|
Post by kennyk2 on Jan 5, 2020 11:18:11 GMT 1
All discussion regarding finances can be posted here. This will hopefully stop other threads getting cluttered up with this topic.
Rather than laboriously move every post concerning finance currently on the Transfer thread, I've left them where they are. The main discussion of this is on that thread, pages 52-55.
|
|
|
Post by southowram on Jan 5, 2020 11:40:44 GMT 1
1. Where has all the money gone? 2. Compared to the rest of the championship, what are our wages and contract commitments? 3. What parachute money will we get next year?
|
|
ram
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,443
|
Post by ram on Jan 5, 2020 11:57:21 GMT 1
if Rubery got his brass back,I want my share certificates honoured.I still have em framed on my hallway wall.
|
|
Solihull Terrier
Andy Booth Terrier
Juvat Impigros Deus
Posts: 3,833
Member is Online
|
Post by Solihull Terrier on Jan 5, 2020 12:12:58 GMT 1
I was also under the impression that he had written off quite a bit of brass, The conundrum being that if he did call it in we could go under as we couldn't possibly pay him and carry on.
That was always my understanding too. Rubery gets a bad rap from some Town fans but he didn’t seem to have much idea how to run a football club, hence the reason he brought that little turd Ian Ayre with him. And wasn’t it down to Bruce we sold Stewart? You'd both be wrong then, nothing underhand and it's not particularly hidden. Explained it before on here but... The loan agreement under which he provided the money to Town contained a wise clause. If we ever went into his administration the amount owed to him would double in value. That's a matter of public record and was reported at the time. Why would he do that given he'd never get it back? Because if the money owed was lost due to administration then he could use the debt amount as a tax allowable deduction. He would have paid a tax rate of circa 50% at the time therefore the saving to him of half the final debt matched the amount he'd ultimately put into the club. Very shrewd. Edit - hadn't seen the post about the finance thread when I wrote this. Be glad to see this thread back on topic though!
|
|
|
Post by royrace on Jan 5, 2020 12:26:44 GMT 1
I guess when you boil it right down the club is £100M light of what it should be.
Half due to the deal done between Dean and Phil which rather than pay Dean a fair price the purchase was facilitated by Phil agreeing to pay back Deans 'debt'. I guess this could be construed as Phil using the parachute money to buy the club.
Other half wasted on players who aren't offering any value on the pitch and who's value is close to zero or worse.
That seems to be why we're skint despite recently trousering over £200M with more to come.
Someone can probably give a way better explanation but that's my very basic summing up as I understand it. Very disappointing really. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards
|
|
|
Post by dirtysteve on Jan 5, 2020 12:27:23 GMT 1
1. Where has all the money gone? 2. Compared to the rest of the championship, what are our wages and contract commitments? 3. What parachute money will we get next year? 1. On shite. 2. Too much 3. Zilch.
|
|
|
Post by artysid on Jan 5, 2020 12:31:44 GMT 1
I'd also guess a lot of the players who got us promoted and are still here, are now on a higher basic salary than they were in the promotion year, despite the relegation clause.
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Jan 5, 2020 12:51:21 GMT 1
I was also under the impression that he had written off quite a bit of brass, The conundrum being that if he did call it in we could go under as we couldn't possibly pay him and carry on.
That was always my understanding too. Rubery gets a bad rap from some Town fans but he didn’t seem to have much idea how to run a football club, hence the reason he brought that little turd Ian Ayre with him. And wasn’t it down to Bruce we sold Stewart? Nope, it was down to Trevor Cherry
|
|
|
Post by linson on Jan 5, 2020 13:07:44 GMT 1
Nobody cares about historical finances on this thread.
|
|
zoso
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,985
|
Post by zoso on Jan 5, 2020 13:16:07 GMT 1
I always thought it was BR that insisted on the sale of Marcus Stewart to recoup as much of his money that he could before he went? Could be wrong mind
|
|
|
Post by Detective Boyle on Jan 5, 2020 13:28:33 GMT 1
Where is the Billing money? Has that gone straight to Dean or is it available in the transfer kitty?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 13:41:07 GMT 1
So did Barry get his money back or not ? Ex Dubs is saying he did, And received 4 times as much back as he initially put in !
Even with the explanation from the accountant I fail to see how he got it from us, I take it he ripped the tax man off as I cannot recall either of the two successful businessmen who have been recent owners ever saying " and we owe Barry this much this year "
And as someone else previously stated regarding a share, I remember my Dad dipping into his pocket to help Town out in the mid 80s ish, along with a load of others, Pretty sure he received a share certificate and an away trip on a luxury coach for his brass, Was it called the Patrons ?
|
|
|
Post by impact on Jan 5, 2020 13:47:41 GMT 1
I'd have thought finances and transfers go hand in hand myself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 13:57:57 GMT 1
So the new chairman has spent or will do, Fifty million for a three quarter share in the name Huddersfield Town and a few players ?
Doesn't own the stadium, Doesn't own the training ground.
Hoyle would still be my hero if he had taken back, Say 30M of his debt and at least left us with a bit in the kitty.
|
|
|
Post by football on Jan 5, 2020 14:10:51 GMT 1
Where is the Billing money? Has that gone straight to Dean or is it available in the transfer kitty? I think it had been mention by PH that the first payments of the Billing and Tommy Smith transfers went straight to the Taxman.
|
|
|
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jan 5, 2020 14:16:00 GMT 1
So the new chairman has spent or will do, Fifty million for a three quarter share in the name Huddersfield Town and a few players ? Doesn't own the stadium, Doesn't own the training ground. Hoyle would still be my hero if he had taken back, Say 30M of his debt and at least left us with a bit in the kitty. Other than what was reported in the last set of accounts, I've yet to see any concrete evidence that Hoyle has taken back the reported £50m that he's supposedly owed. Until somebody can pinpoint to the evidence, then for me its just pure speculation.
|
|
|
Post by football on Jan 5, 2020 14:20:07 GMT 1
And as someone else previously stated regarding a share, I remember my Dad dipping into his pocket to help Town out in the mid 80s ish, along with a load of others, Pretty sure he received a share certificate
I've got one somewhere. I think there was supposed to be a frame somewhere with the names of the people who gave, has anyone seen it? Don't think they mean anything as didn't that company go under?
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 5, 2020 17:01:31 GMT 1
Where is the Billing money? Has that gone straight to Dean or is it available in the transfer kitty? I think it had been mention by PH that the first payments of the Billing and Tommy Smith transfers went straight to the Taxman. Mentioned where? you need profits to pay corporation tax and other taxes relate to employment and should be paid monthly.
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 5, 2020 17:03:11 GMT 1
So the new chairman has spent or will do, Fifty million for a three quarter share in the name Huddersfield Town and a few players ? Doesn't own the stadium, Doesn't own the training ground. Hoyle would still be my hero if he had taken back, Say 30M of his debt and at least left us with a bit in the kitty. Other than what was reported in the last set of accounts, I've yet to see any concrete evidence that Hoyle has taken back the reported £50m that he's supposedly owed. Until somebody can pinpoint to the evidence, then for me its just pure speculation. Somebody bank rolled us before the promotion year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 17:14:37 GMT 1
So the new chairman has spent or will do, Fifty million for a three quarter share in the name Huddersfield Town and a few players ? Doesn't own the stadium, Doesn't own the training ground. Hoyle would still be my hero if he had taken back, Say 30M of his debt and at least left us with a bit in the kitty. Other than what was reported in the last set of accounts, I've yet to see any concrete evidence that Hoyle has taken back the reported £50m that he's supposedly owed. Until somebody can pinpoint to the evidence, then for me its just pure speculation. correct and there is plenty of speculation on this site
|
|
|
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jan 5, 2020 17:16:32 GMT 1
Other than what was reported in the last set of accounts, I've yet to see any concrete evidence that Hoyle has taken back the reported £50m that he's supposedly owed. Until somebody can pinpoint to the evidence, then for me its just pure speculation. Somebody bank rolled us before the promotion year. I'm not doubting for a second that he loaned us a shed load of money, but the point I'm making is that I've seen no evidence that he's demanded his £50m (if that is the figure) back, as some are arguing as being a fact. He may want his brass back but some folk are alluding to the fact that we're skint as a result, without producing any evidence to back the claims up.
|
|
|
Post by impact on Jan 5, 2020 17:38:13 GMT 1
I think it had been mention by PH that the first payments of the Billing and Tommy Smith transfers went straight to the Taxman. Mentioned where? you need profits to pay corporation tax and other taxes relate to employment and should be paid monthly. He said it on the "and he takes that chance" podcast, but it made no sense whatsoever. He claimed we had to pay corporation tax on each of them as it was profit (due to them being 0 on the balance sheet). However, corporation tax is paid on the entire company's profits not individual items. I am unsure if capital gains tax has to be paid on players when they are sold given they are treated as assets, however.
|
|
|
Post by frankslegs on Jan 5, 2020 17:47:35 GMT 1
Next accounts due in max three months so can all analyse then.Could be interesting reading.....
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 5, 2020 17:48:30 GMT 1
Mentioned where? you need profits to pay corporation tax and other taxes relate to employment and should be paid monthly. He said it on the "and he takes that chance" podcast, but it made no sense whatsoever. He claimed we had to pay corporation tax on each of them as it was profit (due to them being 0 on the balance sheet). However, corporation tax is paid on the entire company's profits not individual items. I am unsure if capital gains tax has to be paid on players when they are sold given they are treated as assets, however. They should go through the corporation computation at the end of that accounting period and will be offset by capital losses in about 4 weeks. In fact the same accounting period? and not due for a long time. On the whole not a credible response by PH if the quote is correct.
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 5, 2020 17:52:10 GMT 1
Somebody bank rolled us before the promotion year. I'm not doubting for a second that he loaned us a shed load of money, but the point I'm making is that I've seen no evidence that he's demanded his £50m (if that is the figure) back, as some are arguing as being a fact. He may want his brass back but some folk are alluding to the fact that we're skint as a result, without producing any evidence to back the claims up. sorry pal didn't get that meaning. But you are right. There is some amateurish offensive drivel spouted on here about Dean when people know nothing. I still trust Dean.
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 5, 2020 17:54:19 GMT 1
Next accounts due in max three months so can all analyse then.Could be interesting reading..... I have been working with accounts for 44 years and systematically less and less information can be derived from statutory accounts. People disclose what they wish to, auditors are now virtually worthless (on the whole).
|
|
|
Post by frankslegs on Jan 5, 2020 18:12:58 GMT 1
Point made of course- my own accounts of my main limited company are signed off Unaudited but nevertheless it will still show KPI,s
|
|
|
Post by Mr Breitside on Jan 5, 2020 18:52:19 GMT 1
Stated at some point by Phil that the wage bill this year would be double that of the time we were last in the championship, therefore approx £22m.
Wasnt there a debenture that appeared in our last financials that was supposed to relate to Hoyle ? Cant remember how much for.
|
|
|
Post by Million Dollar Babies on Jan 5, 2020 20:40:21 GMT 1
Somebody bank rolled us before the promotion year. I'm not doubting for a second that he loaned us a shed load of money, but the point I'm making is that I've seen no evidence that he's demanded his £50m (if that is the figure) back, as some are arguing as being a fact. He may want his brass back but some folk are alluding to the fact that we're skint as a result, without producing any evidence to back the claims up. Surely the evidence being that we hardly spent anything in the summer and we're relying on loans this window. Imagine for a second that Dean hadn't sold the club, our current financial position would look something like: 1st Parachute payment: £45 million Players sold: £25 million approx Players bought: £12 million approx Wage bill: £25 million approx There would be plenty of money knocking around to ensure we got out of this relegation fight. Instead we're having to bring kids in on loan There's clearly a large sum which is having to be paid to Dean as part of the agreement to sell the club which is coming out of the clubs funds.
|
|
|
Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jan 5, 2020 21:28:17 GMT 1
I'm not doubting for a second that he loaned us a shed load of money, but the point I'm making is that I've seen no evidence that he's demanded his £50m (if that is the figure) back, as some are arguing as being a fact. He may want his brass back but some folk are alluding to the fact that we're skint as a result, without producing any evidence to back the claims up. sorry pal didn't get that meaning. But you are right. There is some amateurish offensive drivel spouted on here about Dean when people know nothing. I still trust Dean. Why do you? If he has, as is suspected and surmised on here, that he has taken his money back in a big chunk that has hamstrung the club financially then if this is actually proven he will have lost a lot of goodwill from a lot of Town fans. Not saying he isn't entitled to his money back but don't bloody hamstring the club in doing so.
|
|