mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 895
|
Post by mallyb on Mar 26, 2015 11:06:45 GMT 1
I don't know why people believe in the summer we will be signing these high quality players on bigger salaries because of the clear out. There is no evidence, if anything, the opposite.
Dean says there will not be wholesale changes. Dean admits the squad is too thin at the minute yet we are already running out the excuses how this is a bad time to sign players. Let's see how other clubs at our level manage today to see if that is true. Perhaps our problem is we are not prepared to pay a decent proportion of their wages. This was the same excuse used in January yet there was plenty of activity at other clubs. This summer we will sign less players and I would bet on less money than many that were let go in January.
Chris powells remit was to get more out of the squad and he hasn't done that. There is no measurable progress this season so now what. Keep him and if we carry on like this next season? Sack him partway through and scramble to stay up again.
Dean acknowledges the manager is the key man at the club so how about bringing in a manger that can make a difference instead of people that will tow the company line in front of the press. If Powell is that man back him in the summer and now to make sure we stay up.
Dean needs to focus more on first team matters because canal side is a nice to have and a good asset for his investment but is not helping the first team one bit.
Final complaint, we need to stop talking down our chances and ability to compete. Sport is an aspirational business for fans, and kids don't want to be part of something where the owner is falling over himself to say we can't compete all the time. I think he has reset expectations but to believe progress is this and this is somehow acceptable is a joke. Seems like the worst business model in history. Compare Norwich or Fullham with Rotherham performance, money was irrelevant, stop talking us down and telling us to be grateful that we are surviving. perhaps the owner needs one of his t-shirts back
|
|
chinaski
Frank Worthington Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,919
|
Post by chinaski on Mar 26, 2015 11:16:19 GMT 1
Agree with the mentality of the club/fans. Regardless of budget, if you're constantly giving off the impression that mere survival is acceptable, what incentive do the players have to achieve a higher league position?
|
|
|
Post by jqhtfc on Mar 26, 2015 11:26:08 GMT 1
We don't need to pay big bucks but we do need to be clever and not fill the squad with tripe like David Edgar or some charlton cast offs, use what money we do have to get get the best we can get in key positions then use the Loan market for a couple of season long loans much like Brentford have done over the past couple of seasons.
|
|
|
Post by bro600 on Mar 26, 2015 11:27:07 GMT 1
Adam Le Fondre was some indication of the quality of player we want to sign and it really wasn't the clubs fault he chose Bolton. The message is we are no longer signing for signings sake and i've got to agree that over the last few years it as seemed that managers have done that. I'm watching today with interest because i find it hard to believe that we can't find a player for the future or we indeed need right now who we can't sign today. Hoyle has stated that Powell has to have time to put his stamp on the club so if there are no significant signings in the summer questions will have to be asked of Dean Hoyle's intentions for the club as there will be no excuses next season.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 11:28:37 GMT 1
anyone wonder if we'll be a side of promoted academy products next season?
|
|
|
Post by jqhtfc on Mar 26, 2015 11:31:32 GMT 1
anyone wonder if we'll be a side of promoted academy products next season? Nothing wrong with that if they prove good enough
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 11:34:08 GMT 1
I don't know why people believe in the summer we will be signing these high quality players on bigger salaries because of the clear out. There is no evidence, if anything, the opposite. Dean says there will not be wholesale changes. Dean admits the squad is too thin at the minute yet we are already running out the excuses how this is a bad time to sign players. Let's see how other clubs at our level manage today to see if that is true. Perhaps our problem is we are not prepared to pay a decent proportion of their wages. This was the same excuse used in January yet there was plenty of activity at other clubs. This summer we will sign less players and I would bet on less money than many that were let go in January. Chris powells remit was to get more out of the squad and he hasn't done that. There is no measurable progress this season so now what. Keep him and if we carry on like this next season? Sack him partway through and scramble to stay up again. Dean acknowledges the manager is the key man at the club so how about bringing in a manger that can make a difference instead of people that will tow the company line in front of the press. If Powell is that man back him in the summer and now to make sure we stay up. Dean needs to focus more on first team matters because canal side is a nice to have and a good asset for his investment but is not helping the first team one bit. Final complaint, we need to stop talking down our chances and ability to compete. Sport is an aspirational business for fans, and kids don't want to be part of something where the owner is falling over himself to say we can't compete all the time. I think he has reset expectations but to believe progress is this and this is somehow acceptable is a joke. Seems like the worst business model in history. Compare Norwich or Fullham with Rotherham performance, money was irrelevant, stop talking us down and telling us to be grateful that we are surviving. perhaps the owner needs one of his t-shirts back Before Powell took over we were averaging 0.8 points per game, which would have seen us get 37 points over the course of the season and most likely be relegated. Since he's been here we've been averaging 1.17, which over a full season would see us get 54 points and stay up. It is improvement, certainly not massive strides and there has to be question marks next to him, but to sack him and start again would seem a baffling decision, especially when he's had no real opportunity to shape the squad. I don't expect wholesale changes in the summer, however 3 or 4 quality first teamers (mainly at the back) would make a huge difference to the starting 11. I do agree with your point on talking down our chances - finances do play a big part in this league and we are behind others, but I'm not sure labouring the point helps (it also doesn't mean we can't compete at the top of the table) and, as you say, the difference between the Norwich and Rotherham performance had nothing to do with the wage bill we were up against.
|
|
|
Post by Big Ern on Mar 26, 2015 11:47:35 GMT 1
I don't know why people believe in the summer we will be signing these high quality players on bigger salaries because of the clear out. There is no evidence, if anything, the opposite. Dean says there will not be wholesale changes. Dean admits the squad is too thin at the minute yet we are already running out the excuses how this is a bad time to sign players. Let's see how other clubs at our level manage today to see if that is true. Perhaps our problem is we are not prepared to pay a decent proportion of their wages. This was the same excuse used in January yet there was plenty of activity at other clubs. This summer we will sign less players and I would bet on less money than many that were let go in January. Chris powells remit was to get more out of the squad and he hasn't done that. There is no measurable progress this season so now what. Keep him and if we carry on like this next season? Sack him partway through and scramble to stay up again. Dean acknowledges the manager is the key man at the club so how about bringing in a manger that can make a difference instead of people that will tow the company line in front of the press. If Powell is that man back him in the summer and now to make sure we stay up. Dean needs to focus more on first team matters because canal side is a nice to have and a good asset for his investment but is not helping the first team one bit. Final complaint, we need to stop talking down our chances and ability to compete. Sport is an aspirational business for fans, and kids don't want to be part of something where the owner is falling over himself to say we can't compete all the time. I think he has reset expectations but to believe progress is this and this is somehow acceptable is a joke. Seems like the worst business model in history. Compare Norwich or Fullham with Rotherham performance, money was irrelevant, stop talking us down and telling us to be grateful that we are surviving. perhaps the owner needs one of his t-shirts back Before Powell took over we were averaging 0.8 points per game, which would have seen us get 37 points over the course of the season and most likely be relegated. Since he's been here we've been averaging 1.17, which over a full season would see us get 54 points and stay up. It is improvement, certainly not massive strides and there has to be question marks next to him, but to sack him and start again would seem a baffling decision, especially when he's had no real opportunity to shape the squad. I don't expect wholesale changes in the summer, however 3 or 4 quality first teamers (mainly at the back) would make a huge difference to the starting 11. I do agree with your point on talking down our chances - finances do play a big part in this league and we are behind others, but I'm not sure labouring the point helps (it also doesn't mean we can't compete at the top of the table) and, as you say, the difference between the Norwich and Rotherham performance had nothing to do with the wage bill we were up against. Those stats are pretty meaningless though. There are many variables to consider. Who is to say that Robins wouldn't have turned it around and averaged more than powell has?
|
|
|
Post by bro600 on Mar 26, 2015 11:49:49 GMT 1
Before Powell took over we were averaging 0.8 points per game, which would have seen us get 37 points over the course of the season and most likely be relegated. Since he's been here we've been averaging 1.17, which over a full season would see us get 54 points and stay up. It is improvement, certainly not massive strides and there has to be question marks next to him, but to sack him and start again would seem a baffling decision, especially when he's had no real opportunity to shape the squad. I don't expect wholesale changes in the summer, however 3 or 4 quality first teamers (mainly at the back) would make a huge difference to the starting 11. I do agree with your point on talking down our chances - finances do play a big part in this league and we are behind others, but I'm not sure labouring the point helps (it also doesn't mean we can't compete at the top of the table) and, as you say, the difference between the Norwich and Rotherham performance had nothing to do with the wage bill we were up against. Those stats are pretty meaningless though. There are many variables to consider. Who is to say that Robins wouldn't have turned it around and averaged more than powell has? Surely the answer to your question is Mark Robins! He bottled out and said he couldn't manage..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 11:53:46 GMT 1
Before Powell took over we were averaging 0.8 points per game, which would have seen us get 37 points over the course of the season and most likely be relegated. Since he's been here we've been averaging 1.17, which over a full season would see us get 54 points and stay up. It is improvement, certainly not massive strides and there has to be question marks next to him, but to sack him and start again would seem a baffling decision, especially when he's had no real opportunity to shape the squad. I don't expect wholesale changes in the summer, however 3 or 4 quality first teamers (mainly at the back) would make a huge difference to the starting 11. I do agree with your point on talking down our chances - finances do play a big part in this league and we are behind others, but I'm not sure labouring the point helps (it also doesn't mean we can't compete at the top of the table) and, as you say, the difference between the Norwich and Rotherham performance had nothing to do with the wage bill we were up against. Those stats are pretty meaningless though. There are many variables to consider. Who is to say that Robins wouldn't have turned it around and averaged more than powell has? Ultimately how else can you judge a manager other than on points? I'd say it is meaningless to debate what another manager could have achieved, when there is no possible way of knowing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 11:59:59 GMT 1
Powell has got more out of the squad. He's got about 8 players out of it.
|
|
|
Post by fredcarno1 on Mar 26, 2015 12:16:27 GMT 1
Quality cost money and we haven't enough to attract a lot of players that are proven at this level. We need to look at some younger lads from League 1 or 2 who we may be able to sell on for a profit. If the kind of player we are looking at is of the ilk of Edgar we are down next year IMO.
The thing that worries me is Powell doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will take a risk on a couple of League 1 or 2 players and will play safe with players that have played at this level or with him before. Would not be surprised to see us sign a couple of players from Charltons 2nd team or even god forbid Edgar on a permanent !!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:17:43 GMT 1
Quality cost money and we haven't enough to attract a lot of players that are proven at this level. We need to look at some younger lads from League 1 or 2 who we may be able to sell on for a profit. If the kind of player we are looking at is of the ilk of Edgar we are down next year IMO. The thing that worries me is Powell doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will take a risk on a couple of League 1 or 2 players and will play safe with players that have played at this level or with him before. Would not be surprised to see us sign a couple of players from Charltons 2nd team or even god forbid Edgar on a permanent !!!! dear god no!!!
|
|
|
Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Mar 26, 2015 12:22:59 GMT 1
As stats are the best judge its only fair to point out that Robins average this season was 0 points so if he had stayed we clearly would have lost every game and already have our League 1 badges ready for our shirts!
|
|
|
Post by jqhtfc on Mar 26, 2015 12:24:41 GMT 1
Quality cost money and we haven't enough to attract a lot of players that are proven at this level. We need to look at some younger lads from League 1 or 2 who we may be able to sell on for a profit. If the kind of player we are looking at is of the ilk of Edgar we are down next year IMO. The thing that worries me is Powell doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will take a risk on a couple of League 1 or 2 players and will play safe with players that have played at this level or with him before. Would not be surprised to see us sign a couple of players from Charltons 2nd team or even god forbid Edgar on a permanent !!!! Agree and that's what worries me
|
|
Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,824
|
Post by Amigo on Mar 26, 2015 12:33:33 GMT 1
Spend, spend, spend... We as a club are pretty skint, the revenue isn't there, Hoyle doesn't want to throw silly money at it (fair enough in my opinion) and with the size of some of the clubs in this league and the money at their disposal we are going to be pissing in to the wind a lot of the time.
Where's the money coming from to "back Powell in the summer"?
Chopping and changing manager all the time isn't working so I can't see any reason to do that again. The last 2 games although the results have been disappointing the performances have been good and we could easily have come out with 6 points.
What's this about Dean not focusing enough on first team matters? Bollocks I'd imagine.
We are about where we should be and yes we'd all love to be doing better (as would 90% of teams in the football league) but things are nowhere near as bad as is constantly made up on here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:37:15 GMT 1
We don't have vast amounts of cash to throw about. We cannot compete on wages. What do people expect us to do? Splash money we don't have and gamble? Like it or not we need our academy to produce and quickly.
|
|
|
Post by sadbuthopeful on Mar 26, 2015 12:38:19 GMT 1
Standard DATM OP...
Admits we haven't strengthened in January when we really needed to.
Then complains Powell isn't good enough.
However, he's (probably) managed to keep us up without doing all the strengthening.
Just look at the players available to clubs around us - some would say he's worked blooming miracles!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:44:08 GMT 1
Powell has got more out of the squad. He's got about 8 players out of it. exuse me the club did just to put the record straight
|
|
chinaski
Frank Worthington Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,919
|
Post by chinaski on Mar 26, 2015 12:45:31 GMT 1
I'd be interested to know how much Brentford's squad cost? It's not all about money. We have a decent squad, in my opinion it's all down to the mentality of the club from top to bottom at the moment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:45:38 GMT 1
We don't have vast amounts of cash to throw about. We cannot compete on wages. What do people expect us to do? Splash money we don't have and gamble? Like it or not we need our academy to produce and quickly. you make a fair point about academy but it takes time but we will see
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:46:43 GMT 1
I'd be interested to know how much Brentford's squad cost? It's not all about money. We have a decent squad, in my opinion it's all down to the mentality of the club from top to bottom at the moment. your last sentence is spot on
|
|
|
Post by bro600 on Mar 26, 2015 12:55:27 GMT 1
We don't have vast amounts of cash to throw about. We cannot compete on wages. What do people expect us to do? Splash money we don't have and gamble? Like it or not we need our academy to produce and quickly. We do need to equal these two equations out.. There is not enough experience in the first team squad to carry an academy product through the system so we do need to invest. Investing isn't just about spend spend spend.. You are either poundland or Marks and spencers with the bit in the middle.. Spending on stock/squad doesn't always mean you are actually spending money it means you are increasing your stock value and increasing your chances of further financial gain through future transfers.. Blackburn/us and Jordan Rhodes being a perfect example of two clubs who spent, got the goals and then the return.. Any championship club IMO as to play it this way to survive.
|
|
|
Post by teddytheterrier on Mar 26, 2015 13:08:42 GMT 1
anyone wonder if we'll be a side of promoted academy products next season? I was thinking something similar the other day! could be a case of throwing them into the team, wether there good enough or not!
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Mar 26, 2015 14:29:41 GMT 1
anyone wonder if we'll be a side of promoted academy products next season? Well, I know what Frankiesleftpeg thinks - they should ALL be playing.....NOW!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Mar 26, 2015 14:31:47 GMT 1
Looking at stuff in T'Examiner today, it is clear we will clear out another 7 or 8 players who are out of contract this year, plus perhaps Hammill - if that, combined with the clear-out earlier, doesn't give Powell some "wriggle room" in the Summer, we really are doomed!
But we'll be OK - bet the wheels are in motion right now!!
|
|
|
Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 26, 2015 14:51:29 GMT 1
I'd be interested to know how much Brentford's squad cost? It's not all about money. We have a decent squad, in my opinion it's all down to the mentality of the club from top to bottom at the moment. Totally agree it isn't all about money, Forest, Wigan, Man Utd, Prem Clubs in Europe, etc. back that up. However, I don't agree with your comment about the mentality at the club and what is also no doubt an accusation thrown at so called 'happy clappers'. No-one is going to be 'happy' with this season if we carry on as we are and most will have specific concerns/issues, including DH himslef. I was critical of the Edgar signing from the start, do feel Powell is too conservative and would prefer to have seen academy players given a go, rather than putting squad players in one of their lesser positions. However, it's simply that some of us accept there are other clubs all trying to do the same things, whilst all other things being equal we aren't a team with a financial advantage, so it's not as easy as Terrierrpark, MallyB, Readingterrier, etc make out. Doesn't mean we're happy, just we don't 'expect' and act all histerical. DH appears to have chose to play the long-game, feeling the odds of succeeding with the boom or bust approach are minimal for a club with our clout. Therefore, if the academy doesn't pay-off (I'd argue we should expect to see a return from now), then we can say he may have been better looking at the short-term, as much as for every Brentford and Bournmouth there are more Forests, Wigans, etc.
|
|
|
Post by jqhtfc on Mar 26, 2015 15:01:25 GMT 1
Wouldn't say Brentford have gone boom or bust though, rosler started the ball rolling with them a few years re style of play and such a few years ago something warburton has built on don't get me wrong they have spent money although not loads especially on the playing side but they have spent well and used the loan market extremely well...have we?.
|
|
|
Post by teddytheterrier on Mar 26, 2015 15:04:53 GMT 1
Wouldn't say Brentford have gone boom or bust though, rosler started the ball rolling with them a few years re style of play and such a few years ago something warburton has built on don't get me wrong they have spent money although not loads especially on the playing side but they have spent well and used the loan market extremely well...have we?. Have to agree! Pritchard has been a great loan signing for them!
|
|
|
Post by jqhtfc on Mar 26, 2015 15:11:17 GMT 1
Wouldn't say Brentford have gone boom or bust though, rosler started the ball rolling with them a few years re style of play and such a few years ago something warburton has built on don't get me wrong they have spent money although not loads especially on the playing side but they have spent well and used the loan market extremely well...have we?. Have to agree! Pritchard has been a great loan signing for them! Torel from arsenal as well, plus in league one forshaw and bidwell from Everton, before both became permanent they use it very well to add to the squad
|
|