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Post by durhamterrier on Feb 21, 2021 13:37:41 GMT 1
A game I’d now class as must not lose after yesterday’s result . Hopefully Holmes and Keogh well up for it .
Surely keep the same starting 11 as gives off terrible vibes to academy players hoping to play well and earn a spot .
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Post by Teddington Ted on Feb 21, 2021 13:38:30 GMT 1
The lack of crowd will lower the chances of Keogh or Holmes getting carried away.
They’ll both know the best response is a good performance, I can’t see an empty stadium derailing that.
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Post by turbo2 on Feb 21, 2021 13:43:02 GMT 1
A game I’d now class as must not lose after yesterday’s result . Hopefully Holmes and Keogh well up for it . Surely keep the same starting 11 as gives off terrible vibes to academy players hoping to play well and earn a spot . I wouldn’t change anything. One of our best performances in the last two seasons. Toff being available again just strengthens the bench for me
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Post by durhamterrier on Feb 21, 2021 13:48:02 GMT 1
A game I’d now class as must not lose after yesterday’s result . Hopefully Holmes and Keogh well up for it . Surely keep the same starting 11 as gives off terrible vibes to academy players hoping to play well and earn a spot . I wouldn’t change anything. One of our best performances in the last two seasons. Toff being available again just strengthens the bench for me Completely agree . Imagine Derby’s right backs face if things are tight with 20 to go on we can bring Toffolo on . Been ages since we’ve had an element of game-changers to bring on
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Feb 21, 2021 14:37:51 GMT 1
Last time out at Pride Park...
So often a graveyard for Town hopes, the team battled hard in atrocious weather at Derby on 15th February 2020 to earn a well-merited draw through Harry Toffolo’s maiden goal for the club and, but for the post and a great late save from home ‘keeper Roos, it could have been a win.
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Post by Mecha Corte on Feb 21, 2021 15:29:16 GMT 1
My first visit to Derby would have been 1984, in the 2nd Division, I know we beat them 3-nil at home and I’m pretty sure we drew 1-1 at the Baseball Ground, I seem to remember Peter Taylor, without Brian Clough, was manager and he’d brought back both Archie Gemmil and Roy MacFarland as well as Bobby Davison. Was the ref David Ellery ? Definitely one of the well known ones at the time if it wasn’t him, gave them a penalty, Keith Mason, deputising for Brian Cox saved it, the ref said he moved early and let it be retaken, Mason saved it again, this time the ref booked him for moving early again and ordered a 3rd attempt, they swooped penalty takers and duly scored.
Just about sums up our visits to that part of the East Midlands, we must be due some good luck there eventually ?
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Post by sabailand on Feb 21, 2021 15:39:23 GMT 1
My first visit to Derby would have been 1984, in the 2nd Division, I know we beat them 3-nil at home and I’m pretty sure we drew 1-1 at the Baseball Ground, I seem to remember Peter Taylor, without Brian Clough, was manager and he’d brought back both Archie Gemmil and Roy MacFarland as well as Bobby Davison. Was the ref David Ellery ? Definitely one of the well known ones at the time if it wasn’t him, gave them a penalty, Keith Mason, deputising for Brian Cox saved it, the ref said he moved early and let it be retaken, Mason saved it again, this time the ref booked him for moving early again and ordered a 3rd attempt, they swooped penalty takers and duly scored. Just about sums up our visits to that part of the East Midlands, we must be due some good luck there eventually ? Yes i remember that game too primarily because of the penalty incident, Keith Mason played around 30 or so games for us and i thought he was a decent keeper, i think we scored a last minute equalizer in this game too.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 21, 2021 15:47:07 GMT 1
My first visit to Derby would have been 1984, in the 2nd Division, I know we beat them 3-nil at home and I’m pretty sure we drew 1-1 at the Baseball Ground, I seem to remember Peter Taylor, without Brian Clough, was manager and he’d brought back both Archie Gemmil and Roy MacFarland as well as Bobby Davison. Was the ref David Ellery ? Definitely one of the well known ones at the time if it wasn’t him, gave them a penalty, Keith Mason, deputising for Brian Cox saved it, the ref said he moved early and let it be retaken, Mason saved it again, this time the ref booked him for moving early again and ordered a 3rd attempt, they swooped penalty takers and duly scored. Just about sums up our visits to that part of the East Midlands, we must be due some good luck there eventually ? Derby were relegated to Division 3 at the end of the season.
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 21, 2021 15:49:06 GMT 1
Yes - will be very interesting. I can seriously see him keeping the starting lineup and starting a fully fit Toffolo on the bench - unthinkable a few weeks ago but how can you drop Rowe? Vellejo has to be a guaranteed starter now too - Holmes was pushing for being benched but that's out of the window after yesterday. You can't leave anyone out surely - except Schofield of course For sure! Got to have a look at Leutwiler now. Get Toffolo straight in that left CB role for me But that takes away our only commanding aerial presence and tbf Toffolo is no great shakes as a defender, like Pipa he's a lot better going forward than defending.
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Post by Mecha Corte on Feb 21, 2021 15:57:19 GMT 1
My first visit to Derby would have been 1984, in the 2nd Division, I know we beat them 3-nil at home and I’m pretty sure we drew 1-1 at the Baseball Ground, I seem to remember Peter Taylor, without Brian Clough, was manager and he’d brought back both Archie Gemmil and Roy MacFarland as well as Bobby Davison. Was the ref David Ellery ? Definitely one of the well known ones at the time if it wasn’t him, gave them a penalty, Keith Mason, deputising for Brian Cox saved it, the ref said he moved early and let it be retaken, Mason saved it again, this time the ref booked him for moving early again and ordered a 3rd attempt, they swooped penalty takers and duly scored. Just about sums up our visits to that part of the East Midlands, we must be due some good luck there eventually ? Yes i remember that game too primarily because of the penalty incident, Keith Mason played around 30 or so games for us and i thought he was a decent keeper, i think we scored a last minute equalizer in this game too. I remember him as half decent but don’t remember him either joining or going elsewhere ? Wasn’t he a University Graduate or something similar ? ( like Iffy Onoura ) Back to Derby and they were relegated to the 3rd tier at the end of this season, ten years after finishing as League Champions, that’s got to be a record ? I know Man City are the only team to finish as Champions and then be relegated the following season but didn’t then drop again.
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Post by sabailand on Feb 21, 2021 16:44:56 GMT 1
Yes i remember that game too primarily because of the penalty incident, Keith Mason played around 30 or so games for us and i thought he was a decent keeper, i think we scored a last minute equalizer in this game too. I remember him as half decent but don’t remember him either joining or going elsewhere ? Wasn’t he a University Graduate or something similar ? ( like Iffy Onoura ) Back to Derby and they were relegated to the 3rd tier at the end of this season, ten years after finishing as League Champions, that’s got to be a record ? I know Man City are the only team to finish as Champions and then be relegated the following season but didn’t then drop again. Signed him from Leicester in 82 and he didnt play for another league club when he left us, works (or did) in the heating trade now. As well as Roy Mcfarland Archie Gemmil and Bobby Davison i remember Kenny Burns also played for them, in fact im almost certain he was playing in the game in question.
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Post by jumpersandgoalposts on Feb 21, 2021 16:47:00 GMT 1
For sure! Got to have a look at Leutwiler now. Get Toffolo straight in that left CB role for me But that takes away our only commanding aerial presence and tbf Toffolo is no great shakes as a defender, like Pipa he's a lot better going forward than defending. I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Feb 21, 2021 16:51:07 GMT 1
But that takes away our only commanding aerial presence and tbf Toffolo is no great shakes as a defender, like Pipa he's a lot better going forward than defending. I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators. Sarr is not much of a presence? What an absolute joke. He has presence in both defence and attack at set plays.
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 21, 2021 16:54:43 GMT 1
But that takes away our only commanding aerial presence and tbf Toffolo is no great shakes as a defender, like Pipa he's a lot better going forward than defending. I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators. It depends on what system we play, if he keeps 3 at the back like yesterday Toffolo is on the bench, if Rowe has gained confidence due to his performances in the last 2 games there's no point knocking it by dropping him. If he plays a back 4 then put Toff at LB , Vallejo would probably drop out (unluckily) and Rowe goes into the front 3.
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,368
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Post by Dan on Feb 21, 2021 16:56:25 GMT 1
I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators. Sarr is not much of a presence? What an absolute joke. He has presence in both defence and attack at set plays. Yes that was one of the weirder posts I've seen on here in the last few weeks and that's saying something
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 21, 2021 16:57:59 GMT 1
Yes i remember that game too primarily because of the penalty incident, Keith Mason played around 30 or so games for us and i thought he was a decent keeper, i think we scored a last minute equalizer in this game too. I remember him as half decent but don’t remember him either joining or going elsewhere ? Wasn’t he a University Graduate or something similar ? ( like Iffy Onoura ) Back to Derby and they were relegated to the 3rd tier at the end of this season, ten years after finishing as League Champions, that’s got to be a record ? I know Man City are the only team to finish as Champions and then be relegated the following season but didn’t then drop again. Mason played for Colne when they beat Emley in the FA Vase final. My mate and I had seats next to the Royal Box and had had a few beforehand. I had to stop him trying to get to Mason when he collected his medal as he'd tried tapping up my mates then missus, in a club, while he was at Town
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Post by jumpersandgoalposts on Feb 21, 2021 16:58:46 GMT 1
I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators. Sarr is not much of a presence? What an absolute joke. He has presence in both defence and attack at set plays. He can't defend, being big doesn't make you a presence if you dont have the positional awareness and you make simple mistakes on a weekly basis. I really want Sarr to succeed and would be more than happy to eat my words as it will benefit us greatly, I was excited when he joined. Big, fast, can play on the floor a bit it's just his regular insane decision making that scares me. The pass straight across the face of goal against Middlesbrough just the most recent of many of these basic errors.
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Post by jumpersandgoalposts on Feb 21, 2021 17:04:46 GMT 1
Sarr is not much of a presence? What an absolute joke. He has presence in both defence and attack at set plays. Yes that was one of the weirder posts I've seen on here in the last few weeks and that's saying something I like him in the opposition box without a doubt just not in ours and as a defender where do his priorities lie? Your obviously confused about the difference between presence and size. As I say I want to eat my words sooner rather than later so fingers crossed he cuts out the Sunday league errors.
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Post by jumpersandgoalposts on Feb 21, 2021 17:09:06 GMT 1
I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators. It depends on what system we play, if he keeps 3 at the back like yesterday Toffolo is on the bench, if Rowe has gained confidence due to his performances in the last 2 games there's no point knocking it by dropping him. If he plays a back 4 then put Toff at LB , Vallejo would probably drop out (unluckily) and Rowe goes into the front 3. Ye ide like to see Rowe in the front three while Koroma is out but it would be a real shame to drop Vallejo after yesterday's performance, he really gave us that impetus moving from back to front. With our current available players a back three seems the best option at the moment.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Feb 21, 2021 17:24:50 GMT 1
Holmes has surely got something to prove to Rooney and perfect timing.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Feb 21, 2021 17:34:01 GMT 1
But that takes away our only commanding aerial presence and tbf Toffolo is no great shakes as a defender, like Pipa he's a lot better going forward than defending. I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators.Toffolo LB, Rowe on the wing either in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1. Not saying that's necessarily what I'd do for Derby, but it's an option.
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Post by hypotenuse on Feb 21, 2021 17:37:32 GMT 1
My first visit to Derby would have been 1984, in the 2nd Division, I know we beat them 3-nil at home and I’m pretty sure we drew 1-1 at the Baseball Ground, I seem to remember Peter Taylor, without Brian Clough, was manager and he’d brought back both Archie Gemmil and Roy MacFarland as well as Bobby Davison. Was the ref David Ellery ? Definitely one of the well known ones at the time if it wasn’t him, gave them a penalty, Keith Mason, deputising for Brian Cox saved it, the ref said he moved early and let it be retaken, Mason saved it again, this time the ref booked him for moving early again and ordered a 3rd attempt, they swooped penalty takers and duly scored. Just about sums up our visits to that part of the East Midlands, we must be due some good luck there eventually ? I remember that game at the Baseball Ground pretty well. Midweek perhaps? Think they were struggling and we were mid-table and comfortably the better side until Elleray decided to intervene. I remember Kenny Burns was playing for them and, as I was near the front, clearly recall him saying to our young centre-forward (maybe Liam Robinson?) that he’d “break you’re fucking legs if you try to run past me” Ive a feeling that, in a 50+year spell, between about 1960 and 2015 that was pretty much our only league point away at Derby? Edit: our only point away between 1961 and 2017.
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Post by jumpersandgoalposts on Feb 21, 2021 17:45:54 GMT 1
I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators.Toffolo LB, Rowe on the wing either in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1. Not saying that's necessarily what I'd do for Derby, but it's an option. 4-2-3-1 could be an option allowing us to keep Holmes just in behind and Mbenza to the right it's just would Vallejo be able to operate the same with only two CBs? He really suits three so he can be that little more forward thinking. Dont think we could possibly change formation after last night like.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Feb 21, 2021 17:48:30 GMT 1
Sarr is not much of a presence? What an absolute joke. He has presence in both defence and attack at set plays. He can't defend, being big doesn't make you a presence if you dont have the positional awareness and you make simple mistakes on a weekly basis. I really want Sarr to succeed and would be more than happy to eat my words as it will benefit us greatly, I was excited when he joined. Big, fast, can play on the floor a bit it's just his regular insane decision making that scares me. The pass straight across the face of goal against Middlesbrough just the most recent of many of these basic errors. Have you been watching the games? I ask only because you have neglected to mention the many headed clearances he makes in every game he’s played since joining us. That’s presence. Have a look at the completed passes stats for the Championship - there’s not many players ahead of him. Of course he makes a passing error now and again, but I’ll accept that personally because I feel he’s the kind of Centre Half we have needed for a long time.
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Post by hypotenuse on Feb 21, 2021 17:52:11 GMT 1
He can't defend, being big doesn't make you a presence if you dont have the positional awareness and you make simple mistakes on a weekly basis. I really want Sarr to succeed and would be more than happy to eat my words as it will benefit us greatly, I was excited when he joined. Big, fast, can play on the floor a bit it's just his regular insane decision making that scares me. The pass straight across the face of goal against Middlesbrough just the most recent of many of these basic errors. Have you been watching the games? I ask only because you have neglected to mention the many headed clearances he makes in every game he’s played since joining us. That’s presence. Have a look at the completed passes stats for the Championship - there’s not many players ahead of him. Of course he makes a passing error now and again, but I’ll accept that personally because I feel he’s the kind of Centre Half we have needed for a long time. Think only Ethan Pinnock at Brentford is ahead of Sarr in passing.
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Post by jumpersandgoalposts on Feb 21, 2021 18:04:03 GMT 1
He can't defend, being big doesn't make you a presence if you dont have the positional awareness and you make simple mistakes on a weekly basis. I really want Sarr to succeed and would be more than happy to eat my words as it will benefit us greatly, I was excited when he joined. Big, fast, can play on the floor a bit it's just his regular insane decision making that scares me. The pass straight across the face of goal against Middlesbrough just the most recent of many of these basic errors. Have you been watching the games? I ask only because you have neglected to mention the many headed clearances he makes in every game he’s played since joining us. That’s presence. Have a look at the completed passes stats for the Championship - there’s not many players ahead of him. Of course he makes a passing error now and again, but I’ll accept that personally because I feel he’s the kind of Centre Half we have needed for a long time. I'm not questioning his passing ability, he really is decent on the floor for a CB at this level. The reason I question his presence is because of the school boy errors he makes which is unsettling watching from home never mind if your playing alongside him. Maybe I'm being overly harsh, maybe my idea of presence differs to yours but were on here for a good debate, be boring af if there wasnt any 😂 and I'll be the first to praise him when he cuts these errors out. It just seems to be a common theme in all sports that if a player has size they must also have presence. Hogg has more presence and hes about a foot shorter. I also agree with you that he is the exact type of defender we need.
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Post by sabailand on Feb 21, 2021 18:07:14 GMT 1
My first visit to Derby would have been 1984, in the 2nd Division, I know we beat them 3-nil at home and I’m pretty sure we drew 1-1 at the Baseball Ground, I seem to remember Peter Taylor, without Brian Clough, was manager and he’d brought back both Archie Gemmil and Roy MacFarland as well as Bobby Davison. Was the ref David Ellery ? Definitely one of the well known ones at the time if it wasn’t him, gave them a penalty, Keith Mason, deputising for Brian Cox saved it, the ref said he moved early and let it be retaken, Mason saved it again, this time the ref booked him for moving early again and ordered a 3rd attempt, they swooped penalty takers and duly scored. Just about sums up our visits to that part of the East Midlands, we must be due some good luck there eventually ? I remember that game at the Baseball Ground pretty well. Midweek perhaps? Think they were struggling and we were mid-table and comfortably the better side until Elleray decided to intervene. I remember Kenny Burns was playing for them and, as I was near the front, clearly recall him saying to our young centre-forward (maybe Liam Robinson?) that he’d “break you’re fucking legs if you try to run past me” Ive a feeling that, in a 50+year spell, between about 1960 and 2015 that was pretty much our only league point away at Derby? Edit: our only point away between 1961 and 2017. It was definitely a saturday, 25th feb 1984 to be precise.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Feb 21, 2021 18:10:32 GMT 1
Have you been watching the games? I ask only because you have neglected to mention the many headed clearances he makes in every game he’s played since joining us. That’s presence. Have a look at the completed passes stats for the Championship - there’s not many players ahead of him. Of course he makes a passing error now and again, but I’ll accept that personally because I feel he’s the kind of Centre Half we have needed for a long time. I'm not questioning his passing ability, he really is decent on the floor for a CB at this level. The reason I question his presence is because of the school boy errors he makes which is unsettling watching from home never mind if your playing alongside him. Maybe I'm being overly harsh, maybe my idea of presence differs to yours but were on here for a good debate, be boring af if there wasnt any 😂 and I'll be the first to praise him when he cuts these errors out. It just seems to be a common theme in all sports that if a player has size they must also have presence. Hogg has more presence and hes about a foot shorter. I also agree with you that he is the exact type of defender we need. Dear Jumpers Whilst I do think you are being a little harsh, I respect you’re opinion. You obviously care about the team. - let’s hope after a few more good results, players will become more confident and cut out the errors you mention.
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Post by jumpersandgoalposts on Feb 21, 2021 18:29:40 GMT 1
I'm not questioning his passing ability, he really is decent on the floor for a CB at this level. The reason I question his presence is because of the school boy errors he makes which is unsettling watching from home never mind if your playing alongside him. Maybe I'm being overly harsh, maybe my idea of presence differs to yours but were on here for a good debate, be boring af if there wasnt any 😂 and I'll be the first to praise him when he cuts these errors out. It just seems to be a common theme in all sports that if a player has size they must also have presence. Hogg has more presence and hes about a foot shorter. I also agree with you that he is the exact type of defender we need. Dear Jumpers Whilst I do think you are being a little harsh, I respect you’re opinion. You obviously care about the team. - let’s hope after a few more good results, players will become more confident and cut out the errors you mention. Yes overton let's keep this confident play up and we will see the best of Sarr! I was perhaps overly excited when we signed him so I've been overly disappointed with some aspects of his play, harshly so, hes upset me is all 😂 UTT mate, roll on Derby
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Post by ACW on Feb 21, 2021 18:34:07 GMT 1
I wouldn't class Sarr as much of a presence, tall yes commanding no. I'm expecting Stearman back sooner rather than later and he is much more of a commanding CB. Yes Toffolo is a good attacking full back but I also trust him defensively more than Sarr and there is nothing stopping him from attacking (especially when we are on top or needing more forward drive) as he is an intelligent player and I would expect him to know when to pick his moments. He looked fine in that position earlier in the season. What would be your way of integrating him back into the side whilst keeping Rowe in a position he is showing signs of flourishing in? Toffolo is after all one of our classier operators. Sarr is not much of a presence? What an absolute joke. He has presence in both defence and attack at set plays. Agreed. Sarr's biggest strength is his size and heading ability. He has put them to great use defensively with some excellent last ditch tackles and headed clearances. He always the one who gets his head to lofted crosses. And, as you say, he's proved a threat at the other end too. It's when the ball is on the deck that he's liable to make a mistake, but that is nothing to do with a lack of presence. More a propensity for a cock up!
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