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Post by El Mel on Oct 23, 2020 9:14:41 GMT 1
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Post by Torquayterrier on Oct 23, 2020 10:40:05 GMT 1
Each to their own but personally I wouldn't be going to a cinema just yet.
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Post by yoy on Oct 23, 2020 11:28:15 GMT 1
Agree very much about the government. Its a weakness of democracy in a way, that governments are forced to take a short termist approach to everything, when a more long term, pragmatic approach might be better. This now is a great example. Easier to cause a lot of deaths and misery in the future than fewer deaths in the here and now, even when they are people very much at deaths door anyway on the whole. Thing is though that when you look at the stats, they arent even achieving that. Saw a stat the other day that deaths at home from heart failures are up 26,000 from the norm since the C19 crisis started. Thats people having symptoms but either not seeking medical help or being stopped having it because the focus is so much on C19. Cancer referrals down 79% in April alone for the same reasons, referrals for breast cancer being particularly effected. This will lead to tens of thousands of premature deaths... average age way younger than Covids 82.3. Doesnt directly relate to football of course and all the other events that are now banned.. but these things are all part of a wider policy of lunacy IMO.. one designed to halt herd immunity being achieved whilst also causing massive economic and social damage. Ferguson at Imperial was always an odd choice of scientist to follow the predictions of, baring in mind he has a long history of wildly over-exaggerating his predictions around various health concerns. Swedens mortality rate of 0.06 is the same as the Uks and several other european countries ( better than some too ) despite a very different approach. Measures dont seem to have anywhere near as much effect on C19 death rates as the severity of the preceding flu season each nation had does... ie how much 'dry timber' they had for covid to attack. Its no coincidence that the countries that had an unusually mild flu season last winter had higher C19 deaths,, and vice versa. What are you referring to as mortality rate in the context of Sweden? Clearly you wouldn’t expect much difference in the proportion of infected people dying. You should expect difference in the proportion of the population dying. There’s a marked difference between Sweden and Norway for example in proportion of population. But as we’ve both said... the short term only paints part of the picture. Then there’s your very valid question as to how many of the deaths would already have occurred by now absent Covid.
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Merseyterrier
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:13][N4:1323786747##]
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Post by Merseyterrier on Oct 23, 2020 12:40:47 GMT 1
Each to their own but personally I wouldn't be going to a cinema just yet. Until Cineworld closed down a couple of weeks back, the good lady and I went about 6 times to our local one in Warrington. The most people we encountered in any showing was five. Tickets acquired before we went, took our own coffee (drinks), walked in, sat down, enjoyed film, came out and didn’t come into contact with anyone at all. Safest experience of all social interactions during the pandemic, but I agree, I wouldn’t be going to watch a match in there.
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 23, 2020 17:17:21 GMT 1
Agree very much about the government. Its a weakness of democracy in a way, that governments are forced to take a short termist approach to everything, when a more long term, pragmatic approach might be better. This now is a great example. Easier to cause a lot of deaths and misery in the future than fewer deaths in the here and now, even when they are people very much at deaths door anyway on the whole. Thing is though that when you look at the stats, they arent even achieving that. Saw a stat the other day that deaths at home from heart failures are up 26,000 from the norm since the C19 crisis started. Thats people having symptoms but either not seeking medical help or being stopped having it because the focus is so much on C19. Cancer referrals down 79% in April alone for the same reasons, referrals for breast cancer being particularly effected. This will lead to tens of thousands of premature deaths... average age way younger than Covids 82.3. Doesnt directly relate to football of course and all the other events that are now banned.. but these things are all part of a wider policy of lunacy IMO.. one designed to halt herd immunity being achieved whilst also causing massive economic and social damage. Ferguson at Imperial was always an odd choice of scientist to follow the predictions of, baring in mind he has a long history of wildly over-exaggerating his predictions around various health concerns. Swedens mortality rate of 0.06 is the same as the Uks and several other european countries ( better than some too ) despite a very different approach. Measures dont seem to have anywhere near as much effect on C19 death rates as the severity of the preceding flu season each nation had does... ie how much 'dry timber' they had for covid to attack. Its no coincidence that the countries that had an unusually mild flu season last winter had higher C19 deaths,, and vice versa. What are you referring to as mortality rate in the context of Sweden? Clearly you wouldn’t expect much difference in the proportion of infected people dying. You should expect difference in the proportion of the population dying. There’s a marked difference between Sweden and Norway for example in proportion of population. But as we’ve both said... the short term only paints part of the picture. Then there’s your very valid question as to how many of the deaths would already have occurred by now absent Covid. 0.06% is the proportion of the population dying. Swedens is no different from many in europe who have had much more severe lockdown strategies and is better than countries like Spain and belgium. Youre quite right that there is a difference between sweden and Norway, denmark and Finland though who have all fared much better. Like i said that could be explained because Sweden had a milder flu season than those countries. All the countries that have been hit hardest by C19 in europe had a very mild flu season just prior to it. Whereas a country like Hungary, barely effected by covid in the first spike, had a severe flu season. Dont think we'll ever know the true excess deaths caused by C19 because even the final year death tally will not only be inflated by excess C19 deaths but also by all the excess deaths fighting C19 has caused. But I think its pretty clear many ( most perhaps baring in mind the average age of over 82 ) of the C19 deaths recorded could well have died anyway this year of their existing health issues, so wont increase the normal years tally.
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Post by yoy on Oct 23, 2020 19:24:42 GMT 1
What are you referring to as mortality rate in the context of Sweden? Clearly you wouldn’t expect much difference in the proportion of infected people dying. You should expect difference in the proportion of the population dying. There’s a marked difference between Sweden and Norway for example in proportion of population. But as we’ve both said... the short term only paints part of the picture. Then there’s your very valid question as to how many of the deaths would already have occurred by now absent Covid. 0.06% is the proportion of the population dying. Swedens is no different from many in europe who have had much more severe lockdown strategies and is better than countries like Spain and belgium. Youre quite right that there is a difference between sweden and Norway, denmark and Finland though who have all fared much better. Like i said that could be explained because Sweden had a milder flu season than those countries. All the countries that have been hit hardest by C19 in europe had a very mild flu season just prior to it. Whereas a country like Hungary, barely effected by covid in the first spike, had a severe flu season. Dont think we'll ever know the true excess deaths caused by C19 because even the final year death tally will not only be inflated by excess C19 deaths but also by all the excess deaths fighting C19 has caused. But I think its pretty clear many ( most perhaps baring in mind the average age of over 82 ) of the C19 deaths recorded could well have died anyway this year of their existing health issues, so wont increase the normal years tally. Quite right, not only will the death toll never be known but nor will the true performance of countries relative to each other. Probably crass to describe it in that way. Anyway, enjoyed the chat. I’ll now get back to the real issues and I’ll go and start a January transfer thread
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Post by softboy on Oct 23, 2020 19:56:49 GMT 1
We all need to listen to the Government and their advisers - outside events with safe distancing are out of bounds. Inside events carry a much lower risk of passing the virus on thats why you can go to the theatre and watch West Ham in a cinema but not in a stadium. I don’t really understand why it is safer to sit in a cinema social distancing but not a football ground but the government say it is so thats it really.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Oct 23, 2020 20:13:50 GMT 1
Each to their own but personally I wouldn't be going to a cinema just yet. Until Cineworld closed down a couple of weeks back, the good lady and I went about 6 times to our local one in Warrington. The most people we encountered in any showing was five. Tickets acquired before we went, took our own coffee (drinks), walked in, sat down, enjoyed film, came out and didn’t come into contact with anyone at all. Safest experience of all social interactions during the pandemic, but I agree, I wouldn’t be going to watch a match in there. Thanks for that but most of us know coffee is a drink.
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Post by turbo2 on Oct 23, 2020 20:23:52 GMT 1
We all need to listen to the Government and their advisers - outside events with safe distancing are out of bounds. Inside events carry a much lower risk of passing the virus on thats why you can go to the theatre and watch West Ham in a cinema but not in a stadium. I don’t really understand why it is safer to sit in a cinema social distancing but not a football ground but the government say it is so thats it really. And now Scotland have a 5 tier system ffs
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Post by 28901 on Oct 23, 2020 20:52:28 GMT 1
0.06% is the proportion of the population dying. Swedens is no different from many in europe who have had much more severe lockdown strategies and is better than countries like Spain and belgium. Youre quite right that there is a difference between sweden and Norway, denmark and Finland though who have all fared much better. Like i said that could be explained because Sweden had a milder flu season than those countries. All the countries that have been hit hardest by C19 in europe had a very mild flu season just prior to it. Whereas a country like Hungary, barely effected by covid in the first spike, had a severe flu season. Dont think we'll ever know the true excess deaths caused by C19 because even the final year death tally will not only be inflated by excess C19 deaths but also by all the excess deaths fighting C19 has caused. But I think its pretty clear many ( most perhaps baring in mind the average age of over 82 ) of the C19 deaths recorded could well have died anyway this year of their existing health issues, so wont increase the normal years tally. Quite right, not only will the death toll never be known but nor will the true performance of countries relative to each other. Probably crass to describe it in that way. Anyway, enjoyed the chat. I’ll now get back to the real issues and I’ll go and start a January transfer thread Good read chaps. I really dont know what to think. I was ok with a lockdown first time but you know 6 months later I dont know anyone who has died from it and only a couple of people second hand who have had it. I'm getting older myself, I would much rather take any risk than live out my life under these restrictions.
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willo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by willo on Oct 24, 2020 1:18:15 GMT 1
After a bit of a hiatus, bands are now announcing they’re going out on tour again next year. Some of these are rescheduled dates but many more are out & out new tours and I got tickets yesterday for a gig at Leeds First Direct Arena towards the end of November 2021. Vaccine or no vaccine, I’m guessing these dates will be honoured as there’s no way we can still be in this no lockdown/partial lockdown/full lockdown that we’re in now (dependent on where you live) in 12 months time. It’ll have to be time to try herd immunity if we’re all out of options by then. If you feel you’re at risk, stay home or go out and run the risk if absolutely necessary but wear a face mask and be aware of the consequences which is pretty much what we should have done from Day 1 anyway.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Oct 24, 2020 3:58:02 GMT 1
After a bit of a hiatus, bands are now announcing they’re going out on tour again next year. Some of these are rescheduled dates but many more are out & out new tours and I got tickets yesterday for a gig at Leeds First Direct Arena towards the end of November 2021. Vaccine or no vaccine, I’m guessing these dates will be honoured as there’s no way we can still be in this no lockdown/partial lockdown/full lockdown that we’re in now (dependent on where you live) in 12 months time. It’ll have to be time to try herd immunity if we’re all out of options by then. If you feel you’re at risk, stay home or go out and run the risk if absolutely necessary but wear a face mask and be aware of the consequences which is pretty much what we should have done from Day 1 anyway. Herd Immunity was, is, and always will be part of the armoury to deal with Coronavirus.
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Post by 28901 on Oct 24, 2020 9:31:16 GMT 1
After a bit of a hiatus, bands are now announcing they’re going out on tour again next year. Some of these are rescheduled dates but many more are out & out new tours and I got tickets yesterday for a gig at Leeds First Direct Arena towards the end of November 2021. Vaccine or no vaccine, I’m guessing these dates will be honoured as there’s no way we can still be in this no lockdown/partial lockdown/full lockdown that we’re in now (dependent on where you live) in 12 months time. It’ll have to be time to try herd immunity if we’re all out of options by then. If you feel you’re at risk, stay home or go out and run the risk if absolutely necessary but wear a face mask and be aware of the consequences which is pretty much what we should have done from Day 1 anyway. I hope your right. There seems no way out at the moment.
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 24, 2020 10:28:44 GMT 1
After a bit of a hiatus, bands are now announcing they’re going out on tour again next year. Some of these are rescheduled dates but many more are out & out new tours and I got tickets yesterday for a gig at Leeds First Direct Arena towards the end of November 2021. Vaccine or no vaccine, I’m guessing these dates will be honoured as there’s no way we can still be in this no lockdown/partial lockdown/full lockdown that we’re in now (dependent on where you live) in 12 months time. It’ll have to be time to try herd immunity if we’re all out of options by then. If you feel you’re at risk, stay home or go out and run the risk if absolutely necessary but wear a face mask and be aware of the consequences which is pretty much what we should have done from Day 1 anyway. Herd immunity was the only long term way of suppressing the virus all along really. A vaccine will help in that if one is produced but vaccines usually take a long time to adapt and toy with before they are that effective. Think the flu vaccine had a 40% success rate when it was first introduced. Anf of course it has to be adapted each year to try and fit the particular strain of flu that year.. with varying degrees of success which leads to huge variances in the death toll. Masks are a funny one. 40 years of research showed they had no discernible effect at all on the spread of flu ( spread in the same ways as covid ) and that seemed to be the science they followed, right up to the point after the spike of the pandemic when they suddenly decided to ignore all that and make them mandatory. I suspect the thinking might have been that although they themselves dont really work, they are a clear visual and physical reminder to everyone to social distance and improve their hygiene. So have a positive effect that way. Personally think that rather than lockdown by area or by activity, we should lockdown by age and health condition. Students for example.. we should actually be encouraging them to mix as much as possible since they returned in August within their own peer groups. The idea being you would quickly get an entire generation with immunity to a large degree, but without putting any extra strain on the NHS, as barely any of them will suffer severe adverse effects. To me that makes more sense that what is actually happening, where the virus is being slowed down as much as possible in that age group, but still there in such numbers that when all these students return home for xmas they will invariably spread it to their families and home town friends. If we'd taken that attitude all summer throughout all the healthy population, I think we'd have largely overcome the problem by now as C19 would be finding it very hard to spread. We continued to suppress the virus at a time when all the resources to treat it were largely sat idle gathering dust.
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Oct 25, 2020 9:28:09 GMT 1
I noticed on the goals roundup on Quest last night that Colchester United have actually removed blocks of two or three seats all over the stands to create a patchwork effect of seats. Obviously their idea to help keep social distancing in the ground. At least they’re showing a bit of initiative. Having been to non-league games with 600 there, I’m sure Col U could handle 2,500 or so with what they’ve done.
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Post by lossiemouthtownfan on Oct 25, 2020 9:55:22 GMT 1
With the five tier system up here you would have thought tier 0 would be no restrictions but it's not, just minimum restrictions. Everybody up here knew Nichola would introduce more levels/tiers than Boris. If Boris had done 5, Nichola would have done 6.
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Post by blanquiazules on Oct 25, 2020 10:14:25 GMT 1
If it takes you 12 minutes to walk 500m then you probably can’t afford to risk catching covid.
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ram
Andy Booth Terrier
delete account
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Post by ram on Oct 25, 2020 12:09:13 GMT 1
Star Trek had an episode where all people over 50{I think} were Euthanised.Why don't we adopt this? Some suggestions on this thread are almost tantamount to this.I will be 80 in 3 weeks time,maybe I should chuck myself in front of a train.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Oct 25, 2020 12:18:19 GMT 1
Star Trek had an episode where all people over 50{I think} were Euthanised.Why don't we adopt this? Some suggestions on this thread are almost tantamount to this.I will be 80 in 3 weeks time,maybe I should chuck myself in front of a train. Don't forget Logans run, was it 37 the age they were earmarked for disposal? This board would be full of runners... 😁
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Oct 25, 2020 12:24:38 GMT 1
After a bit of a hiatus, bands are now announcing they’re going out on tour again next year. Some of these are rescheduled dates but many more are out & out new tours and I got tickets yesterday for a gig at Leeds First Direct Arena towards the end of November 2021. Vaccine or no vaccine, I’m guessing these dates will be honoured as there’s no way we can still be in this no lockdown/partial lockdown/full lockdown that we’re in now (dependent on where you live) in 12 months time. It’ll have to be time to try herd immunity if we’re all out of options by then. If you feel you’re at risk, stay home or go out and run the risk if absolutely necessary but wear a face mask and be aware of the consequences which is pretty much what we should have done from Day 1 anyway. Herd immunity was the only long term way of suppressing the virus all along really. A vaccine will help in that if one is produced but vaccines usually take a long time to adapt and toy with before they are that effective. Think the flu vaccine had a 40% success rate when it was first introduced. Anf of course it has to be adapted each year to try and fit the particular strain of flu that year.. with varying degrees of success which leads to huge variances in the death toll. Masks are a funny one. 40 years of research showed they had no discernible effect at all on the spread of flu ( spread in the same ways as covid ) and that seemed to be the science they followed, right up to the point after the spike of the pandemic when they suddenly decided to ignore all that and make them mandatory. I suspect the thinking might have been that although they themselves dont really work, they are a clear visual and physical reminder to everyone to social distance and improve their hygiene. So have a positive effect that way. Personally think that rather than lockdown by area or by activity, we should lockdown by age and health condition. Students for example.. we should actually be encouraging them to mix as much as possible since they returned in August within their own peer groups. The idea being you would quickly get an entire generation with immunity to a large degree, but without putting any extra strain on the NHS, as barely any of them will suffer severe adverse effects. To me that makes more sense that what is actually happening, where the virus is being slowed down as much as possible in that age group, but still there in such numbers that when all these students return home for xmas they will invariably spread it to their families and home town friends. If we'd taken that attitude all summer throughout all the healthy population, I think we'd have largely overcome the problem by now as C19 would be finding it very hard to spread. We continued to suppress the virus at a time when all the resources to treat it were largely sat idle gathering dust. Herd immunity was the only long term, blah blah blah. You really should go and offer your advice to SAGE Slapps... 😉 Back to the fans in the ground thing, how viable would it be, stewards per head etc. Facilities, H&S etc. etc. That's before you add in the cost of complimentary pensioner blankets for everyone as it'll be fecking freezing with all the gaps needed... Though going back to your herd immunity suggestion, maybe get all the volunteers to pack into the grounds, put them up in aircraft hangars between games and see how the theory pans out?
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willo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,934
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Post by willo on Oct 25, 2020 12:28:43 GMT 1
Star Trek had an episode where all people over 50{I think} were Euthanised.Why don't we adopt this? Some suggestions on this thread are almost tantamount to this.I will be 80 in 3 weeks time,maybe I should chuck myself in front of a train. My Mum is 75, lives alone but can get out & about as she has a car, and all my brother and I have said to her throughout this is to just think about whether any journey is a “necessary” one. She has no underlying health issues so has carried on doing her own shopping, has her hair done, has seen the odd friend when she can and we have a rota where she comes to us both for Sunday lunch and that’s been about it. We didn’t want her going to the cinema or wandering around the shops with no real inclination of buying anything, all unnecessary trips out in our view but equally, none of us thought it a good idea for her to just hunker down and ride it out. Not ideal but she realised (once we’d hammered it home) that this virus can be fatal to those of a certain age. It’s down to common sense at the end of the day.
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Post by cissystrutt74 on Oct 25, 2020 12:32:48 GMT 1
With the five tier system up here you would have thought tier 0 would be no restrictions but it's not, just minimum restrictions. Everybody up here knew Nichola would introduce more levels/tiers than Boris. If Boris had done 5, Nichola would have done 6. It was nailed on wasn't it I actually laughed when i first heard about the wee scamps 5 tier system on the radio it was so predictable
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Post by cissystrutt74 on Oct 25, 2020 12:38:52 GMT 1
Star Trek had an episode where all people over 50{I think} were Euthanised.Why don't we adopt this? Some suggestions on this thread are almost tantamount to this.I will be 80 in 3 weeks time,maybe I should chuck myself in front of a train. That would cause hours of disruption and could mentally impact the people dealing with the clean up Book a hotel room somewhere nice, acquire the services of a few lady's of the night then conclude the evening with a big bag of illegal narcotics Go out in style!
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 25, 2020 12:53:08 GMT 1
Star Trek had an episode where all people over 50{I think} were Euthanised.Why don't we adopt this? Some suggestions on this thread are almost tantamount to this.I will be 80 in 3 weeks time,maybe I should chuck myself in front of a train. I wouldnt as even in your 80s you'll have a 95% + likelihood of surviving covid should you get it, and provided you havent got some serious underlying health problem, even better than those odds. No ones suggesting anything that is tantamount to euthanising the elderly. Enormous resources could be put into shielding them at a fraction of the costs the economy is currently suffering. I just think the bigger concern is throwing everything else in front of a train in some futile attempt to 'beat' a virus that isnt going to go anywhere. And causing tens of thousands of premature deaths in the process.
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drewden
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by drewden on Oct 25, 2020 13:15:38 GMT 1
Serious question, I am on a trip to Cardiff later today for 2 days, am I allowed to go into any shops on my visit.
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digs
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by digs on Oct 25, 2020 13:18:05 GMT 1
Serious question, I am on a trip to Cardiff later today for 2 days, am I allowed to go into any shops on my visit. I should think so,but only if there open
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drewden
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,686
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Post by drewden on Oct 25, 2020 13:23:45 GMT 1
Serious question, I am on a trip to Cardiff later today for 2 days, am I allowed to go into any shops on my visit. I should think so,but only if there open I just have a feeling motorway services will be closed.
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digs
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,833
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Post by digs on Oct 25, 2020 13:31:24 GMT 1
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drewden
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,686
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Post by drewden on Oct 25, 2020 13:40:24 GMT 1
Cheers for that, obviously I am an H.G.V driver, so all good thanks.
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Post by captainblack on Oct 25, 2020 13:55:18 GMT 1
With the five tier system up here you would have thought tier 0 would be no restrictions but it's not, just minimum restrictions. Everybody up here knew Nichola would introduce more levels/tiers than Boris. If Boris had done 5, Nichola would have done 6. Crikey , what's level 5, are you bound and gagged and thrown down the cellar
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