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Post by ShortbreadPete on Nov 30, 2015 16:29:16 GMT 1
Interesting that we kept being told that some of our younger lads weren't 'ready' under CP. Under Wagner we've seen a transformation and Lolley, Smith, Holmes, Dempsey and Bojaj have all been involved and have impressed. Add Chilwell to that list of youngsters and the impact has been incredible. If they're good enough they're ready and under Wagner I think we're going to see different players to the ones we thought we knew. Can't wait to see the new look Ishy making an impact.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Nov 30, 2015 18:30:11 GMT 1
I've been banging on for ages about giving the young ones a chance but kept getting shot down in flames and being told that they can't be good enough because Powell sees them everyday in training, and why wouldn't he use them if they were good enough. Events over the past couple of weeks have answered this to some degree and its clear that some of these lads would never have been given a proper chance under Powell.
Thank goodness we now appear to have a manager who recognizes talent and is not afraid to give them a go.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Nov 30, 2015 19:02:14 GMT 1
Before we all get carried away, while it can only be good news that the youngsters are being given a chance, let's look at those names one by one -
Lolley - played well on Saturday, but we are still looking for his end product and consistenecy.
Smith - some were calling him on here a few weeks ago - he played well on Saturday, but he's never gonna be Jack Hunt, is he?
Holmes - Did well in his cameo on Sat, but can he do it again, and can he do it from the start? Looking more likley the more we see of him
Dempsey - The nail in Powell's coffin for me, this lad had bags of talent and determination it appears, in what world was he "not good enough"?!!!!
Bojaj - I like the look of the lad, but he needs a few more games, he also will need goals, we already have enough non-scoring strikers, thank you.
The big thing for me is not that Wagner is playing them, it is that he is giving them (well in one game, anyway) enough time to do so, not 2 mins at the end just to waste time.
More of this strategy and we'll soon know whether they can cut it!
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Nov 30, 2015 19:24:53 GMT 1
An odd OP.. lolley and Holmes have it all to prove .. Smith has played donkeys games under Powell and bojaj to me looks like a boy in a man's world .. once our injuries clear and we sign a man or two I would question if any of em will get a game . Dempsey looks a player but Wagner didn't play him Saturday .. and chilwell is someone else's ..all in all not a hammer to beat over Powell's head imo.. let's have this discussion in six months
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 19:27:47 GMT 1
I dunno. The young ones obviously have talent, but once Wagner gets into the transfer market in January how many will still play? Difficult, but I must admit it's a promising start. One bloke behind me on saturday enthused, and asked "why didn't we go for this bloke at the start of the season", the kids on the field we're playing that well. We won't have many tougher home games than Boro at home this year, and the kids on show shone.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Nov 30, 2015 19:37:07 GMT 1
Before we all get carried away, while it can only be good news that the youngsters are being given a chance, let's look at those names one by one - Lolley - played well on Saturday, but we are still looking for his end product and consistenecy. Smith - some were calling him on here a few weeks ago - he played well on Saturday, but he's never gonna be Jack Hunt, is he? Holmes - Did well in his cameo on Sat, but can he do it again, and can he do it from the start? Looking more likley the more we see of him Dempsey - The nail in Powell's coffin for me, this lad had bags of talent and determination it appears, in what world was he "not good enough"?!!!! Bojaj - I like the look of the lad, but he needs a few more games, he also will need goals, we already have enough non-scoring strikers, thank you. The big thing for me is not that Wagner is playing them, it is that he is giving them (well in one game, anyway) enough time to do so, not 2 mins at the end just to waste time. More of this strategy and we'll soon know whether they can cut it! That's a long winded way of saying you're coming round to my way of thinking  |
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Post by wtd on Nov 30, 2015 19:42:36 GMT 1
I've been banging on for ages about giving the young ones a chance but kept getting shot down in flames and being told that they can't be good enough because Powell sees them everyday in training, and why wouldn't he use them if they were good enough. Events over the past couple of weeks have answered this to some degree and its clear that some of these lads would never have been given a proper chance under Powell. Thank goodness we now appear to have a manager who recognizes talent and is not afraid to give them a go. Guilty as charged, Frankie. It is refreshing to see these young lads having a go, but it is still early days and I don't think we should get too carried away... not just yet. |
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Post by morleyterrier on Nov 30, 2015 19:43:10 GMT 1
Interesting that we kept being told that some of our younger lads weren't 'ready' under CP. Under Wagner we've seen a transformation and Lolley, Smith, Holmes, Dempsey and Bojaj have all been involved and have impressed. Add Chilwell to that list of youngsters and the impact has been incredible. If they're good enough they're ready and under Wagner I think we're going to see different players to the ones we thought we knew. Can't wait to see the new look Ishy making an impact. Don't even get me started. |
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Post by y2troy on Nov 30, 2015 19:58:07 GMT 1
we need a starting point first of all with these youngsters playing to a style and sticking with a style ,problem is in past we didnt know how we play how we did it and how to integrate players in when there is so much inconsistency in there as hard to evaluate a player when cant do either of these .Now lets hope these players get a good amount of game time together with experience GOOD professionals in right areas and the team can only flourish from what i have seen so far .
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Nov 30, 2015 19:58:50 GMT 1
Interesting that we kept being told that some of our younger lads weren't 'ready' under CP. Under Wagner we've seen a transformation and Lolley, Smith, Holmes, Dempsey and Bojaj have all been involved and have impressed. Add Chilwell to that list of youngsters and the impact has been incredible. If they're good enough they're ready and under Wagner I think we're going to see different players to the ones we thought we knew. Can't wait to see the new look Ishy making an impact. Don't even get me started. I was pretty disappointed he dropped Dempsey on Saturday. I like Paterson and Huws but unless we have serious intention of buying them I'd like to see Dempsey in one of the 3 midfield roles or in one of the "wide" roles. |
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Post by Tim Nice But Dim on Nov 30, 2015 19:58:43 GMT 1
Interesting that we kept being told that some of our younger lads weren't 'ready' under CP. Under Wagner we've seen a transformation and Lolley, Smith, Holmes, Dempsey and Bojaj have all been involved and have impressed. Add Chilwell to that list of youngsters and the impact has been incredible. If they're good enough they're ready and under Wagner I think we're going to see different players to the ones we thought we knew. Can't wait to see the new look Ishy making an impact. I am still not overly convinced with Lolley and can Holmes deliver the goods! he has to prove himself from the start. Herr Wagner will give everyone a chance to prove themselves, but we are woefully short up front and the defence needs sorting, so don't be surprised to face a few new faces come January. |
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Post by keithAM11532 on Nov 30, 2015 20:07:55 GMT 1
The acid test will be Bristol City. The truth is we potentially would have lost to both SW and Boro even if Powell had still been at the helm. There is a strong possibility that Birmingham will beat us as well. The first weak team we come across is Bristol. if they win and we suddenly find ourselves cemented in the bottom three, no amount of youngsters or breadpressing is going to stop the meltdown.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 30, 2015 20:52:18 GMT 1
Wouldn't mind seeing a few German players coming in to freshen the place up.
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 30, 2015 21:16:50 GMT 1
Said it yesterday. It wasn't the players, it was the manager.
They were good enough all along and those who toed Powell's line of thinking might be a tad embarrassed right now too.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Nov 30, 2015 21:17:37 GMT 1
Before we all get carried away, while it can only be good news that the youngsters are being given a chance, let's look at those names one by one - Lolley - played well on Saturday, but we are still looking for his end product and consistenecy. Smith - some were calling him on here a few weeks ago - he played well on Saturday, but he's never gonna be Jack Hunt, is he? Holmes - Did well in his cameo on Sat, but can he do it again, and can he do it from the start? Looking more likley the more we see of him Dempsey - The nail in Powell's coffin for me, this lad had bags of talent and determination it appears, in what world was he "not good enough"?!!!! Bojaj - I like the look of the lad, but he needs a few more games, he also will need goals, we already have enough non-scoring strikers, thank you. The big thing for me is not that Wagner is playing them, it is that he is giving them (well in one game, anyway) enough time to do so, not 2 mins at the end just to waste time. More of this strategy and we'll soon know whether they can cut it! That's a long winded way of saying you're coming round to my way of thinking Au contraire!! If you look at my previous threads I think you'll find there are two thrusts to my argument - 1 - If we are ever to decide whether young players are good enough, we have to blood them. That, in my book, means giving them more than 2 minutes at the end of a dead game. 2 - There are young players who are not good enough (Sinnot, unfortunately), there are some we will let go who may her come good (Crooks at Accrington, or Sinclair at Notts Co until his injury, perhaps?). Then there are some on whom the jury is still out - see list above; non of these have yet been proven, except, in my opinion, Dempsey. Let's see what develops over the next 12 months, I suspect this is a story that will turn & run?!! |
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Post by bluesandtwos on Nov 30, 2015 22:29:42 GMT 1
One major difference is we are playing a style of football the younger players understand from the Academy and under 21s. They also seem to be working to a plan, even if that is CHARGE!!! Lolley's comments were interesting:
"I know that sometimes I carry the ball too much, but in the old method of playing the wingers could get a little isolated and the job was to beat one or two players and get a shot or a cross in yourself. Now we have to come in off the wing and link up and you know you will always have a teammate available"
Quick, one or two touch football is what the younger players know, rather than the slow pedestrian style we played under CP. So they are much more likely to slot in and feel more comfortable and confident.
We need the goals to start coming and that could happen with more confidence and against less well drilled outfits than Boro.
Really exciting times.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 1, 2015 0:04:52 GMT 1
Said it yesterday. It wasn't the players, it was the manager. They were good enough all along and those who toed Powell's line of thinking might be a tad embarrassed right now too. Or not... Vindication is a year or 100 games unDer the belt. Vindication is not three games we've lost 0-3 1-3 0-2 No embarrassment in these quarters I'm afraid.. Let's play the long game and come back to it in a year ? |
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Dec 1, 2015 0:13:54 GMT 1
An odd OP.. lolley and Holmes have it all to prove .. Smith has played donkeys games under Powell and bojaj to me looks like a boy in a man's world .. once our injuries clear and we sign a man or two I would question if any of em will get a game . Dempsey looks a player but Wagner didn't play him Saturday .. and chilwell is someone else's ..all in all not a hammer to beat over Powell's head imo.. let's have this discussion in six months How very dare you! This was the point I was making, 'Under Wagner I think we're going to see different players to the ones we thought we knew'. Time will tell as you say but there are very encouraging signs |
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Post by richyhtfc on Dec 1, 2015 0:15:28 GMT 1
Interesting that we kept being told that some of our younger lads weren't 'ready' under CP. Under Wagner we've seen a transformation and Lolley, Smith, Holmes, Dempsey and Bojaj have all been involved and have impressed. Add Chilwell to that list of youngsters and the impact has been incredible. If they're good enough they're ready and under Wagner I think we're going to see different players to the ones we thought we knew. Can't wait to see the new look Ishy making an impact. May be we should wait till we at lest get a point before claiming this heh? |
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 1, 2015 0:19:51 GMT 1
To be fair, I'm embarrassed for all those that toed Powell's line. 'Powell played for England therefore Dempsey isn't good enough'. I was having a reet laugh to myself. Blair said there were WMDs in Iraq and they all flock out to war instead of actually processing information for themselves. Too much telling and be told in this society. Think for your fucking selves.
These boys are impressing Teddy, old boy. Dempsey v Leeds. Billing v Leeds. Dempsey v Sheff Weds. Lolley v Boro. Holmes, ditto. These lads are impressing against good sides, big sides. Complimenting the senior players we have well. That's what it was all about all along, being a team.
Vindication implies justification. I haven't done anything wrong to be looking for either.
Why should we be playing the long game? The long game is irrelevant. It is about integrating the younger, talented players into the side so we stand a better chance in the future. It was about - in the words of the great Roy Walker - saying what you see.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 1, 2015 0:31:15 GMT 1
To be fair, I'm embarrassed for all those that toed Powell's line. 'Powell played for England therefore Dempsey isn't good enough'. I was having a reet laugh to myself. Blair said there were WMDs in Iraq and they all flock out to war instead of actually processing information for themselves. Too much telling and be told in this society. Think for your fucking selves. These boys are impressing Teddy, old boy. Dempsey v Leeds. Billing v Leeds. Dempsey v Sheff Weds. Lolley v Boro. Holmes, ditto. These lads are impressing against good sides, big sides. Complimenting the senior players we have well. That's what it was all about all along, being a team. Vindication implies justification. I haven't done anything wrong to be looking for either. Why should we be playing the long game? The long game is irrelevant. It is about integrating the younger, talented players into the side so we stand a better chance in the future. It was about - in the words of the great Roy Walker - saying what you see. I'll be honest pipes, I like you a lot you know that. But in the last couple of weeks you have posted more drivel than I thought imaginable .. How on earth can you be calling people embarrassing cos a few kids have come in and done OK .. Not great.. OK... For three games.. Three games in which we got beat.. Blimey Riley Tim Hotte came In and had a few good games.. I thought he would be a great.. Adnan Ahmed came in and had a few good games., I thought he would be a star... FFS you do realise you could well end up with BOXES of egg over your face ? Then your self proclaimed " king of the talent scouts" moniker will be up in dust... There is no shades of grey pipes.. You are right and the rest are embarrassing... And all this as you argue with people who have actually seen these players close up... I'm telling you this.. If you wish to use Joe Lolley vs Middlesborough as an example of a young player having a great game then think again.. He was bang average at best... In fact I walked away thinking I've been hasty thinking he had a big future.. He's only ever done it for me when coming on for ten minutes... He looks threatening but on Saturday actually did the square root of fuck all ! But if you want to use him to further your claim that everyone bar you is nuts then be my guest.. And see you in a year for a reappraisal eh ? |
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 1, 2015 0:49:39 GMT 1
Epsom is the king of the scouts. Fresh Prince knows his onions too but he was wrong about Garbutt and I was right on that one.  But generally, I don't see myself as 'king of the talent scouts' at all mate. My lad knows twice as much about young footballers as me. I can spot a good player, yes. I can stand up for a good player, yes, when all others are saying he isn't good enough or won't make it just because some paranoid safety first ex-England FB is too scared to play him. I can take the flak. I can think for myself. But self proclaimed 'king of the talent scouts'? Sheer fiction Ted. You've exaggerated the words of a poster who put his convictons out there and then under pressure and in a rare display of self-promotion said 'I can spot a player'. That's all I said. What have these lads got to do to convince you they can play at this level, win the Ballon D'or? One or two might get injured along the way, slip down a league or two, some might go on to better things. That's football, that's how life goes. Why use that as a tool in a year's time against someone who was just sticking up for the young uns. Yes they are good enough if they put the work in. What's to gain by being negative? You've got a kid mate. Support is key to development. |
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Post by royrace on Dec 1, 2015 0:51:54 GMT 1
Let's see some points on the board before we all start assuming the kids are good enough eh. They've looked promising whilst we've been getting beaten, bit too early for gloating that's for sure.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using proboards
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 1, 2015 0:55:17 GMT 1
Anyway you've got your mandatory 'like' from Doc there I see. Walt will be along shortly. Maybe a few others I've upset along the way. Upthetown69 maybe.
Bad man 3pipe because I've stuck up for the young uns and I swear a bit.
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Post by wtd on Dec 1, 2015 1:00:12 GMT 1
Anyway you've got your mandatory 'like' from Doc there I see. Walt will be along shortly. Maybe a few others I've upset along the way. Upthetown69 maybe. Bad man 3pipe because I've stuck up for the young uns and I swear a bit. Would it be ok for me to say I quite like you both?   |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Dec 1, 2015 1:03:08 GMT 1
To be fair, I'm embarrassed for all those that toed Powell's line. 'Powell played for England therefore Dempsey isn't good enough'. I was having a reet laugh to myself. Blair said there were WMDs in Iraq and they all flock out to war instead of actually processing information for themselves. Too much telling and be told in this society. Think for your fucking selves. These boys are impressing Teddy, old boy. Dempsey v Leeds. Billing v Leeds. Dempsey v Sheff Weds. Lolley v Boro. Holmes, ditto. These lads are impressing against good sides, big sides. Complimenting the senior players we have well. That's what it was all about all along, being a team. Vindication implies justification. I haven't done anything wrong to be looking for either. Why should we be playing the long game? The long game is irrelevant. It is about integrating the younger, talented players into the side so we stand a better chance in the future. It was about - in the words of the great Roy Walker - saying what you see. I'll be honest pipes, I like you a lot you know that. But in the last couple of weeks you have posted more drivel than I thought imaginable .. How on earth can you be calling people embarrassing cos a few kids have come in and done OK .. Not great.. OK... For three games.. Three games in which we got beat.. Blimey Riley Tim Hotte came In and had a few good games.. I thought he would be a great.. Adnan Ahmed came in and had a few good games., I thought he would be a star... FFS you do realise you could well end up with BOXES of egg over your face ? Then your self proclaimed " king of the talent scouts" moniker will be up in dust... There is no shades of grey pipes.. You are right and the rest are embarrassing... And all this as you argue with people who have actually seen these players close up... I'm telling you this.. If you wish to use Joe Lolley vs Middlesborough as an example of a young player having a great game then think again.. He was bang average at best... In fact I walked away thinking I've been hasty thinking he had a big future.. He's only ever done it for me when coming on for ten minutes... He looks threatening but on Saturday actually did the square root of fuck all ! But if you want to use him to further your claim that everyone bar you is nuts then be my guest.. And see you in a year for a reappraisal eh ? Being at Watford - despite the timing of the fixture and the myth that Watford were on the beach (there is no doubt in mind they were trying to win just as much as us and were embarrassed at the final whistle) Joe Lolley's performance that day has been the highlight, sadly he hasn't come close to matching that since. I have seen him make a couple of starts despite my move away - he's only made 6 starts in total. Hopefully, he and Dempsey can go on to bigger and better things at first team level. I feel I have been a campaigner for the kids (despite Pipey stating otherwise yesterday), we have quite a bit of talent if nurtured correctly could well be stars of tomorrow, my complaint of Powell was that this nurturing wasn't taking place, if we had an injury even for the odd game then a loan acquistion was sought rather than putting a kid in for a game or two. It is interesting to read that DH saw Powell's reluctance to blood some kids after last season's survival was secured was probably the start of his downfall. i wonder why he did this, was it selfishly for his CV because it wasn't in the best interests of Town's future. Even Micky Buxton said back in the day that youngsters had to be introduced gradually even after a seemingly successful introduction they needed resting after a run of 6-8 games. I believe he stated this after Mark Lillis first team introduction (How old do I feel saying that!). I don't feel that this was going to happen to any of the current bunch. Can I just put on record that I feel that Jack Boyle has the potential to be a real star (though I envisage many Holmes like threads about his size) before Pipey claims to have spotted his talent before he was conceived |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Dec 1, 2015 1:05:14 GMT 1
Anyway you've got your mandatory 'like' from Doc there I see. Walt will be along shortly. Maybe a few others I've upset along the way. Upthetown69 maybe. Bad man 3pipe because I've stuck up for the young uns and I swear a bit. Maybe cos he made a post along the lines of one I made yesterday - How shocking of a poster to hit 'like' on a post he agrees with, whatever next! |
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 1, 2015 1:07:24 GMT 1
Would it be ok for me to say I quite like you both? Don't worry mate. The Brockholes/Newmill/Nook bond is a strong one. And we like you too..  |
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Post by 3Pipe on Dec 1, 2015 1:10:03 GMT 1
Can I just put on record that I feel that Jack Boyle has the potential to be a real star (though I envisage many Holmes like threads about his size) before Pipey claims to have spotted his talent before he was conceived He's from Scholes so that's actually quite possible. |
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Post by wtd on Dec 1, 2015 1:11:03 GMT 1
Would it be ok for me to say I quite like you both? Don't worry mate. The Brockholes/Newmill/Nook bond is a strong one. And we like you too.. Sounds like a dodgy solicitors |
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