Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,834
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Post by Amigo on Mar 18, 2015 10:36:08 GMT 1
I don't think he's up to it but it's not fair to judge him on last night, he wouldn't come up against a better player at this level if he played all season. I didn't think he gave in at all he kept plugging away and working hard there was just a big difference in quality between him and Redmond but he could've been helped more at times by his team mates. In the first half coady and especially hogg were very quick doubling up on redmond but as we were playing a 'floating' left mid ie. no left mid that couldn't happen every time. Not sure how much encouragement he got from his team mates but they helped him out on the pitch plenty. First half yes but the second half there were quite a few occassions when he was left with 2 players coming at him. Like I said I don't think he is good enough but he would've been helped with having someone like Scannell in front of him who drops back everytime the opposition have the ball. |
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Post by terrierfortythree on Mar 18, 2015 10:40:49 GMT 1
out of contract in the summer? another young player not up to scratch it would appear
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 18, 2015 10:53:40 GMT 1
Casrroll was responsible for the second goal at Brentford but played ok after that. I think he is probably not up to scratch for this level. Remember though that Redmond was all over Dixon at their place - so he would have struggled as well. Shame we didn't see Robinson up against him to see what he is really made of in comparison.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Mar 18, 2015 11:13:02 GMT 1
I don't think he's up to it but it's not fair to judge him on last night, he wouldn't come up against a better player at this level if he played all season. I didn't think he gave in at all he kept plugging away and working hard there was just a big difference in quality between him and Redmond but he could've been helped more at times by his team mates. totally agree, there's a difference in quality that he was up against last night compared to some of the usual cloggers in this division! listening to oreagan on the way back from the game he said redmond was the best player on the pitch, couldnt argue with that at all! and as for criticising the youngsters im amazed players like holmes dont get stick and are immune from criticism, he was deemed the saviour by a few after that game against blackpool a few seasons back, what have we seen from him since?? fuck all thats what! there are plenty of youngsters at this club that arent good enough! but for the time being they will have to fill in in this threadbare squad that is riddled with injuries and players that arent 'good enough'! |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Mar 18, 2015 11:18:25 GMT 1
In the first half coady and especially hogg were very quick doubling up on redmond but as we were playing a 'floating' left mid ie. no left mid that couldn't happen every time. Not sure how much encouragement he got from his team mates but they helped him out on the pitch plenty. First half yes but the second half there were quite a few occassions when he was left with 2 players coming at him. Like I said I don't think he is good enough but he would've been helped with having someone like Scannell in front of him who drops back everytime the opposition have the ball. Yeah fair enough, that's the problem with that formation, it relies a lot on Hogg to be everywhere and the left back does get exposed at times. But that is part and parcel of being a professional footballer, you will be exposed at times and you've got to deal with that. The main problem I have is that he never tried to physically impose himself on Redmond. Look at how many times Basong fouled Vaughan. If the other guy is better than you, go in strong a few times and see if he's got the heart to keep on coming for more. This is especially the case for skilful wingers. Look at the Dale Stephens tackle on Hammill last season. Carroll was too meek and let Redmond do what he wanted to do. You can get away with poor ability if you have the mentality to compensate. Carroll appears to have neither. I actually thought he looked alright at the beginning of last season, but with him being 24 in August I think we'd be better trying to bring young Boyle along. It wouldn't have been a good idea matching him up against Redmond though. |
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Yesss
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 687 
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Post by Yesss on Mar 18, 2015 11:51:26 GMT 1
Carroll was garbage. Bet Wright/Boyle would've been much better. better? I doubt it. I doubt they'd have even been better. How about we acknowledge that he was up against a very good player tonight, and that he found it difficult at times. He wasn't garbage, none of them were. No, he was garbage and always will be. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 12:25:16 GMT 1
He's never looked any good to me. Have to wonder what the scouting basis/info was for signing him. Some young players look raw but it's obvious there's a player in there...others look miles away like they could never make it. I wonder what level did Carroll stand out at?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 14:23:58 GMT 1
That touch on the half way line which led to their equaliser was simply appalling. That should have led to us launching an attack yet led to us conceding due to his inability to play a ridiculously basic touch that most 12 year old kids do every Saturday morning without any problem. It wasn't even bobbling...
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 18, 2015 14:31:51 GMT 1
lots of bad touches last night..some from some experienced and very well paid individuals.. sitting in too deep cost us 2 goals last night, the build up to them is pretty immaterial at times, we dropped back and invited them in twice and it cost us 2 goals.. lets change what we do as a team before getting at individual errors..
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Post by kaykie on Mar 18, 2015 14:35:09 GMT 1
He was up against an exceptional player to be fair, but he really did look totally out of his depth. Not just in his attempts to cope with Redmond, but in his complete lack of ability when he actually had the ball. Poor management by Powell IMO because it was as obvious as it possibly could be that he was really struggling . Should have been replaced long before he was but Powell waited and waited until they equalised from, no surprise, a mistake by carroll. As soon as he made the change, Norwich stopped killing us down that flank. Spot on! He did ok in the first half but had a mare in the second. I felt sorry for him as he was up against it but he should have been subbed earlier. Smith made a big difference when he took his position. i thought he was awful in the 1st half and even worse in the 2nd.even the missus said hes havin a mare and needs to be brought off at half time.in his defence he wont come up against too much better than redmond |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Mar 18, 2015 14:53:13 GMT 1
That touch on the half way line which led to their equaliser was simply appalling. That should have led to us launching an attack yet led to us conceding due to his inability to play a ridiculously basic touch that most 12 year old kids do every Saturday morning without any problem. It wasn't even bobbling... We had plenty of opportunities to defend the first goal better, losing the ball in that position, may be where we lost possession to Norwich but poor defending after it was the reason we conceded the goal. Butterfield could have followed his man Hoolahan from the give and go, for instance. I think its extremely harsh to blame him for the goal. In his first start of the season, I think its not surprising he wasn't at his best but good luck to him for the rest of the season. |
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Post by terraceterrier on Mar 18, 2015 15:15:01 GMT 1
Spot on! He did ok in the first half but had a mare in the second. I felt sorry for him as he was up against it but he should have been subbed earlier. Smith made a big difference when he took his position. i thought he was awful in the 1st half and even worse in the 2nd.even the missus said hes havin a mare and needs to be brought off at half time.in his defence he wont come up against too much better than redmond Surely the worst Town performance since Sinnott came on in the cup......nice lad but needs to find another profession simply not even conference.....perhaps they felt they had to play him since it was St Pats day ? |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 18, 2015 15:39:26 GMT 1
it took us an age to sort out the left side of our defence..the kid had been run ragged by then..Redmond is a tricky, quick little shit and whittaker does not play full back in their system..it was hard for the lad..
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Post by kennyk2 on Mar 18, 2015 15:55:00 GMT 1
I hope that Powell wasn't playing him just to prove a point to the chairman regarding our lack of strength in depth - wouldn't have thought so.
If the manager has faith in his abilities then he has to forgive any mistakes for the first few games as this is a massive step up for the lad. You keep faith with him until his position in the team is totally untenable, otherwise you have lost him forever.
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Post by sabailand on Mar 18, 2015 16:18:13 GMT 1
If we`d have won this topic probably wouldnt even have started.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 18, 2015 19:02:04 GMT 1
Casrroll was responsible for the second goal at Brentford but played ok after that. I think he is probably not up to scratch for this level. Remember though that Redmond was all over Dixon at their place - so he would have struggled as well. Shame we didn't see Robinson up against him to see what he is really made of in comparison. Dixon wouldn't have made the error that contributed to their first goal, but it wouldn't surprise me if he struggled just as much one-on-one. I'm not overly keen on Robinson either, who I think is bloody lazy, but he was clearly a big loss yesterday. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 19:29:05 GMT 1
Come on lads,stop giving opinions,it only starts fights
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 18, 2015 20:22:03 GMT 1
Casrroll was responsible for the second goal at Brentford but played ok after that. I think he is probably not up to scratch for this level. Remember though that Redmond was all over Dixon at their place - so he would have struggled as well. Shame we didn't see Robinson up against him to see what he is really made of in comparison. Dixon wouldn't have made the error that contributed to their first goal, but it wouldn't surprise me if he struggled just as much one-on-one. I'm not overly keen on Robinson either, who I think is bloody lazy, but he was clearly a big loss yesterday. Agree that Dixon , or pretty much all the left backs in this division are going to have a tough time against redmond. hes a very good player. carroll couldn't offer much resistance at all but that wasn't the whole story of it. He couldn't control the ball, or make a simple pass either and thats got nothing to do with Redmond. Might have just had a very bad day but Powell did him no favours by not removing him earlier and it was an obvious mistake that cost us. |
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uw2ba
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 442
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Post by uw2ba on Mar 18, 2015 20:26:37 GMT 1
People saying it was one game leave him alone, I remember barnsley away last year when we lost 1-0 he was absolutely shocking then, and whoever said id like to see you against redmond, you are forgetting that carrolls proffesion is to stop wingers beating him right ? Fair enough a quality winger beating him a few times but every single time someone ran at him he got beat, give me his wage and id happily accept your challenge
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Post by terracesider on Mar 18, 2015 21:03:09 GMT 1
I agree with those who say he just isn't good enough.
But; when the line up was announced it was fairly obvious that he was in for a torrid time;
- no left winger to assist him in dealing with one of the most skillful players in the division -
And this arranged by a guy who won a number of International caps ans LEFT BACK!!
It will be interesting to see on Saturday whether Mr Powell uses him again...
I hope Robinson is back, as no doubt the word has gone round that we have a severe weakness down the left hand side, and another confidence destroying afternoon awaits the lad...
UTT
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Post by shawsie on Mar 18, 2015 23:54:54 GMT 1
lots of bad touches last night..some from some experienced and very well paid individuals.. sitting in too deep cost us 2 goals last night, the build up to them is pretty immaterial at times, we dropped back and invited them in twice and it cost us 2 goals.. lets change what we do as a team before getting at individual errors.. Not true fella.....Carrolls shite touch trying a quick breakaway cost us the first, and we didn't clear the ball well enough from a quickly and wrongly taken set piece for the second. I agree we defend too deep too often, but last night I don't think that was the case all that much. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 19, 2015 14:39:51 GMT 1
carrolls poor touch was then complimented by us running away into the box and then butterfield failing to go with hooligan on the one two, deep in our box...
second goal was from dropping deep at the restart and failing to clear it properly, then butterfield held onto it instead of just clearing it, the ref gave a wrong decision but it should not have come to that.. the free kick is played in and we are already on the 6 yard line and the melee breaks to them and its a poke from 6/7 yards..
they may well have had the lucky break if we had pushed a few yards outside the box, but it might have been a lucky poke from further out???
make the other side have to do something or create something is the key rather than just be able to lump it in and keep it there.. percentages..
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 19, 2015 14:40:52 GMT 1
im not blaming butterfield either, its a team game, team is in the wrong place at the wrong time for too long, that's all and it leads to individual errors being fatal..
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Post by terrythetownterrier on Mar 23, 2015 11:48:00 GMT 1
Has anyone considered the fact that he's playing out of position?
The lad is a Center Mid in the box to box mold. He gets used at Left Back due to his defensive qualities (which don't get a chance to shine at Left back where he's exposed too often) he's good in the air, is strong and quick.
He's not great in one on one situations which is where the problems are coming from and this seems to be affecting his confidence.
I reckon he needs a move somewhere to get some game time and confidence but until then we should try support him.
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Post by softboy on Mar 23, 2015 12:07:00 GMT 1
The guy is 22 - hardly a young kid. If CP does not have the confidence to play him feeling it is better to switch Smith accross and play Edgar then the guy/lad may as well go somewhere else.
Yes he had a few dodgy times against Norwich but is David Edgar really a better player than him?
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Post by terrythetownterrier on Mar 23, 2015 12:17:07 GMT 1
The guy is 22 - hardly a young kid. If CP does not have the confidence to play him feeling it is better to switch Smith accross and play Edgar then the guy/lad may as well go somewhere else. Yes he had a few dodgy times against Norwich but is David Edgar really a better player than him? The team hasn't been performing well at all lately and Carroll hasn't played in most of those games. It's only fair that other players be given a chance, but when they are they shouldn't be written off so quickly as CP seems to do on a regular basis. He should try playing people in their actual positions and see how we get on. We're desperately close to being involved in the race for the drop, so we need to make ourselves solid before that, playing players out position and us dogging players isn't going to help our cause, it's times like this we need to stick together and support the team. Also he was up against a Premier League level player in Nathan Redmond, what would you expect from a "3rd choice left back"? Baring in mind that player isn't actually a left back. Edgar isn't better than him for what it's worth, and he's a 27 year old playing in his correct position compared to a 22 year old who is playing out of position. Plus he's Canadian!! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 10:59:04 GMT 1
Has anyone considered the fact that he's playing out of position? The lad is a Center Mid in the box to box mold. He gets used at Left Back due to his defensive qualities (which don't get a chance to shine at Left back where he's exposed too often) he's good in the air, is strong and quick. He's not great in one on one situations which is where the problems are coming from and this seems to be affecting his confidence. I reckon he needs a move somewhere to get some game time and confidence but until then we should try support him. You say he's a Centre Mid but we signed him as a left back, that's where he played. "Some experience of centre midfield" LINK Added to that Partick Thistle thought they were getting a left back. LINK |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 24, 2015 12:03:22 GMT 1
The guy is 22 - hardly a young kid. If CP does not have the confidence to play him feeling it is better to switch Smith accross and play Edgar then the guy/lad may as well go somewhere else. Yes he had a few dodgy times against Norwich but is David Edgar really a better player than him? The team hasn't been performing well at all lately and Carroll hasn't played in most of those games. It's only fair that other players be given a chance, but when they are they shouldn't be written off so quickly as CP seems to do on a regular basis. He should try playing people in their actual positions and see how we get on. We're desperately close to being involved in the race for the drop, so we need to make ourselves solid before that, playing players out position and us dogging players isn't going to help our cause, it's times like this we need to stick together and support the team. Also he was up against a Premier League level player in Nathan Redmond, what would you expect from a "3rd choice left back"? Baring in mind that player isn't actually a left back. Edgar isn't better than him for what it's worth, and he's a 27 year old playing in his correct position compared to a 22 year old who is playing out of position. Plus he's Canadian!! So would you drop butterfield hogg or Coady for jake , Mrs Carroll ? |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Mar 24, 2015 12:39:56 GMT 1
The guy is 22 - hardly a young kid. If CP does not have the confidence to play him feeling it is better to switch Smith accross and play Edgar then the guy/lad may as well go somewhere else. Yes he had a few dodgy times against Norwich but is David Edgar really a better player than him? The team hasn't been performing well at all lately and Carroll hasn't played in most of those games. It's only fair that other players be given a chance, but when they are they shouldn't be written off so quickly as CP seems to do on a regular basis. He should try playing people in their actual positions and see how we get on. We're desperately close to being involved in the race for the drop, so we need to make ourselves solid before that, playing players out position and us dogging players isn't going to help our cause, it's times like this we need to stick together and support the team. Also he was up against a Premier League level player in Nathan Redmond, what would you expect from a "3rd choice left back"? Baring in mind that player isn't actually a left back. Edgar isn't better than him for what it's worth, and he's a 27 year old playing in his correct position compared to a 22 year old who is playing out of position. Plus he's Canadian!! And being Canadian means what exactly??  |
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Post by ringdisco on Mar 24, 2015 12:48:28 GMT 1
The guy is 22 - hardly a young kid. If CP does not have the confidence to play him feeling it is better to switch Smith accross and play Edgar then the guy/lad may as well go somewhere else. Yes he had a few dodgy times against Norwich but is David Edgar really a better player than him? Carroll was taken off because of injury. |
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