a set of laws in effect to protect them from themselves. The only real mitigation I know of is in fact if they are close in age. The further apart the less the not knowing defence would work.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 23:48:17 GMT 1
Let's say she was in a nightclub then, she must have had a fake ID on her to even get in the place, so not sure why him asking for her ID would have made a difference....
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Mar 3, 2015 0:01:17 GMT 1
Yes I get that, I'm not saying he hasn't done wrong but he's not done it knowingly and the girl should not have been there in the first place. I agree with you art. In that scenario its not unreasonable for a bloke to presume a girl is over age, She 'has' to be 18 to get in. She might be saying shes 18 and she almost certainly looks 18.Whats the bloke supposed to do to check she isn't 15 ? Phone her parents? Ask to see her birth certificate. He may well have committed a criminal act but to be convicted and labelled a paedophile seems very unfair to me. Makes him a bigger victim than the girl. Thats just that scenario though in a nightclub. Any adult bloke having sex with an underage girl in other scenarios where the girls real age is more in doubt, can't have any complaints if they get the book thrown at them. I would agree with this sentence if there was never any underage folk in a nightclub. I would like to bet that most folk on this site enjoyed their first night out before they were legally allowed to. If anything you should probably be more careful when 'meeting' young girls in a nightclub when one or both parties are fuelled by alcohol too. It always should be the responsibility of an adult that their partner is legally capable of consenting to sex, as a father of 2 girls I'm sure my view of this is skewed. It is really disappointing to have had his name leaked before being charged similar to Cliff Richard and the ridiculous South Yorkshire Police who have twice now released allegations against him live on TV and lately announced a significant increase in the allegations likely from one to two. All parties should be entitled to anonymity until charges have been brought especially after long investigations.
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Post by keithAM11532 on Mar 3, 2015 0:22:45 GMT 1
Is this thread still here...
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 3, 2015 0:24:59 GMT 1
Let it go Keith
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 3, 2015 0:31:26 GMT 1
Its literally years since Ive been in a nightclub so I might be miles off with this, but isn't it all ID cards now. See a lot of people in their 20s get asked to show them in bars now, so guessing clubs are the same. So maybe its a bit different to when we were younger and clubs aren't full of under18s.
I think in an ideal world the guy will take whatever reasonable checks he can if hes in any doubt. But being realistic about it- in a dark nightclub when both partys are fuelled up on booze, and she has ID that says shes 18, she says she is and looks like she is, and all the bouncers and barstaff are satisfied she is, then how far is he expected to take his responsibility? At sme point in that scenario, you have to say , it isnt his fault, its hers. Even if shes a minor, its still hers.
Certainly agree about releasing his name. Particularly someone in his high profile job. He'll always be guilty now whatever happens. Dave Jones had the same thing.
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Post by sapphireblue on Mar 3, 2015 0:31:56 GMT 1
I had two perfectly good threads deleted the other week, you lads don't know you're born. You've never started a perfectly good thread yet. ;-)
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Post by keithAM11532 on Mar 3, 2015 0:34:17 GMT 1
Let it go Keith Just spat me coke out laughing....
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 3, 2015 0:36:00 GMT 1
I had two perfectly good threads deleted the other week, you lads don't know you're born. You've never started a perfectly good thread yet. ;-) That's true.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Mar 3, 2015 8:17:54 GMT 1
Has this ''crime'' been reported that he picked her up in a bar/nightclub or is this just conjecture??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 8:20:17 GMT 1
Has this ''crime'' been reported that he picked her up in a bar/nightclub or is this just conjecture?? I did wonder the same.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Mar 3, 2015 8:20:52 GMT 1
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Post by pieeater on Mar 3, 2015 8:26:35 GMT 1
The problem with anonymity in this kind of case is that it'd get released online somewhere anyway.. As, frankly, will the alleged victim's name if it goes to court.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Mar 3, 2015 8:33:22 GMT 1
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 3, 2015 8:49:37 GMT 1
Has this ''crime'' been reported that he picked her up in a bar/nightclub or is this just conjecture?? The vivid imaginations of datm
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Post by townrwe on Mar 3, 2015 9:42:41 GMT 1
There has to be a degree of sense in these situations, The full facts of the case arent known, but if it comes out that she was in nightclub at 15, lied about her age, overtly encouraged him etc. Then it has to be dealt with differently to someone who grooms a girl knowing she is only 15 and then has sex with her....
Some of the responsibility if she was in a nightclub should be on her shoulders and in particular her parents who are still responsible for her, doormen for letting her in, barstaff for not asking for u25 id, Yes its wrong as an adult to sleep with a 15 year old, knowingly or unknowingly, but there were several opportunities for this to be stopped missed by responsible individuals. Its in the news today that the government are looking at jailing people who fail to intervene... So in this case, her parents, the door staff, the bar staff, the taxi driver and probably the hotel receptionist should all be facing jail time along with AJ if he did what its suggested. She has also allegedly broken the law as well and maybe that should be highlighted and dealt with publicly and harshly to send a message to other young girls who are considering doing something similar.
There comes a point where people are responsible for their own actions, not every crime in my opinion is a criminal offence, there needs to be a degree of intent surely.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 10:25:28 GMT 1
A moral minefield? The guy has a long time partner and has just become a father quite recently so why is he messing with anyone never mind someone who potentially maybe under aged as alleged? Could of being in one of these "openrelationships" for all we know, that seem to be getting more popular. I wouldnt worry too much about the morality here, its none of our buissness.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 3, 2015 10:30:06 GMT 1
There has to be a degree of sense in these situations, The full facts of the case arent known, but if it comes out that she was in nightclub at 15, lied about her age, overtly encouraged him etc. Then it has to be dealt with differently to someone who grooms a girl knowing she is only 15 and then has sex with her.... Some of the responsibility if she was in a nightclub should be on her shoulders and in particular her parents who are still responsible for her, doormen for letting her in, barstaff for not asking for u25 id, Yes its wrong as an adult to sleep with a 15 year old, knowingly or unknowingly, but there were several opportunities for this to be stopped missed by responsible individuals. Its in the news today that the government are looking at jailing people who fail to intervene... So in this case, her parents, the door staff, the bar staff, the taxi driver and probably the hotel receptionist should all be facing jail time along with AJ if he did what its suggested. She has also allegedly broken the law as well and maybe that should be highlighted and dealt with publicly and harshly to send a message to other young girls who are considering doing something similar. There comes a point where people are responsible for their own actions, not every crime in my opinion is a criminal offence, there needs to be a degree of intent surely. You start off saying the full facts aren't known... Then drift off into an IMaginary nightclub scenario
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Post by townrwe on Mar 3, 2015 10:40:37 GMT 1
There has to be a degree of sense in these situations, The full facts of the case arent known, but if it comes out that she was in nightclub at 15, lied about her age, overtly encouraged him etc. Then it has to be dealt with differently to someone who grooms a girl knowing she is only 15 and then has sex with her.... Some of the responsibility if she was in a nightclub should be on her shoulders and in particular her parents who are still responsible for her, doormen for letting her in, barstaff for not asking for u25 id, Yes its wrong as an adult to sleep with a 15 year old, knowingly or unknowingly, but there were several opportunities for this to be stopped missed by responsible individuals. Its in the news today that the government are looking at jailing people who fail to intervene... So in this case, her parents, the door staff, the bar staff, the taxi driver and probably the hotel receptionist should all be facing jail time along with AJ if he did what its suggested. She has also allegedly broken the law as well and maybe that should be highlighted and dealt with publicly and harshly to send a message to other young girls who are considering doing something similar. There comes a point where people are responsible for their own actions, not every crime in my opinion is a criminal offence, there needs to be a degree of intent surely. You start off saying the full facts aren't known... Then drift off into an IMaginary nightclub scenario I think that gives it away...... 1-0
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