alex
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:14]
Posts: 1,641
|
Post by alex on Sept 1, 2015 10:54:30 GMT 1
Lots of abuse on the board, no need for it. We survive by being a selling club, always have always will. Stop acting so surprised. We will stay up, maybe by the skin of our teeth but we will.
I wish we were a massive club buying players who are world class, however it is what it is, and we are who we are.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 11:10:31 GMT 1
Miracle if we stay up with the players we have and the management too
|
|
|
Post by kennyk2 on Sept 1, 2015 11:10:19 GMT 1
I'm also expecting plenty of neurosis today on this board
|
|
|
Post by SN0W on Sept 1, 2015 11:10:22 GMT 1
Lots of abuse on the board, no need for it. We survive by being a selling club, always have always will. Stop acting so surprised. We will stay up, maybe by the skin of our teeth but we will. I wish we were a massive club buying players who are world class, however it is what it is, and we are who we are. Not sure that it has ever been as severe as this. How do you build a decent sandcastle if the tide keeps coming in and out so fast?
|
|
|
Post by kennyk2 on Sept 1, 2015 11:10:51 GMT 1
Miracle if we stay up with the players we have and the management too ... and as if by magic
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Sept 1, 2015 11:12:33 GMT 1
I think we all accept this but it is the players we bring in and the overall strategy that concerns people. We haven't had a great start and will look to lose our best player, potentially a player who hasn't been given much of a chance but could be very good and our striker who, when fit, is more than good enough at this level.
I can understand the big money offer for Butts, but seriously concerned about how we fill that gap. Vaughan I also understand due to his injury record. Lolley, if he leaves, must be retained on our books. I know he has had injuries but he offers so much, perhaps the loan will work.
Where I think people are getting grumpy is that the law of diminishing returns says that we can't keep selling our better players and replacing them with cheaper (note cheaper rather than poorer) options and hope to build a competitive team. We have no successful youth policy and we are trading to survive at this level and that is a stark reality. That reality is however very hard to get enthusiastic about when the football is inconsistent and results even more so.
There is no place for abuse though - it is only opinions and people are entitled to them.
Here's hoping we drop lucky again with our incomings.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 11:13:45 GMT 1
Miracle if we stay up with the players we have and the management too ... and as if by magic To be fair I said that before the start of the season and before Smithies was sold (possibly Butts too) Unlike some who are throwing their toys out of the pram I can understand why we're accepting 5mil for Butts, doubt we'd ever get that much again for him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 11:16:32 GMT 1
We know who we are, where we are, why we are here. Listen at every home game tho. Apart from the NSL / south stand lot, there seems to be this atmosphere / sense of defeatism. We moan about moaning. How long is it since we have had the chance to cheer something on? or is it just that town fans in general as miserable feckers?
|
|
cheesyhtfc
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,642
|
Post by cheesyhtfc on Sept 1, 2015 11:25:38 GMT 1
I just wish everyone would wait and see how it all pans out instead of descending into fits of panic and hysteria whenever some sniff of a rumour materialises. Sure, we might go down and if we do, then people will be completely justified to complain and be annoyed about what has happened. But on past evidence (i.e. Town improving their league position every year for the last 7 years or so) is that our recruitment strategy hasn't been that bad and that we may be ok this year. In fact, get the signings right and we could surprise a few people.
The point is, none of us really knows 1) who is going to come in or leave or 2) how that will affect the team over the season until it has happened. So we may as well sit back and see what happens.
As for the attitude of fans, if you go to a comedy gig expecting to laugh, then you will irrespective of the jokes that are told. People will get out of entertainment what they want to. If you watch a Town game "as a neutral", you will tend to be entertained and see Town as a decent enough side. If you expect to be disappointed by the performance then you will be 9/10 times.
I expect that we have a long term strategy of remaining around lower mid-table as teams spend way beyond their means trying to get into the PL and waiting for the bubble to burst. Too many people want instant results. FFP is only a year old, it is ridiculous to condemn it without giving it a few years. If teams gamble on promotion, don't get it, and are then hit with transfer embargos and fines, then the teams will be 1) unable to strengthen and 2) risking administration and liquidation if they don't balance the books. We won't see if this is the case for another 5 years at least.
Patience is a virtue. In any event, it's only football - in the big scheme of things, it isn't that important...
|
|
|
Post by 3Pipe on Sept 1, 2015 11:38:51 GMT 1
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 11:39:45 GMT 1
I just wish everyone would wait and see how it all pans out instead of descending into fits of panic and hysteria whenever some sniff of a rumour materialises. Sure, we might go down and if we do, then people will be completely justified to complain and be annoyed about what has happened. But on past evidence (i.e. Town improving their league position every year for the last 7 years or so) is that our recruitment strategy hasn't been that bad and that we may be ok this year. In fact, get the signings right and we could surprise a few people. The point is, none of us really knows 1) who is going to come in or leave or 2) how that will affect the team over the season until it has happened. So we may as well sit back and see what happens. As for the attitude of fans, if you go to a comedy gig expecting to laugh, then you will irrespective of the jokes that are told. People will get out of entertainment what they want to. If you watch a Town game "as a neutral", you will tend to be entertained and see Town as a decent enough side. If you expect to be disappointed by the performance then you will be 9/10 times. I expect that we have a long term strategy of remaining around lower mid-table as teams spend way beyond their means trying to get into the PL and waiting for the bubble to burst. Too many people want instant results. FFP is only a year old, it is ridiculous to condemn it without giving it a few years. If teams gamble on promotion, don't get it, and are then hit with transfer embargos and fines, then the teams will be 1) unable to strengthen and 2) risking administration and liquidation if they don't balance the books. We won't see if this is the case for another 5 years at least. Patience is a virtue. In any event, it's only football - in the big scheme of things, it isn't that important...
All well and good, But we are in a vicious circle, Crowds are down, We sell players, Ground admission goes up, Crowds go down, We sell players,
At some point you have to entice those who no longer come down to return, Otherwise, Crowds go down etc etc.
By your reckoning we will still be a championship club when FFP hits and affects all and sundry with transfer embargos, And Town will be able to sign who we want and eventually grace the top flight, Its a dream pal, We wont have much money to sign many players when our income/spending power is taken from the 7000 hardy souls who continue to go regularly.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 1, 2015 11:46:31 GMT 1
I just wish everyone would wait and see how it all pans out instead of descending into fits of panic and hysteria whenever some sniff of a rumour materialises. Sure, we might go down and if we do, then people will be completely justified to complain and be annoyed about what has happened. But on past evidence (i.e. Town improving their league position every year for the last 7 years or so) is that our recruitment strategy hasn't been that bad and that we may be ok this year. In fact, get the signings right and we could surprise a few people. The point is, none of us really knows 1) who is going to come in or leave or 2) how that will affect the team over the season until it has happened. So we may as well sit back and see what happens. As for the attitude of fans, if you go to a comedy gig expecting to laugh, then you will irrespective of the jokes that are told. People will get out of entertainment what they want to. If you watch a Town game "as a neutral", you will tend to be entertained and see Town as a decent enough side. If you expect to be disappointed by the performance then you will be 9/10 times. I expect that we have a long term strategy of remaining around lower mid-table as teams spend way beyond their means trying to get into the PL and waiting for the bubble to burst. Too many people want instant results. FFP is only a year old, it is ridiculous to condemn it without giving it a few years. If teams gamble on promotion, don't get it, and are then hit with transfer embargos and fines, then the teams will be 1) unable to strengthen and 2) risking administration and liquidation if they don't balance the books. We won't see if this is the case for another 5 years at least. Patience is a virtue. In any event, it's only football - in the big scheme of things, it isn't that important...
All well and good, But we are in a vicious circle, Crowds are down, We sell players, Ground admission goes up, Crowds go down, We sell players,
At some point you have to entice those who no longer come down to return, Otherwise, Crowds go down etc etc.
By your reckoning we will still be a championship club when FFP hits and affects all and sundry with transfer embargos, And Town will be able to sign who we want and eventually grace the top flight, Its a dream pal, We wont have much money to sign many players when our income/spending power is taken from the 7000 hardy souls who continue to go regularly.
as the above.. we seem to be forgetting that we have football matches to play after this excitement of getting money in dies down.. watching dean get the debt down is not a spectator sport or a great incentive to advertise or promote huddersfield town..
|
|
cheesyhtfc
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,642
|
Post by cheesyhtfc on Sept 1, 2015 11:56:16 GMT 1
I get the feeling that people expected us to get promoted from League 1 and within 3-4 years be challenging at the top of the Championship? That is not workable for a club of our side and would be a huge gamble. Last time we gambled like that, we nearly went bust.
The only way it makes sense for this club to operate is on the basis that we have 8,000-9,000 fans who will attend whatever, and any more is a bonus.
Perhaps it would even be better for the club (if fans want exciting football and winning football) to be in League 1 challenging at the top every season. Because that will not happen in the Championship for a good number of years at least, unless we get very lucky.
The Championship bubble will burst, maybe in five years, maybe in ten, and the job for Town is to ensure that we are one of the clubs that can emerge as a leader from the wreckage.
It's about being realistic with expectations and understanding that we are a mid-low table Championship club who will lose/draw more than we win. We can either be that or a good League 1 club, winning most games. But even that wasn't enough for most people when we were in exactly that position.
If people expect us to be a top Championship club now, then they will be disappointed. By all means, have hope that we could be, but don't expect something that we won't see for a while (unless we get lucky), because that is almost masochistic.
|
|
|
Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Sept 1, 2015 11:59:22 GMT 1
I get the feeling that people expected us to get promoted from League 1 and within 3-4 years be challenging at the top of the Championship? That is not workable for a club of our side and would be a huge gamble. Last time we gambled like that, we nearly went bust. The only way it makes sense for this club to operate is on the basis that we have 8,000-9,000 fans who will attend whatever, and any more is a bonus. Perhaps it would even be better for the club (if fans want exciting football and winning football) to be in League 1 challenging at the top every season. Because that will not happen in the Championship for a good number of years at least, unless we get very lucky. The Championship bubble will burst, maybe in five years, maybe in ten, and the job for Town is to ensure that we are one of the clubs that can emerge as a leader from the wreckage. It's about being realistic with expectations and understanding that we are a mid-low table Championship club who will lose/draw more than we win. We can either be that or a good League 1 club, winning most games. But even that wasn't enough for most people when we were in exactly that position. If people expect us to be a top Championship club now, then they will be disappointed. By all means, have hope that we could be, but don't expect something that we won't see for a while (unless we get lucky), because that is almost masochistic.
A sensible well thought out post on here!?!?
Get the pitchforks!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Sept 1, 2015 12:10:53 GMT 1
I get the feeling that people expected us to get promoted from League 1 and within 3-4 years be challenging at the top of the Championship? That is not workable for a club of our side and would be a huge gamble. Last time we gambled like that, we nearly went bust. The only way it makes sense for this club to operate is on the basis that we have 8,000-9,000 fans who will attend whatever, and any more is a bonus. Perhaps it would even be better for the club (if fans want exciting football and winning football) to be in League 1 challenging at the top every season. Because that will not happen in the Championship for a good number of years at least, unless we get very lucky. The Championship bubble will burst, maybe in five years, maybe in ten, and the job for Town is to ensure that we are one of the clubs that can emerge as a leader from the wreckage. It's about being realistic with expectations and understanding that we are a mid-low table Championship club who will lose/draw more than we win. We can either be that or a good League 1 club, winning most games. But even that wasn't enough for most people when we were in exactly that position. If people expect us to be a top Championship club now, then they will be disappointed. By all means, have hope that we could be, but don't expect something that we won't see for a while (unless we get lucky), because that is almost masochistic. You make some good points but... I didn't expect us to be at the top of the Championship and always understood we had to sell to progress. I do however think that our policy of buying low and selling high may have worked very well from a revenue generation point of view (which is essential) what it hasn't done is enable us to build a team to compete and comfortably survive at this level. Continually changing your players has a negative effect of creating a spirit and culture within the team. I also wouldn't be so sure that the Championship bubble will burst any time soon. Until the riches cease to be available in the Premiership there will be continual clamour to reach that holy grail. Sadly we do not have the resources to chase that dream. With the academy not producing players at the level we require we really are reliant on very shrewd management, excellent recruitment and, something we aren't blessed with, a good dollop of luck. I think when yo throw in the mix that our current manager, super bloke that he is, is not convincing many his current tactics and strategy are likely to deliver results. I know many will debate whether the football is progressing/any better year on year but to my eyes we could be better than we actually are (as we did see performances that supported that view on occasion last season) and we don't get the bes of the players we do have. To be fair to the manager selling players can't help to build anything and make things harder. There will be those who will ask "should the manager get more funds?" and that for me is also a very fair question. I agree we have to wait and see what happens and how the team develops but based on where we are at half way through deadline day you can't blame people for being less than enthusiastic at the moment. I very much hope for progression but for me it gets harder and harder and there is a sad inevitability about how far we can go at the moment. Sorry just being realistic and honest. Would love to be proved completely wrong and we see a better team emerge in the next few weeks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 12:19:24 GMT 1
Lots of abuse on the board, no need for it. We survive by being a selling club, always have always will. Stop acting so surprised. We will stay up, maybe by the skin of our teeth but we will. I wish we were a massive club buying players who are world class, however it is what it is, and we are who we are. The first part of your post is exactly why I rarely post anymore almost to the point where I only use the PM system to say anything. The thread on Saturday aimed at me is almost the straw that broke the camels back. I read the debate and all the transfer stuff but I spend a lot of my time shaking my head. Such a shame.
|
|
|
Post by ValleyBlue on Sept 1, 2015 12:21:04 GMT 1
If we refuse to build a team around good players how can any progress be made?
|
|
|
Post by wtd on Sept 1, 2015 12:24:57 GMT 1
I just wish everyone would wait and see how it all pans out instead of descending into fits of panic and hysteria whenever some sniff of a rumour materialises. Sure, we might go down and if we do, then people will be completely justified to complain and be annoyed about what has happened. But on past evidence (i.e. Town improving their league position every year for the last 7 years or so) is that our recruitment strategy hasn't been that bad and that we may be ok this year. In fact, get the signings right and we could surprise a few people. The point is, none of us really knows 1) who is going to come in or leave or 2) how that will affect the team over the season until it has happened. So we may as well sit back and see what happens. As for the attitude of fans, if you go to a comedy gig expecting to laugh, then you will irrespective of the jokes that are told. People will get out of entertainment what they want to. If you watch a Town game "as a neutral", you will tend to be entertained and see Town as a decent enough side. If you expect to be disappointed by the performance then you will be 9/10 times. I expect that we have a long term strategy of remaining around lower mid-table as teams spend way beyond their means trying to get into the PL and waiting for the bubble to burst. Too many people want instant results. FFP is only a year old, it is ridiculous to condemn it without giving it a few years. If teams gamble on promotion, don't get it, and are then hit with transfer embargos and fines, then the teams will be 1) unable to strengthen and 2) risking administration and liquidation if they don't balance the books. We won't see if this is the case for another 5 years at least. Patience is a virtue. In any event, it's only football - in the big scheme of things, it isn't that important... Halle-bloody-lujah!
|
|
cheesyhtfc
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,642
|
Post by cheesyhtfc on Sept 1, 2015 12:26:20 GMT 1
I don't blame anybody for being less enthusiastic, even though the (admittedly few) games I've seen over the last two years have actually been good performances (including the last two games). However, teams like us that don't have much money generally have to make a choice between playing expansive and attractive football or solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football. We cannot be solid and play attractive, expansive football because we don't have the players for it, and don't have the money to buy the sort of players we need for it (i.e. wingers and CMs that can both attack and defend).
Looking at the majority of my 15 years supporting Town, the majority of teams in our position that try and play expansive, attractive football tend to yo-yo between the Championship and League 1, whereas teams that play solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football tend to stay in lower-mid table of the Championship.
As Mourinho said when he first took over at Chelsea, "it doesn't matter whether you win the game, but you cannot lose". If you steadily pick up points from draws and nick a few wins, you tend to be safe. If you go for it in every match, you will lose more than you win with the quality of players that we can attract.
We don't have the money to be an attacking force in this division. We have the ability to be a solid, unspectacular mid-table team for a number of years to wait and see if the bubble bursts. If it doesn't, then we may have to re-evaluate. However, we cannot throw money at it just because other teams are because that's not sustainable and not learning from prior mistakes. If the consequence of this is that we get relegated then so be it - I'd rather that than risk the mistakes of 99.
I think Town fans have to realistically evaluate what they want to see. Would they prefer fast, attractive football at the top of League 1, or solid, uninteresting counter-attacking football in mid-table Championship? Frankly, those are the two most realistic options for the next 4-5 years.
|
|
|
Post by shawsie on Sept 1, 2015 12:38:13 GMT 1
Am all for being positive and sensible regarding the football club.......but i am a little baffled right now. I dont understand a recruitment strategy that brings in a lad from man city who cost a third or so of our budget transferr fee wise, and inside 6 wks hes loaned out to a league 1 club when we are struggling to score goals. They must have known the vaughan situation months ago and if he wasnt going to feature then we needed a ready made replacement surely? Milleris inconsistent as we know and wells has been crying out for support ever since he joined! I dont understand how we can increase gates and revenue when the product is at times poor and our admission prices have rocketed against a backdrop of multi million pound departures and few notable incomings.......its not easy, but this club cant be self sustainable without more bums on seats and at present there are fewer than for several years. It must be disheartening for dean but there needs to be more done to re-engage the floaters and get folks back. Without it, we will just see the same selling of our better assets and there will come a time when we get it wrong and get dumped back into league 1. That would be a disaster and for all the good done by dean and his board, dare i say it wed be back to gates under the dying embers of the davy era and that makes me shudder.
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Sept 1, 2015 12:45:35 GMT 1
I don't blame anybody for being less enthusiastic, even though the (admittedly few) games I've seen over the last two years have actually been good performances (including the last two games). However, teams like us that don't have much money generally have to make a choice between playing expansive and attractive football or solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football. We cannot be solid and play attractive, expansive football because we don't have the players for it, and don't have the money to buy the sort of players we need for it (i.e. wingers and CMs that can both attack and defend). Looking at the majority of my 15 years supporting Town, the majority of teams in our position that try and play expansive, attractive football tend to yo-yo between the Championship and League 1, whereas teams that play solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football tend to stay in lower-mid table of the Championship. As Mourinho said when he first took over at Chelsea, "it doesn't matter whether you win the game, but you cannot lose". If you steadily pick up points from draws and nick a few wins, you tend to be safe. If you go for it in every match, you will lose more than you win with the quality of players that we can attract. We don't have the money to be an attacking force in this division. We have the ability to be a solid, unspectacular mid-table team for a number of years to wait and see if the bubble bursts. If it doesn't, then we may have to re-evaluate. However, we cannot throw money at it just because other teams are because that's not sustainable and not learning from prior mistakes. If the consequence of this is that we get relegated then so be it - I'd rather that than risk the mistakes of 99. I think Town fans have to realistically evaluate what they want to see. Would they prefer fast, attractive football at the top of League 1, or solid, uninteresting counter-attacking football in mid-table Championship? Frankly, those are the two most realistic options for the next 4-5 years. This is merely perpetuating the myth that "it's all hard and difficult at this level", to a large extent this is true, it is hard and difficult, but it isn't impossible. I posted after the QPR game the Championship, for all it's money, is very tight and could we rise above the grey that exists. Our players have shown on the odd occasion they can rise to the standard required but not enough. So aren't they good enough or are they lacking guidance and belief? You take your own stance on that but we seem to be using finance as an excuse for a lack of progress when we should perhaps be asking "can we be achieving more with what we have". Recruiting the right players in the right positions is key and as such we need to do this and get the best out of them.
|
|
|
Post by Floyds on Sept 1, 2015 12:48:35 GMT 1
I don't blame anybody for being less enthusiastic, even though the (admittedly few) games I've seen over the last two years have actually been good performances (including the last two games). However, teams like us that don't have much money generally have to make a choice between playing expansive and attractive football or solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football. We cannot be solid and play attractive, expansive football because we don't have the players for it, and don't have the money to buy the sort of players we need for it (i.e. wingers and CMs that can both attack and defend). Looking at the majority of my 15 years supporting Town, the majority of teams in our position that try and play expansive, attractive football tend to yo-yo between the Championship and League 1, whereas teams that play solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football tend to stay in lower-mid table of the Championship. As Mourinho said when he first took over at Chelsea, "it doesn't matter whether you win the game, but you cannot lose". If you steadily pick up points from draws and nick a few wins, you tend to be safe. If you go for it in every match, you will lose more than you win with the quality of players that we can attract. We don't have the money to be an attacking force in this division. We have the ability to be a solid, unspectacular mid-table team for a number of years to wait and see if the bubble bursts. If it doesn't, then we may have to re-evaluate. However, we cannot throw money at it just because other teams are because that's not sustainable and not learning from prior mistakes. If the consequence of this is that we get relegated then so be it - I'd rather that than risk the mistakes of 99. I think Town fans have to realistically evaluate what they want to see. Would they prefer fast, attractive football at the top of League 1, or solid, uninteresting counter-attacking football in mid-table Championship? Frankly, those are the two most realistic options for the next 4-5 years. This is all fine in theory, but what evidence have you to suggest we're capable of doing this? Zero wins all season. 3 wins in 23. And even if you include the good run before the 23 we still only get 52 points (I believe) if extrapolated over the season. We can't and won't stay up being as conservative as we are at home - one shot on target all game isn't good enough. I'd sacrifice one of the holding midfielders, which would at least be a start, before looking at how to get the best of our soon to be re-shaped squad.
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Sept 1, 2015 12:48:49 GMT 1
Am all for being positive and sensible regarding the football club.......but i am a little baffled right now. I dont understand a recruitment strategy that brings in a lad from man city who cost a third or so of our budget transferr fee wise, and inside 6 wks hes loaned out to a league 1 club when we are struggling to score goals. They must have known the vaughan situation months ago and if he wasnt going to feature then we needed a ready made replacement surely? Milleris inconsistent as we know and wells has been crying out for support ever since he joined! I dont understand how we can increase gates and revenue when the product is at times poor and our admission prices have rocketed against a backdrop of multi million pound departures and few notable incomings.......its not easy, but this club cant be self sustainable without more bums on seats and at present there are fewer than for several years. It must be disheartening for dean but there needs to be more done to re-engage the floaters and get folks back. Without it, we will just see the same selling of our better assets and there will come a time when we get it wrong and get dumped back into league 1. That would be a disaster and for all the good done by dean and his board, dare i say it wed be back to gates under the dying embers of the davy era and that makes me shudder. I agree and think our recruitment is baffling at the moment. I accept Butts will go and I also accept Vaughan will leave to but what are we looking to do? Keep recruiting wingers? Midfielders? Where are the strikers, what about right back and another centre half. As it stands we are in a muddle, in my opinion, and that's nothing t do with hard cash. All very disheartening to be honest and, if we do slip back to League 1, all a bit pointless.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 1, 2015 12:52:33 GMT 1
I just wish everyone would wait and see how it all pans out instead of descending into fits of panic and hysteria whenever some sniff of a rumour materialises. Sure, we might go down and if we do, then people will be completely justified to complain and be annoyed about what has happened. But on past evidence (i.e. Town improving their league position every year for the last 7 years or so) is that our recruitment strategy hasn't been that bad and that we may be ok this year. In fact, get the signings right and we could surprise a few people. The point is, none of us really knows 1) who is going to come in or leave or 2) how that will affect the team over the season until it has happened. So we may as well sit back and see what happens. As for the attitude of fans, if you go to a comedy gig expecting to laugh, then you will irrespective of the jokes that are told. People will get out of entertainment what they want to. If you watch a Town game "as a neutral", you will tend to be entertained and see Town as a decent enough side. If you expect to be disappointed by the performance then you will be 9/10 times. I expect that we have a long term strategy of remaining around lower mid-table as teams spend way beyond their means trying to get into the PL and waiting for the bubble to burst. Too many people want instant results. FFP is only a year old, it is ridiculous to condemn it without giving it a few years. If teams gamble on promotion, don't get it, and are then hit with transfer embargos and fines, then the teams will be 1) unable to strengthen and 2) risking administration and liquidation if they don't balance the books. We won't see if this is the case for another 5 years at least. Patience is a virtue. In any event, it's only football - in the big scheme of things, it isn't that important... Halle-bloody-lujah! its probably more important to supporters who struggled to find the season card money.. I guess me saying again that they are entitled only to a few set things for that money so ultimately they are getting their money's 'worth', does not help them much.. The support we have lost and continue to lose is being treated as collateral damage I fear.. Its a football club and a business.. I guess an accoutant would say 'if enough punters still buy season cards and shirts we can get away with it, for a while'...?? i think thats where we are..it has been worse and enough of us stayed before and enough 'came back', lets try it again..?
|
|
cheesyhtfc
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,642
|
Post by cheesyhtfc on Sept 1, 2015 13:00:09 GMT 1
I don't blame anybody for being less enthusiastic, even though the (admittedly few) games I've seen over the last two years have actually been good performances (including the last two games). However, teams like us that don't have much money generally have to make a choice between playing expansive and attractive football or solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football. We cannot be solid and play attractive, expansive football because we don't have the players for it, and don't have the money to buy the sort of players we need for it (i.e. wingers and CMs that can both attack and defend). Looking at the majority of my 15 years supporting Town, the majority of teams in our position that try and play expansive, attractive football tend to yo-yo between the Championship and League 1, whereas teams that play solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football tend to stay in lower-mid table of the Championship. As Mourinho said when he first took over at Chelsea, "it doesn't matter whether you win the game, but you cannot lose". If you steadily pick up points from draws and nick a few wins, you tend to be safe. If you go for it in every match, you will lose more than you win with the quality of players that we can attract. We don't have the money to be an attacking force in this division. We have the ability to be a solid, unspectacular mid-table team for a number of years to wait and see if the bubble bursts. If it doesn't, then we may have to re-evaluate. However, we cannot throw money at it just because other teams are because that's not sustainable and not learning from prior mistakes. If the consequence of this is that we get relegated then so be it - I'd rather that than risk the mistakes of 99. I think Town fans have to realistically evaluate what they want to see. Would they prefer fast, attractive football at the top of League 1, or solid, uninteresting counter-attacking football in mid-table Championship? Frankly, those are the two most realistic options for the next 4-5 years. This is merely perpetuating the myth that "it's all hard and difficult at this level", to a large extent this is true, it is hard and difficult, but it isn't impossible. I posted after the QPR game the Championship, for all it's money, is very tight and could we rise above the grey that exists. Our players have shown on the odd occasion they can rise to the standard required but not enough. So aren't they good enough or are they lacking guidance and belief? You take your own stance on that but we seem to be using finance as an excuse for a lack of progress when we should perhaps be asking "can we be achieving more with what we have". Recruiting the right players in the right positions is key and as such we need to do this and get the best out of them. I'm simply saying that our best bet in this division is to establish ourselves as a strong mid-table Championship side. By doing that, we give ourselves a platform from which we can aim to go higher. If we do that, then though it may not produce the most exciting football, we give ourselves a far greater chance of eventually getting up to the PL, even for a season, than we do if we throw money at it and try to run before we can walk. It is a strategy that has worked in the last few years to give us our highest position in 15 years, and has improved our position every year for 6/7 years. There is no reason to abandon it now, even if the football isn't as exciting as people want. At our current level, we cannot have our cake and eat it. recruiting the right players in the right positions is key, but we should not think we are anything that we aren't. In my lifetime (23 years), we have primarily been a League 1 side with a few years above. Had we consolidated in 1998/99 instead of going for it, we could well have become a Birmingham/West Brom/Swansea/Hull/Wigan/Blackburn/Fulham etc or any of the other many teams that have had their time in the PL since it was created who were at our level or below when we took a gamble. As it was, we gambled, failed, crippled ourselves and, in doing so, missed the biggest golden opportunity that there is ever going to be unless the PL and Championship bubble bursts. Trying to force success generally ends in failure, even if a few clubs have shown it to be otherwise, they are most definitely the exception
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 13:04:24 GMT 1
I get the feeling that people expected us to get promoted from League 1 and within 3-4 years be challenging at the top of the Championship? That is not workable for a club of our side and would be a huge gamble. Last time we gambled like that, we nearly went bust. The only way it makes sense for this club to operate is on the basis that we have 8,000-9,000 fans who will attend whatever, and any more is a bonus. Perhaps it would even be better for the club (if fans want exciting football and winning football) to be in League 1 challenging at the top every season. Because that will not happen in the Championship for a good number of years at least, unless we get very lucky. The Championship bubble will burst, maybe in five years, maybe in ten, and the job for Town is to ensure that we are one of the clubs that can emerge as a leader from the wreckage. It's about being realistic with expectations and understanding that we are a mid-low table Championship club who will lose/draw more than we win. We can either be that or a good League 1 club, winning most games. But even that wasn't enough for most people when we were in exactly that position. If people expect us to be a top Championship club now, then they will be disappointed. By all means, have hope that we could be, but don't expect something that we won't see for a while (unless we get lucky), because that is almost masochistic.
A sensible well thought out post on here!?!?
Get the pitchforks!!!!!!
Mostly, but the assumption that the Championship bubble will burst is pure guesswork and I think very, very unlikely to happen. The championship will be awash with money from clubs who get parachute payments from the prem. Not all these clubs bounce back straight away, therefor you can have say nine teams trading on parachute budgets at any given time, plus those other Championship teams who get rich benefactors who want to have a roll of the dice. The money in the prem is only going to get more obscene as each contract renewal is agreed.
|
|
|
Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Sept 1, 2015 13:04:58 GMT 1
#HtfcHysteriaDay
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Sept 1, 2015 13:05:58 GMT 1
I'm simply saying that our best bet in this division is to establish ourselves as a strong mid-table Championship side. By doing that, we give ourselves a platform from which we can aim to go higher. If we do that, then though it may not produce the most exciting football, we give ourselves a far greater chance of eventually getting up to the PL, even for a season, than we do if we throw money at it and try to run before we can walk. It is a strategy that has worked in the last few years to give us our highest position in 15 years, and has improved our position every year for 6/7 years. There is no reason to abandon it now, even if the football isn't as exciting as people want. At our current level, we cannot have our cake and eat it. recruiting the right players in the right positions is key, but we should not think we are anything that we aren't. In my lifetime (23 years), we have primarily been a League 1 side with a few years above. Had we consolidated in 1998/99 instead of going for it, we could well have become a Birmingham/West Brom/Swansea/Hull/Wigan/Blackburn/Fulham etc or any of the other many teams that have had their time in the PL since it was created who were at our level or below when we took a gamble. As it was, we gambled, failed, crippled ourselves and, in doing so, missed the biggest golden opportunity that there is ever going to be unless the PL and Championship bubble bursts. Trying to force success generally ends in failure, even if a few clubs have shown it to be otherwise, they are most definitely the exception I don't disagree at all but my point is money becomes an excuse for not being better than we are within our constraints. I firmly believe our mindset holds us back and that presents a challenge that we should be rising above. We currently seem to be obsessed with balancing the finances, and I understand that, by all means do so but don't let it hold us back.
|
|
cheesyhtfc
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,642
|
Post by cheesyhtfc on Sept 1, 2015 13:11:28 GMT 1
I don't blame anybody for being less enthusiastic, even though the (admittedly few) games I've seen over the last two years have actually been good performances (including the last two games). However, teams like us that don't have much money generally have to make a choice between playing expansive and attractive football or solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football. We cannot be solid and play attractive, expansive football because we don't have the players for it, and don't have the money to buy the sort of players we need for it (i.e. wingers and CMs that can both attack and defend). Looking at the majority of my 15 years supporting Town, the majority of teams in our position that try and play expansive, attractive football tend to yo-yo between the Championship and League 1, whereas teams that play solid, if uninteresting counter-attacking football tend to stay in lower-mid table of the Championship. As Mourinho said when he first took over at Chelsea, "it doesn't matter whether you win the game, but you cannot lose". If you steadily pick up points from draws and nick a few wins, you tend to be safe. If you go for it in every match, you will lose more than you win with the quality of players that we can attract. We don't have the money to be an attacking force in this division. We have the ability to be a solid, unspectacular mid-table team for a number of years to wait and see if the bubble bursts. If it doesn't, then we may have to re-evaluate. However, we cannot throw money at it just because other teams are because that's not sustainable and not learning from prior mistakes. If the consequence of this is that we get relegated then so be it - I'd rather that than risk the mistakes of 99. I think Town fans have to realistically evaluate what they want to see. Would they prefer fast, attractive football at the top of League 1, or solid, uninteresting counter-attacking football in mid-table Championship? Frankly, those are the two most realistic options for the next 4-5 years. This is all fine in theory, but what evidence have you to suggest we're capable of doing this? Zero wins all season. 3 wins in 23. And even if you include the good run before the 23 we still only get 52 points (I believe) if extrapolated over the season. We can't and won't stay up being as conservative as we are at home - one shot on target all game isn't good enough. I'd sacrifice one of the holding midfielders, which would at least be a start, before looking at how to get the best of our soon to be re-shaped squad. In spite of all that, we not only stayed up last year, we also achieved our highest position in 15 years. If we set ourselves up not to lose first and foremost, in the manner that we have done in the last four games, then 3/4 times we won't. If we can nick a few wins out of those(and we have been very close to doing so already), then we will be fine. I just don't see any reason for us to panic unless we are in the bottom three at Xmas - until then the team and tactics are still very embryonic. At the moment, looking beyond the stats, the signs are promising.
|
|
|
Post by Floyds on Sept 1, 2015 13:18:29 GMT 1
We did, and we played our better football at the end of the season when we were more adventurous. Obviously we can keep doing what we're doing and see where we are after 10 games, or 15, or by Christmas. I'd be a bit more proactive though and try to get at teams from the outset at home. Who knows - we might win a few games and attract more fans down, and then we won't be under such pressure in 12 months to sell x or y player. All conjecture, in any case.
|
|