John Barnes.

[Nickhudds.UTT]

Great prog on ITV 4.
Amazing player in those Liverpool years.
Showed him scoring for Watford at our old ground too.
Just not the same these days as regards crowds and characters like him.

[Nickhudds.UTT]

Given me a bit of insight into just how hard CP has probably worked and overcome barriers to establish himself as one of very very few black managers.
Even though many of us moan.

[capitalterrier]

Notice how he declined to answer how many jobs he'd applied for, when questioned about attempting to gain another managerial position?

[htafctaunton]

Just want to say John Barnes was a thoroughly entertaining footballer.

And a genuinely nice guy.

[Nickhudds.UTT]

Mar 31, 2015 23:13:58 GMT 1 htafctaunton said:

Just want to say John Barnes was a thoroughly entertaining footballer.

And a genuinely nice guy.

The 89 end of season game when it was a heatwave in May, the Fever pitch superb film around that event.
Not the same these days.

[Frankiesleftpeg]

Grossly overrated player who play eighty odd games for England on the strength of one goal against Brazil. In most of his England games he hardly broke sweat.

[htfcfcfc]

Apr 1, 2015 9:35:10 GMT 1 Frankiesleftpeg said:

Grossly overrated player who play eighty odd games for England on the strength of one goal against Brazil. In most of his England games he hardly broke sweat.

From memory he whipped a couple of decent ball in for Lineker in the Argentina game. One he scored. He should have scored the other. Could have been a whole different story

[Chips Longhorn]

He was amazing for Liverpool but shit for England.... He has really blotted his copybook I m o by stating he can't get into football cos of his colour.. Try telling that to the tranmere fans

[royrace]

Didn't watch the programme but I'd be amazed if anyone gave him a management job again but its nothing whatsoever to do with his colour! IIRC wasn't he given the Celtic job but was rubbish then Tranmere took a punt on him and he was absolutely terrible? I mean really shit. I seem to remember he barely won a single game and brought in a load of expensive shit players. Nothing to do with his colour, he's just a shit manager like a lot of great (and not so great) players. I guess his ego wont allow him to admit it so he's playing the race card, poor form imo, very poor. He's similar in some respects to Tony Adams, brilliant career, obviously really wanted to be a manager and was prepared to start low-ish down the leagues but just doesn't have the necessary aptitude. Someone with a CV like Barnes would either have to buy his own club or find a club very low down the leagues who are desperate enough to risk it all on a big name with an appalling management CV. I cant think why anyone would think he should be given a chance as a manager after his previous attempts but I would imagine if he took his badges he could easily find a coaching job in one of the four leagues and take it from there, if he's good enough he'll be given a chance eventually.

[Captainslapper]

Apr 1, 2015 9:35:10 GMT 1 Frankiesleftpeg said:

Grossly overrated player who play eighty odd games for England on the strength of one goal against Brazil. In most of his England games he hardly broke sweat.

think thats basically right. Great at club level and shame for him that his peak years came when english clubs were banned in europe. At international level he lived off that goal in the Maracana his whole career and never got anywhere near showing his club form.
Now he just comes across as a bitter individual trying to hide behind his race as a reason why he can't make it as a manager when everyone knows its because he was utterly shite at it.

[ACW]

Apr 1, 2015 9:35:10 GMT 1 Frankiesleftpeg said:

Grossly overrated player who play eighty odd games for England on the strength of one goal against Brazil. In most of his England games he hardly broke sweat.

He underacheived as an England player - plenty with dozens of caps done that over the years - but you surely can't dispute what he did in the domestic game? He could dribble, pass, shoot and head - and he re-invented himself as a holding midfielder to great effect in his later years. The jury is out on his international career, but his domestic performances and achievements deserve the praise and credit they get.

[ACW]

Apr 1, 2015 9:51:40 GMT 1 htfcfcfc said:

Apr 1, 2015 9:35:10 GMT 1 Frankiesleftpeg said:

Grossly overrated player who play eighty odd games for England on the strength of one goal against Brazil. In most of his England games he hardly broke sweat.

From memory he whipped a couple of decent ball in for Lineker in the Argentina game. One he scored. He should have scored the other. Could have been a whole different story

I also remember him scoring a belter of a free kick against Holland - think it was at Wembley. I do agree he was a disappointment most of the time for England, but that's something I could also level at the likes of Chris Waddle (another skillful winger), Steven Gerrard (superb for club, not so much for country) and quite a few others.

[Marco4]

Apr 1, 2015 13:02:22 GMT 1 ACW said:

Apr 1, 2015 9:51:40 GMT 1 htfcfcfc said:

From memory he whipped a couple of decent ball in for Lineker in the Argentina game. One he scored. He should have scored the other. Could have been a whole different story

I also remember him scoring a belter of a free kick against Holland - think it was at Wembley. I do agree he was a disappointment most of the time for England, but that's something I could also level at the likes of Chris Waddle (another skillful winger), Steven Gerrard (superb for club, not so much for country) and quite a few others.

If you watch a Chris Waddle highlight reel from his time at Marseille, he was amazing. Don't remember him too well at Spurs, but he seems fairly under-rated in England according to his reputation in France.

He seems to sound more and more like Sir Bobby Robson with every passing year, too, which is simultaneously quite nice and quite poignant.

[showaddywaddywaddy]

Would argue Waddle was generally appreciated in England as a club player especially later in his career at Sheff Weds. Another that didnt deliver for England but how many wingers did really? Id have more time for Barnes's managerial efforts if he went and coached down the leagues, he was billy big time taking the Celtic job and it was far too much for him, then he went to Tranmere no doubt arrogantly thinking he'd be better at a smaller club and lo and behold he showed he was inept. Better rapper than manager.

[ACW]

Apr 1, 2015 13:15:42 GMT 1 Marco4 said:

Apr 1, 2015 13:02:22 GMT 1 ACW said:

I also remember him scoring a belter of a free kick against Holland - think it was at Wembley. I do agree he was a disappointment most of the time for England, but that's something I could also level at the likes of Chris Waddle (another skillful winger), Steven Gerrard (superb for club, not so much for country) and quite a few others.

If you watch a Chris Waddle highlight reel from his time at Marseille, he was amazing. Don't remember him too well at Spurs, but he seems fairly under-rated in England according to his reputation in France.

He seems to sound more and more like Sir Bobby Robson with every passing year, too, which is simultaneously quite nice and quite poignant.

He was superb at Marseille - didn't he play in that famous European Cup final when Marseille lost on penalties to a Red Star Belgrade side that barely crossed the half-way line? I always liked him - a technically gifted played who was capable of winning a game on his own. Sadly, like alot of players he didn't quite replicate his club form for England and will always be remembered for his penalty miss at Italia '90. Shame, because he was a great player.

[Marco4]

Apr 1, 2015 14:11:50 GMT 1 showaddywaddywaddy said:

Would argue Waddle was generally appreciated in England as a club player especially later in his career at Sheff Weds. Another that didnt deliver for England but how many wingers did really? Id have more time for Barnes's managerial efforts if he went and coached down the leagues, he was billy big time taking the Celtic job and it was far too much for him, then he went to Tranmere no doubt arrogantly thinking he'd be better at a smaller club and lo and behold he showed he was inept. Better rapper than manager.

That's saying something, because he crap at that.

See where you're coming from with Waddle, but he was a different player at Wednesday to Marseille, still hugely skilful, but had waned a little (there's an argument to be made that in a better team, in a weaker league, he would always shine, and I would accept that)

[impact]

Chris Powell is our manager, not because he's black but because our chairman thought he was the right man for the job.

John Barnes isn't because he's shit.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

My observations (for what they are worth, which is next to feck all)

[/font][li]I've never really liked Liverpool, but he was immense for a good 5 year period in the late 80s, early 90s[/li]
[li]he is (rightly) revered by other black players who have beein in the game since, as he was the highest profile black player of the era and was subjected to immense, disgusting, abuse - often by his own team's/country's fans[/li]
[li]there is an argument that England were not set up to utislise flair wingers, which possible explains Waddle's mediocrity for England too[/li]
[li]as a manager, records show his first ten games for Celtic were better than any other since Jock Stein[/li]
[li]clearly, he's not been a managerial success, but the argument is that in neither club role was he afforded the time or support he feels he would have been given if he were a white manager with a similar playing history. It's an impossible argument to agree or disagree with, as the only people who know if his colour was a factor (consciously or not) are those that hired and fired him[/li]

unless you are a member of any minority, dismissing the argument can be a knee-jerk reaction, and is incredibly easy to do - there is undoibtedly an issue about raace being a barrier in leadership positions in football, and John Barnes (due to his experiences as a player) more than most may have cause for feeling like it's affected his career. This issue means that in 2015 there are just 6 non-white managers from 92 in the league, yet there are several former players who could argue tehy deserve a go. Roy Keane is regularly linked with roles, yet Paul Ince isn't, and they have similar pedigrees both on and off the pitch. why do former players who were natural leaders on the pitch like Ledley King not end up staying in football, and clubs feel that odious cretins like Steve Evans(Rotherham), former Italian players of no real note who have only managed for 7 games before getting the sack (Orient) or virtually unknown former non-league players like Jimmy Dack (?!) are a safer bet?[/ul]

[Deleted]

The manager game is an old boys club.doesn't matter how shit you are you can walk straight into another job.its hard enough if your white

[Mr Breitside]

Martin Samuel did a great article in the mail on this claim by Barnes.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3020499/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Poor-results-did-John-Barnes-not-racism.html

He highlights how Barnes Assistant at tranmere, Jason macateer, has likewise not had a job in football since.. Nothing to do with his color either. He also highlights that most of the managers sacked by tranmere have not got other management jobs.

It's time ex black players stopped claiming racism instead of looking at their own failings. Ince, curle, Barnes etc have all had chances, in some cases probably more than they deserved.