Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 22:37:50 GMT 1
Not CC’s Fault. It’s PH’s fault for not backing him with quality. Simples!! The fact that we can't defend is solely down to Carlos.
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Post by space hardware on Feb 13, 2021 22:54:12 GMT 1
I thought we'd be bottom with 12 points at this stage so he's overperforming, in my opinion.
The blame lies above him, with the Chuckle Brothers, Hoyle and Skint Phil.
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wigster
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Post by wigster on Feb 13, 2021 23:00:23 GMT 1
For me Hoyle is the main culprit - over 3 years - but , seriously, can the players understand Carlos ? I genuinely cannot understand half of what he says in interviews.
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deo1
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Post by deo1 on Feb 13, 2021 23:10:05 GMT 1
Must admit it’s the first time I’ve questioned if Carlos is out of his depth managing town after today’s shambolic performance. We seem to be sleep walking into relegation and no one inside of the club who can do something about it can see this which is very worrying. The club and PH/DH in particular must thank their lucky stars that fans aren’t allowed in the stadium.
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Post by ACW on Feb 13, 2021 23:26:23 GMT 1
Not CC’s Fault. It’s PH’s fault for not backing him with quality. Simples!! The fact that we can't defend is solely down to Carlos. I think the players themselves carry some responsibility too.
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Post by Matt1908 on Feb 13, 2021 23:28:37 GMT 1
And perhaps the people that bought the players that can't defend?
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 14, 2021 0:45:46 GMT 1
I dont need to read the board to know a lot of finger pointing will be aimed at phil hodgkinson, but carlos can't escape his share of the blame for that shitshow. End of the day, that whole side was full of players who were all under-performing.. like all of them. Each of those players can play a whole lot better than that. They can be better organised, better drilled, have better set piece routines and be better motivated. Agreed, but the players themselves are also responsible. It was a shit show from everyone. Totally. That side had a mixture of players who are just off form, players who dont care less and players who make endless stupid errors. If I see Mbenza bottle out of another physical challenge Im going to kick my screen in! A 5 year old girl would beat him in a tackle. If I see Bacuna get the ball and instantly think having it means he can pretend to be gods gift again Ill kick it in again.. like hes trying to be SOOO fucking casual because hes just SOOO fucking good he doesn't have to try that hard. Oh yeah Bacuna,, just look cool, slow it down,, let them get right on top of you because youre the man.. and you're just toying with them because youre different gravy... oh hang on, no, theyve just easily taken it off you.. or youve just casually passed it straight to them, you overly arrogant prick. Why dont you spend less time perfecting your latest stupid haircut and more time focusing on being a footballer and maybe realise rather than looking like Lionel bloddy Messi, you spend most of every game looking like a league 2 player! The sooner those two leave this club the better. And pritchard.. another one. I cant fault his effort.. he seems to really try.. but christ he offers nothing. I had patience with him but its gone now. What a shadow of the player he was at Norwich and brentford he is. And campbell. Wants to be the tough guy. The aggressive one. Does he not realise that just fouling defenders all the time kills the attack. Is he stupid? Supposed to be an experienced player.. youve got Stroud.. a shit ref if ever there was one.. and hes giving a free kick everytime a player falls over... so lets keep shoving them over Fraser.. that'll work! Picked them 4 out because theyre the ones that really piss me off. But I could rant about Pipa's defending or a whole host of other things. That 2nd half performance by those players was a disgrace.. the lot of them.
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Post by ball on Feb 14, 2021 0:50:03 GMT 1
For me Hoyle is the main culprit - over 3 years - but , seriously, can the players understand Carlos ? I genuinely cannot understand half of what he says in interviews. Have thought to myself that I really don’t care what he says in his pressers because they’re so mundane. I know you can get fed shit in them, but a bit of passion and energy goes a long way for me.
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Post by sociallydistant on Feb 14, 2021 0:58:08 GMT 1
I genuinely dont know and there is no sitting on the fence option. I would want to know the answers to a couple of questions before I could answer it. Who is making the decisions on players who are being brought in, if CC has asked for us to bring in Keogh and Holmes in January, I would slide towards out. I would also want to know about the injury situation. Are all the injuries mainly down to the intense training routine, and if they are, are we still persisting with the intensity in training and risking more and more injuries. If the answer to that is YES, then its 100% out. The injury and mental situation would be much, much better if Bromby had not got rid of Dr Iga. For the saving on his salary, which was a nice wage, but not excessive for his talents, we would undoubtedly have more players available and performaning better than the current lot are.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Feb 14, 2021 1:00:20 GMT 1
Agreed, but the players themselves are also responsible. It was a shit show from everyone. Totally. That side had a mixture of players who are just off form, players who dont care less and players who make endless stupid errors. If I see Mbenza bottle out of another physical challenge Im going to kick my screen in! A 5 year old girl would beat him in a tackle. If I see Bacuna get the ball and instantly think having it means he can pretend to be gods gift again Ill kick it in again.. like hes trying to be SOOO fucking casual because hes just SOOO fucking good he doesn't have to try that hard. Oh yeah Bacuna,, just look cool, slow it down,, let them get right on top of you because youre the man.. and you're just toying with them because youre different gravy... oh hang on, no, theyve just easily taken it off you.. or youve just casually passed it straight to them, you overly arrogant prick. Why dont you spend less time perfecting your latest stupid haircut and more time focusing on being a footballer and maybe realise rather than looking like Lionel bloddy Messi, you spend most of every game looking like a league 2 player! The sooner those two leave this club the better. And pritchard.. another one. I cant fault his effort.. he seems to really try.. but christ he offers nothing. I had patience with him but its gone now. What a shadow of the player he was at Norwich and brentford he is. And campbell. Wants to be the tough guy. The aggressive one. Does he not realise that just fouling defenders all the time kills the attack. Is he stupid? Supposed to be an experienced player.. youve got Stroud.. a shit ref if ever there was one.. and hes giving a free kick everytime a player falls over... so lets keep shoving them over Fraser.. that'll work! Picked them 4 out because theyre the ones that really piss me off. But I could rant about Pipa's defending or a whole host of other things. That 2nd half performance by those players was a disgrace.. the lot of them. It's all there or thereabouts right. Careless and couldn't care less about sums the team up and has done for a long, long time now. We are not good enough for 2 players to score a goal and do absolutely nothing else, today proves it. Why 'play' a big centre forward at the game he wants you to play? Its like pushing up to half way with a lightning quick forward? Or standing off a really tricky winger and letting him have a right good run at you everytime. Our seasoned pros make these mistakes every week.. So many real basic errors every game with the absolute bleeding horror shows of advanced suicidal defending chucked in, means nobody cares enough. You know what's coming, you can see it happening and it's like a slow mo car crash week after week. As soon as they scored the best we were going to get was a draw, we were not scoring again. We are finding new and horrible ways of losing games. The inevitable conclusion is , either the fear of dropping a bollock by some players will become strong or those that cant be arsed will all start surrendering by injury. The millwall game was incredibly strange to watch, we seemed to openly play for a 0 1 home defeat? We followed it by getting back in the game at Luton and then doing nothing Its downhill fast.
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est1908
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by est1908 on Feb 14, 2021 1:11:02 GMT 1
Oh, another poll. Fantastic....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 1:13:18 GMT 1
Taken some more time to think about today and Carlos fault or not we looked like a side completely destroyed of confidence and belief, I think the players have given up on him.
I hate chopping and changing but can’t see him turning this around, sadly has to go for me just so we avoid league 1 hopefully but the dross in our squad Bacuna etc can get in the bin this summer.
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Post by Convictatthemac on Feb 14, 2021 6:11:38 GMT 1
Agreed, but the players themselves are also responsible. It was a shit show from everyone. Totally. That side had a mixture of players who are just off form, players who dont care less and players who make endless stupid errors. If I see Mbenza bottle out of another physical challenge Im going to kick my screen in! A 5 year old girl would beat him in a tackle. If I see Bacuna get the ball and instantly think having it means he can pretend to be gods gift again Ill kick it in again.. like hes trying to be SOOO fucking casual because hes just SOOO fucking good he doesn't have to try that hard. Oh yeah Bacuna,, just look cool, slow it down,, let them get right on top of you because youre the man.. and you're just toying with them because youre different gravy... oh hang on, no, theyve just easily taken it off you.. or youve just casually passed it straight to them, you overly arrogant prick. Why dont you spend less time perfecting your latest stupid haircut and more time focusing on being a footballer and maybe realise rather than looking like Lionel bloddy Messi, you spend most of every game looking like a league 2 player! The sooner those two leave this club the better. And pritchard.. another one. I cant fault his effort.. he seems to really try.. but christ he offers nothing. I had patience with him but its gone now. What a shadow of the player he was at Norwich and brentford he is. And campbell. Wants to be the tough guy. The aggressive one. Does he not realise that just fouling defenders all the time kills the attack. Is he stupid? Supposed to be an experienced player.. youve got Stroud.. a shit ref if ever there was one.. and hes giving a free kick everytime a player falls over... so lets keep shoving them over Fraser.. that'll work! Picked them 4 out because theyre the ones that really piss me off. But I could rant about Pipa's defending or a whole host of other things. That 2nd half performance by those players was a disgrace.. the lot of them. That covers it. Something has happened during the transfer window that has caused Mbenza to revert to his old self. What a soft prick. CC has given him another chance against many fans wishes and the moment he has a set back he treats the one bloke who has shown faith in him with that irreverent performance. Mbenza and Baccuna are absolutely toxic to this football club. Sacking CC isn’t the answer and Mbenza and Baccuna need binning off now to train with the u/17’s. They need to be playing no part in the first team. Defense is all about effort and those two don’t put nearly enough into defending for the blue and white shirt. I don’t want Pritchard near the team either. Town going into the back half of the season with Mbenza, Baccuna and Pritchard is what will drag us down, not CC.
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Post by sociallydistant on Feb 14, 2021 8:27:40 GMT 1
Totally. That side had a mixture of players who are just off form, players who dont care less and players who make endless stupid errors. If I see Mbenza bottle out of another physical challenge Im going to kick my screen in! A 5 year old girl would beat him in a tackle. If I see Bacuna get the ball and instantly think having it means he can pretend to be gods gift again Ill kick it in again.. like hes trying to be SOOO fucking casual because hes just SOOO fucking good he doesn't have to try that hard. Oh yeah Bacuna,, just look cool, slow it down,, let them get right on top of you because youre the man.. and you're just toying with them because youre different gravy... oh hang on, no, theyve just easily taken it off you.. or youve just casually passed it straight to them, you overly arrogant prick. Why dont you spend less time perfecting your latest stupid haircut and more time focusing on being a footballer and maybe realise rather than looking like Lionel bloddy Messi, you spend most of every game looking like a league 2 player! The sooner those two leave this club the better. And pritchard.. another one. I cant fault his effort.. he seems to really try.. but christ he offers nothing. I had patience with him but its gone now. What a shadow of the player he was at Norwich and brentford he is. And campbell. Wants to be the tough guy. The aggressive one. Does he not realise that just fouling defenders all the time kills the attack. Is he stupid? Supposed to be an experienced player.. youve got Stroud.. a shit ref if ever there was one.. and hes giving a free kick everytime a player falls over... so lets keep shoving them over Fraser.. that'll work! Picked them 4 out because theyre the ones that really piss me off. But I could rant about Pipa's defending or a whole host of other things. That 2nd half performance by those players was a disgrace.. the lot of them. That covers it. Something has happened during the transfer window that has caused Mbenza to revert to his old self. What a soft prick. CC has given him another chance against many fans wishes and the moment he has a set back he treats the one bloke who has shown faith in him with that irreverent performance. Mbenza and Baccuna are absolutely toxic to this football club. Sacking CC isn’t the answer and Mbenza and Baccuna need binning off now to train with the u/17’s. They need to be playing no part in the first team. Defense is all about effort and those two don’t put nearly enough into defending for the blue and white shirt. I don’t want Pritchard near the team either. Town going into the back half of the season with Mbenza, Baccuna and Pritchard is what will drag us down, not CC. God help us if you single out the two goal scorers as the root of our problems.
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Feb 14, 2021 9:25:09 GMT 1
2-0 up to the worse team in the league by a mile. Can we see it out? Can we bollocks. So naive at the back. Keogh has come in and is miles off the pace and we’ve got Stearman on the bench. Pipa and O’Brien were getting exposed all match long. Our defending is abysmal.
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Post by Uddersfield on Feb 14, 2021 9:47:31 GMT 1
That covers it. Something has happened during the transfer window that has caused Mbenza to revert to his old self. What a soft prick. CC has given him another chance against many fans wishes and the moment he has a set back he treats the one bloke who has shown faith in him with that irreverent performance. Mbenza and Baccuna are absolutely toxic to this football club. Sacking CC isn’t the answer and Mbenza and Baccuna need binning off now to train with the u/17’s. They need to be playing no part in the first team. Defense is all about effort and those two don’t put nearly enough into defending for the blue and white shirt. I don’t want Pritchard near the team either. Town going into the back half of the season with Mbenza, Baccuna and Pritchard is what will drag us down, not CC. God help us if you single out the two goal scorers as the root of our problems. I think he has a point. Bacuna is one of the most bone idle selfish players in our team. Just look at his Instagram.. plastering his goal all over it despite putting in a 4/10 performance and losing to bottom of the league. He needs binning, immediately.
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H6dds
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by H6dds on Feb 14, 2021 9:53:56 GMT 1
Would be surprised if Bacuna is still here next season
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Post by KiwiPom on Feb 14, 2021 9:55:23 GMT 1
Would be surprised if Bacuna is still here next season I live in hope.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Feb 14, 2021 10:05:53 GMT 1
After we lose to the smoggies on Tues, can we change our minds? (In the Carlos poll)
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Post by dugnet on Feb 14, 2021 10:09:24 GMT 1
I haven't voted as I genuinely don't know the answer.
I would note this:
Injuries have certainly disrupted the progress that was evident. The alarming thing for me is the lack of heart, spirit and belief in the players. This is about collective responsibility but more importantly motivation. Form looking confident and content these players look timid, unsure, nervous and, in some cases, like they're hiding. This is all about the atmosphere on the training ground and the pitch.
There can be no doubt we have players we would prefer to move out, and they know they are going, which isn't easy. However in December people still had a smile on their face, now it's heads down.
Carlos maybe a fine technical coach but is he a motivator, communicator and people manager?
I think it will be a minor miracle if we stay up based on yesterday. Would someone else do better? Maybe they could eke out the 5 wins and a couple of draws needed. Carlos needs to find ways of winning games of football.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Feb 14, 2021 10:09:59 GMT 1
Taken some more time to think about today and Carlos fault or not we looked like a side completely destroyed of confidence and belief, I think the players have given up on him. I hate chopping and changing but can’t see him turning this around, sadly has to go for me just so we avoid league 1 hopefully but the dross in our squad Bacuna etc can get in the bin this summer. And this squad with another manager will avoid the drop how??,, We have been pretty poor under 4 managers now. Have had at least 3 of them on the touchline shouting instructions, jumping up and down and being pretty much ignored by the superstars mooching about purporting to be championship players on big wages? Gotta want to save yourself from relegation a manager cant play. Some of these clowns are just turning up because they have to, watch the injuries mount up..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 10:15:37 GMT 1
Taken some more time to think about today and Carlos fault or not we looked like a side completely destroyed of confidence and belief, I think the players have given up on him. I hate chopping and changing but can’t see him turning this around, sadly has to go for me just so we avoid league 1 hopefully but the dross in our squad Bacuna etc can get in the bin this summer. And this squad with another manager will avoid the drop how??,, We have been pretty poor under 4 managers now. Have had at least 3 of them on the touchline shouting instructions, jumping up and down and being pretty much ignored by the superstars mooching about purporting to be championship players on big wages? Gotta want to save yourself from relegation a manager cant play. Some of these clowns are just turning up because they have to, watch the injuries mount up.. Fair points, don’t disagree with any of them. Take it we just accept relegation now and see what league one brings.
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Post by thomo on Feb 14, 2021 10:15:53 GMT 1
The fact that we can't defend is solely down to Carlos. I think the players themselves carry some responsibility too. The fact we can’t defend is primarily because we’ve signed shite like Keogh, Sarr, Stearman and Elphick. I know the latter two weren’t playing yesterday but those ageing defenders were always going to be injury prone. Their unavailability is a symptom of our penny pinching recruitment and a driving force behind our shite defence. And Sarr was clearly not up to the job from his time at Charlton. Surely buying two proven championship level defenders in their prime would have worked out cheaper than those 4?
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chinaski
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Post by chinaski on Feb 14, 2021 10:20:24 GMT 1
The bloke has only been here a few months. We’re having a shit spell but he’s got fuck all to work with.
I’m hoping Hoyle has a serious think whether having more money than he or several generations could spend is more important than leaving a positive legacy at the club.
All would be forgotten if he sent Phil back to chasing ambulances and started getting behind the club again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 10:25:03 GMT 1
The bloke has only been here a few months. We’re having a shit spell but he’s got fuck all to work with. I’m hoping Hoyle has a serious think whether having more money than he or several generations could spend is more important than leaving a positive legacy at the club. All would be forgotten if he sent Phil back to chasing ambulances and started getting behind the club again. Hoyle can do one too, Stuart Webber found us Wagner, mooy agent approached us for him to move here was nothing to do with Hoyle, we went up on a bunch of free transfers, hefele Lowe with a couple of cheap signings, which considering what we had received for the likes of butterfield (5 million) etc 1.8 for Schindler and a loan to buy for kachunga wasn’t exactly big spending. That bloke is the source of all these problems taking us to the Prem spending money on a load of dross then demanding his money back for it, who buys a football club to expect to get your money back at the end, Derby chairman accepted 200 million of losses. Anyway that’s my final rant, good luck Carlos I hope we don’t go down but looks inevitable after yesterday.
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Post by Convictatthemac on Feb 14, 2021 10:30:09 GMT 1
That covers it. Something has happened during the transfer window that has caused Mbenza to revert to his old self. What a soft prick. CC has given him another chance against many fans wishes and the moment he has a set back he treats the one bloke who has shown faith in him with that irreverent performance. Mbenza and Baccuna are absolutely toxic to this football club. Sacking CC isn’t the answer and Mbenza and Baccuna need binning off now to train with the u/17’s. They need to be playing no part in the first team. Defense is all about effort and those two don’t put nearly enough into defending for the blue and white shirt. I don’t want Pritchard near the team either. Town going into the back half of the season with Mbenza, Baccuna and Pritchard is what will drag us down, not CC. God help us if you single out the two goal scorers as the root of our problems. Yes they both scored. But the game is also about other disciplines and goes for 90 minutes. If we can’t play out from the back then that’s also an indication there’s not enough movement forward of our back line. In the end the ball just kept coming back. I think these players switch off all too often.
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Post by ball on Feb 14, 2021 10:37:42 GMT 1
Carlos is clearly a good coach, but he’s spineless. Accepting allowing transfers to be decided around him when they’re draining his squad of first team players is criminal. Even if he keeps us up, I wouldn’t feel confident in him driving us forward in a new direction. Not the sort of bloke you want to grab a situation by the horns and turn it around. That said the blokes above him clearly want this puppet won’t question them or make life difficult
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Post by galpharm2400 on Feb 14, 2021 10:40:51 GMT 1
And this squad with another manager will avoid the drop how??,, We have been pretty poor under 4 managers now. Have had at least 3 of them on the touchline shouting instructions, jumping up and down and being pretty much ignored by the superstars mooching about purporting to be championship players on big wages? Gotta want to save yourself from relegation a manager cant play. Some of these clowns are just turning up because they have to, watch the injuries mount up.. Fair points, don’t disagree with any of them. Take it we just accept relegation now and see what league one brings. Has to be a players response. New manager or not I'm not sure there is the bollocks there. It's going the same way as the premier season and Jesus on a good day could not have saved them. It's more hope that the squad get their shit together than any new voice coming in. Add in the injuries and we create the perfect storm to drop like a stone.
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chinaski
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Post by chinaski on Feb 14, 2021 10:41:50 GMT 1
The bloke has only been here a few months. We’re having a shit spell but he’s got fuck all to work with. I’m hoping Hoyle has a serious think whether having more money than he or several generations could spend is more important than leaving a positive legacy at the club. All would be forgotten if he sent Phil back to chasing ambulances and started getting behind the club again. Hoyle can do one too, Stuart Webber found us Wagner, mooy agent approached us for him to move here was nothing to do with Hoyle, we went up on a bunch of free transfers, hefele Lowe with a couple of cheap signings, which considering what we had received for the likes of butterfield (5 million) etc 1.8 for Schindler and a loan to buy for kachunga wasn’t exactly big spending. That bloke is the source of all these problems taking us to the Prem spending money on a load of dross then demanding his money back for it, who buys a football club to expect to get your money back at the end, Derby chairman accepted 200 million of losses. Anyway that’s my final rant, good luck Carlos I hope we don’t go down but looks inevitable after yesterday. I always trusted Hoyle. That’s the main thing. I know he’s gone back on that trust now by leaving us in this state but he’d still be infinitely preferable to PH for me. The other thing is he would genuinely have the financial clout to implement a successful Brentford style model at the club. That model requires a level of speculation that Phil simply cannot afford. If DH could assemble a proper recruitment team and fund them appropriately, there’s no reason we couldn’t emulate Brentford’s consistent improvement and stability. PH mentioned in the recent statement they he effectively relies on his other businesses doing well to fund HTAFC. That’s not how it works. You get filthy rich and THEN prick around at a football club because you don’t expect to see any of the money again! There’s an opportunity in these uncertain times to achieve dominance in this division for a fraction of the outlay it would have cost 2/3 years ago. But Dean is doing the opposite.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Feb 14, 2021 10:43:07 GMT 1
God help us if you single out the two goal scorers as the root of our problems. Yes they both scored. But the game is also about other disciplines and goes for 90 minutes. If we can’t play out from the back then that’s also an indication there’s not enough movement forward of our back line. In the end the ball just kept coming back. I think these players switch off all too often. A single striker scoring two goals and being invisible otherwise is one thing, 2 midfielders scoring a goal a piece and doing nothing at all else whilst we lose the game is totally different.
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