mallyb
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Post by mallyb on Jan 13, 2020 14:37:19 GMT 1
250m and people here clamoring to sign a 36 year old and you still defend Hoyle and Potless We literally have nobody lined up after 1 year of KNOWING we would be in the championship and making tens of millions on sales. The blind masses strike again Ok. We all accept that we messed our Prem visit up. Fine. What do you think all us blind masses should do then? What do you suggest we all do? Mass protests through the Town centre perhaps? Turn our backs to the football matches? We all stay away from the games? How do we go about ejecting 'Potless Phil' out of the club? And who out of the huge choice of multi billionaires just waiting in the wings, do we choose to replace him? And let's not forget Dean Hoyle. Burn an effigy of him outside the ground, chanting "burn you Bastard burn?". Because let's be honest, he's done fuck all for this club hasn't he? Just what do you want us all to do about what has happened? Tell us, please do. Because I'm sick to death of reading your boring fucking moaning posts on here. If you think you can turn back time and make it so we didn't make errors, crack on. But it's done. It's over. It happened. Just deal with it, and start getting behind what's currently happening. And if you can't, you know what you can do. 12 months ago there was an acceptance that we were going down and that we shouldn't spend any money, save it for the 'summer war chest'. Any dissenting voice told to stop watching town. Then in summer we didn't spend any money even though it was the first of the 3 transfer windows needed to refresh the squad. We are now deep into the second window and very little is happening. A 36 year old a prem loan, possibly another prem loan, no real squad building. Again anybody not happy with this told to get lost. Anybody not happy with Dean squandering the prem money then getting every penny invested back told to get lost. Some fans are happy with crowds sub 10K and town in the lower leagues. The only people I know that want that for town really support other teams. What can we do? We hold the club to account, we ask questions like why Dean got all his money back having had the fun of spending millions without any risk and without moving the club forward 1 little bit. Why the parachute payments are being used to buy the club. Why the secrecy around the details of the sale if nothing to hide? Everybody knows what Derby and Wednesday paid for their stadiums. Seems obvious now that the billionaires that were interested last year were to savvy to offer Dean a deal where he walked away with every penny.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jan 13, 2020 14:48:26 GMT 1
Ok. We all accept that we messed our Prem visit up. Fine. What do you think all us blind masses should do then? What do you suggest we all do? Mass protests through the Town centre perhaps? Turn our backs to the football matches? We all stay away from the games? How do we go about ejecting 'Potless Phil' out of the club? And who out of the huge choice of multi billionaires just waiting in the wings, do we choose to replace him? And let's not forget Dean Hoyle. Burn an effigy of him outside the ground, chanting "burn you Bastard burn?". Because let's be honest, he's done fuck all for this club hasn't he? Just what do you want us all to do about what has happened? Tell us, please do. Because I'm sick to death of reading your boring fucking moaning posts on here. If you think you can turn back time and make it so we didn't make errors, crack on. But it's done. It's over. It happened. Just deal with it, and start getting behind what's currently happening. And if you can't, you know what you can do. 12 months ago there was an acceptance that we were going down and that we shouldn't spend any money, save it for the 'summer war chest'. Any dissenting voice told to stop watching town. Then in summer we didn't spend any money even though it was the first of the 3 transfer windows needed to refresh the squad. We are now deep into the second window and very little is happening. A 36 year old a prem loan, possibly another prem loan, no real squad building. Again anybody not happy with this told to get lost. Anybody not happy with Dean squandering the prem money then getting every penny invested back told to get lost. Some fans are happy with crowds sub 10K and town in the lower leagues. The only people I know that want that for town really support other teams. What can we do? We hold the club to account, we ask questions like why Dean got all his money back having had the fun of spending millions without any risk and without moving the club forward 1 little bit. Why the parachute payments are being used to buy the club. Why the secrecy around the details of the sale if nothing to hide? Everybody knows what Derby and Wednesday paid for their stadiums. Seems obvious now that the billionaires that were interested last year were to savvy to offer Dean a deal where he walked away with every penny. Keep asking, no one is telling. When you have done pissing in the wind make your mind up about buying a season card next season. Its football and you do get to vote with your feet and your money. I guess if the home crowd continually booed a certain player you might feel you have affected the team selection but yours and mine effect on the club is minimal.
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 13, 2020 15:06:51 GMT 1
You really are a bit of a knob aren't you. Apart from having no actual facts to base your stupid comnents on, he got most of his money out of Card factory when he sold it. Just for you and the other hard of understanding. He only bought the club because he had the money from selling his business. He invested £50m of HIS money and got us in to the premier league. It might not have gone as we hoped it would, but he spent half of last year on deaths door, and you slag him of on hear for ALEDGEDLY taking his money back at a point when we can most afford it. FFS I am totally aware that selling his business will have given him money to buy the club. This is a forum for discussion, some factual, some speculative, some informed, some not. I cannot therefore fully understand the aggression and rudeness in your post to me. So, you are well aware that his money came from selling the card factory 10 years ago. But choose to infer that he might have "jumped from a sinking ship" just in time and equated it with selling Town after being seriously ill. And you wonder why my post was aggressive? Words fail me.
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Maynardblue
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Post by Maynardblue on Jan 13, 2020 15:12:08 GMT 1
I know we're desperate for more players but I think we'll need to clear afew more out before we can bring anyone else in. The wages alone for Kongolo, Diakhaby & Mbenza will be astronomical for this division. Our wage bill is far lower than the first parachute payment. It shouldn't have been a problem but the terms of takeover have caused it to be Not the terms of the takeover, DH was calling in his loans irrespective of whether the club was sold or not- so either way the parachute money was spoken for.
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by mallyb on Jan 13, 2020 15:14:29 GMT 1
12 months ago there was an acceptance that we were going down and that we shouldn't spend any money, save it for the 'summer war chest'. Any dissenting voice told to stop watching town. Then in summer we didn't spend any money even though it was the first of the 3 transfer windows needed to refresh the squad. We are now deep into the second window and very little is happening. A 36 year old a prem loan, possibly another prem loan, no real squad building. Again anybody not happy with this told to get lost. Anybody not happy with Dean squandering the prem money then getting every penny invested back told to get lost. Some fans are happy with crowds sub 10K and town in the lower leagues. The only people I know that want that for town really support other teams. What can we do? We hold the club to account, we ask questions like why Dean got all his money back having had the fun of spending millions without any risk and without moving the club forward 1 little bit. Why the parachute payments are being used to buy the club. Why the secrecy around the details of the sale if nothing to hide? Everybody knows what Derby and Wednesday paid for their stadiums. Seems obvious now that the billionaires that were interested last year were to savvy to offer Dean a deal where he walked away with every penny. Fine. We ask questions. That's fair, as some very important questions need answering. But if we don't get the answers we are after, what then? What if we didn't like what we were told? What action could we take? I was asking Potless Phil as he keeps going on that no one listens/listened to him. If we had, what good would it have done. I suppose I'm trying to say what's happened has happened. Mistakes have been made. It can't be undone. We are where we are. And we have to deal with that. It's not ideal no, but the only other option is to sack the club off and seek some other free time interest, which I'd never do and I'm sure others wouldn't either. It can't be undone, but the club need to learn lessons from these mistakes and they don't seem to be learning or even sticking to what they said. At the minute anybody asks a question on here is told to bore off as if asking these questions makes you not a true supporter. Lack of accountability in anything can lead to complacency and errors. I would never have believed Dean would behaved the way he has done 5 years ago. Even the way he invested made no sense. To not get 1 big money signing right and be relegated with a weaker squad and unable to compete in the transfer market is criminal. The exodus of supporters will begin with the next season card issue and we can call them any names we want but we need them, and their money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 15:18:57 GMT 1
Our wage bill is far lower than the first parachute payment. It shouldn't have been a problem but the terms of takeover have caused it to be Not the terms of the takeover, DH was calling in his loans irrespective of whether the club was sold or not- so either way the parachute money was spoken for. So was he calling it in to pay for Canalside upgrade which he owns outright .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 15:22:46 GMT 1
Our wage bill is far lower than the first parachute payment. It shouldn't have been a problem but the terms of takeover have caused it to be Not the terms of the takeover, DH was calling in his loans irrespective of whether the club was sold or not- so either way the parachute money was spoken for. So asset wise we neither own our ground or our training facilities. We are reliant on Championship TV money and revenue with a hugely over budget squad, unsustainable wages and an owner who, at this moment in time, has insufficient personal funds to bridge the gap. The sooner the club acknowledges this and stops inferring otherwise the better, otherwise we will just lose the trust of the fan base. Season ticket sales will be a car crash if they continue to let the ambiguity between past promises and the current reality persist.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 13, 2020 15:24:23 GMT 1
The fact that the club banged on about how all players had relegation clauses to reduce their wages and ‘no one will need to be sold’ is a clue. Then we were bought and we sold/lost a large number of high earners yet we are now over budget. We sold Smith (£4m), Billing (£15m), Zanka (£3m?) VLP (£1m) & Lowe (£500k?), will have got loan fees for Mooy, Brown, Hamer & Sobhi and released Durm, Sabiri, Depoitre, Williams, Lossl & Puncheon. Something changed the size of the cash flow we have to play with. We’ve signed journeymen and non-league kids with 2 loaners from the PL. Either we were spun a sack of shit to buy season tickets or the terms of the sale have scuppered us. This is a no brainer isnt it surely, does anyone seriously think we would be over budget based on what we spent in the PL, who we have let go and the parachute payments we're due?!?!? Basic maths suggests there's a massive hole and it seems its in the shape of Deans loan or the money needed to purchase the club depending on how you want to look at it. I assume the comments about the club being in a good state, no-one needs to be sold etc were based on the fact they probably expected to sell 2 of Mounie, Kongolo, Mbenza, Diakhaby and Phil was pretty sure the squad was in good shape and we had some quality players who were just low on confidence. Laughable now but I think they genuinely thought the club was sat on £50M+ of talent, harsh realisation now is that those assets are actually liabilities and need replacing with free transfers just to try to avoid relegation. Seems we're £50M down on where we should be and thats before you write off Diakbenza, Kongolo etc. Isn't that why we're skint? Getting rid of Jan plus two of his assistantsand bringing in Cowles wouldnt have been cheap either but a drop in the ocean compared to the PL money we've had and are receiving for the next 3 years. I do numbers for a living and have done for over 40 years. Not trying to show off but it gets under my skin when people make naive assumption. In short a budget: - It is constructed on assumptions that may or may not be correct, we the fans did our bit by buying season tickets & merchandise.
- A budget produces an end production, to make a profit or increase a profit by certain criteria. Equally to reduce losses etc
- It could be to generate a certain amount of cash
- Budgets are some times constructed optimistically to "aid" a sale or "help" finance some extraordinary activity
- It will include cup runs, league position finish,running costs, transfer income / expenditure et
- If any of the above variables aren't achieved all the other elements can lead you to be "over budget"
This budget game falls under the dark arts skill set. You can be a sound business and in stable condition and never meet a budget/Target. In my experience the number of budgets that are met or beaten are probably around 25-35%.
Phil is a business man not a communicator (and it shows), he was talking finance to supporters, never a good idea.
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4 pts
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Post by 4 pts on Jan 13, 2020 15:39:48 GMT 1
12 months ago there was an acceptance that we were going down and that we shouldn't spend any money, save it for the 'summer war chest'. Any dissenting voice told to stop watching town. Then in summer we didn't spend any money even though it was the first of the 3 transfer windows needed to refresh the squad. We are now deep into the second window and very little is happening. A 36 year old a prem loan, possibly another prem loan, no real squad building. Again anybody not happy with this told to get lost. Anybody not happy with Dean squandering the prem money then getting every penny invested back told to get lost. Some fans are happy with crowds sub 10K and town in the lower leagues. The only people I know that want that for town really support other teams. What can we do? We hold the club to account, we ask questions like why Dean got all his money back having had the fun of spending millions without any risk and without moving the club forward 1 little bit. Why the parachute payments are being used to buy the club. Why the secrecy around the details of the sale if nothing to hide? Everybody knows what Derby and Wednesday paid for their stadiums. Seems obvious now that the billionaires that were interested last year were to savvy to offer Dean a deal where he walked away with every penny. Fine. We ask questions. That's fair, as some very important questions need answering. But if we don't get the answers we are after, what then? What if we didn't like what we were told? What action could we take? I was asking Potless Phil as he keeps going on that no one listens/listened to him. If we had, what good would it have done. I suppose I'm trying to say what's happened has happened. Mistakes have been made. It can't be undone. We are where we are. And we have to deal with that. It's not ideal no, but the only other option is to sack the club off and seek some other free time interest, which I'd never do and I'm sure others wouldn't either. Bang on, but this is a forum and I for one do not see a problem in people venting there concerns. Don't get me wrong, there are a couple that seem extremely naive and childish in their approach, but most do have extremely valid reasons to be upset by our current situation. I agree there isn't anything WE can physically do to change it but that shouldn't stop folk from having the debate. Just out of interest, does anyone remember DH making a we're in the money gesture to one his friends just behind Tommy Smith and Hudson before they lifted the trophy.......good times, good times
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Jan 13, 2020 17:31:34 GMT 1
The fact that the club banged on about how all players had relegation clauses to reduce their wages and ‘no one will need to be sold’ is a clue. Then we were bought and we sold/lost a large number of high earners yet we are now over budget. We sold Smith (£4m), Billing (£15m), Zanka (£3m?) VLP (£1m) & Lowe (£500k?), will have got loan fees for Mooy, Brown, Hamer & Sobhi and released Durm, Sabiri, Depoitre, Williams, Lossl & Puncheon. Something changed the size of the cash flow we have to play with. We’ve signed journeymen and non-league kids with 2 loaners from the PL. Either we were spun a sack of shit to buy season tickets or the terms of the sale have scuppered us. Again, not a source a supposition. I hear the logic in your argument but its still not a source. Its a reasonable guess but that's all. Maybe not the terms of the takeover then given Maynardblue has confirmed Dean was already recalling his loans. The fact remains: £90 million incoming over the 3 seasons following relegation We've already received upwards of £25 million in transfer fees this season (yes I know it isn't all paid in one lump sum) We've only spent about £12 million and most of that was on Mbenza (but again it's paid over 3 or 4 years) Soon to receive good money for Mooy, Grant and Kongolo. This will be in excess of £35 million. Wage bill this season £25 million tops. Next season it'll be 60% of that and likely a further drop in 2021/22 So say for instance that we didn't sign or sell another player in that time period aside from those mentioned (hypothetical obviously) we would have a surplus of approx £80 million. I've no idea how much Dean is taking back but it's clear that it is this which is causing us to be "over budget"
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Post by iangreaves on Jan 13, 2020 17:34:44 GMT 1
In the summer PH said we didn’t need to sell players. Since then we have sold quite a few - some for decent money - and got rid of the wages of quite a few others. Can someone explain to me how we are suddenly over budget?
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Post by royrace on Jan 13, 2020 17:40:12 GMT 1
This is a no brainer isnt it surely, does anyone seriously think we would be over budget based on what we spent in the PL, who we have let go and the parachute payments we're due?!?!? Basic maths suggests there's a massive hole and it seems its in the shape of Deans loan or the money needed to purchase the club depending on how you want to look at it. I assume the comments about the club being in a good state, no-one needs to be sold etc were based on the fact they probably expected to sell 2 of Mounie, Kongolo, Mbenza, Diakhaby and Phil was pretty sure the squad was in good shape and we had some quality players who were just low on confidence. Laughable now but I think they genuinely thought the club was sat on £50M+ of talent, harsh realisation now is that those assets are actually liabilities and need replacing with free transfers just to try to avoid relegation. Seems we're £50M down on where we should be and thats before you write off Diakbenza, Kongolo etc. Isn't that why we're skint? Getting rid of Jan plus two of his assistantsand bringing in Cowles wouldnt have been cheap either but a drop in the ocean compared to the PL money we've had and are receiving for the next 3 years. I do numbers for a living and have done for over 40 years. Not trying to show off but it gets under my skin when people make naive assumption. In short a budget: - It is constructed on assumptions that may or may not be correct, we the fans did our bit by buying season tickets & merchandise.
- A budget produces an end production, to make a profit or increase a profit by certain criteria. Equally to reduce losses etc
- It could be to generate a certain amount of cash
- Budgets are some times constructed optimistically to "aid" a sale or "help" finance some extraordinary activity
- It will include cup runs, league position finish,running costs, transfer income / expenditure et
- If any of the above variables aren't achieved all the other elements can lead you to be "over budget"
This budget game falls under the dark arts skill set. You can be a sound business and in stable condition and never meet a budget/Target. In my experience the number of budgets that are met or beaten are probably around 25-35%.
Phil is a business man not a communicator (and it shows), he was talking finance to supporters, never a good idea. ...and your point is what? (I'm not meaning to sound arsey, its a genuine question and what's the 'naive assumption'?) The simple point made earlier by someone was that the parachute payment should be more than enough to cover the wages of our players including the wasters and thats before we even consider some of the fees for Billing et al, I think those of us who can be bothered thinking about it are a little bit curious as to how we're over budget. My guess is the budget was way lower than it ordinarily would be because we're £50M down but we have to guess because nothing has been communicated about the terms of the sale etc. I think we all get the fact that budgets can change but money from a cup run for example is a drop in the ocean in comparison to parachute payments. If someone could sum up the situation with a few figures we could just accept our lot and accept the situation, as it stands its all a bit puzzling to anyone who knows how the club was run in the PL and the message that was drummed into supporters about not over spending and securing the clubs future. In my simple head it seems any legacy and long term benefit a football club gets from a season or two in the PL has been taken away and all we have to show for it are memories; obviously way better than nothing but not what any of us were expecting, especially since we spent the 2 years shopping in the bargain basement and buying sub standard players, it wasn't exactly boom or bust. Often the most obvious conclusion is the correct one; in simplistic terms it seems Dean sold the club to someone who couldn't really afford it which is fair enough if there were no other suitors and even if there were its his decision.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Jan 13, 2020 17:43:03 GMT 1
Come on we need a few more transfer windows before we can get it right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 17:44:25 GMT 1
Again, not a source a supposition. I hear the logic in your argument but its still not a source. Its a reasonable guess but that's all. Maybe not the terms of the takeover then given Maynardblue has confirmed Dean was already recalling his loans. The fact remains: £90 million incoming over the 3 seasons following relegation We've already received upwards of £25 million in transfer fees this season (yes I know it isn't all paid in one lump sum) We've only spent about £12 million and most of that was on Mbenza (but again it's paid over 3 or 4 years) Soon to receive good money for Mooy, Grant and Kongolo. This will be in excess of £35 million. Wage bill this season £25 million tops. Next season it'll be 60% of that and likely a further drop in 2021/22 So say for instance that we didn't sign or sell another player in that time period aside from those mentioned (hypothetical obviously) we would have a surplus of approx £80 million. I've no idea how much Dean is taking back but it's clear that it is this which is causing us to be "over budget" “Soon to receive good money for Mooy, Grant and Kongolo. This will be in excess of £35 million” Do what? 🤷♂️🤣🤣 Grant at the moment we’d be highly unlikely to receive any offer over £5m. Kongolo most likely if anything a loan fee covering his wages to summer, and then with a bit of luck eek out another loan fee in summer, as no chance we’re going to get the value in him...he’s a £10m player by virtue of his outstanding wage term, he’s a sub £5m player based on his last 12months performance. Mooy. Can’t be sold until summer...are we really going to get more than £10m offered?? (albeit it’s £10m we wouldn’t have got if he hadn’t signed his new contract before going on loan). I make that closer to £15m we’re likely to get across Mooy and Kongolo, we art going to release Grant for “only £5m”, so once we’ve paid Kongolo and Mooy out of contracts we’ve probably got about £5-£7m to splash!? (And I bet a million of that has already gone on getting the Arsenal kid on loan).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 17:49:30 GMT 1
Again, not a source a supposition. I hear the logic in your argument but its still not a source. Its a reasonable guess but that's all. Maybe not the terms of the takeover then given Maynardblue has confirmed Dean was already recalling his loans. The fact remains: £90 million incoming over the 3 seasons following relegation We've already received upwards of £25 million in transfer fees this season (yes I know it isn't all paid in one lump sum) We've only spent about £12 million and most of that was on Mbenza (but again it's paid over 3 or 4 years) Soon to receive good money for Mooy, Grant and Kongolo. This will be in excess of £35 million. Wage bill this season £25 million tops. Next season it'll be 60% of that and likely a further drop in 2021/22 So say for instance that we didn't sign or sell another player in that time period aside from those mentioned (hypothetical obviously) we would have a surplus of approx £80 million. I've no idea how much Dean is taking back but it's clear that it is this which is causing us to be "over budget" “Wage bill this season £25 million tops. Next season it'll be 60% of that and likely a further drop in 2021/22 “ Which be a pretty bad state...we’d be recieving around £15m in parachute that season which would cover the wage bill...but then what next?? The club becomes a hole eating itself all over and we see how long Phil can hold his nerve. You can be sure it will take more than £50m to get promoted as it effectively did last time given the massive slice of luck and timing involved.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jan 13, 2020 17:49:43 GMT 1
I do numbers for a living and have done for over 40 years. Not trying to show off but it gets under my skin when people make naive assumption. In short a budget: - It is constructed on assumptions that may or may not be correct, we the fans did our bit by buying season tickets & merchandise.
- A budget produces an end production, to make a profit or increase a profit by certain criteria. Equally to reduce losses etc
- It could be to generate a certain amount of cash
- Budgets are some times constructed optimistically to "aid" a sale or "help" finance some extraordinary activity
- It will include cup runs, league position finish,running costs, transfer income / expenditure et
- If any of the above variables aren't achieved all the other elements can lead you to be "over budget"
This budget game falls under the dark arts skill set. You can be a sound business and in stable condition and never meet a budget/Target. In my experience the number of budgets that are met or beaten are probably around 25-35%.
Phil is a business man not a communicator (and it shows), he was talking finance to supporters, never a good idea. ...and your point is what? (I'm not meaning to sound arsey, its a genuine question and what's the 'naive assumption'?) The simple point made earlier by someone was that the parachute payment should be more than enough to cover the wages of our players including the wasters and thats before we even consider some of the fees for Billing et al, I think those of us who can be bothered thinking about it are a little bit curious as to how we're over budget. My guess is the budget was way lower than it ordinarily would be because we're £50M down but we have to guess because nothing has been communicated about the terms of the sale etc. I think we all get the fact that budgets can change but money from a cup run for example is a drop in the ocean in comparison to parachute payments. If someone could sum up the situation with a few figures we could just accept our lot and accept the situation, as it stands its all a bit puzzling to anyone who knows how the club was run in the PL and the message that was drummed into supporters about not over spending and securing the clubs future. In my simple head it seems any legacy and long term benefit a football club gets from a season or two in the PL has been taken away and all we have to show for it are memories; obviously way better than nothing but not what any of us were expecting, especially since we spent the 2 years shopping in the bargain basement and buying sub standard players, it wasn't exactly boom or bust. Often the most obvious conclusion is the correct one; in simplistic terms it seems Dean sold the club to someone who couldn't really afford it which is fair enough if there were no other suitors and even if there were its his decision. I must have a simple head too because this is exactly how I see it also.
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Post by terriers321 on Jan 13, 2020 17:53:01 GMT 1
Again, not a source a supposition. I hear the logic in your argument but its still not a source. Its a reasonable guess but that's all. Maybe not the terms of the takeover then given Maynardblue has confirmed Dean was already recalling his loans. The fact remains: £90 million incoming over the 3 seasons following relegation We've already received upwards of £25 million in transfer fees this season (yes I know it isn't all paid in one lump sum) We've only spent about £12 million and most of that was on Mbenza (but again it's paid over 3 or 4 years) Soon to receive good money for Mooy, Grant and Kongolo. This will be in excess of £35 million. Wage bill this season £25 million tops. Next season it'll be 60% of that and likely a further drop in 2021/22 So say for instance that we didn't sign or sell another player in that time period aside from those mentioned (hypothetical obviously) we would have a surplus of approx £80 million. I've no idea how much Dean is taking back but it's clear that it is this which is causing us to be "over budget" If thats the case, which it seems to be. It looks like the business man in Hoyle has come out rather than the town fan and hes seen an opportunity and pretty much screwed the club in the process in what should be the strongest weve been in years. He will of never thought he was getting his money back. What chairman does. Nobody thought we were getting promoted, ever. But the promotion and premier money has provided that for him, while putting the club back to where we were before. If he wanted out due to illness then I respect that. I respect everything hes done prior for the club. But this has definitely put a sour note on what I thought of him.
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by wigster on Jan 13, 2020 18:22:31 GMT 1
I am totally aware that selling his business will have given him money to buy the club. This is a forum for discussion, some factual, some speculative, some informed, some not. I cannot therefore fully understand the aggression and rudeness in your post to me. So, you are well aware that his money came from selling the card factory 10 years ago. But choose to infer that he might have "jumped from a sinking ship" just in time and equated it with selling Town after being seriously ill. And you wonder why my post was aggressive? Words fail me. I think the posts on this page give you your answers, tocky - whether words fail you or not. Anyway let's just agree to disagree, and move on. We've all rehearsed this topic/the rumours on numerous occasions.
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4 pts
Steve Kindon Terrier
Posts: 1,627
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Post by 4 pts on Jan 13, 2020 19:59:25 GMT 1
Our wage bill is far lower than the first parachute payment. It shouldn't have been a problem but the terms of takeover have caused it to be Not the terms of the takeover, DH was calling in his loans irrespective of whether the club was sold or not- so either way the parachute money was spoken for. So the parachute money was used to pay DH ?
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jan 13, 2020 20:14:33 GMT 1
Not the terms of the takeover, DH was calling in his loans irrespective of whether the club was sold or not- so either way the parachute money was spoken for. So the parachute money was used to pay DH ? Looks like it basically. Doesn’t seem right if so. Just seems like a we are a toy that he’s had enough of now. Had my joy and adulation bye. But most don’t normally get their money back for the damaged toy,
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Maynardblue on Jan 13, 2020 20:15:48 GMT 1
No Dean is entitled to his money back. This is happening and is irrespective of any takeover. As I said Dean was getting his money back whether PH, Dean or Yankee Doodle was in charge
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jan 13, 2020 20:16:48 GMT 1
No Dean is entitled to his money back. This is happening and is irrespective of any takeover. As I said Dean was getting his money back whether PH, Dean or Yankee Doodle was in charge Entitled .
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King Curtis
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Bacon is good for me
Posts: 4,735
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Post by King Curtis on Jan 13, 2020 20:23:09 GMT 1
This is a no brainer isnt it surely, does anyone seriously think we would be over budget based on what we spent in the PL, who we have let go and the parachute payments we're due?!?!? Basic maths suggests there's a massive hole and it seems its in the shape of Deans loan or the money needed to purchase the club depending on how you want to look at it. I assume the comments about the club being in a good state, no-one needs to be sold etc were based on the fact they probably expected to sell 2 of Mounie, Kongolo, Mbenza, Diakhaby and Phil was pretty sure the squad was in good shape and we had some quality players who were just low on confidence. Laughable now but I think they genuinely thought the club was sat on £50M+ of talent, harsh realisation now is that those assets are actually liabilities and need replacing with free transfers just to try to avoid relegation. Seems we're £50M down on where we should be and thats before you write off Diakbenza, Kongolo etc. Isn't that why we're skint? Getting rid of Jan plus two of his assistantsand bringing in Cowles wouldnt have been cheap either but a drop in the ocean compared to the PL money we've had and are receiving for the next 3 years. I do numbers for a living and have done for over 40 years. Not trying to show off but it gets under my skin when people make naive assumption. In short a budget: - It is constructed on assumptions that may or may not be correct, we the fans did our bit by buying season tickets & merchandise.
- A budget produces an end production, to make a profit or increase a profit by certain criteria. Equally to reduce losses etc
- It could be to generate a certain amount of cash
- Budgets are some times constructed optimistically to "aid" a sale or "help" finance some extraordinary activity
- It will include cup runs, league position finish,running costs, transfer income / expenditure et
- If any of the above variables aren't achieved all the other elements can lead you to be "over budget"
This budget game falls under the dark arts skill set. You can be a sound business and in stable condition and never meet a budget/Target. In my experience the number of budgets that are met or beaten are probably around 25-35%.
Phil is a business man not a communicator (and it shows), he was talking finance to supporters, never a good idea. Well done Allan, you clearly do have an understanding of 'the budget game' and the variables that can affect whether you are performing under/over budget. However - there is 1 fixed sum of income (parachute payment) that should mean fluctuation in merchandise sales, cup runs etc. are largely irrelevant. In short - how the fuck are we operating on a shoestring transfer pot when we received £42.6 million from the PL?!
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jan 13, 2020 20:25:56 GMT 1
I have an issue if he's taking it back too quickly, whilst some of his appointments have proven to be really poor (or late!), but the tone and level of criticism from some is still a joke.
Soon forget the good things, whilst dwelling on the bad things like whiney bitches.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jan 13, 2020 20:30:55 GMT 1
I have an issue if he's taking it back too quickly, whilst some of his appointments have proven to be really poor (or late!), but the tone and level of criticism from some is still a joke. Soon forget the good things, whilst dwelling on the bad things like whiney bitches. So you can have an issue. But others are Whitney bitches.
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4 pts
Steve Kindon Terrier
Posts: 1,627
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Post by 4 pts on Jan 13, 2020 20:31:00 GMT 1
No Dean is entitled to his money back. This is happening and is irrespective of any takeover. As I said Dean was getting his money back whether PH, Dean or Yankee Doodle was in charge As I asked earlier Maynard and this isn't having a pop at you. Do you know if the money owed to DH is being paid back via parachute money ?
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 13, 2020 20:33:28 GMT 1
Again, not a source a supposition. I hear the logic in your argument but its still not a source. Its a reasonable guess but that's all. Maybe not the terms of the takeover then given Maynardblue has confirmed Dean was already recalling his loans. The fact remains: £90 million incoming over the 3 seasons following relegation We've already received upwards of £25 million in transfer fees this season (yes I know it isn't all paid in one lump sum) We've only spent about £12 million and most of that was on Mbenza (but again it's paid over 3 or 4 years) Soon to receive good money for Mooy, Grant and Kongolo. This will be in excess of £35 million. Wage bill this season £25 million tops. Next season it'll be 60% of that and likely a further drop in 2021/22 So say for instance that we didn't sign or sell another player in that time period aside from those mentioned (hypothetical obviously) we would have a surplus of approx £80 million. I've no idea how much Dean is taking back but it's clear that it is this which is causing us to be "over budget" Capital payments are not part of a revenue budget. These are the only factors you and others are guessing, there are potentially dozens of other factors.
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Post by Ibiza Town on Jan 13, 2020 20:35:06 GMT 1
No Dean is entitled to his money back. This is happening and is irrespective of any takeover. As I said Dean was getting his money back whether PH, Dean or Yankee Doodle was in charge Understood. But what would have happened with regards to the loan if we hadn't been promoted, or indeed, stayed up a second year? (genuine question, not a dig)
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 13, 2020 20:40:36 GMT 1
I do numbers for a living and have done for over 40 years. Not trying to show off but it gets under my skin when people make naive assumption. In short a budget: - It is constructed on assumptions that may or may not be correct, we the fans did our bit by buying season tickets & merchandise.
- A budget produces an end production, to make a profit or increase a profit by certain criteria. Equally to reduce losses etc
- It could be to generate a certain amount of cash
- Budgets are some times constructed optimistically to "aid" a sale or "help" finance some extraordinary activity
- It will include cup runs, league position finish,running costs, transfer income / expenditure et
- If any of the above variables aren't achieved all the other elements can lead you to be "over budget"
This budget game falls under the dark arts skill set. You can be a sound business and in stable condition and never meet a budget/Target. In my experience the number of budgets that are met or beaten are probably around 25-35%.
Phil is a business man not a communicator (and it shows), he was talking finance to supporters, never a good idea. Well done Allan, you clearly do have an understanding of 'the budget game' and the variables that can affect whether you are performing under/over budget. However - there is 1 fixed sum of income (parachute payment) that should mean fluctuation in merchandise sales, cup runs etc. are largely irrelevant. In short - how the fuck are we operating on a shoestring transfer pot when we received £42.6 million from the PL?! Did we budget to sell certain players who are very expensive to keep around doing sweet fa. My only contention with all the guessing is that people quote as fact. Very little of it is yet proven, we dont know what is on the financial horizon. The other variable is the tax situation of both parties, having briefly looked at pure legal accounts they may not be where the new owner thought they would be. In short we dont know and are very unlikely ever to find out. The one thing that is clear is that Dean is alife long fan with the club close to his heart.
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Posts: 1,524
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Post by Maynardblue on Jan 13, 2020 20:48:23 GMT 1
No Dean is entitled to his money back. This is happening and is irrespective of any takeover. As I said Dean was getting his money back whether PH, Dean or Yankee Doodle was in charge As I asked earlier Maynard and this isn't having a pop at you. Do you know if the money owed to DH is being paid back via parachute money ? DH is being repaid by the club over a short timeframe so given Parachute payments are our main income...that would be a logical assumption
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