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Post by Giggity on Oct 1, 2015 23:01:57 GMT 1
Always the danger with a loan. You rarely profit in the long-term.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 23:14:04 GMT 1
Slow & steady wins the race...
A few clubs take this route, build up a league below, get some consistency & then that stability serves them well in the madness of the PL when they finally make that last successful push. Not that long ago would you have heard such things as WBA, Stoke etc. being classed as PL regulars but there they are, plus a couple of others if I could be bothered to look at recent history.
Compare that with a few other one/two season wonders of this world such as Bradford & Leeds as very local examples (admittedly Leeds should have learned their lesson to stabilise but went chasing European glory when TV money started to go daft). To some degree these sort of clubs played boom or bust football, won the one decent hand of poker but thereafter have struggled to get anywhere near that level again because their business model was flawed or they took the money right out of the club as soon as they achieved their objective of milking the TV gravy train...
Unfortunately (tin hat time), I don't have accurate stats to back some of the above up other than the Ridsdale/Seth Johnson anecdote & the fancy Italian that Bradford signed.
The point being here, is that I'd rather we build a stable platform, get to a point where we've earned respect as a steady member of this division and be in a position to kick on with a degree of stability & without wishing to sound patronising, become a Stoke...
I imagine if you'd asked Leeds fans when they were in L1 a few yrs back, if they'd be happy in 3-5 yrs time to become a Stoke they'd have either punched you or collapsed laughing... Ask that same Q now & the sensible ones would snap your hands off...
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 1, 2015 23:47:02 GMT 1
Huws did a heck of a lot of high quality work alongside Whitehead throughout the game. In that system we are playing its difficult for him to burst forward and stand out otherwise all the balance of the team goes. I think his moves forward were well judged. I guess it was his first full game for a year so he is way short of full fitness for a midfielder. He's been good, but he hasn't been that good. Whitehead's been quite a bit better than him the last couple of games. Obviously in a team that was really struggling to score his goals have been massive for us. I'm sure there's more to come from him as he gets fitter. Just think some are getting a bit carried away at the moment. They are different types of players - but they seem to blend well together and unusually for Town the sum of the parts is high. We are effectively playing 4-4-2 with Bunn in the hole and Whitehead + Huws seem to make that system work. Its a long time since we have had a pair of central midfielders who are capable of making a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 work.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 1, 2015 23:49:53 GMT 1
Always the danger with a loan. You rarely profit in the long-term. That always used to be the case and I think we have suffered in the past from having loanees at the core of the team (like Drinkwater) and having to rebuild when they have gone. In the new world though effectively Coady and Butterfield have only bean "loans" - so we might as well get used to it
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 10:18:49 GMT 1
Post by de1terrier on Oct 2, 2015 10:18:49 GMT 1
Always the danger with a loan. You rarely profit in the long-term. That always used to be the case and I think we have suffered in the past from having loanees at the core of the team (like Drinkwater) and having to rebuild when they have gone. In the new world though effectively Coady and Butterfield have only bean "loans" - so we might as well get used to it well they were pretty damn Profitable 'loans' lol
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 10:42:28 GMT 1
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 2, 2015 10:42:28 GMT 1
That always used to be the case and I think we have suffered in the past from having loanees at the core of the team (like Drinkwater) and having to rebuild when they have gone. In the new world though effectively Coady and Butterfield have only bean "loans" - so we might as well get used to it well they were pretty damn Profitable 'loans' lol It's been onwards and upwards so far but we are only ever going to be as good as our next round of recycling.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 11:31:48 GMT 1
The untouchable warchest is probably either in Towns account or Dean's. I think it's quite clear it was and will never be used for transfers.So DH was lying to everyone's face at Canlside last week? A bold statement from you. So where is the money then, it's in one of their bank accounts now? It certainly wasn't spent on strengthening the squad like Hoyle said it would be. Who did we sign? The Coady money was to balance the books, what about the Smithies and Butterfield money?
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 11:56:55 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 11:56:55 GMT 1
So DH was lying to everyone's face at Canlside last week? A bold statement from you. So where is the money then, it's in one of their bank accounts now? It certainly wasn't spent on strengthening the squad like Hoyle said it would be. Who did we sign? The Coady money was to balance the books, what about the Smithies and Butterfield money? Come back in February. If we've not spent anything then you may have more of an argument. It's a bit like buying a house. Just because you want it doesn't mean you can have it. Prices miraculously go up once an offer is in...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 12:16:48 GMT 1
So DH was lying to everyone's face at Canlside last week? A bold statement from you. So where is the money then, it's in one of their bank accounts now? It certainly wasn't spent on strengthening the squad like Hoyle said it would be. Who did we sign? The Coady money was to balance the books, what about the Smithies and Butterfield money? £35m and counting Marcus. £35 fucking million.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 12:38:59 GMT 1
Idea for a TV programme: "MarcusD investigates", in which our reporter looks for corruption and wrong doing in a variety of fields, from the world's banking industry to transfer funds at lower league football clubs. The show is nominally a serious investigation into fraudulent activity, however it quickly becomes apparent to all but the host that his lack of knowledge, pettiness and complete incompetence has turned the whole concept into a "hilarious" farce.
In the building I work in, Channel 5 have an office. I reckon there's a good chance they'd go for that.
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 12:48:22 GMT 1
Post by softboy on Oct 2, 2015 12:48:22 GMT 1
I don't seem to remember Town making any comments about wanting to sign this guy on a permanent basis. Perhaps the deal is - come to us, we will give you first team championship football, help you get fit, back in the Wales squad (which he has done) and we can then go our seperate ways. Dempsey to step in when he goes back.
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 13:12:30 GMT 1
Post by Detective Boyle on Oct 2, 2015 13:12:30 GMT 1
So where is the money then, it's in one of their bank accounts now? It certainly wasn't spent on strengthening the squad like Hoyle said it would be. Who did we sign? The Coady money was to balance the books, what about the Smithies and Butterfield money? £35m and counting Marcus. £35 fucking million. So does that mean for the rest of Hoyle's time here he doesn't have to put any more money into the club?
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 13:23:55 GMT 1
Post by jstorr13 on Oct 2, 2015 13:23:55 GMT 1
If he carries on his great form then we'll sign him permanent in January and sell him on for substantial profit in the summer.
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 13:27:19 GMT 1
Post by softboy on Oct 2, 2015 13:27:19 GMT 1
Hope we do - just trying to say that there may be no intention for a permanent signing (at present)from either player or club.
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 13:30:57 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 13:30:57 GMT 1
If he carries on his great form then we'll sign him permanent in January and sell him on for substantial profit in the summer. if he keeps his great form,I doubt he will be interested in signing for us,no need for a stepping stone when you can stride straight into a bigger club with more wages
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 13:34:10 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 13:34:10 GMT 1
£35m and counting Marcus. £35 fucking million. So does that mean for the rest of Hoyle's time here he doesn't have to put any more money into the club? He's entitled to put in what ever he feels fit. Marcus is making it out like Hoyle is corrupt and fleecing the club. Do you feel like he's not quite chucking in enough cash at it for you?
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 13:33:47 GMT 1
Post by AndySk on Oct 2, 2015 13:33:47 GMT 1
If he carries on his great form then we'll sign him permanent in January and sell him on for substantial profit in the summer. If he carries on this great form he'll def go for £2mill + which effectively rules us out
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 13:59:53 GMT 1
Post by Detective Boyle on Oct 2, 2015 13:59:53 GMT 1
So does that mean for the rest of Hoyle's time here he doesn't have to put any more money into the club? He's entitled to put in what ever he feels fit. Marcus is making it out like Hoyle is corrupt and fleecing the club. Do you feel like he's not quite chucking in enough cash at it for you? Yes, that is how I feel at this moment in time. We simply have to spend money to improve in this league now
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Post by gledholt terrier on Oct 2, 2015 14:21:09 GMT 1
He's entitled to put in what ever he feels fit. Marcus is making it out like Hoyle is corrupt and fleecing the club. Do you feel like he's not quite chucking in enough cash at it for you? Yes, that is how I feel at this moment in time. We simply have to spend money to improve in this league now We eagerly await the opening of your cheque book with grateful thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 14:26:02 GMT 1
If he carries on his great form then we'll sign him permanent in January and sell him on for substantial profit in the summer. If he carries on this great form he'll def go for £2mill + which effectively rules us out Considering he cost Wigan a million more than that last year, add on at least another million which will definitely rule us out.
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 14:30:06 GMT 1
Post by RickDangerous on Oct 2, 2015 14:30:06 GMT 1
If he carries on his great form then we'll sign him permanent in January and sell him on for substantial profit in the summer. If he carries on this great form he'll def go for £2mill + which effectively rules us out Nevermind look on the bright side - we'll end up well up the table & it proves our recruiting system is again a success.
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 14:41:29 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 14:41:29 GMT 1
He's entitled to put in what ever he feels fit. Marcus is making it out like Hoyle is corrupt and fleecing the club. Do you feel like he's not quite chucking in enough cash at it for you? Yes, that is how I feel at this moment in time. We simply have to spend money to improve in this league now Ok, so if that's how you feel, will you please find me a direct quote from Dean Hoyle in which he states that he will no longer be spending another penny on Improving the playing squad. When you've found it, we can continue you this. If not, get your cheque book out. Deans got stuff wrong, this seasons ticket prices being the main one. To say that he's trousering profits from player sales is quite honestly embarrassing when the club is LOSING £500k a month.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 14:42:14 GMT 1
So where is the money then, it's in one of their bank accounts now? It certainly wasn't spent on strengthening the squad like Hoyle said it would be. Who did we sign? The Coady money was to balance the books, what about the Smithies and Butterfield money? Come back in February. If we've not spent anything then you may have more of an argument. It's a bit like buying a house. Just because you want it doesn't mean you can have it. Prices miraculously go up once an offer is in... Same old same old... In the Summer we get told they'll buy in January, in January we are told there is no value and they'll wait until the summer. Heard it all before over the last 2 or 3 seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 14:45:33 GMT 1
So where is the money then, it's in one of their bank accounts now? It certainly wasn't spent on strengthening the squad like Hoyle said it would be. Who did we sign? The Coady money was to balance the books, what about the Smithies and Butterfield money? £35m and counting Marcus. £35 fucking million. And how much of that £35M was actually put into something owned by Hoyle? How much was the money put into Canalside, (Which he also owns?). I've been grateful for what he has done, but it's fairly obvious now that he wants out. He stopped funding the club a while ago. It's time some one here realised that. At this rate, the club should make a sizeable profit this year, due to the fire sale and loaning out anyone we can to get them off the wage bill.
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 14:51:51 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 14:51:51 GMT 1
So does that mean for the rest of Hoyle's time here he doesn't have to put any more money into the club? He's entitled to put in what ever he feels fit. Marcus is making it out like Hoyle is corrupt and fleecing the club. Do you feel like he's not quite chucking in enough cash at it for you? Not at all. You've grabbed the wrong end of the stick again. It's not corruption or fleecing, just that he wants out and is liquidising the assets rather than continuing funding the club's shortfall. The point I'm making is that all his "We're selling our best players to re-invest in the squad" bollocks, is just that. The money will not be spent on transfers, the owner is cashing his chips in. We are going to be in limbo, with ever decreasing asset value now until the next rich owner comes in wanting to play at owning a football club. Our current one appears to want out now. "Butterfield is not for sale" "Smithies is not for sale" "The club is not for sale" Until "the right buyer comes along".
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 14:56:26 GMT 1
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Post by gledholt terrier on Oct 2, 2015 14:56:26 GMT 1
£35m and counting Marcus. £35 fucking million. And how much of that £35M was actually put into something owned by Hoyle? How much was the money put into Canalside, (Which he also owns?). I've been grateful for what he has done, but it's fairly obvious now that he wants out. He stopped funding the club a while ago. It's time some one here realised that. At this rate, the club should make a sizeable profit this year, due to the fire sale and loaning out anyone we can to get them off the wage bill. Very strange "fire sale". Are you sure you know what that means?
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 15:05:03 GMT 1
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Post by AndySk on Oct 2, 2015 15:05:03 GMT 1
If he carries on this great form he'll def go for £2mill + which effectively rules us out Nevermind look on the bright side - we'll end up well up the table & it proves our recruiting system is again a success. Yep and certainly much better than the days of getting players like des Hamilton on loan!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 15:21:19 GMT 1
Youll be in big boys shoes with laces one day Marcus, until then stop posting please
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 15:33:51 GMT 1
Post by Henry Mcgee on Oct 2, 2015 15:33:51 GMT 1
£35m and counting Marcus. £35 fucking million. And how much of that £35M was actually put into something owned by Hoyle? How much was the money put into Canalside, (Which he also owns?). I've been grateful for what he has done, but it's fairly obvious now that he wants out - No it isn't. He stopped funding the club a while ago - No he didn't (still £2m a year). It's time some one here realised that. At this rate, the club should make a sizeable profit this year - betcha it doesn't, due to the fire sale and loaning out anyone we can to get them off the wage bill - you mean a few young 'uns to lower league teams, wow that must be making us fucking millions that.
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Huws
Oct 2, 2015 15:51:22 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 15:51:22 GMT 1
He's entitled to put in what ever he feels fit. Marcus is making it out like Hoyle is corrupt and fleecing the club. Do you feel like he's not quite chucking in enough cash at it for you? Not at all. You've grabbed the wrong end of the stick again. It's not corruption or fleecing, just that he wants out and is liquidising the assets rather than continuing funding the club's shortfall. The point I'm making is that all his "We're selling our best players to re-invest in the squad" bollocks, is just that. The money will not be spent on transfers, the owner is cashing his chips in. We are going to be in limbo, with ever decreasing asset value now until the next rich owner comes in wanting to play at owning a football club. Our current one appears to want out now. "Butterfield is not for sale" "Smithies is not for sale" "The club is not for sale" Until "the right buyer comes along". As in a Kenwood mixer?
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