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Post by benhomly on Feb 25, 2021 0:51:35 GMT 1
The year we lost in the playoffs we would have gone up automatically if the play offs didnt exist wouldnt we? So OP is saying Rochdale is an example of a club more successful than us because it got promoted to st division for a season before being relegated again while we have been to wembley old an new, old Trafford and Cardiff for play off finals and had 2 seasons on the premier league during the same time. But in then says Everton clearly more successful because they couldn't win promotion ? Makes no sense Beat me to it, we would have been automatically promoted in 1991-92, 2003-04 and 2010-11 had it not been for the playoffs so that invalidates the argument for me
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Post by ACW on Feb 25, 2021 1:15:26 GMT 1
How can gaining promotion - by whatever means - be ever considered anything but successful?
We may gave plenty reasons as Town fans to denigrate our club - but promotions via play-offs? Give me fuckin' strength.
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Post by birchencliffe on Feb 25, 2021 9:00:47 GMT 1
Some clubs shit their britches at the sound of the words plays offs . Town are the play off Dons it one of the things our club excels at.
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Post by Mecha Corte on Feb 25, 2021 9:36:14 GMT 1
How can gaining promotion - by whatever means - be ever considered anything but successful? We may gave plenty reasons as Town fans to denigrate our club - but promotions via play-offs? Give me fuckin' strength. Before we’d heard of PH I have had stand up rows with Town fans who were adamant it proves Town are shite, no (automatic) promotion since the 80’s and we only fluke promotion after penalty shoot outs I’ve seen every promotion and relegation since winning Division 4 in 1979/80, and that was a truly special season but I’m convinced as a fan attending games the biggest high has got to be winning a play off final, the flip side is losing them hurts like stink as well, my 3 worst defeats would be Peterborough, twice and Birmingham at home - that felt like a play off because we were safe at kick off, the other relegations we knew were coming and got used to it.
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ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by ambryboy on Feb 25, 2021 9:45:42 GMT 1
So your barometer of success is automatic promotion? Seems an odd way to berate the club you support? The play-offs are there for a purpose, all clubs know the rules. If they hadn't existed, do you think Wagner would have approached the last few games the other season differently, in the desire to secure third place? The play offs were brought in to make things more exciting give clubs more to play for, keep interest for longer. They have been a good thing, don't get me wrong. Off course the barometer of success is winning automatic promotion, you don't say you got the FA Cup semi final and count it as success do you?We would. Getting to the 4th round would warrant an open top bus parade with our recent record.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Feb 25, 2021 12:29:00 GMT 1
It’s not that winning the playoffs isn’t a wonderful achievement it’s the winning the league or finishing 2nd is a better achievement. ( to have not done this in 40 years - with the majority spent in lower divisions for a club our size is very poor). I loved going up via playoffs probably no better way to do it as a fan but our 40 year record at finishing in the top 2 given our circumstances is poor.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Feb 25, 2021 12:37:18 GMT 1
I wouldn't swap our playoff wins for second place finishes, no way!
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 25, 2021 13:05:33 GMT 1
I wouldn't swap our playoff wins for second place finishes, no way! You're just talking from the pleasure a play off final victory brings, if you finish 1st or 2nd, it's done with then, no need for the vagaries of the play offs.
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Post by benhomly on Feb 25, 2021 13:07:17 GMT 1
It’s not that winning the playoffs isn’t a wonderful achievement it’s the winning the league or finishing 2nd is a better achievement. ( to have not done this in 40 years - with the majority spent in lower divisions for a club our size is very poor). I loved going up via playoffs probably no better way to do it as a fan but our 40 year record at finishing in the top 2 given our circumstances is poor. I presume by lower divisions you mean L1 & L2? If you take the last 40 seasons it's actually exactly 50:50. The first 2 of those seasons in the lower divisions we were on the way up under Buxton and finished 3rd in 82-83 for our last automatic (although on another post I did point out we'd have had automatic in 3 seasons since then if it wasn't for the play-offs) Our next spell came from 88-89 following that disastrous season under MacDonald and lasted 7 seasons (had an 8th, 3rd and 5th in that time). Not great but in contention 3 out of 7 including 2 play off campaigns and an Autoglass final at Wembley. Then came the horrible run of 11 seasons which included our administration period but still included a 3rd place, 3 4th's and 2 6th's so were in serious contention for 6 of those 11 seasons and were top 10 in 3 of the others. Of course Hoyle was on the scene towards the end of that run and that spell for me is the only poor one because with the right appointments while we were in L1 we'd have got out of it far quicker than we actually did. But until Hoyle came along there was no money in the club so it doesn't really matter how 'big' a club we were. Look at Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich, Bolton etc.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Feb 25, 2021 13:29:55 GMT 1
It’s not that winning the playoffs isn’t a wonderful achievement it’s the winning the league or finishing 2nd is a better achievement. ( to have not done this in 40 years - with the majority spent in lower divisions for a club our size is very poor). I loved going up via playoffs probably no better way to do it as a fan but our 40 year record at finishing in the top 2 given our circumstances is poor. I presume by lower divisions you mean L1 & L2? If you take the last 40 seasons it's actually exactly 50:50. The first 2 of those seasons in the lower divisions we were on the way up under Buxton and finished 3rd in 82-83 for our last automatic (although on another post I did point out we'd have had automatic in 3 seasons since then if it wasn't for the play-offs) Our next spell came from 88-89 following that disastrous season under MacDonald and lasted 7 seasons (had an 8th, 3rd and 5th in that time). Not great but in contention 3 out of 7 including 2 play off campaigns and an Autoglass final at Wembley. Then came the horrible run of 11 seasons which included our administration period but still included a 3rd place, 3 4th's and 2 6th's so were in serious contention for 6 of those 11 seasons and were top 10 in 3 of the others. Of course Hoyle was on the scene towards the end of that run and that spell for me is the only poor one because with the right appointments while we were in L1 we'd have got out of it far quicker than we actually did. But until Hoyle came along there was no money in the club so it doesn't really matter how 'big' a club we were. Look at Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich, Bolton etc. Of course it matters a bigger club brings in bigger revenue, and will gain automatic ( or should) more times than a smaller club. Naming some bigger clubs in the lower divisions means nothing . Sunderland have spent 3 seasons including this one in the last 40 years in the 3rd tier, Whilst Ipswich just 2 seasons in 40 years but irrelevant of all that. We haven’t achieved automatic in 40 years even though as you say we’ve spent half of that at least in the lower divisions, are you honestly saying that is not very good. We are a bigger club than that fan base wise.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Feb 25, 2021 13:42:39 GMT 1
I wouldn't swap our playoff wins for second place finishes, no way! You're just talking from the pleasure a play off final victory brings, if you finish 1st or 2nd, it's done with then, no need for the vagaries of the play offs. Of course. What pleasure does finishing 2nd bring? I've seen us win at the old Wembley, the new Wembley twice & the Millennium stadium, even the defeat at Old Trafford seeing the Stretford end decked out in blue & white. Where else would you see 25, 30 or 40k town fans in one place & have the euphoria of seeing your team promoted on the biggest stage with the players parading round the pitch with a trophy at the end? That's before I even mention the semi finals where you get to see your team win through to play at some of the biggest stadiums in the UK. Can't beat abit of playoff drama.
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Post by benhomly on Feb 25, 2021 13:49:16 GMT 1
I presume by lower divisions you mean L1 & L2? If you take the last 40 seasons it's actually exactly 50:50. The first 2 of those seasons in the lower divisions we were on the way up under Buxton and finished 3rd in 82-83 for our last automatic (although on another post I did point out we'd have had automatic in 3 seasons since then if it wasn't for the play-offs) Our next spell came from 88-89 following that disastrous season under MacDonald and lasted 7 seasons (had an 8th, 3rd and 5th in that time). Not great but in contention 3 out of 7 including 2 play off campaigns and an Autoglass final at Wembley. Then came the horrible run of 11 seasons which included our administration period but still included a 3rd place, 3 4th's and 2 6th's so were in serious contention for 6 of those 11 seasons and were top 10 in 3 of the others. Of course Hoyle was on the scene towards the end of that run and that spell for me is the only poor one because with the right appointments while we were in L1 we'd have got out of it far quicker than we actually did. But until Hoyle came along there was no money in the club so it doesn't really matter how 'big' a club we were. Look at Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich, Bolton etc. Of course it matters a bigger club brings in bigger revenue, and will gain automatic ( or should) more times than a smaller club. Naming some bigger clubs in the lower divisions means nothing . Sunderland have spent 3 seasons including this one in the last 40 years in the 3rd tier, Whilst Ipswich just 2 seasons in 40 years but irrelevant of all that. We haven’t achieved automatic in 40 years even though as you say we’ve spent half of that at least in the lower divisions, are you honestly saying that is not very good. We are a bigger club than that fan base wise. It's not great but I've been going 50 years and I've stuck with it and have obviously enjoyed the majority of it or I'd have stopped going. Would I have settled for 50 years in the top flight battling against relegation for most of them? Probably not. For me those seasons under Buxton and Warnock and even Jackson beat any dour relegation battles we've had to endure in the Championship of late. There's also something to be said for going to places like York, Stockport, Bury, Hereford etc, etc and outnumbering the home fans. Think it was Steve Harkness we had on loan from Liverpool and he couldn't believe the support we got away from home. I appreciate it's not for everyone but it's done for me for 50 years.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Feb 25, 2021 13:55:29 GMT 1
It's not great but I've been going 50 years and I've stuck with it and have obviously enjoyed the majority of it or I'd have stopped going. Would I have settled for 50 years in the top flight battling against relegation for most of them? Probably not. For me those seasons under Buxton and Warnock and even Jackson beat any dour relegation battles we've had to endure in the Championship of late. There's also something to be said for going to places like York, Stockport, Bury, Hereford etc, etc and outnumbering the home fans. Think it was Steve Harkness we had on loan from Liverpool and he couldn't believe the support we got away from home. I appreciate it's not for everyone but it's done for me for 50 years. At no point have or would I disagree with anything you’ve said there, I’ve supported town all over the country and loved the ups and downs it’s part and parcel of a supporting a club. The playoffs are high on my list of most enjoyable days in my life, all I was trying to get across is that 40 years for a club our size without an automatic promotion is very poor, doesn’t stop me enjoying and loving this great club of ours UTT.
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Post by richhtfc on Feb 25, 2021 13:56:36 GMT 1
One of the weirdest arguments ever on here (which is saying something.) Essentially, our success, isn’t successful enough.... I’d go and support someone else if you can’t enjoy the rollercoaster that is supporting this club.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 13:58:33 GMT 1
Play offs aren't successful? There's me thinking it led to promotion, isn't promotion a success?
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Post by brighousebandbred on Feb 25, 2021 14:01:02 GMT 1
One of the weirdest arguments ever on here (which is saying something.) Essentially, our success, isn’t successful enough.... I’d go and support someone else if you can’t enjoy the rollercoaster that is supporting this club. Nobody as said that your making it up as you go along, read the above, all that’s been said is 40 years for a club our size is very poor especially as half of those have been in bottom 2 divisions. Have I or others said they’ve not had great pleasure in those 40 years NO. High horse get off spring to mind. Hardly any fans would be left if you told them not to attend again if they are disappointed that in 40 years we never gained automatic.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Feb 25, 2021 14:10:02 GMT 1
Play offs aren't successful? There's me thinking it led to promotion, isn't promotion a success? You just go off on a tangent, make up your own thread. Nobody as said the play offs aren’t successful. The point that’s been made over and over is that 40 years for a club our size of which half of those have been spent in bottom 2 divisions without automatic promotion isn’t very good. Do you think 40 years for a club our size and spending half of those in bottom 2 divisions without an automatic honestly is very good.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 14:14:08 GMT 1
Play offs aren't successful? There's me thinking it led to promotion, isn't promotion a success? You just go off on a tangent, make up your own thread. Nobody as said the play offs aren’t successful. The point that’s been made over and over is that 40 years for a club our size of which half of those have been spent in bottom 2 divisions without automatic promotion isn’t very good. Do you think 40 years for a club our size and spending half of those in bottom 2 divisions without an automatic honestly is very good. Whether it's automatic or not, promotion is promotion and success is measured on how many promotions you've had. We've had a lot of success over the past 40 years, it doesn't matter where or how it's been done.
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Post by richhtfc on Feb 25, 2021 14:14:24 GMT 1
One of the weirdest arguments ever on here (which is saying something.) Essentially, our success, isn’t successful enough.... I’d go and support someone else if you can’t enjoy the rollercoaster that is supporting this club. Nobody as said that your making it up as you go along, read the above, all that’s been said is 40 years for a club our size is very poor especially as half of those have been in bottom 2 divisions. Have I or others said they’ve not had great pleasure in those 40 years NO. High horse get off spring to mind. Hardly any fans would be left if you told them not to attend again if they are disappointed that in 40 years we never gained automatic. High horse? Wasn’t really disagreeing with your posts, more those using it as another stick to beat the club with.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Feb 25, 2021 14:18:17 GMT 1
Nobody as said that your making it up as you go along, read the above, all that’s been said is 40 years for a club our size is very poor especially as half of those have been in bottom 2 divisions. Have I or others said they’ve not had great pleasure in those 40 years NO. High horse get off spring to mind. Hardly any fans would be left if you told them not to attend again if they are disappointed that in 40 years we never gained automatic. High horse? Wasn’t really disagreeing with your posts, more those using it as another stick to beat the club with. I get that people are hitting out at the club at moment, don’t know if that’s the case for others but me I’m just replying to the thread genuinely. Love this club, love the memories they’ve thrown up for me, but I also feel in the last 40 years not gaining automatic isn’t very good.
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Post by terriers2000 on Feb 25, 2021 14:38:11 GMT 1
Apparently the away fans will have the whole away end from next season so no south stand , I've seen people on twitter talking on it so idk if its true or false
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 25, 2021 15:05:49 GMT 1
Apparently the away fans will have the whole away end from next season so no south stand , I've seen people on twitter talking on it so idk if its true or false How so? That would drastically reduce capacity for Town fans and lose all the atmosphere.
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Post by sociallydistant on Feb 25, 2021 15:11:20 GMT 1
Just goes to show that this club is wracked with failure. Aye 4 play off final wins out of 5 in the years since that automatic promotion illustrates your point perfectly doesn’t it 🤭 Three of them via 0-0 draws
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Feb 25, 2021 15:24:16 GMT 1
Aye 4 play off final wins out of 5 in the years since that automatic promotion illustrates your point perfectly doesn’t it 🤭 There is no other club in the country gone longer without an automatic promotion than Town. Even by your standards, that’s an incredibly depressing take on Town. And incorrect.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 25, 2021 15:33:42 GMT 1
There is no other club in the country gone longer without an automatic promotion than Town. Even by your standards, that’s an incredibly depressing take on Town. And incorrect. If you know who the club/s are do say, as I can't think of any, although clubs like Everton et al don't count.
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Post by mids on Feb 25, 2021 16:06:07 GMT 1
Even by your standards, that’s an incredibly depressing take on Town. And incorrect. If you know who the club/s are do say, as I can't think of any, although clubs like Everton et al don't count. Change the criteria in your original statement then
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 25, 2021 16:21:28 GMT 1
If you know who the club/s are do say, as I can't think of any, although clubs like Everton et al don't count. Change the criteria in your original statement then Obviously clubs like Everton have not been in a position to win automatic promotion. There isn't anyone, not that I can think of.
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Post by benhomly on Feb 25, 2021 16:27:47 GMT 1
If you know who the club/s are do say, as I can't think of any, although clubs like Everton et al don't count. Change the criteria in your original statement then It's like saying we went on an unbeaten run for 43 games, apart from the games we lost * only joking art
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Post by terriers2000 on Feb 25, 2021 17:18:39 GMT 1
Apparently the away fans will have the whole away end from next season so no south stand , I've seen people on twitter talking on it so idk if its true or false How so? That would drastically reduce capacity for Town fans and lose all the atmosphere. The south stand rumour will be confirmed more than likely at the next ATT meeting
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Feb 25, 2021 17:23:03 GMT 1
How so? That would drastically reduce capacity for Town fans and lose all the atmosphere. The south stand rumour will be confirmed more than likely at the next ATT meeting The only justification (from the club’s point of view) for that must be to save on stewarding costs. What other benefit would there be? It’d be a very bad move by the club, but nothing surprises me about it nowadays.
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