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Post by Barbieterrier on Mar 3, 2015 10:52:22 GMT 1
A moral minefield? The guy has a long time partner and has just become a father quite recently so why is he messing with anyone never mind someone who potentially maybe under aged as alleged? Could of being in one of these "openrelationships" for all we know, that seem to be getting more popular. I wouldnt worry too much about the morality here, its none of our buissness. The original post finished off as 'a moral minefield' my comment was aimed at the morality of a man in a relationship with a baby going out to nightclubs pulling girls - if that's what's happened here
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 3, 2015 11:09:27 GMT 1
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 3, 2015 11:14:02 GMT 1
Must be all bollocks then
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 3, 2015 11:17:09 GMT 1
Might not be bollocks, we'll have to wait and see.
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Mar 3, 2015 11:31:56 GMT 1
Do you mean like Ched Evan's fiancée and her family say!?
The full facts are not known so as far as Im concerned he is innocent until a court says otherwise. I think its deeply unfair to publish the names of people accused of a crime as its a page 1 story and then if its proven to be lies there is normally a retraction at page 6 hidden away. Victims need to be protected but people falsely accused of despicable crimes are victims too.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 3, 2015 11:58:44 GMT 1
Could of being in one of these "openrelationships" for all we know, that seem to be getting more popular. I wouldnt worry too much about the morality here, its none of our buissness. The original post finished off as 'a moral minefield' my comment was aimed at the morality of a man in a relationship with a baby going out to nightclubs pulling girls - if that's what's happened here Johnson's moral code is not the issue here though is it?
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Post by Barbieterrier on Mar 3, 2015 12:24:45 GMT 1
The original post finished off as 'a moral minefield' my comment was aimed at the morality of a man in a relationship with a baby going out to nightclubs pulling girls - if that's what's happened here Johnson's moral code is not the issue here though is it? Never said it was. It was a response to the original post.
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Novakaine
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Post by Novakaine on Mar 3, 2015 12:25:33 GMT 1
Yes I would have but its not like he picked her up from school, he met her in a night club, where adults go, over 18's, not where 15 year olds should be. Seriously, you are badly missing the point here. She is a child in law....a child. Below an age in which she can legally consent to sex. It doesn't matter if she put rollers in her hair & a set of Norah batty stockings on. She's a child. And any bloke that has sex with her commits an offence. The judge MIGHT mitigate his sentence but that still makes any bloke in that situation a convicted sex offender. A law (something somebody made up) doesn't determine whether someone is a child or an adult. Nature does. For example (slightly off topic): Growing cannabis is illegal...! How can something natural be illegal?! Some 'laws' are bullshit. Note: I neither grow or smoke cannabis, nor do I condone or have sex with 15 year olds.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 3, 2015 12:36:19 GMT 1
Seriously, you are badly missing the point here. She is a child in law....a child. Below an age in which she can legally consent to sex. It doesn't matter if she put rollers in her hair & a set of Norah batty stockings on. She's a child. And any bloke that has sex with her commits an offence. The judge MIGHT mitigate his sentence but that still makes any bloke in that situation a convicted sex offender. A law (something somebody made up) doesn't determine whether someone is a child or an adult. Nature does. For example (slightly off topic): Growing cannabis is illegal...! How can something natural be illegal?! Some 'laws' are bullshit. Note: I neither grow or smoke cannabis, nor do I condone or have sex with 15 year olds. I'm afraid that child and adults are social constructs and are as such determined by the law.. So you're wrong
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Novakaine
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Post by Novakaine on Mar 3, 2015 12:57:53 GMT 1
A law (something somebody made up) doesn't determine whether someone is a child or an adult. Nature does. For example (slightly off topic): Growing cannabis is illegal...! How can something natural be illegal?! Some 'laws' are bullshit. Note: I neither grow or smoke cannabis, nor do I condone or have sex with 15 year olds. I'm afraid that child and adults are social constructs and are as such determined by the law.. So you're wrong Correct. Pedantry should be illegal! My point was, a law cannot determine whether someone is mature enough to have sex. But the reason we have laws is because some people have no morals.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 3, 2015 13:14:34 GMT 1
A law (something somebody made up) doesn't determine whether someone is a child or an adult. Nature does. For example (slightly off topic): Growing cannabis is illegal...! How can something natural be illegal?! Some 'laws' are bullshit. Note: I neither grow or smoke cannabis, nor do I condone or have sex with 15 year olds. I'm afraid that child and adults are social constructs and are as such determined by the law.. So you're wrong Think what he is saying that a girls body is developed for sexual activity ie being able to have children well before the law states its acceptable to be sexually active but obviously a line has to be drawn somewhere so that's where the law comes and overrides the law of nature.
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Novakaine
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Post by Novakaine on Mar 3, 2015 13:24:30 GMT 1
I'm afraid that child and adults are social constructs and are as such determined by the law.. So you're wrong Think what he is saying that a girls body is developed for sexual activity ie being able to have children well before the law states its acceptable to be sexually active but obviously a line has to be drawn somewhere so that's where the law comes and overrides the law of nature. Pretty much. But also the other way. A girl may not be ready (physically, emotionally or mentally) at 16, or even 18.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Mar 3, 2015 14:03:29 GMT 1
I have not read any on this thread....purposely. 1. Defendants names should NEVER be released prior to conviction. Other civilised countries don't do it. Mud sticks especially in sex related cases in backward Britain. 2. If is true its hardly crime of the century. 3. If its true he is a dickhead. 4. Its another non-story which is probably fuelled by someone making money out of it.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 3, 2015 14:23:44 GMT 1
I have not read any on this thread....purposely. 1. Defendants names should NEVER be released prior to conviction. Other civilised countries don't do it. Mud sticks especially in sex related cases in backward Britain. 2. If is true its hardly crime of the century. 3. If its true he is a dickhead. 4. Its another non-story which is probably fuelled by someone making money out of it. And it was going so well until point 4 when you decided to have a little speculate
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Mar 3, 2015 14:55:27 GMT 1
Seriously, you are badly missing the point here. She is a child in law....a child. Below an age in which she can legally consent to sex. It doesn't matter if she put rollers in her hair & a set of Norah batty stockings on. She's a child. And any bloke that has sex with her commits an offence. The judge MIGHT mitigate his sentence but that still makes any bloke in that situation a convicted sex offender. A law (something somebody made up) doesn't determine whether someone is a child or an adult. Nature does. For example (slightly off topic): Growing cannabis is illegal...! How can something natural be illegal?! Some 'laws' are bullshit. Note: I neither grow or smoke cannabis, nor do I condone or have sex with 15 year olds.
By that logic opium should be legal too! Laws determine what is and isn't acceptable in the society we chose to live in. Some like the area IS controls, have laws so strict its terrifying. If we don't have laws then we don't have rules to live by. If we don't have rules to live by maybe we should be cavemen bludgeoning others to death with clubs and huddled in caves!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 16:05:57 GMT 1
A law (something somebody made up) doesn't determine whether someone is a child or an adult. Nature does. For example (slightly off topic): Growing cannabis is illegal...! How can something natural be illegal?! Some 'laws' are bullshit. Note: I neither grow or smoke cannabis, nor do I condone or have sex with 15 year olds.
By that logic opium should be legal too! Laws determine what is and isn't acceptable in the society we chose to live in. Some like the area IS controls, have laws so strict its terrifying. If we don't have laws then we don't have rules to live by. If we don't have rules to live by maybe we should be cavemen bludgeoning others to death with clubs and huddled in caves!
I personally wouldnt start bludgeoning people if given the chance, and the war on drugs is the biggest joke ever!
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Post by EastCoastTerrier on Mar 3, 2015 16:10:16 GMT 1
Names shouldn't be tarnished until proven guilty. His career is in doubt now whether found guilty or not. Similar to 10,000BC on channel 5 last night where a guy got made out to be a pervert and sexually assaulted a woman on the reality show without any proof and to be honest it looked very much like a lie by the girls behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 16:28:53 GMT 1
Apparently the girl as boasting about it on social media, her dad found out and went to the police. Can't see it being true myself.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 3, 2015 16:35:28 GMT 1
If he has taken part in sexual activity with this girl and its proven then he is already guilty..the law for a 27 old male says so..
under 24 he could be given a caution.. don't ask me why there is an age difference in what adult males are supposed to know or check on before entering into this type of incident..
making her out to be a 'lolita' or him a pervert isn't helping..
the sentence if guilty must depend on all the facts, not that he is a footballer, in a relationship or just had a baby, these are outside the incident, not facts within it..
they neither mitigate or aggravate it..he might well be a famous person but its as much a disadvantage now as an advantage..clearly all the offences reported of a similar nature on that night or around that time are not splashed all over the media.. He has already been treated differently before any proper facts are known.. its wrong..
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Mar 3, 2015 17:56:39 GMT 1
If he has taken part in sexual activity with this girl and its proven then he is already guilty..the law for a 27 old male says so.. under 24 he could be given a caution.. don't ask me why there is an age difference in what adult males are supposed to know or check on before entering into this type of incident.. making her out to be a 'lolita' or him a pervert isn't helping.. the sentence if guilty must depend on all the facts, not that he is a footballer, in a relationship or just had a baby, these are outside the incident, not facts within it.. they neither mitigate or aggravate it..he might well be a famous person but its as much a disadvantage now as an advantage..clearly all the offences reported of a similar nature on that night or around that time are not splashed all over the media.. He has already been treated differently before any proper facts are known.. its wrong..
The media love it as for once its not them or the establishment up to no good so they suddenly take the moral high ground. I read in one of the stories how they suddenly go on about his "sprawling mansion" and give some details of what its like inside.
What that has to do with an accusation of rape I don't know but its the media trying to sensationalize everything to sell a few more papers or clicks on their website.
I have to say that whilst he may not have known if she was say 14/15 or 16/17, she probably wouldn't have looked much older than that and even less likely to act much older than that. In my late 20s I wouldn't have gone for a girl below 21 as they just seemed far too young and irritating.
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Post by keithAM11532 on Mar 3, 2015 18:01:48 GMT 1
4 pages and its still here Admins....
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 3, 2015 18:04:08 GMT 1
If he has taken part in sexual activity with this girl and its proven then he is already guilty..the law for a 27 old male says so.. under 24 he could be given a caution.. don't ask me why there is an age difference in what adult males are supposed to know or check on before entering into this type of incident.. making her out to be a 'lolita' or him a pervert isn't helping.. the sentence if guilty must depend on all the facts, not that he is a footballer, in a relationship or just had a baby, these are outside the incident, not facts within it.. they neither mitigate or aggravate it..he might well be a famous person but its as much a disadvantage now as an advantage..clearly all the offences reported of a similar nature on that night or around that time are not splashed all over the media.. He has already been treated differently before any proper facts are known.. its wrong..
The media love it as for once its not them or the establishment up to no good so they suddenly take the moral high ground. I read in one of the stories how they suddenly go on about his "sprawling mansion" and give some details of what its like inside.
What that has to do with an accusation of rape I don't know but its the media trying to sensationalize everything to sell a few more papers or clicks on their website.
I have to say that whilst he may not have known if she was say 14/15 or 16/17, she probably wouldn't have looked much older than that and even less likely to act much older than that. In my late 20s I wouldn't have gone for a girl below 21 as they just seemed far too young and irritating.
Think we need to get away from the term 'rape' here, 'rape' is when one party is not willing, that doesn't seem to be the case here, far from it.
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Post by keithAM11532 on Mar 3, 2015 18:06:14 GMT 1
I think we ought to discuss Brentford..
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 3, 2015 18:40:11 GMT 1
Art I think you need to Google the law 're rape
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Novakaine
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Post by Novakaine on Mar 3, 2015 18:40:59 GMT 1
A law (something somebody made up) doesn't determine whether someone is a child or an adult. Nature does. For example (slightly off topic): Growing cannabis is illegal...! How can something natural be illegal?! Some 'laws' are bullshit. Note: I neither grow or smoke cannabis, nor do I condone or have sex with 15 year olds.
By that logic opium should be legal too! Laws determine what is and isn't acceptable in the society we chose to live in. Some like the area IS controls, have laws so strict its terrifying. If we don't have laws then we don't have rules to live by. If we don't have rules to live by maybe we should be cavemen bludgeoning others to death with clubs and huddled in caves!
I don't go around not murdering people or not raping people because it's against the law. I don't do these things because I have no desire to do so, based on the morals I live by. I'd like to think most of us could live in a civilised society without 'laws', but sadly there are many people who can't seem to grasp what is right or wrong. Even with laws! I did say only some laws are bullshit. Some I agree with, even if not the fact we have to have them. I don't know the effects of opium on humans so I can't comment on that. I'll look it up. I have no idea why cannabis is illegal. Something to do with racism and business, back in the day.
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Novakaine
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Post by Novakaine on Mar 3, 2015 18:43:38 GMT 1
Art I think you need to Google the law 're rape If a 15 year old male rapes a 19 year old female. Who is the victim?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 18:48:38 GMT 1
By that logic opium should be legal too! Laws determine what is and isn't acceptable in the society we chose to live in. Some like the area IS controls, have laws so strict its terrifying. If we don't have laws then we don't have rules to live by. If we don't have rules to live by maybe we should be cavemen bludgeoning others to death with clubs and huddled in caves!
I don't go around not murdering people or not raping people because it's against the law. I don't do these things because I have no desire to do so, based on the morals I live by. I'd like to think most of us could live in a civilised society without 'laws', but sadly there are many people who can't seem to grasp what is right or wrong. Even with laws! I did say only some laws are bullshit. Some I agree with, even if not the fact we have to have them. I don't know the effects of opium on humans so I can't comment on that. I'll look it up. I have no idea why cannabis is illegal. Something to do with racism and business, back in the day. A lot of people make a lot of money out of it being illegal, think of all the loses to the pharmaceutical companies if it were legal. And the more things that are illegal the more reason for more police.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 3, 2015 18:48:45 GMT 1
Art I think you need to Google the law 're rape If a 15 year old male rapes a 19 year old female. Who is the victim? The female. Are u asking or trying to make a point
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 3, 2015 18:59:41 GMT 1
Art I think you need to Google the law 're rape Ok, yes strictly speaking its classed as rape for persons under the age of consent but its used as a catch all term, when the term is probably a bit strong in this instance.
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Novakaine
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Post by Novakaine on Mar 3, 2015 19:05:01 GMT 1
If a 15 year old male rapes a 19 year old female. Who is the victim? The female. Are u asking or trying to make a point Yes, a genuine question. I'm not being a tw*t. Doesn't the 'law' define rape as sex with a person under the age consent? So in my crude example, they raped each other? This is why I am not a lawyer.
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