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Post by Big Ern on Jul 18, 2020 9:07:10 GMT 1
After yesterday it feels like this club has found itself in a position to give itself another chance at stabilising itself as a competitive side in this division. After the last 2 years for me our league position is more down to mind over matter and the fact we have halted the slide must surely now alter the perspective and mental attitude of those within the club and the fans.
We have an opportunity to clear some of the old and bring in the new and it is imperative we get this right. As much as I have an affection for players like Kachunga and Schindler, for me if we are to move on as a club we need to stop looking back and start looking forwards.
Its imperative that we now create a new positive mantra and a strategy for success. We can and will be a success if we get it right off the pitch.
I'm not a strategic manager but for me the first step is to re-engage with the fans. Show them the desire, the commitment and maintain our healthy crowds (as well as we can) through sensible pricing. Relationships between chairman and fans and players and fans needs to return, get that buzz back.
Finally, we absolutely must must must shake off the 'little old town' tag. We are a big fish in this pond and we need to start acting like it. If we tell ourselves we can't compete then we won't.
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Post by JG Mellor on Jul 18, 2020 9:29:23 GMT 1
We definitely aren't 'little old town' as you rightly point out. But we ain't a big fish and we never have been, apart from a handful of years when God was a boy. But neither are Burnley and they're making a fist of it. So why shouldn't we? UTMT
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Post by kennyk2 on Jul 18, 2020 9:30:21 GMT 1
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by mallyb on Jul 18, 2020 9:35:34 GMT 1
We definitely aren't 'little old town' as you rightly point out. But we ain't a big fish and we never have been, apart from a handful of years when God was a boy. But neither are Burnley and they're making a fist of it. So why shouldn't we? UTMT Burnley don’t see themselves as a little club like some of our fans do. They are no bigger but their fans, their local radio and the local press all see them in the same way derby, palace, Norwich fans see themselves. Too many of our fans and commentators see us like An Oldham or Wycombe it has to stop
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 18, 2020 9:46:38 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year
The club needs an enema this summer and next year - in 2021 we may have better foundations to push on, in a Preston or Millwall way
Next year the objective is to stay up and get shut of shite signed in 2018 and to a lesser extent 2019. Anything else is overachieving IMO
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by mallyb on Jul 18, 2020 10:00:29 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year The club needs an enema this summer and next year - in 2021 we may have better foundations to push on, in a Preston or Millwall way Next year the objective is to stay up and get shut of shite signed in 2018 and to a lesser extent 2019. Anything else is overachieving IMO Yes excellent way to make my point. Some fans have no ambition and see us as a little club that can’t compete. They ignore the fact that we have 2 more years of parachute payments that aren’t going to Dean because as a fan why would he do that. We will definitely have a budget to compete with Preston and Millwall. Phil took over to get us back to the PREM.
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ambryboy
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Post by ambryboy on Jul 18, 2020 10:00:53 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year The club needs an enema this summer and next year - in 2021 we may have better foundations to push on, in a Preston or Millwall way Next year the objective is to stay up and get shut of shite signed in 2018 and to a lesser extent 2019. Anything else is overachieving IMO We didn't have the budget to compete in 2016/17 but good management, sound recruitment and a strong team ethic helped us to punch well above our weight. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot create a team to compete effectively in this league. Do Millwall and Preston have huge player budgets? I doubt it and even Brentford seem to be on the brink of achieving something special without spending vast fortunes.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 18, 2020 10:05:46 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year The club needs an enema this summer and next year - in 2021 we may have better foundations to push on, in a Preston or Millwall way Next year the objective is to stay up and get shut of shite signed in 2018 and to a lesser extent 2019. Anything else is overachieving IMO We didn't have the budget to compete in 2016/17 but good management, sound recruitment and a strong team ethic helped us to punch well above our weight. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot create a team to compete effectively in this league. Do Millwall and Preston have huge player budgets? I doubt it and even Brentford seem to be on the brink of achieving something special without spending vast fortunes. We had a basis in 2016 - the ones who wouldn’t work hard had been moved out We are not in a position to realistically mount a promotion charge - by all means I hope we do but we have to be pragmatic in saying where we currently are
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Post by artysid on Jul 18, 2020 10:05:58 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year Just as a matter of interest, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top?
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Post by philatrickstarbuck on Jul 18, 2020 10:07:59 GMT 1
We definitely aren't 'little old town' as you rightly point out. But we ain't a big fish and we never have been, apart from a handful of years when God was a boy. But neither are Burnley and they're making a fist of it. So why shouldn't we? UTMT I still see us as a big fish in the Championship pond. Maybe this what the OP meant.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 18, 2020 10:08:17 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year The club needs an enema this summer and next year - in 2021 we may have better foundations to push on, in a Preston or Millwall way Next year the objective is to stay up and get shut of shite signed in 2018 and to a lesser extent 2019. Anything else is overachieving IMO Yes excellent way to make my point. Some fans have no ambition and see us as a little club that can’t compete. They ignore the fact that we have 2 more years of parachute payments that aren’t going to Dean because as a fan why would he do that. We will definitely have a budget to compete with Preston and Millwall. Phil took over to get us back to the PREM. The PL money is gone - to DH, the £30m bank loan and the £70m of “talent” we have to write off. We can’t spend it twice We’re now a small side with a small budget relative to others It shouldn’t be this way - and I am very critical of the mistakes - but we can’t hide from the reality of those errors and where we find ourselves now
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 18, 2020 10:13:16 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year Just as a matter of interest, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? We have millions accounted for in wages next year on players not wanted or not properly contributing; hamer, kongolo, Flo, mbenza, mounie, Pritchard, diakhaby, sobhi If by some miracle we move these early in the window we could then move to make signings and then gel these into a team in about three weeks That’s a best case scenario Realistically we won’t move them all on and will therefore be making key signings in the last hours of the window
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Post by artysid on Jul 18, 2020 10:16:07 GMT 1
Just as a matter of interest, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? We have millions in wages next year on players not wanted or not properly contributing; hamer, kongolo, Flo, mbenza, mounie, Pritchard, diakhaby, sobhi If by some miracle we move these early in the window we could then move to make signings and then gel these into a team in about three weeks That’s a best case scenario Realistically we won’t move them all on and will therefore be making key signings in the last hours of the window I've read that over at least 10 times now and I still can't see where you answered my question:- Other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top?
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 18, 2020 10:25:52 GMT 1
We have millions in wages next year on players not wanted or not properly contributing; hamer, kongolo, Flo, mbenza, mounie, Pritchard, diakhaby, sobhi If by some miracle we move these early in the window we could then move to make signings and then gel these into a team in about three weeks That’s a best case scenario Realistically we won’t move them all on and will therefore be making key signings in the last hours of the window I've read that over at least 10 times now and I still can't see where you answered my question:- Other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? First off - we owe the bank £30m Secondly DH wants millions repaid Thirdly we have 8 players - not needed - earning about £10m which cripple who we can sign After that we’re on the same basis as say Millwall If you believe we can aim for promotion in the next 10 months then fair enough. Naturally I hope we can but it would be an achievement equal to 2017 if we did IMO
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Post by artysid on Jul 18, 2020 10:28:00 GMT 1
I've read that over at least 10 times now and I still can't see where you answered my question:- Other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? First off - we owe the bank £30m Secondly DH wants millions repaid Thirdly we have 8 players earning about £10m which cripple who we can sign After that we’re on the same basis as say Millwall If you believe we can aim for promotion in the next 10 months then fair enough. Naturally I hope we can but it would be an achievement equal to 2017 if we did IMO Is my question too difficult for you? To repeat, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top?
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jul 18, 2020 10:29:03 GMT 1
First off - we owe the bank £30m Secondly DH wants millions repaid Thirdly we have 8 players earning about £10m which cripple who we can sign After that we’re on the same basis as say Millwall If you believe we can aim for promotion in the next 10 months then fair enough. Naturally I hope we can but it would be an achievement equal to 2017 if we did IMO Is my question too difficult for you? To repeat, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? Sorry to butt in. Only Fulham springs to mind, if they don’t go up. Other than that, no one.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 18, 2020 10:29:18 GMT 1
First off - we owe the bank £30m Secondly DH wants millions repaid Thirdly we have 8 players earning about £10m which cripple who we can sign After that we’re on the same basis as say Millwall If you believe we can aim for promotion in the next 10 months then fair enough. Naturally I hope we can but it would be an achievement equal to 2017 if we did IMO Is my question too difficult for you? To repeat, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? Every club without a £30m debt to the bank and a £45m repayment schedule to a former owner is who Where is the extra money coming from in your eyes?
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jul 18, 2020 10:32:04 GMT 1
Is my question too difficult for you? To repeat, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? Every club without a £30m debt to the bank and a £45m repayment schedule to a former owner is who Where is the extra money coming from in your eyes? Eh? So Wycombe have a budget to compete at the top?
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 18, 2020 10:36:17 GMT 1
Every club without a £30m debt to the bank and a £45m repayment schedule to a former owner is who Where is the extra money coming from in your eyes? Eh? So Wycombe have a budget to compete at the top? My point is there’s no point talking about parachute money riches when it’s already spent
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Post by tvor on Jul 18, 2020 10:40:17 GMT 1
We definitely aren't 'little old town' as you rightly point out. But we ain't a big fish and we never have been, apart from a handful of years when God was a boy. But neither are Burnley and they're making a fist of it. So why shouldn't we? UTMT Burnley don’t see themselves as a little club like some of our fans do. They are no bigger but their fans, their local radio and the local press all see them in the same way derby, palace, Norwich fans see themselves. Too many of our fans and commentators see us like An Oldham or Wycombe it has to stop You’re not comparing apples with apples there though. Both Burnley and Norwich have had multiple seasons in the PL and both have played in Europe. The expectations are higher and more of their fans will feel entitled to be in the top league. Before last night there was a lot of people on here expecting League One football.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 10:47:05 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year The club needs an enema this summer and next year - in 2021 we may have better foundations to push on, in a Preston or Millwall way Next year the objective is to stay up and get shut of shite signed in 2018 and to a lesser extent 2019. Anything else is overachieving IMO 100% Because of circumstances the “3 window transition” has become at least a 4 window one, probably 5, before we’re able to truly turn the ship so it’s pointing in the right direction and isn’t dragging a heavy anchor behind.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jul 18, 2020 10:51:28 GMT 1
Eh? So Wycombe have a budget to compete at the top? My point is there’s no point talking about parachute money riches when it’s already spent Fair do’s
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 11:01:01 GMT 1
After yesterday it feels like this club has found itself in a position to give itself another chance at stabilising itself as a competitive side in this division. After the last 2 years for me our league position is more down to mind over matter and the fact we have halted the slide must surely now alter the perspective and mental attitude of those within the club and the fans. We have an opportunity to clear some of the old and bring in the new and it is imperative we get this right. As much as I have an affection for players like Kachunga and Schindler, for me if we are to move on as a club we need to stop looking back and start looking forwards. Its imperative that we now create a new positive mantra and a strategy for success. We can and will be a success if we get it right off the pitch. I'm not a strategic manager but for me the first step is to re-engage with the fans. Show them the desire, the commitment and maintain our healthy crowds (as well as we can) through sensible pricing. Relationships between chairman and fans and players and fans needs to return, get that buzz back. Finally, we absolutely must must must shake off the 'little old town' tag. We are a big fish in this pond and we need to start acting like it. If we tell ourselves we can't compete then we won't. The most significant part of DC's post match interview yesterday (for me) was his admission that during his time at Town he has become a much better Manager. Both DC and NC have learned a lot in their first near relegation season. Two managers who are undoubtabely ambitious. This will stand them in good stead for the next Championship campaign. Next season will not be a Relegation battle.
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Post by artysid on Jul 18, 2020 11:03:20 GMT 1
Is my question too difficult for you? To repeat, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? Every club without a £30m debt to the bank and a £45m repayment schedule to a former owner is who Where is the extra money coming from in your eyes? I'm not saying we have the money to compete at the top, I'm asking which Clubs you think have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 11:14:06 GMT 1
We didn't have the budget to compete in 2016/17 but good management, sound recruitment and a strong team ethic helped us to punch well above our weight. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot create a team to compete effectively in this league. Do Millwall and Preston have huge player budgets? I doubt it and even Brentford seem to be on the brink of achieving something special without spending vast fortunes. We had a basis in 2016 - the ones who wouldn’t work hard had been moved out We are not in a position to realistically mount a promotion charge - by all means I hope we do but we have to be pragmatic in saying where we currently are steve chicken as summed it up perfectly in the examiner about next season and what a big task the club as given the general funds available both for us and many clubs.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jul 18, 2020 11:21:06 GMT 1
We had a basis in 2016 - the ones who wouldn’t work hard had been moved out We are not in a position to realistically mount a promotion charge - by all means I hope we do but we have to be pragmatic in saying where we currently are steve chicken as summed it up perfectly in the examiner about next season and what a big task the club as given the general funds available both for us and many clubs. It’s no excuse for me. Nearly every club in this division has either very limited money or spending money they don’t have, which will all come out in the wash. We are all pretty much even. This year has financially rocked clubs, out of the top division, and I really hope this is the start of a more even financial playing field.
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Post by gingerc on Jul 18, 2020 11:33:09 GMT 1
Well I’d start with the three teams coming down from the Premier League who will have parachute payments to play with. They will also get money from player sales e.g. Norwich will probably get a fair few pounds for Cantwell.
Only one of Fulham or Cardiff of the others that came down with us could get promoted and so there’s at least one other team with a couple of seasons with parachute payments to gamble with.
Then there are the likes of WBA who already have strong squads that probably only need tinkering with rather than wholesale changes and massive investment.
Then you have to factor in teams who have assets that they might cash in on to rebuild. If Brentford don’t go up then they might pocket £40m from selling Benrahma to Chelsea. Yes, we can sell players as well but even the likes of Grant have seen their value drop since Christmas compared to the stars of other teams. Plus, realistically what are we going to be able to recoup for the likes of Pritchard, Sobhi, Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo etc? £15m to £20m tops if we can find purchasers?
Then there is the question of what happens with Derby and Wednesday. If they get off Scott free like Man City or barely get slapped wrists then expect them to gamble once again in the riches of the Premier League.
So I think there are at least half a dozen teams with at least similar resources, if not more than Town (given the commitment of the bank debt and paying Dean Hoyle).
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jul 18, 2020 11:36:05 GMT 1
Jesus. I was on a high before reading this thread. I’m so glad that I have a positive mindset. I’d prefer to hope that we can assemble a squad that can compete in the top half of the table so I can go to games thinking that the impossible is possible again.
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Post by hypotenuse on Jul 18, 2020 12:23:22 GMT 1
I don’t expect we will have the budget to compete at the top end next year Just as a matter of interest, other than the Clubs coming down, which are the Clubs that you think will have a budget to compete at the top? Here is my list: 3 clubs coming down 3 clubs who fail in play offs Bristol City (who would have walked this division with a decent manager) Swansea Stoke (I think they will be much stronger next year) Derby (unless their financial irregularities bite them) 1 or 2 well run clubs who will be competitive eg Millwall Preston If we finish top half, we will have done well as part of our rebuilding mission.
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terrier10
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Post by terrier10 on Jul 18, 2020 12:29:12 GMT 1
Well I’d start with the three teams coming down from the Premier League who will have parachute payments to play with. They will also get money from player sales e.g. Norwich will probably get a fair few pounds for Cantwell. Only one of Fulham or Cardiff of the others that came down with us could get promoted and so there’s at least one other team with a couple of seasons with parachute payments to gamble with. Then there are the likes of WBA who already have strong squads that probably only need tinkering with rather than wholesale changes and massive investment. Then you have to factor in teams who have assets that they might cash in on to rebuild. If Brentford don’t go up then they might pocket £40m from selling Benrahma to Chelsea. Yes, we can sell players as well but even the likes of Grant have seen their value drop since Christmas compared to the stars of other teams. Plus, realistically what are we going to be able to recoup for the likes of Pritchard, Sobhi, Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo etc? £15m to £20m tops if we can find purchasers? Then there is the question of what happens with Derby and Wednesday. If they get off Scott free like Man City or barely get slapped wrists then expect them to gamble once again in the riches of the Premier League. So I think there are at least half a dozen teams with at least similar resources, if not more than Town (given the commitment of the bank debt and paying Dean Hoyle). Both Fulham and Cardiff only had the one season in the PL so if fail to go up only have one more year left of parachute payments - which, assuming they’re the same for them as us, these will be reduced due to clawback from broadcasters.
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