Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,964
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Post by Sparrow on Aug 19, 2024 17:29:24 GMT 1
Commercial revenues are the revenues that need to rise and rise significantly. Increasing season ticket prices will help, but not significantly. An average £50 increase across 16K season ticket holders is £800K. But you probably don't maintain all of those 16K season ticket holders. Maybe it drops to 14.5K. £725K increase in revenue through Season cards, but then 1500 people less per match attending. 34,500 people across the season. Possibly £200K lost in match day sales? So you've made just over £500K by increasing season card prices. Doesn't really buy you a decent player if you include transfer fee wages, signing on fees, agents fees, bonus's etc. However, increase the commercial revenues by a good few million a season and that changes the whole dynamic of the clubs finances....And you don't have to increase season card prices I understand the argument but I don't think that the issue is as straightforward as a balance between commercial revenue and the price charged to attend games. Noting that the more people who attend and are committed fans mean, potentially, more eyes to advertise and sell products to. The issue is one of value and what value is placed on coming to watch Town. Would a £50 increase per head per season card have lost as many as you forecast? Over a season that is less than £3 per game. The balance is creating an experience that people value, which is largely down to results/performances on the pitch but also their day out (the improvements to the stadium have made a difference and at some cost). The £800k may not buy the key player but it provides resources for the running of the club. Potentially attracting and keeping quality staff who run the club etc... I think my point was twofold: The current season card price is being, essentially, subsidised by Mr Nagle. If things don't go well on the pitch (and it is so far so good) people will be concerned/raise their concerns/moan (essentially). However what we need to be aware of is the argument that; "it has only cost 249 quid so what more can you expect"? If you see my point the price and the delivered value become linked, and in a negative context. The price is too cheap (based on the League One market place) and will need to increase at some point (if only to support the other elements of the Town business that need to keep running). I don't disagree with you and I'm prepared for an increase next season. Although when I'm buying 3 tickets, I hope the increase per ticket isn't that much. There's really 4 areas to increase revenues, other than player sales Commercial Retail Match day - non ticket Ticket sales - including season card. The biggest and best way to increase the clubs overall revenue is via Commercial revenue. If we can increase those revenues to a level similar to what Bristol City or others do, then that adds an addition +-£10m to the coffers......the additional revenue from increased season cards is minimal compared to that.. I guess what I am trying to say is that increasing season card costs to similar levels of Championship / League 1 clubs wont revolutionise the clubs finances. Increasing the Commercial revenue to similar levels of Championship / League 1 clubs has to potential to do so.....So the focus / conversation should be on how the club are going to do that....Not how much they are putting season cards up Retail and non ticket match day revenues increase with more fans in the ground each match day....Intrinsically linked to cost of attendance and of course performance of the team....Increased Commercial revenue should/could lead to the ability to increase the squad budget (transfer fees, wages etc), which hopefully improves performance.....Improved performance give the potential to increase season card prices. |
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,964
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Post by Sparrow on Aug 19, 2024 17:32:06 GMT 1
Commercial revenues are the revenues that need to rise and rise significantly. Increasing season ticket prices will help, but not significantly. An average £50 increase across 16K season ticket holders is £800K. But you probably don't maintain all of those 16K season ticket holders. Maybe it drops to 14.5K. £725K increase in revenue through Season cards, but then 1500 people less per match attending. 34,500 people across the season. Possibly £200K lost in match day sales? So you've made just over £500K by increasing season card prices. Doesn't really buy you a decent player if you include transfer fee wages, signing on fees, agents fees, bonus's etc. However, increase the commercial revenues by a good few million a season and that changes the whole dynamic of the clubs finances....And you don't have to increase season card prices Commercial income rose 21% and at £4.2M is significant higher than pre-PL levels, which is a pretty impressive performance. Time for season card holders to carry a bit more on their shoulders (next season)? Agreed a 21% increase in commercial revenues is vert good. Let's hope that and more can be achieved year on year going forward. The more money brought in via commercial revenues the less of an increase in season card prices. Win win for both club and supporters. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2024 17:45:45 GMT 1
I'm thankful we have a reasonable fellow like Mr Nagle in charge,im sure it'll be costing him a packet so far.
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Post by Big Ern on Aug 19, 2024 17:46:16 GMT 1
If we get promoted this season I wouldn't be surprised to see season tickets costing an extra 100 quid. That's less than 10 quid a month extra. Still lower than the average and would likely see a steady demand in tickets (perhaps an increase).
Don't go up and I expect them to stay the same.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Aug 19, 2024 17:53:49 GMT 1
Commercial income rose 21% and at £4.2M is significant higher than pre-PL levels, which is a pretty impressive performance. Time for season card holders to carry a bit more on their shoulders (next season)? Agreed a 21% increase in commercial revenues is vert good. Let's hope that and more can be achieved year on year going forward. The more money brought in via commercial revenues the less of an increase in season card prices. Win win for both club and supporters. It looks like the reason for Bristol City’s good commercial revenues is concerts at the stadium. If KN gets control of the stadium, the opportunities for revenue are there for him. (I’ve been told that Springsteen was nearly booked for the Piece Hall this summer - we should be trying to piggy back on that venue’s success, adding a date for the bigger artists they get, maybe?) |
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Post by Mastercracker on Aug 19, 2024 20:22:04 GMT 1
Commercial revenues are the revenues that need to rise and rise significantly. Increasing season ticket prices will help, but not significantly. An average £50 increase across 16K season ticket holders is £800K. But you probably don't maintain all of those 16K season ticket holders. Maybe it drops to 14.5K. £725K increase in revenue through Season cards, but then 1500 people less per match attending. 34,500 people across the season. Possibly £200K lost in match day sales? So you've made just over £500K by increasing season card prices. Doesn't really buy you a decent player if you include transfer fee wages, signing on fees, agents fees, bonus's etc. However, increase the commercial revenues by a good few million a season and that changes the whole dynamic of the clubs finances....And you don't have to increase season card prices Commercial income rose 21% and at £4.2M is significant higher than pre-PL levels, which is a pretty impressive performance. Time for season card holders to carry a bit more on their shoulders (next season)? Commercial hasn’t increased massively, they’ve just stopped stripping out retail, lotteries and canalside inc like they used to and lumped them as one. The total was 900k more than 2017. In 2022 it was 200k more. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Aug 19, 2024 21:16:12 GMT 1
Agreed a 21% increase in commercial revenues is vert good. Let's hope that and more can be achieved year on year going forward. The more money brought in via commercial revenues the less of an increase in season card prices. Win win for both club and supporters. It looks like the reason for Bristol City’s good commercial revenues is concerts at the stadium. If KN gets control of the stadium, the opportunities for revenue are there for him. (I’ve been told that Springsteen was nearly booked for the Piece Hall this summer - we should be trying to piggy back on that venue’s success, adding a date for the bigger artists they get, maybe?) Is there some strength in that story about Springsteen at the Piece Hall. Would be quite a coup that one. Maybe one for KN to explore if he gets more control, the stadium would surely be a better choice for that sort of gig? |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,526
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Post by incognito on Aug 19, 2024 22:18:51 GMT 1
For reference, the Green Day concert the summer before last achieved a net profit of £229k.
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Post by shawsie on Aug 19, 2024 23:05:22 GMT 1
For reference, the Green Day concert the summer before last achieved a net profit of £229k. If true you have to ask why the hell we missed the boat on more gigs for years. Weve allowed the FD Arena and Piece Hall to flourish and as a venue ours has gone backwards. Opportunity badly missed but hope KN and his team can rebuild the commercial model for the club. The current mantra certainly has a chance rather than the plucky little underdog shite weve been fed in recent yrs. |
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Post by benhomly on Aug 19, 2024 23:55:05 GMT 1
For reference, the Green Day concert the summer before last achieved a net profit of £229k. If true you have to ask why the hell we missed the boat on more gigs for years. Weve allowed the FD Arena and Piece Hall to flourish and as a venue ours has gone backwards. Opportunity badly missed but hope KN and his team can rebuild the commercial model for the club. The current mantra certainly has a chance rather than the plucky little underdog shite weve been fed in recent yrs. We've certainly missed the boat on more gigs over the years but I don't think we've lost out to the Piece Hall. I think the capacity there is just 5,500? so the bands performing there would not be on the list of likely bands for us surely. Could be wrong of course but I find it hard to believe that Springsteen was very close to performing at the Piece Hall as someone suggested on another thread. Saw him at Roundhay Park back in the 80's and I think there were around 90,000 there that day. People's stock changes over the years of course but I'm sure he could fill our stadium even now. |
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Post by gledholt terrier on Aug 20, 2024 0:40:50 GMT 1
If true you have to ask why the hell we missed the boat on more gigs for years. Weve allowed the FD Arena and Piece Hall to flourish and as a venue ours has gone backwards. Opportunity badly missed but hope KN and his team can rebuild the commercial model for the club. The current mantra certainly has a chance rather than the plucky little underdog shite weve been fed in recent yrs. We've certainly missed the boat on more gigs over the years but I don't think we've lost out to the Piece Hall. I think the capacity there is just 5,500? so the bands performing there would not be on the list of likely bands for us surely. Could be wrong of course but I find it hard to believe that Springsteen was very close to performing at the Piece Hall as someone suggested on another thread. Saw him at Roundhay Park back in the 80's and I think there were around 90,000 there that day. People's stock changes over the years of course but I'm sure he could fill our stadium even now. To be honest, I didn’t believe it either (for ‘‘twas me on the other thread). As for packing out the JSS - he sold out 2 nights at Wembley 3 weeks ago! |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Aug 20, 2024 6:42:20 GMT 1
Lancs CCC made a profit of £5m in their last accounting period. Yorkshire CCC are something like £20m in debt. Gigs at old Trafford are an absolute money spinner for them and it’s pretty much the reason they’re so far ahead of us at the minute.
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Post by shawsie on Aug 20, 2024 7:20:04 GMT 1
If true you have to ask why the hell we missed the boat on more gigs for years. Weve allowed the FD Arena and Piece Hall to flourish and as a venue ours has gone backwards. Opportunity badly missed but hope KN and his team can rebuild the commercial model for the club. The current mantra certainly has a chance rather than the plucky little underdog shite weve been fed in recent yrs. We've certainly missed the boat on more gigs over the years but I don't think we've lost out to the Piece Hall. I think the capacity there is just 5,500? so the bands performing there would not be on the list of likely bands for us surely. Could be wrong of course but I find it hard to believe that Springsteen was very close to performing at the Piece Hall as someone suggested on another thread. Saw him at Roundhay Park back in the 80's and I think there were around 90,000 there that day. People's stock changes over the years of course but I'm sure he could fill our stadium even now. I get the point you make......but the piece hall is now a music venue literally thousands look for each yr to attend. We could have been the same imho - but for some reason after a bright start we got nothing for yrs. Hopefully the stadium usage will increase to generate revenues from a wider source to reinvigorate the club......at least it looks like theres a plan now though. The new owners have made mistakes - we all do, but it does look like they are trying and have an energy and drive to keep doing so........i wish them the very best. |
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ldr
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,159 
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Post by ldr on Aug 20, 2024 8:00:52 GMT 1
Springsteen seems to be in a rush to play to as many people as possible around the world. I’ve heard a few rumours that he is ill and that this is his drawn out goodbyes. I really hope not but there is no way, he is playing the Piece Hall any time soon.
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Post by townarentbest on Aug 20, 2024 9:08:46 GMT 1
For reference, the Green Day concert the summer before last achieved a net profit of £229k. If true you have to ask why the hell we missed the boat on more gigs for years. Weve allowed the FD Arena and Piece Hall to flourish and as a venue ours has gone backwards. Opportunity badly missed but hope KN and his team can rebuild the commercial model for the club. The current mantra certainly has a chance rather than the plucky little underdog shite weve been fed in recent yrs. Its true, its in the KSDL accounts (which are pretty bleak!). I'm sure a stadium company hosting concerts every year would get much slicker and profit would be increased significantly beyond that level. |
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Post by kimbo999 on Aug 20, 2024 9:23:44 GMT 1
Mr Nagle wouldn't be investing if there was no long term outcome to A-turn a profit B-become sustainable as much as a club can be.
He has employed all sorts to look at marketing here and abroad, his pursuit of the ground, the pre match entertainment and the look for indoor venues to get punters in to spend cash, the retail department.
He doesn't become as successful as he has without laying ground work and getting the best he can get to look at ever opportunity to squeeze the last dime out of something.
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Post by Ginger Ogre on Aug 20, 2024 14:38:29 GMT 1
My point was more that investing in the right people is more important than quantity of money. Yup, everyone else got it.  I got it as well, but its an undeniable fact that if you look at any league in English football and compare it to a 'money spent' table it will generally be that those who spend the most (and therefore get the better players, managers, coaches, staff etc) will usually be up the top. Of course there will always be exceptions, as I mentioned Town were one in 2016/17, but these are few and far between in comparison to what I would class as regular success. |
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Post by Carlito Brigante on Aug 20, 2024 14:49:14 GMT 1
For reference, the Green Day concert the summer before last achieved a net profit of £229k. A fair amount of that was my bar bill 'Ow much ? |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Aug 20, 2024 20:41:13 GMT 1
Yup, everyone else got it. I got it as well, but its an undeniable fact that if you look at any league in English football and compare it to a 'money spent' table it will generally be that those who spend the most (and therefore get the better players, managers, coaches, staff etc) will usually be up the top. Of course there will always be exceptions, as I mentioned Town were one in 2016/17, but these are few and far between in comparison to what I would class as regular success. Yup got it...again.😇 |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,526
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Post by incognito on Sept 17, 2024 14:14:57 GMT 1
Hull KR 'securing the coin'
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Post by Junior & Onuora on Sept 17, 2024 14:43:27 GMT 1
Hull KR 'securing the coin' Craven Park is a shithole that's a bastard to get to. Don't know how they pulled this off. |
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,868
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Post by Dan on Sept 17, 2024 14:58:55 GMT 1
5 nights at Wembley and 2 nights at a shithole rugby ground in Hull with a 12k capacity. Most bizarre tour announcement ever.
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Post by townarentbest on Sept 17, 2024 15:37:00 GMT 1
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