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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Mar 4, 2015 12:48:06 GMT 1
I still don't understand charging the folk with least money the most, a young family, just spunked thousands on a wedding, massive mortgage and young children to buy nappies for the most. When I was a student, young 20s I was awash with cash. I'm pretty sure that once my mortgage is paid off and kids have moved out ill be awash with cash again... It would be interesting to see where the main drop off is. I'd hazard a guess that somewhere around 30 years old.... With many returning at 40+ Developing brand loyalty and then losing it is a recipie for disaster.... basically my thoughts are the £100 season ticket got alot of 20 year old coming. Now they are nearly 30 and getting married, houses, kids etc, they won't be renewing at 349 quid, so that's the drop off is occurring.
That's a very interesting point as I am in my late 30s and whilst I earn more I have much less disposable income than I did when I was younger. This will no doubt change over the next 5 or 10 years and so as you say 40+ things become easier again. We are in that age range that gets screwed as previous generations had free education, free NHS dentists, more affordable land and homes etc. They are also most likely to vote and as such all political parties throw them lots of giveaways to have their loyalty. We will however have to work another 10 years longer than that generation and get less in the end unless we have saved significant sums privately.
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on Mar 4, 2015 12:53:23 GMT 1
The moaning on here and in the stands is my biggest dislike a the moment as well. I've watched us since about 88/89 and we've been far shitter and duller than we are now, we're possibly about to have our 4th highest position in the league ladder since I started watching 26/27 years ago. I remember going to games to support the team no matter what was happening, now you go to a game and a misplaced pass in the first 5 minutes gets some fans backs up straight away and they spend the next 85 minutes constantly moaning and going in to great detail how crap each of our players are.
Unfortunately since Hoyle took over and Clark introduced us to a new player every week and we were at the top end of a poor league inevitably winning most weeks expectations have shot up. This place probably doesn't help, it's very quiet when we have a good win like last tuesday but goes in to overdrive with the drama queens out in full force when we lose and gets people more riled up than they would've been. We could be doing better but we could also be doing a lot worse, despite what keeps getting thrown about there are more than 3 worse teams than us in this division and there's another 46 on top of that in the football league that are worse off. I'm starting to think most fans would be happier to see us at the top end of League 1 than lower midtable in the Championship.
I also can't help thinking people are using the excuse of poor performances to cover the fact it is expensive these days and hard to justify when you have a wife/kids/mortgage, it's not just the cost of the ticket it's everything else as well and it is a lot for people but it's easier to say "I'm not renewing because we've lost 2 games in a row".
I don't always enjoy going now but it's not what's going on in front of me on the pitch it's what's going on around me with SOME fans moaning incessantly. It's a shame the noise doesn't carry from behind the goal because I sat there recently and the atmosphere and attitude was far better than where I normally sit, I hadn't been a big fan of the move there before because I thought it took away from other parts of the ground but being there was far better than sitting with the constant critics.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 13:16:50 GMT 1
Don't like to admit it but I'm thinking of just doing some away games instead of a s/c, trouble is the club lose my money,but the positive side is I get a better day out with my mates,than I do at home games,tbh the game can seriously ruin a good day out
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 4, 2015 13:21:51 GMT 1
So basically what everyone's saying is, that we want the Championship but we're all bored totally shitless at games and the future doesn't look that good and we're all considering not renewing unless the club get their fingers out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 13:22:39 GMT 1
Thrice Champions ? @HTAFCpodcast 21m21 minutes ago Worrying stat. #htafc match gate v Reading 10282. Actual attendance 6800. That's over 3000 ST holders not coming! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 13:30:26 GMT 1
So basically what everyone's saying is, that we want the Championship but we're all bored totally shitless at games and the future doesn't look that good and we're all considering not renewing unless the club get their fingers out. I think it's an interesting question; what % of fans would rather see Town finish more often than not in the top half of League One and how many would prefer bottom half of Championship (ie where we currently are)? For me, I much prefer Championship football even though currently that does mean more defeats. However, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if people prefer the other option. I acknowledge that top half of the Championship is the real preference, but bobbing along in League One that's an impossibility. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 13:35:44 GMT 1
So basically what everyone's saying is, that we want the Championship but we're all bored totally shitless at games and the future doesn't look that good and we're all considering not renewing unless the club get their fingers out. Or unless the players and management team,pull there fingers out,I don't blame the board |
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Mar 4, 2015 13:41:19 GMT 1
So many of you harp on about ticket prices , but that can end up being a small percentage of the cost of attending certain games. You don't get much change these days from £100 when having to travel to most away games from Huddersfield by over inflated rail prices unless you book well in advance, then take into consideration the overall cost to towns fans like myself who attend many home matches from well outside the Kirklees and district area . There are many fans in this situation that i bump into along the line when travelling from Devon or from my relations home in London , and most travel in families which might include an unavoidable overnight stay. I thought it a nice gesture by the club when handing out free match tickets at Bournemouth.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 13:46:01 GMT 1
Thrice Champions ? @HTAFCpodcast 21m21 minutes ago Worrying stat. #htafc match gate v Reading 10282. Actual attendance 6800. That's over 3000 ST holders not coming! I seem to remember that was the kind of stat that Dean Hoyle stated made him think, "Ive got to DO SOMETHING about this club" and get involved in the first place? The problem now of course, is that he's done pretty much everything anyone could have reasonably expected, a few mistakes and ponderous decisions along the way, but all pretty transparently and with the goodwill of the club at heart. What more can the club do? Its concerning, possibly more concerning than the latter days of Ken Davy to be honest, as at least you could feasibly see a future where "someone better" would come along. Its highly unlikely I would think that we'll EVER get a "better" owner than Dean Hoyle. So what do we have to look forward to? Quite probably more of the same....I don't envy those with their cash and/or livelihoods on the line one bit. The positive perhaps is "we might get lucky one season" and have a decent cup run or flirt with the edge of the play offs... but I don't think the market the club is in that we can really force that outcome, we just need to be ready to take advantage when or if it comes along, and try not to go out of business in the meantime. Probably same as the vast majority of other clubs in the football league to be fair. |
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Post by kes on Mar 4, 2015 14:02:10 GMT 1
This is why st sales are so vital. Imagine how many would have turned up if it was all pay on the gate at around 20 quid on a freezing cold night against Reading.
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Post by terrier1987cas on Mar 4, 2015 14:03:05 GMT 1
My two penneth...
I said immediately after we sacked Robins that Lillis was the right man at the right time to replace him. Our squad suits a high-tempo pressing game and our budget suits bringing in young lads we develop in the academy - I thought Lillis ticked both boxes and was unanimously supported by fans, it was an easy way to get fans back on board whilst improving performances on the pitch, in the short-term at least.
We instead appointed Powell. I had no problem with it to begin with, based on the fact that most Charlton fans rated him very highly, despite a minority disliking the way he set them up to play - it turns out I'm in the minority. I enjoyed the performances we'd put in under Lillis for the most part - we had a go at Cardiff but were outclassed, we were superb down at Reading, and unlucky against Charlton and Watford, whilst showing plenty of heart in the cup against Chesterfield. We played with tempo, harassed teams high up the pitch, utilised Bunn and Scannell to the best of their abilities and played through Coady and Butterfield - in my opinion that's the way we should play. Powell came in and changed things almost immediately, god knows why as things weren't too bad at all during Lillis's short spell, if anything we improved ten-fold from the horror show against Bournemouth. The performances against Boro and Wigan were turgid and we then got embarrassed at Leeds, good performances followed as we seemed to revert to the way Lillis had us playing (Wolves, Blackpool, Ipswich, Derby and Fulham in particular), but since then things have been horrendous to watch (Brentford and Watford being exceptions).
This is where it comes down to what you're happy to watch. If you don't mind the negative football and scraping the odd win, fair enough. On paper we have had a pretty successful season - we're almost safe with under a quarter of the season left and have cleared out plenty of deadwood (although I'd argue that should have allowed some young lads to be given a chance but it hasn't, we've signed Edgar and Miller who are both awful and stick with the same core eleven pretty much every week with nobody else given a chance) - on paper though I can see why it's a good season and if entertainment isn't your priority then you're entitled to say it's been a good season and Powell is doing okay. I however want to see us at least TRY and play with some style, it is after all what we've been promised for the past however many years, but it appears that similar to the pathways nonsense it was all just something that sounded good to say but we never had any intention of actually following through with. I want to see us play with tempo, I want to see us express ourselves using the talented footballers we have on our books, and I want us to give our young players a chance. We did all three in Lillis' short spell in charge but Powell's barely been here 6 months and we now do none.
Not necessarily Powell out, but I'm out until something changes.
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Post by swollentoe on Mar 4, 2015 14:06:39 GMT 1
Season tickets aren't cheap and having a manager who refuses to try and go out and try to win home games against the shite teams is the main reason I'm prob not gonna get one. Its the very least I expect. Added to the wholly uninspiring starting xi's, his refusal to make any positive subs despite how often we're crying out for them, him doing the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome, being told on a fairly regular basis by different board members we cant compete with the bigger teams... There's a few reasons I'm having doubts about getting one Same for me this. its boring at moment my son doesn't even want to attend he is bored we used to go to both home and away. |
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Post by ackworthterrier on Mar 4, 2015 14:10:42 GMT 1
When December 2015 comes I’ll have watched, no supported HTAFC for fifty years. In that time I’ve seen the club in all four divisions, I remember crying when we got relegated from the then Division 1 and then watching us slip steadily into the dark depths of Division Four. Now we’re mid table in the Championship having suffered two really grim away defeats and predictably the usual torrent of despondency, criticism and indeed in some cases perverse gloating and abuse has once again made its presence felt on DATM. I’ve see some lows in my time - perhaps Wadsworth’s season ‘in charge’ really tested my resolve - but hey I’ll still be at the John Smith’s on Saturday supporting the boys. Ah I see a ‘happy clapper’ you may lazily claim unable to provide a critical perspective on all things Powell and Deano. Yes we have defensive frailties almost second to none in this league and the manager could make his substitutions earlier and maybe he’s a bit too cautious at times. Cue the onslaught of over the top agreement! So what are we involved in here; well we have a small to middling sized club with average attendances of around 13000 with a generous and community hearted chairman and indeed a genuine fan (who no doubt has suffered the same many lows and few highs as fans like myself) which is trying to be sustainable and successful in a cynical world of debt and overspend. Without his fulsome financial input of around £37 miilion over the course of 5 or 6 years, this club would be languishing with the dead men. But he’s no ‘ambition’ you may say whatever that means but my questions are: • What is reasonable to expect in terms of a justifiable league position given the club’s status? • What is your solution to the club’s financial imbalance without Dean Hoyle’s further investment? • Which other manager would offer permanent success? As a well-seasoned supporter I’m afraid that I don’t subscribe to the increasingly consumerist view that I’ve paid my season ticket and I want success (certainly no more than me) and I want it now otherwise I’m not coming again. This unwelcome tendency is unfortunately propagated by the constant diet of Sky TV ‘big billing’ and 24 hour highlights where there’s no room for the mundane bits. It’s simple really - you either support the club and offer constructive criticism in the right way when its needed or you don’t. That’s what you ‘buy’ into when you claim to be a supporter. Supporting a club like ours should n’t come with conditions and indeed there’s no guarantee of success either way. |
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Post by Porrohman on Mar 4, 2015 14:14:35 GMT 1
I've had a ST since 1986 but can't see me getting one next season, I got made redundant in October and have had only agency work on minimum wage since then which doesn't go anywhere with a mortgage and family. The jobs I'm applying for are usually conti shifts now too so if I finally strike lucky chances are I'd miss lots of games anyway
Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
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hudmat
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Post by hudmat on Mar 4, 2015 14:15:04 GMT 1
We went from a manager who tried to implement a possession based style with very mixed success to a manager with a very defensive mindset again with mixed success.
Being a town fan is boring and uninspiring right now, Im not saying im not glad to be in where we are but we have to start thinking about what will keep the younger fans attending.
Younger fans aren't going to spend the little money they have, or nag there parents to spend money on the promise that we are aiming to tighten up and maybe this week we will get a clean sheet.
Nor is constantly reminding them how we cant compete financially going to have them flooding to the stadium.
We have to be more positive as a club imo. We need to tell people how we are going to compete, we need a style of football that excites young fans whether we win or lose the game. The whole club needs to rethink how it markets itself and find a way to be more appealing to younger fans and an exciting prospect on a Saturday. "we are where we are" "we can't compete financially" "we need a more defensive mindset" are not phrases that would get many people desperate to dip into there pockets
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Post by teddytheterrier on Mar 4, 2015 14:17:32 GMT 1
The worrying thing is we set up defensively and concede so many goals!
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Post by ackworthterrier on Mar 4, 2015 14:22:09 GMT 1
Have to agree with Leighton terrier. I am exactly the same, watched us in all four divisions. Some brilliant matches in that time but also a lot of rubbish. Yes it might not be particularly good at the moment but I remember watching us home and away sliding towards the bottom of the old division 4, now that was depressing. So I will be renewing my ST because like I have done all my life I just hope that next season will be the one that something really clicks for the team I support. The logo for the OT play off final was 'believe', well I just 'hope', doesn't stop me moaning about the way they play, done a lot of that over the years, but hey TOWN are my team, the one I support.
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hudmat
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Post by hudmat on Mar 4, 2015 14:24:48 GMT 1
We went from a manager who tried to implement a possession based style with very mixed success to a manager with a very defensive mindset again with mixed success. Being a town fan is boring and uninspiring right now, Im not saying im not glad to be in where we are but we have to start thinking about what will keep the younger fans attending. Younger fans aren't going to spend the little money they have, or nag there parents to spend money on the promise that we are aiming to tighten up and maybe this week we will get a clean sheet. Nor is constantly reminding them how we cant compete financially going to have them flooding to the stadium. We have to be more positive as a club imo. We need to tell people how we are going to compete, we need a style of football that excites young fans whether we win or lose the game. The whole club needs to rethink how it markets itself and find a way to be more appealing to younger fans and an exciting prospect on a Saturday. "we are where we are" "we can't compete financially" "we need a more defensive mindset" are not phrases that would get many people desperate to dip into there pockets The thing is we've never been a well supported club at home whatever regime/marketing strategy we've had in place... But does that mean its impossible that we ever could be? |
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Mar 4, 2015 14:31:02 GMT 1
You would have thought that town would have an impressive defensive record with a manager who seems so defensively minded.
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Post by ValleyBlue on Mar 4, 2015 14:50:11 GMT 1
We went from a manager who tried to implement a possession based style with very mixed success to a manager with a very defensive mindset again with mixed success. Being a town fan is boring and uninspiring right now, Im not saying im not glad to be in where we are but we have to start thinking about what will keep the younger fans attending. Younger fans aren't going to spend the little money they have, or nag there parents to spend money on the promise that we are aiming to tighten up and maybe this week we will get a clean sheet. Nor is constantly reminding them how we cant compete financially going to have them flooding to the stadium. We have to be more positive as a club imo. We need to tell people how we are going to compete, we need a style of football that excites young fans whether we win or lose the game. The whole club needs to rethink how it markets itself and find a way to be more appealing to younger fans and an exciting prospect on a Saturday. "we are where we are" "we can't compete financially" "we need a more defensive mindset" are not phrases that would get many people desperate to dip into there pockets Not to mention; we need mediocre players to "over achieve" |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Mar 4, 2015 14:57:44 GMT 1
Have to agree with Leighton terrier. I am exactly the same, watched us in all four divisions. Some brilliant matches in that time but also a lot of rubbish. Yes it might not be particularly good at the moment but I remember watching us home and away sliding towards the bottom of the old division 4, now that was depressing. So I will be renewing my ST because like I have done all my life I just hope that next season will be the one that something really clicks for the team I support. The logo for the OT play off final was 'believe', well I just 'hope', doesn't stop me moaning about the way they play, done a lot of that over the years, but hey TOWN are my team, the one I support. I've been following Town since 1967 and I've witnessed some shocking performances/times that were miles worse than they are today, but the difference was that we barely had two brass farthings to rub together in those days. Hoyle has reportedly put in thirty odd million since he bought the club, but for that amount I bet he expected more than we are currently achieving. We moved from a lower mid table League one side to a lower mid table Championship side. Some might be happy with that, but clearly a lot are not. Datm only represents a small percentage of our overall fan base, but given that our attendances are falling then I'd say that the views on here (positive/negative) are pretty much representative of the majority. I'll keep supporting the club whatever situation we are in but if we are to attract new/more season ticket holders then we've got to be looking to vastly improve on what's on offer just now. |
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Post by Stiggy on Mar 4, 2015 15:18:07 GMT 1
I haven't made my mind up yet. TBH I don't think this years ST have have been good value for money, yes we've had a few good wins but most have been half arsed bore fests!
The signing except for Butters have also all been poor IMO.
I'll probably wait to see if the club sorts out our embarrassing defence before committing as this is where the main problems are.
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Post by royrace on Mar 4, 2015 15:24:11 GMT 1
There's some weird justifications on this thread  I just don't get people moaning about the entertainment I really don't, I don't like watching some of the negative football but this is Town FFS when have any of you had it better in the last 30 years?!?!?! Why the fck would you expect to be entertained by fast attacking football and Town winning week in week out, its never like that at Town and never has been bar a few seasons in the last 50 and you should know by now!!!! I'm a Town *supporter* and I'm there through thick and thin, if there comes a time when I cant due to lack of money, health, other commitments (watching gigs wont be one of them) etc etc etc then I'll pack it in but people giving up cos their team isn't performing week in week out is bizarre to me! I guess there are your devoted season ticket holders and then your fair weathered fans, I think some fans just fall out of love with the club and football in general and get out of the habit which is fair enough but blaming it on the entertainment is total BS imo. That wont put off a serious town supporter but it will put floaters off. The floaters will only come if we're winning a lot and they'd probably be put off again as soon as that stopped. £10 for all and free kids would be a brilliant experiment but you'd still get loads who couldn't be arsed for one reason or another. It will be a smack in the face for Dean for sure if the numbers are disappointing, we're still on course for our highest finish in over 15 years as far as I can tell? |
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Post by terrierng on Mar 4, 2015 15:29:03 GMT 1
Thrice Champions ? @HTAFCpodcast 21m21 minutes ago Worrying stat. #htafc match gate v Reading 10282. Actual attendance 6800. That's over 3000 ST holders not coming! We only have 8500k season card holders. |
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Post by richhtfc on Mar 4, 2015 15:35:13 GMT 1
I'll be renewing again whatever division we're in. My 7 year old is hooked and I enjoy spending time with him whatever the outcome of the match. Its frustrating when we don't win but I understand the limitations we have as a club and am happy with the general progress and standard of football the last few seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 15:37:59 GMT 1
Thrice Champions ? @HTAFCpodcast 21m21 minutes ago Worrying stat. #htafc match gate v Reading 10282. Actual attendance 6800. That's over 3000 ST holders not coming! We only have 8500k season card holders. he didn't say they were all season ticket holders. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 15:46:18 GMT 1
we have 9000 st holders. As shown in the HTAFC accounts.
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Post by kes on Mar 4, 2015 15:56:30 GMT 1
There have been numerous studies about season ticket sales in general across football in England. The conclusions drawn say that brand loyalty is a complete myth and that if a club averages 10k season ticket holders, around a quarter wont renew the next season and a similar amount will become season ticket holders for the new season - it simply isn`t true that it`s the same hard core 10k people year in year out. All clubs lose many supporters every season for a multitude of reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 16:15:01 GMT 1
There's some weird justifications on this thread :D I just don't get people moaning about the entertainment I really don't, I don't like watching some of the negative football but this is Town FFS when have any of you had it better in the last 30 years?!?!?! Why the fck would you expect to be entertained by fast attacking football and Town winning week in week out, its never like that at Town and never has been bar a few seasons in the last 50 and you should know by now!!!! I'm a Town *supporter* and I'm there through thick and thin, if there comes a time when I cant due to lack of money, health, other commitments (watching gigs wont be one of them) etc etc etc then I'll pack it in but people giving up cos their team isn't performing week in week out is bizarre to me! I guess there are your devoted season ticket holders and then your fair weathered fans, I think some fans just fall out of love with the club and football in general and get out of the habit which is fair enough but blaming it on the entertainment is total BS imo. That wont put off a serious town supporter but it will put floaters off. The floaters will only come if we're winning a lot and they'd probably be put off again as soon as that stopped. £10 for all and free kids would be a brilliant experiment but you'd still get loads who couldn't be arsed for one reason or another. It will be a smack in the face for Dean for sure if the numbers are disappointing, we're still on course for our highest finish in over 15 years as far as I can tell? When it was a tenner in against Brentford we only got just over 13k. |
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Post by Detective Boyle on Mar 4, 2015 16:17:54 GMT 1
You pay for something that you're going to enjoy. I wouldn't blame anyone not renewing
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I just don't get people moaning about the entertainment I really don't, I don't like watching some of the negative football but this is Town FFS when have any of you had it better in the last 30 years?!?!?! Why the fck would you expect to be entertained by fast attacking football and Town winning week in week out, its never like that at Town and never has been bar a few seasons in the last 50 and you should know by now!!!! 