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Post by drumriggend on Sept 6, 2019 7:15:33 GMT 1
Been ruminating whilst on hols..
Its my belief that the biggest cause of our current predicament is allowing wagner to leave when he did..
His methods..
Training schedules..
Work ethic..
Terrier spirit..
Were the rock that our promotion and 1st successful premier lg season were built on..
The appointment of hudson and whitehead as youth team coaches working alongside him was ideal..
Let them watch and learn his methods at first hand..
Then at some time in the future hudson could take over and carry on the good work..
We all know now that wagner changed his playing system because he knew diakabhy/mbenza/sobhi wernt good enough..
Our relegation became almost inevitable by xmas last year..
However the club should have kept faith in the wagner model..
Insisted he stayed on to end of season or put hudson/whitehead in charge to end of season..
Whilst we were going down anyway i believe its the appointment of sievert that really fooooked us up..
He came in like a wrecking ball..
Pissed off half the team..
Ruined the team spirit..
Changed training methods..
And seemingly got everything wrong..
The club abandoned the ideas and principles that brought it its greatest success in 40+ years..
I still believe hudson should get the managers job..
Hes had a tough start but can turn it around given time..
To appoint cowley/bowyer/adkins or whoever would be a further abandonment of the wagner revolution..
Our relegation was inevitable at some point but dont abandon the principles that got us there..
Rant over..
đ¤
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Sept 6, 2019 7:21:36 GMT 1
Wagner changed his playing style 9 months before any of those wingers arrived
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Post by terriers321 on Sept 6, 2019 7:27:03 GMT 1
Completely disagree.
Managers come and go, bad or good. They have there own ideas on how things should be done. If one manager pisses off, you don't tell the new manager he can't implement his own style and ideas as you have to continue as the old one did.
And let's not forget the rot started under Wagner. The football was terrible and it was the run under him which was the defining factor in our relegation. We took a gamble and made a rubbish appointment but that gamble had to be taken. Let's take the rose tinted glasses off. If Wagner stayed we would of still gone down and he would of left at the end of the season.
I will back whoever we bring in, hopefully the right appointment will bring in some fresh new ideas and a fresh look not a micromanaged wagner clone.
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Post by runner76 on Sept 6, 2019 7:27:16 GMT 1
It wasnât just âWagnerâ the ideology it was âWagnerâ the man. Not so easy to keep that identity when the man is gone.....Queen is not Queen without Mercury
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Post by drumriggend on Sept 6, 2019 7:27:28 GMT 1
Wagner changed his playing style 9 months before any of those wingers arrived No he didnt.. 1st season premier lg we played 4 2 3 1 Nearly every game.. Against non top 6 teams.. Any 2 from -Vlp ince kachunga qanner as wingers.. |
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by k1man999 on Sept 6, 2019 7:27:57 GMT 1
Wagner changed his playing style 9 months before any of those wingers arrived Exactly but the recruitment team went and got them anyway when we could all see wagner had changed things but winter still blaming Dw for changing systems last minute as his excuse for spending a large chunk of cash on dross đ¤ |
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by k1man999 on Sept 6, 2019 7:29:03 GMT 1
Wagner changed his playing style 9 months before any of those wingers arrived maybe not 9 months before but he was changing things. but the recruitment team went and got them anyway when we could all see wagner had changed things but winter still blaming Dw for changing systems last minute as his excuse for spending a large chunk of cash on dross đ¤ |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Sept 6, 2019 7:30:07 GMT 1
Wagner changed his playing style 9 months before any of those wingers arrived No he didnt.. 1st season premier lg we played 4 2 3 1 Nearly every game.. Against non top 6 teams.. Any 2 from -Vlp ince kachunga qanner as wingers.. Style I said, not formation Our approach after the Tottenham game was the complete opposite to nearly every game he had managed before then |
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Post by drumriggend on Sept 6, 2019 7:40:25 GMT 1
No he didnt.. 1st season premier lg we played 4 2 3 1 Nearly every game.. Against non top 6 teams.. Any 2 from -Vlp ince kachunga qanner as wingers.. Style I said, not formation Our approach after the Tottenham game was the complete opposite to nearly every game he had managed before then Nah.. Not buying that "after the spurs game" Nonsense..thats been perpetuated by the new chairman to hide our bad recruitment. What about when we beat watford 4-1 and bournmouth? We were on the front foot and agressive in some games.. Lack of quality killed us in the end.. Not the change in formation or playing style |
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Post by El Mel on Sept 6, 2019 7:45:59 GMT 1
Wagner made the players fitter, and gave them belief. He added character to the squad in the likes of Hefele, Lowe and Schindler, and we landed an absolute star in Mooy.
When the belief had gone, and everybody else was at least as fit as us, we were never in the running under the guy.
The league position when he left tells you that.
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Post by townatheart on Sept 6, 2019 7:46:39 GMT 1
Style I said, not formation Our approach after the Tottenham game was the complete opposite to nearly every game he had managed before then Nah.. Not buying that "after the spurs game" Nonsense..thats been perpetuated by the new chairman to hide our bad recruitment. What about when we beat watford 4-1 and bournmouth? We were on the front foot and agressive in some games.. Lack of quality killed us in the end..
Not the change in formation or playing styleYou can choose not to see it, but think the majority of fans did see it fairly clearly. "some" being the operative word, and it might be said "not enough" games In that sense IMO it is TBF a bit of both sadly. |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Sept 6, 2019 7:47:57 GMT 1
Wagner is an enigma imo
We will never do what he did with us again !
The second season he looked broken after the shocking December results.
We brought in a totally inept arrogant Sievert.
Rest is history.
To me now the team and club is totally fragmented and boring to watch.
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Post by specialun on Sept 6, 2019 7:57:52 GMT 1
Wagner made the players fitter, and gave them belief. He added character to the squad in the likes of Hefele, Lowe and Schindler, and we landed an absolute star in Mooy. When the belief had gone, and everybody else was at least as fit as us, we were never in the running under the guy. The league position when he left tells you that. What position were we before we played Brighton at home and watched the Michael Oliver show? Weâd just got 7 points from 9.... werenât we 14th? Wagner continued to work miracles until late 18 It amuses me how he was criticised for changing his style - we had a wage bill ÂŁ15m lower then any other team first year - ÂŁ288k a week lower. Wagner the best out of the players and more until we lost Mooy, his replacement Williams and Mounies red Fitter..... organised, disciplined, smart, driven, together, spirit etc. Not just fitter and belief If anyone still cannot see how much Wagner overachieved with the team he had available in promotion season, staying up season and even the season we got relegated I give in If more of you appreciated that youâd have know pre season the squad we had would have been in the bottom half.... you didnât. Most somehow persuade yourselves we might be near the top 6. Deluded! Most started to believe the extraordinary was the ordinary... and some of you still do! The promotion team - average championship team The team that stayed up - average championship team and a bit more With anyone but Wagner in charge both teams would have finished, at best, mid table championship Wagner made the sum better than its parts. To go up, stay up and be where were end of Nov 18 were miracles Our record since he left P24 W1 D2 L21 |
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Post by royrace on Sept 6, 2019 8:06:14 GMT 1
Bang on about Siewert, he was the exact opposite of what the club and players needed at the time. The time wasted and damage done will be very difficult to recover from and I think the identity is now pretty much gone.
Club was stupidly talking about three window transition shortly after he came in. Not quite sure how they expected that to impact morale and team spirit. I know how it would go down at my place of work if the boss publicly told us they were looking to replace a lot of us all over the next year or so. Total fuckwittery imo.
Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards
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Post by terriers321 on Sept 6, 2019 8:11:00 GMT 1
Wagner made the players fitter, and gave them belief. He added character to the squad in the likes of Hefele, Lowe and Schindler, and we landed an absolute star in Mooy. When the belief had gone, and everybody else was at least as fit as us, we were never in the running under the guy. The league position when he left tells you that. What position were we before we played Brighton at home and watched the Michael Oliver show? Weâd just got 7 points from 9.... werenât we 14th? Wagner continued to work miracles until late 18 It amuses me how he was criticised for changing his style - we had a wage bill ÂŁ15m lower then any other team first year - ÂŁ288k a week lower. Wagner the best out of the players and more until we lost Mooy, his replacement Williams and Mounies red Fitter..... organised, disciplined, smart, driven, together, spirit etc. Not just fitter and belief If anyone still cannot see how much Wagner overachieved with the team he had available in promotion season, staying up season and even the season we got relegated I give in If more of you appreciated that youâd have know pre season the squad we had would have been in the bottom half.... you didnât. Most somehow persuade yourselves we might be near the top 6. Deluded! Most started to believe the extraordinary was the ordinary... and some of you still do! The promotion team - average championship team The team that stayed up - average championship team and a bit more Wagner made the sum better than its parts. To go up, stay up and be where were end of Nov 18 were miracles Our record since he left P24 W1 D2 L21 Why do people use the Mounie sending off as some sort of change in our season. We might of scored early but Brighton were the better team before the sending off anyway and Mounie was bloody useless when he was on the pitch that season. |
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digs
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by digs on Sept 6, 2019 8:13:52 GMT 1
It wasnât just âWagnerâ the ideology it was âWagnerâ the man. Not so easy to keep that identity when the man is gone.....Queen is not Queen without Mercury Freddie died and left a legacy,and the rest of the band continued to be brilliant musicians,still touring now. Wagner just left and left a pile of shite and under performing footballers,,,no comparison |
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Post by drumriggend on Sept 6, 2019 8:18:34 GMT 1
What position were we before we played Brighton at home and watched the Michael Oliver show? Weâd just got 7 points from 9.... werenât we 14th? Wagner continued to work miracles until late 18 It amuses me how he was criticised for changing his style - we had a wage bill ÂŁ15m lower then any other team first year - ÂŁ288k a week lower. Wagner the best out of the players and more until we lost Mooy, his replacement Williams and Mounies red Fitter..... organised, disciplined, smart, driven, together, spirit etc. Not just fitter and belief If anyone still cannot see how much Wagner overachieved with the team he had available in promotion season, staying up season and even the season we got relegated I give in If more of you appreciated that youâd have know pre season the squad we had would have been in the bottom half.... you didnât. Most somehow persuade yourselves we might be near the top 6. Deluded! Most started to believe the extraordinary was the ordinary... and some of you still do! The promotion team - average championship team The team that stayed up - average championship team and a bit more Wagner made the sum better than its parts. To go up, stay up and be where were end of Nov 18 were miracles Our record since he left P24 W1 D2 L21 Why do people use the Mounie sending off as some sort of change in our season. We might of scored early but Brighton were the better team before the sending off anyway and Mounie was bloody useless when he was on the pitch that season. Bollox.. Brighton barely got in our half until mounie got sent off.. They then equalised with last kick in 1st half injury time after bruno kept in a long ball over the top which i think had gone out of play but linesman didnt give.. |
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Post by runner76 on Sept 6, 2019 8:23:18 GMT 1
It wasnât just âWagnerâ the ideology it was âWagnerâ the man. Not so easy to keep that identity when the man is gone.....Queen is not Queen without Mercury Freddie died and left a legacy,and the rest of the band continued to be brilliant musicians,still touring now. Wagner just left and left a pile of shite and under performing footballers,,,no comparison I want to break free |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 8:27:53 GMT 1
What position were we before we played Brighton at home and watched the Michael Oliver show? Weâd just got 7 points from 9.... werenât we 14th? Wagner continued to work miracles until late 18 It amuses me how he was criticised for changing his style - we had a wage bill ÂŁ15m lower then any other team first year - ÂŁ288k a week lower. Wagner the best out of the players and more until we lost Mooy, his replacement Williams and Mounies red Fitter..... organised, disciplined, smart, driven, together, spirit etc. Not just fitter and belief If anyone still cannot see how much Wagner overachieved with the team he had available in promotion season, staying up season and even the season we got relegated I give in If more of you appreciated that youâd have know pre season the squad we had would have been in the bottom half.... you didnât. Most somehow persuade yourselves we might be near the top 6. Deluded! Most started to believe the extraordinary was the ordinary... and some of you still do! The promotion team - average championship team The team that stayed up - average championship team and a bit more Wagner made the sum better than its parts. To go up, stay up and be where were end of Nov 18 were miracles Our record since he left P24 W1 D2 L21 Why do people use the Mounie sending off as some sort of change in our season. We might of scored early but Brighton were the better team before the sending off anyway and Mounie was bloody useless when he was on the pitch that season. Selective memories going on here I think and all this "fine margins" bollocks, we didn't do enough in most of the games during the first half of the season, having all the ball but doing fuck all with it doesn't entitle you to win games. Let's just admit it, we were poor and offered sod all up front. The performance away at Arsenal summed us up, no idea up front and one stupid mistake at the back led to the 1-0 loss. Did we even have a shot on target against Arsenal? |
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Post by terriers321 on Sept 6, 2019 8:28:16 GMT 1
Why do people use the Mounie sending off as some sort of change in our season. We might of scored early but Brighton were the better team before the sending off anyway and Mounie was bloody useless when he was on the pitch that season. Bollox.. Brighton barely got in our half until mounie got sent off.. They then equalised with last kick in 1st half injury time after bruno kept in a long ball over the top which i think had gone out of play but linesman didnt give.. Watching a completely different game to me then. We were not playing well in that Brighton match before the sending off. Saying the sending off of a player who couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo was a turning point in our season is delusional and a deflection tactic from the Wagner can do no wrong fanboys. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 8:29:27 GMT 1
Bollox.. Brighton barely got in our half until mounie got sent off.. They then equalised with last kick in 1st half injury time after bruno kept in a long ball over the top which i think had gone out of play but linesman didnt give.. Watching a completely different game to me then. We were not playing well in that Brighton match before the sending off. Saying the sending off of a player who couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo was a turning point in our season is delusional and a deflection tactic from the Wagner can do no wrong fanboys. Even worse when we had to play Depoitre in three games though, he did absolutely nothing apart from miss an absolute gobber at Bournemouth. |
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Post by boooothy on Sept 6, 2019 8:29:28 GMT 1
There was an interview with Dean Hoyle at the start of last season.He was telling the tale of speaking to the Swansea chairman and heâd asked him where he thought it had gone wrong.
Mr Swansea told him they lost their identity. He explained by that Swansea had a style of play, passing from the back, attacking trying to win games, like when they got promoted.
He felt that once the sole aim became staying up games were about not losing points, draws were good results and looking good counted for nothing.
Shortly after that we dumped the 4 2 1 3 formation and the pressing. We became a lot more competitive against the big teams, but we stopped beating the shit ones cause we stopped trying to score.
I think this is the reason Hoyle had a bit of a falling out of love with Wagner and why he incorrectly binned him before the end of the season.
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Post by El Mel on Sept 6, 2019 8:30:43 GMT 1
Wagner made the players fitter, and gave them belief. He added character to the squad in the likes of Hefele, Lowe and Schindler, and we landed an absolute star in Mooy. When the belief had gone, and everybody else was at least as fit as us, we were never in the running under the guy. The league position when he left tells you that. What position were we before we played Brighton at home and watched the Michael Oliver show? Weâd just got 7 points from 9.... werenât we 14th? Wagner continued to work miracles until late 18 It amuses me how he was criticised for changing his style - we had a wage bill ÂŁ15m lower then any other team first year - ÂŁ288k a week lower. Wagner the best out of the players and more until we lost Mooy, his replacement Williams and Mounies red Fitter..... organised, disciplined, smart, driven, together, spirit etc. Not just fitter and belief If anyone still cannot see how much Wagner overachieved with the team he had available in promotion season, staying up season and even the season we got relegated I give in If more of you appreciated that youâd have know pre season the squad we had would have been in the bottom half.... you didnât. Most somehow persuade yourselves we might be near the top 6. Deluded! Most started to believe the extraordinary was the ordinary... and some of you still do! The promotion team - average championship team The team that stayed up - average championship team and a bit more With anyone but Wagner in charge both teams would have finished, at best, mid table championship Wagner made the sum better than its parts. To go up, stay up and be where were end of Nov 18 were miracles Our record since he left P24 W1 D2 L21 1 point from the next nine, 8 losses and 1 draw. Then he left I believe. Where any team is at the end of November is irrelevant. |
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Post by drumriggend on Sept 6, 2019 8:33:29 GMT 1
Bollox.. Brighton barely got in our half until mounie got sent off.. They then equalised with last kick in 1st half injury time after bruno kept in a long ball over the top which i think had gone out of play but linesman didnt give.. Watching a completely different game to me then. We were not playing well in that Brighton match before the sending off. Saying the sending off of a player who couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo was a turning point in our season is delusional and a deflection tactic from the Wagner can do no wrong fanboys. So you dont think us going down to 10 men has a bearing on the result?? Also.. If as a town fan you arnt a wagner fan then thas wrong in head.. |
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digs
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by digs on Sept 6, 2019 8:34:06 GMT 1
Freddie died and left a legacy,and the rest of the band continued to be brilliant musicians,still touring now. Wagner just left and left a pile of shite and under performing footballers,,,no comparison I want to break free show must go on |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Sept 6, 2019 8:40:53 GMT 1
The Terrier Identity of David Wagner was a unique thing. Since he left it's been proven that It's a Hard Life being a football manager when all your players are about as fit as Fat Bottomed Girls.
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Post by terriers321 on Sept 6, 2019 8:45:59 GMT 1
Watching a completely different game to me then. We were not playing well in that Brighton match before the sending off. Saying the sending off of a player who couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo was a turning point in our season is delusional and a deflection tactic from the Wagner can do no wrong fanboys. So you dont think us going down to 10 men has a bearing on the result?? Also.. If as a town fan you arnt a wagner fan then thas wrong in head.. It could of definitely had a bearing on the result yeah. But it wasn't a defining factor in how we went on for the rest of the season and relegation. Look I loved Wagner and what he did. But I felt it was the right time for him to go, unfortunately the wrong replacement was made. I just think we need to move on from the whole Wagner thing now. Let's hope the new man can string some results together. |
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Post by Amigo on Sept 6, 2019 8:56:13 GMT 1
Bollox.. Brighton barely got in our half until mounie got sent off.. They then equalised with last kick in 1st half injury time after bruno kept in a long ball over the top which i think had gone out of play but linesman didnt give.. Watching a completely different game to me then. We were not playing well in that Brighton match before the sending off. Saying the sending off of a player who couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo was a turning point in our season is delusional and a deflection tactic from the Wagner can do no wrong fanboys. The "Wagner can do not wrong fanboys"? You mean Huddersfield Town supporters? Mounie was actually playing well at the time, he'd missed a few half chances in games leading up to that match but he was getting in good positions and his all round game was actually very good. I guess it's a lot easier to just say he was shit all season though. |
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Post by specialun on Sept 6, 2019 9:04:53 GMT 1
What position were we before we played Brighton at home and watched the Michael Oliver show? Weâd just got 7 points from 9.... werenât we 14th? Wagner continued to work miracles until late 18 It amuses me how he was criticised for changing his style - we had a wage bill ÂŁ15m lower then any other team first year - ÂŁ288k a week lower. Wagner the best out of the players and more until we lost Mooy, his replacement Williams and Mounies red Fitter..... organised, disciplined, smart, driven, together, spirit etc. Not just fitter and belief If anyone still cannot see how much Wagner overachieved with the team he had available in promotion season, staying up season and even the season we got relegated I give in If more of you appreciated that youâd have know pre season the squad we had would have been in the bottom half.... you didnât. Most somehow persuade yourselves we might be near the top 6. Deluded! Most started to believe the extraordinary was the ordinary... and some of you still do! The promotion team - average championship team The team that stayed up - average championship team and a bit more With anyone but Wagner in charge both teams would have finished, at best, mid table championship Wagner made the sum better than its parts. To go up, stay up and be where were end of Nov 18 were miracles Our record since he left P24 W1 D2 L21 1 point from the next nine, 8 losses and 1 draw. Then he left I believe. Where any team is at the end of November is irrelevant. You said âWhen the belief had gone, and everybody else was at least as fit as us, we were never in the running under the guyâ So are you saying at the end of November we were fitter than everyone else hence we reached 14th... And then in December everyone caught up on the turn of their advent calendar and we couldnât complete? Iâd expect you arenât The end of November is relevant - we were 14th and 1 nil up. Thereâs a reason we fell away so much That Brighton game was demoralising but knackering - We played 60 mins with 10 men with 2 games in 6 days after I believe... but more importantly lost our best player, then his replacement and a thin squad with minimal true premier league quality was exposed. Wagnerâs ability to get the most out of a poor premier league squad relied on a small number of key players, Mooy was one. Heâd done that again until November but he lost him and a decent replacement and Wagner couldnât continue to over achieve ... reality set in |
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Post by royrace on Sept 6, 2019 12:48:45 GMT 1
Why do people use the Mounie sending off as some sort of change in our season. We might of scored early but Brighton were the better team before the sending off anyway and Mounie was bloody useless when he was on the pitch that season. Selective memories going on here I think and all this "fine margins" bollocks, we didn't do enough in most of the games during the first half of the season, having all the ball but doing fuck all with it doesn't entitle you to win games. Let's just admit it, we were poor and offered sod all up front. The performance away at Arsenal summed us up, no idea up front and one stupid mistake at the back led to the 1-0 loss. Did we even have a shot on target against Arsenal? Yes but we're now losing 2-1 away to Luton! We were short on quality up front because we bought three league one/two wingers but our general play was often very good, if you can control a game, compete in midfield and keep possession you're not far away. If we'd have been in touch come Jan we would likely have strengthened. If we'd played at the level of early last season this season we'd be top 6 comfortably imo. The difference is Wagner and Mooy in equal measures, we had no choice in the former and chose to loan the latter. Now we cant compete against a team who were non league very recently and whose squad value is a tiny fraction of ours. |
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