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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Aug 30, 2015 0:22:28 GMT 1
I don't see how anyone can think bringing lolley and carayol on were in any way negative moves... I was a bit gutted to see scanz come off but those two lads added flair pace and excitement These two need to be on from the start in the next game. Lolley is versatile enough to play as the second striker alongside or just behind Wells and Butterfield has shown in the past that he's capable of doing the defensive stuff as well as the creative side. Team for me next game would be Murphy New right back/anybody but Smith, Cranie/Hudson/new CB, Lynch, Davidson, Scannell, Butterfield, Hogg/Whitehead, Carayol Lolley, Wells Of course I realise that this will be far too adventurous for Mr Cautious but if we are to start winning games then we need to play more in the opponents half and have more options when in or around their box.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 30, 2015 0:36:26 GMT 1
I don't see how anyone can think bringing lolley and carayol on were in any way negative moves... I was a bit gutted to see scanz come off but those two lads added flair pace and excitement It meant that Miller was left up front on his own we went 4-2-3-1 once Wells and Scanz removed, i think what people are perhaps peeved about is he took the wrong players off. Why not take one of our holding mids off ? preferably Whitehead who is simply not mobile enough to play this role, and cant be included simply because of his organizing abilities and experience. is one formation necessarily more defensive than another ? And do you take no heed of how the substituted player was playing ( wells was having a mare ) and what's at the disposal of the manager on the bench ? Are people saying when lolley and carayol came on town went more defensive/shut up shot for a point ? Cos if so that's bonkers
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COWSHEDPHIL
Andy Booth Terrier
Everybody In The Centre Circle!
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Post by COWSHEDPHIL on Aug 30, 2015 9:30:46 GMT 1
Hoyle's not picked one manager yet that has proven to be successful IMO.
Clark nearly was, and I'd have liked to have seen where we could have gone if we'd won the old Trafford playoff final.
Powell was a truly shocking appointment.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Aug 30, 2015 9:35:42 GMT 1
Hoyle's not picked one manager yet that has proven to be successful IMO. Clark nearly was, and I'd have liked to have seen where we could have gone if we'd won the old Trafford playoff final. Powell was a truly shocking appointment. Some great times under Clarky, I've given CP benefit of doubt but this is getting worrying now, he's defensive but we can't even defend points. Can't see anything but relegation scrap now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 9:37:29 GMT 1
Grayson: Already bad a good reputation of getting teams promoted and established in the championship (which is exactly what we needed). Even had Leeds chasing promotion, when he was sacked. Went on to gain a further two promotions. Left us 16th in the championship in our first season.
Robins: Had a reputation of successfully managing teams with tight budgets.
Powell: Working with the one of the tightest budgets in the division, but still lead the team to 16th last season. Their highest finish for 15 years.
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Post by Captainslapper on Aug 30, 2015 9:42:53 GMT 1
Hoyle's not picked one manager yet that has proven to be successful IMO. Clark nearly was, and I'd have liked to have seen where we could have gone if we'd won the old Trafford playoff final. Powell was a truly shocking appointment. Grayson- appointed to get Town up out of league 1--- successful Robins- appointed to stop the decline under Grayson and keep Town up----successful Powell- appointed to work within tight budgets but still progress up the league- successful Clarks the only one who didn't achieve his main target!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 9:43:55 GMT 1
I've said this before, but the managers people wanted have gone on to do worse than the managers we've appointed, but getting this through to people is like getting blood from a stone.
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COWSHEDPHIL
Andy Booth Terrier
Everybody In The Centre Circle!
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Post by COWSHEDPHIL on Aug 30, 2015 9:49:25 GMT 1
Hoyle's not picked one manager yet that has proven to be successful IMO. Clark nearly was, and I'd have liked to have seen where we could have gone if we'd won the old Trafford playoff final. Powell was a truly shocking appointment. Grayson- appointed to get Town up out of league 1--- successful Robins- appointed to stop the decline under Grayson and keep Town up----successful Powell- appointed to work within tight budgets but still progress up the league- successful Clarks the only one who didn't achieve his main target!! That's why I said he NEARLY was ? If we had have got up with CLark the feel good factor of the Hoyle era would have still been in full swing and we could have gone on to bigger and better things. We were already in the play offs when Grayson was appointed. Hardly did anything. Got lucky winning the shoot out. Got sacked after 6 months in the championship for being shit. Costing us thousands of pounds in compo. Robins - useless - weak man who couldn't motivate. Powell - average beyond words and plays negative out defer tactics with 5 attackers on the bench in home games.
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Post by haveitback on Aug 30, 2015 9:57:12 GMT 1
Just out of interest how many would take LC back? We played some of the best attacking football i have seen under him which is something people are asking for now, Having said that i am not asking for CP to go but if DH said to LC right this is the group of players you have no more outgoings after say JV & Poss JB have gone. And the only budget you have is for one striker would you take him back, Bearing in mind he signed Jordan Rhodes, Benik Afobe Granted he signed some dross aswell but he did have a eye for a player, I think he would have a field day with this squad and get them attacking, It is a hard one with CP though because i think he does care and wants it to turn around but is scared to go for it and that is costing us, Who knows if he will stay or go come the end of the season, We may end up back in league one, Only DH knows what he will do, I suspect he will stick with CP even at the expense of dropping back into league one.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 10:16:45 GMT 1
Just out of interest how many would take LC back? We played some of the best attacking football i have seen under him which is something people are asking for now, Having said that i am not asking for CP to go but if DH said to LC right this is the group of players you have no more outgoings after say JV & Poss JB have gone. And the only budget you have is for one striker would you take him back, Bearing in mind he signed Jordan Rhodes, Benik Afobe Granted he signed some dross aswell but he did have a eye for a player, I think he would have a field day with this squad and get them attacking, It is a hard one with CP though because i think he does care and wants it to turn around but is scared to go for it and that is costing us, Who knows if he will stay or go come the end of the season, We may end up back in league one, Only DH knows what he will do, I suspect he will stick with CP even at the expense of dropping back into league one. Clark was the worste out of the 4. Most people agree with this, as its been done to death. He FAILED to meet his objective not just once. Everyone appointed since has NOT FAILED. Clark showed since at Birmingham and even Blackpool that he isn't very good. He now finds himself out of work, whilst two of the managers appointed since are championship managers and one is doi g a pretty good job in league 1.
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Aug 30, 2015 10:16:58 GMT 1
I've said this before, but the managers people wanted have gone on to do worse than the managers we've appointed, but getting this through to people is like getting blood from a stone. Yes!!
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Post by dugnet on Aug 30, 2015 10:24:52 GMT 1
Generally speaking there seems to be a lack of managers who are great motivators and people managers. The championship is littered with teams who play the same way and in reality it is the extra bit of quality they can afford that generally separates them.
I don't think we currently have poor players, not league winners but also not relegation fodder, but at the moment they play somewhere between a regimented defensive formation and a team lacking confidence, belief and character to really impose themselves and win games.
I'll give you a perfect example yesterday;
Before QPR scored we had a break when Scanz broke and all he had in the middle was Nahki and Miller marked by 6 defending players. The next nearest player was barely over the half way line. It was criminal. The support we offer the front two is appalling at times and is quite frankly not good enough.
We have certainly have had the opportunity to get more points from every league game this season but haven't been both confident or ruthless enough to take advantage. I do think we need more quality but I also think with what we have we should show more and be better than we currently are. This is down to Powell and his coaches.
Since we've been promoted, bar the odd performance, it has largely been a battle to survive. I have posted many times that this outlook holds us back. We need some confidence and belief we can go out and win games. Look at Fulham last week, had we really had the character to kill the game off we could have won comfortably. The truth is that despite the cash and individual quality other teams have there will be many games like this.
I like Powell, he is a thoroughly likeable bloke but is he that inspirational forward thinking manager who can recognise the huge amount of grey that exists in the Championship and rise above it, even just a little bit?
As usual there will be those who look to the positives on here and those who will wallow in the gloom and as ever the truth is somewhere in the middle. For me with a bit more bravery, belief and determination we could easily be 5 points better off now and for that failure I hold CP responsible. He needs more belief and a more balanced formation to get the best out of our players. The players need to believe and respond and give each other confidence...but it all comes from the manager.
Over the next 2 1/2 days players will leave and arrive, then we will reliant on CP to build a team that wins games. If he can great, if not we are into another battle to survive. The implications of such a battle are that supporters will continue to drift away and we will inevitably fall back into League 1.
Hopefully CP gets it right, do I think he will? In honesty...probably not. I'd be genuinely delighted to be proved wrong.
UTT
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Post by haveitback on Aug 30, 2015 10:27:10 GMT 1
Just out of interest how many would take LC back? We played some of the best attacking football i have seen under him which is something people are asking for now, Having said that i am not asking for CP to go but if DH said to LC right this is the group of players you have no more outgoings after say JV & Poss JB have gone. And the only budget you have is for one striker would you take him back, Bearing in mind he signed Jordan Rhodes, Benik Afobe Granted he signed some dross aswell but he did have a eye for a player, I think he would have a field day with this squad and get them attacking, It is a hard one with CP though because i think he does care and wants it to turn around but is scared to go for it and that is costing us, Who knows if he will stay or go come the end of the season, We may end up back in league one, Only DH knows what he will do, I suspect he will stick with CP even at the expense of dropping back into league one. Clark was the worste out of the 4. Most people agree with this, as its been done to death. He FAILED to meet his objective not just once. Everyone appointed since has NOT FAILED. Clark showed since at Birmingham and even Blackpool that he isn't very good. He now finds himself out of work, whilst two of the managers appointed since are championship managers and one is doi g a pretty good job in league 1. I take your point and i am not saying you are wrong, But LC hands were very much tied at both Birmingham and Blackppol and although he had decent players at both clubs the off field affairs at both clubs both impacted the capability of the Manager and that of the players which was understandable. I don't think LC is a bad manager though, I think the pressure got to him towards the end of his time at Town but he still kick started the momentum of Town and re engaged alot of fans with the attcking style of football he brought to the club. Not saying we should go over old ground, As you said been done to death, But to say he was worse than Robins, Nar not having that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 10:33:53 GMT 1
Clark was the worste out of the 4. Most people agree with this, as its been done to death. He FAILED to meet his objective not just once. Everyone appointed since has NOT FAILED. Clark showed since at Birmingham and even Blackpool that he isn't very good. He now finds himself out of work, whilst two of the managers appointed since are championship managers and one is doi g a pretty good job in league 1. I take your point and i am not saying you are wrong, But LC hands were very much tied at both Birmingham and Blackppol and although he had decent players at both clubs the off field affairs at both clubs both impacted the capability of the Manager and that of the players which was understandable. I don't think LC is a bad manager though, I think the pressure got to him towards the end of his time at Town but he still kick started the momentum of Town and re engaged alot of fans with the attcking style of football he brought to the club. Not saying we should go over old ground, As you said been done to death, But to say he was worse than Robins, Nar not having that. Birmingham had just finished 4th. They improved substantially after he left, with the same off field problems. The opinion of alot of Blackpool fans was that they should have stuck with the Belgian guy, Clark replaced as he had just signed a load of players after starting the season with just 8 and they started to improve (probably would still have gone down, mind) and Clark came in and didn't play them. As for Robuns, I Think he is a better manager. His hands have been tied at every club he's been at. Coventry and Scunthorpe were 24th when he took over. Rotherham had a 12 point deduction and he almost got them into the playoffs. Now that's working with your hands tied.
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Post by haveitback on Aug 30, 2015 10:38:35 GMT 1
I take your point and i am not saying you are wrong, But LC hands were very much tied at both Birmingham and Blackppol and although he had decent players at both clubs the off field affairs at both clubs both impacted the capability of the Manager and that of the players which was understandable. I don't think LC is a bad manager though, I think the pressure got to him towards the end of his time at Town but he still kick started the momentum of Town and re engaged alot of fans with the attcking style of football he brought to the club. Not saying we should go over old ground, As you said been done to death, But to say he was worse than Robins, Nar not having that. Birmingham had just finished 4th. They improved substantially after he left, with the same off field problems. The opinion of alot of Blackpool fans was that they should have stuck with the Belgian guy, Clark replaced as he had just signed a load of players after starting the season with just 8 and they started to improve (probably would still have gone down, mind) and Clark came in and didn't play them. As for Robuns, I Think he is a better manager. His hands have been tied at every club he's been at. Coventry and Scunthorpe were 24th when he took over. Rotherham had a 12 point deduction and he almost got them into the playoffs. Now that's working with your hands tied. Yep fair point ref Birmingham and yes they are doing better again this season still with the off field isssues granted but we will have to agree to disagree about Robins though.
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Post by galphamer74 on Aug 30, 2015 10:42:17 GMT 1
The fact is the way we are playing at the moment is pretty much guaranteeing that we won't achieve anything this season. We are simply not good enough to keep clean sheets on a consistent basis in this league, all Powell's tactics have achieved is to nullify our attacking threat (3 goals in 5 games). All I'm saying is that we have employed a succession of cautious managers who worry too much about the opposition rather than try and assert their style of play on the other team. Small clubs can & have done well in this division but only with managers who have a belief in how they play, and a will to impose that style of play on the opposition. It just seems that from the chairman down the ultimate ambition is to simply survive in this league. Unfortunately with that mentality there's only one place I can see us going.
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Yuta be a terrier
Andy Booth Terrier
That Gary Taylor fletcher will never make a footballer.....
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Aug 30, 2015 10:43:18 GMT 1
I know Birmingham are referenced in relation to Clark but for those defending Powell and the restrictions he has with money and players take a look at Birmingham now. Very similar to us Rowett came in after Powell, turned the performances around and they have continued to progress despite not having much (any) money. Powell is failing and the ship is sinking fast. A change is needed and also a different type of manager, the negative approach is killing us.
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Post by dewsburyterrier on Aug 30, 2015 13:43:01 GMT 1
Jimmy Floyd Hasseilbank -excuse spelling- was the one for me. More inspiring, more ambitious.
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