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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on May 5, 2021 12:10:18 GMT 1
I think my biggest disappointment was in the man management side of things after we survived. He should have known and communicated to the players that season 2 is always harder than season 1, assuming you survive. Some players clearly felt they'd achieved an end goal and actually it should have been phase 2 of a 5 or ten year plan complete. I've never seen a player decline so rapidly as Laurent De Poitre. He was immense in the first season. He made some seasoned internationals look ordinary. Season 2 he looked like a Sunday league player. As regards Depoitre, he got 7 goals in that 1st season but the wingers were VLP, Ince plus Kachunga and Quanar aside him..the 2nd season we had no wingers...VLP, Ince and Quanar were gone and kachunga only played a handful of games ..Mbenze and Diakhaby made about 10 appearances between them.. I don't think it was so much Depoitre declining as the support play being non existent. No. He was unfit, unmotivated, a shadow of his former self. It was clear whenever he was on the Pitch.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 12:10:29 GMT 1
It may have already been said on numerous other posts, but the biggest issue was not having Stuart Webber for the premier league recruitment. He identified the players to get us there and I think with DH backing the prem recruitment would have been far better with Webber in the mix. So many factors in our success, Wagner was one of them but the miracle started way before DW walked in the building. And you have told someone else on this thread to give their head a shake,,,
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Post by terriersyndrome on May 5, 2021 12:13:24 GMT 1
After watching the young terriers win last night on YouTube this video popped up next to watch.
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Post by Toxic Ted on May 5, 2021 12:14:39 GMT 1
Ultimately, Hoyle gambled and lost resulting in the wheels well and truly coming off when we were relegated. No one really minded, we gave it a shot but ran out of luck.
The animosity kicks in when he wants repaying for every mistake he made, every pound he wasted and every season ticket he initially subsidised. To admit mistakes and move on would be admirable. To admit mistakes yet drag the club backwards for years whilst demanding the losses he incurred whilst running the club badly are repaid is pretty outrageous.
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Post by El Mel on May 5, 2021 12:18:25 GMT 1
It's come from a bloke in Leeds Give your head a shake lad. Who precisely is your bloke in Leeds Mel? Why did Iffy's reply warrant such a condescending response?[/quOote] Petes my bloke in Leeds. What's condescending about it, iffy is making shite up to suit his view, and to dismiss the views of a poster who is clearly looking at the whole thing from a well researched perspective.
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Post by El Mel on May 5, 2021 12:19:32 GMT 1
So many factors in our success, Wagner was one of them but the miracle started way before DW walked in the building. And you have told someone else on this thread to give their head a shake,,, Good news. The cabbages are being harvested as I speak here in the Hondon Valley.
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Post by terriersyndrome on May 5, 2021 12:20:31 GMT 1
As regards Depoitre, he got 7 goals in that 1st season but the wingers were VLP, Ince plus Kachunga and Quanar aside him..the 2nd season we had no wingers...VLP, Ince and Quanar were gone and kachunga only played a handful of games ..Mbenze and Diakhaby made about 10 appearances between them.. I don't think it was so much Depoitre declining as the support play being non existent. No. He was unfit, unmotivated, a shadow of his former self. It was clear whenever he was on the Pitch. Sounds like he's been exactly the same for KAA Gent this season. 2 goals with 1 assist (all in the same game) in 22 appearances.
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by TTCMatt on May 5, 2021 12:22:05 GMT 1
Wonder if they have the same discussions on the Sheff United forum calling Wilder a villain. I doubt it tbh. Absolutely mental. It's like blaming Buxton for us losing 10-1 at Man City despite being sacked 11 months previous.
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Post by sabailand on May 5, 2021 12:25:21 GMT 1
Some on here hated the premier league and never want to return,quite happy to just bob along steady as you go shit season after shit season,so maybe to them he is a villian, how dare he have the nerve to take us to the prem!
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Post by dm on May 5, 2021 12:26:51 GMT 1
Whilst I disagree with some of the OP, I do partially agree with the sentiment - definitely a hero, but is also partly why we always play out from the back and often into trouble. Wagner was an absolute legend for Town and I previously thought that despite all the positives, he has left us with the hangover of this shit style that we can't budge (it wasn't always a shit style but has been for what feels like decades). For me though, the constant backward passing, playing out from the back and into trouble can't all be down to Wagner. Its not far off 2 and a half years since he left and we're still doing it and even insisting that the youth teams play that way. For years now the club has seemed so proud that all Town teams play the same way. Unfortunately, the kids seem to be able to do it better than the first team. I also think that Wagner had his time for success but his inability/refusal to adapt his style has been his undoing. Burnley’s wage bill is £100m. It was £80m+ when we were there. Way above ours. I totally agree that we were up against it. Any team who wins promotion is. But that's not a reason for almost exclusively passing the ball backwards. I fully appreciate the idea of keeping the ball but the key passes (into the box, at least in the right direction) are the ones with a lower chance of success but more importantly have a higher chance of leading to a goal. Therefore, sometimes it has to be better to play the passes less likely to find a teammate. And like I said, that can't be only Wagner's issue because we still play too cautiously now.
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Post by Mastercracker on May 5, 2021 12:32:16 GMT 1
Burnley’s wage bill is £100m. It was £80m+ when we were there. Way above ours. I totally agree that we were up against it. Any team who wins promotion is. But that's not a reason for almost exclusively passing the ball backwards. I fully appreciate the idea of keeping the ball but the key passes (into the box, at least in the right direction) are the ones with a lower chance of success but more importantly have a higher chance of leading to a goal. Therefore, sometimes it has to be better to play the passes less likely to find a teammate. And like I said, that can't be only Wagner's issue because we still play too cautiously now. I quoted you by mistake on my phone. I was replying to Hoggy who mentioned Dyche not having a competitive budget.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 12:35:07 GMT 1
I've never come across a manager of HTFC (or very few others in fact) whereby I'd literally hang off his every word post match on the car journey home, often parking up at home and sat on the drive listening for 10-15 mins until he'd stopped. The guy was utter class and talked exactly as the fans could see it. Also, have we had a manager when it was announced he was 'leaving', it was almost funeral like ? Total end of era stuff, not the usual 'thank **** he's gone' reaction.
Of course some things could have been done differently, but in the 'Total Legend' category for me.
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Post by Mr Breitside on May 5, 2021 12:37:01 GMT 1
I arent reading all that. What's the main crux of it, anyone? I think he's saying it's all David Wagner's fault that we are in the shit and barely avoiding relegation to the third flight. The thread has an agenda of some sort. How could Wagner ever be a villain ? Disgraceful thread IMO.
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Post by dm on May 5, 2021 12:38:52 GMT 1
I totally agree that we were up against it. Any team who wins promotion is. But that's not a reason for almost exclusively passing the ball backwards. I fully appreciate the idea of keeping the ball but the key passes (into the box, at least in the right direction) are the ones with a lower chance of success but more importantly have a higher chance of leading to a goal. Therefore, sometimes it has to be better to play the passes less likely to find a teammate. And like I said, that can't be only Wagner's issue because we still play too cautiously now. I quoted you by mistake on my phone. I was replying to Hoggy who mentioned Dyche not having a competitive budget. No problem.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on May 5, 2021 12:39:14 GMT 1
I've never come across a manager of HTFC (or very few others in fact) whereby I'd literally hang off his every word post match on the car journey home, often parking up at home and sat on the drive listening for 10-15 mins until he'd stopped. The guy was utter class and talked exactly as the fans could see it. Also, have we had a manager when it was announced he was 'leaving', it was almost funeral like ? Total end of era stuff, not the usual 'thank **** he's gone' reaction. Of course some things could have been done differently, but in the 'Total Legend' category for me. Totally agree. I’ve never been hit so hard ( apart from family ) as I was when I first heard that he was leaving. When I was sat in my seat just behind the dugouts and looked down to see Wagner stood there with his arms folded, I sat back and knew everything was ok.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on May 5, 2021 12:42:16 GMT 1
Whilst I disagree with some of the OP, I do partially agree with the sentiment - definitely a hero, but is also partly why we always play out from the back and often into trouble. Wagner was an absolute legend for Town and I previously thought that despite all the positives, he has left us with the hangover of this shit style that we can't budge (it wasn't always a shit style but has been for what feels like decades). For me though, the constant backward passing, playing out from the back and into trouble can't all be down to Wagner. Its not far off 2 and a half years since he left and we're still doing it and even insisting that the youth teams play that way. For years now the club has seemed so proud that all Town teams play the same way. Unfortunately, the kids seem to be able to do it better than the first team. I also think that Wagner had his time for success but his inability/refusal to adapt his style has been his undoing. If you want to play that way you have to have the players who can do it and watching the young lads last night, Camara is miles better on the ball than any of our first team central defenders. The only current first team player that you could compare him to is Vallejo. Back in the Wagner days, we had Mooy who would be constantly looking to take the ball off the likes of Schindler, Heff & Zanka but now without Vallejo our central midfield is static and hence we get the likes of Keogh & Sarr pissing about with it and ultimately costing us goals. In a game where we've nowt to lose on Saturday, I'd play a back three and put Camara in there to show them how its done.
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TTCMatt
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Post by TTCMatt on May 5, 2021 12:46:21 GMT 1
Burnley’s wage bill is £100m. It was £80m+ when we were there. Way above ours. I totally agree that we were up against it. Any team who wins promotion is. But that's not a reason for almost exclusively passing the ball backwards. I fully appreciate the idea of keeping the ball but the key passes (into the box, at least in the right direction) are the ones with a lower chance of success but more importantly have a higher chance of leading to a goal. Therefore, sometimes it has to be better to play the passes less likely to find a teammate. And like I said, that can't be only Wagner's issue because we still play too cautiously now. Not sure how you can attribute Wagner to this really. We played out from the back (and often frustratingly so) under Lee Clark from 09-11 and again under Mark Robins in 13/15 after receiving instruction from DH to bring in a playing philosophy. Playing out from the back is just a modern trend and one Town are keen to follow. Main issue is you have to have decent movement in midfield to get the ball from Phase 1 to phase 3 and it's something we've not been great at pre and post Aaron Mooy.
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Maynardblue on May 5, 2021 12:52:36 GMT 1
I think some are going overboard a bit with the euphemistic use of the term 'villain' - I don't think he's meaning a dastardly character with evil intentions simply a metaphorical way of saying he did some things good (mostly IMO) and a few things wrong (which I also believe is true).
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Post by Der Blitzbomber on May 5, 2021 12:53:37 GMT 1
Lot of unfair comments for a well written post that will have taken a bit of time. With all due respect, just because it took a long time doesn't mean it's any good. Kingsgate took about 20 years to build and still looks like sh**e. Wagner made mistakes for sure, but of all the people who've been blamed for our downfall, he's the least-deserving of that blame.
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Post by SW6 on May 5, 2021 12:57:38 GMT 1
The Traore incident highlights everything we need to know. Wagner wanted him and Hoyle was personally assigned to get him. By his own mouth, Hoyle went on holiday, forgot to ring to finalise the deal on time, Traore got crocked and Wagner had to find a replacement. We were a PL club and entirely reliant on one man, half way around the world, to remember to make a phone call to sign an international player for £20m. Wagner must have been tearing his hair out. Where’s the delegation, trust and competence in a board who are running a business turning over about £120m a year? The club was being run like a jumble sale stall. It’s then on Wagner to pick up the pieces, whilst in pre-season training and managing a club in the richest league in the world. The delegation appears to ultimately have been to give the accountability to Wagner, but alas not the responsibility. Classic senior level failing, seen in many boardrooms.
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Post by turbo2 on May 5, 2021 13:07:34 GMT 1
I've never come across a manager of HTFC (or very few others in fact) whereby I'd literally hang off his every word post match on the car journey home, often parking up at home and sat on the drive listening for 10-15 mins until he'd stopped. The guy was utter class and talked exactly as the fans could see it. Also, have we had a manager when it was announced he was 'leaving', it was almost funeral like ? Total end of era stuff, not the usual 'thank **** he's gone' reaction. Of course some things could have been done differently, but in the 'Total Legend' category for me. Totally agree. I’ve never been hit so hard ( apart from family ) as I was when I first heard that he was leaving. When I was sat in my seat just behind the dugouts and looked down to see Wagner stood there with his arms folded, I sat back and knew everything was ok. I knew at Cardiff ( the penalty that was overruled) that he’d had enough. Players not quite good enough and incompetent borderline cheating refs. Will we ever get that togetherness back that DW brought to the club??? I doubt it
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 13:20:46 GMT 1
As regards Depoitre, he got 7 goals in that 1st season but the wingers were VLP, Ince plus Kachunga and Quanar aside him..the 2nd season we had no wingers...VLP, Ince and Quanar were gone and kachunga only played a handful of games ..Mbenze and Diakhaby made about 10 appearances between them.. I don't think it was so much Depoitre declining as the support play being non existent. No. He was unfit, unmotivated, a shadow of his former self. It was clear whenever he was on the Pitch. Too busy looking after his hair transplant to bother putting much effort into training and playing the second season.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 13:24:38 GMT 1
Totally agree. I’ve never been hit so hard ( apart from family ) as I was when I first heard that he was leaving. When I was sat in my seat just behind the dugouts and looked down to see Wagner stood there with his arms folded, I sat back and knew everything was ok. I knew at Cardiff ( the penalty that was overruled) that he’d had enough. Players not quite good enough and incompetent borderline cheating refs. Will we ever get that togetherness back that DW brought to the club??? I doubt it He quit the Thursday before, but a measure of the man was that he agreed to stay on and take charge of the game.
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Post by runner76 on May 5, 2021 13:39:31 GMT 1
HERO.
Never a villain.
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Post by 28901 on May 5, 2021 13:46:41 GMT 1
Can never ever be categorised as anything other than a hero. The summer transfer window where we allegedly bought Players based on a style of play that he allegedly then changed thus rendering these Players surplus to requirements remains open for debate. If true, then Wagner has to take some of the responsibility here in terms of his otherwise pretty much faultless tenure. I also do not know why he panicked after Tottenham at home and we abandoned our 'no fear' approach. We will never know what might have been had we held our line ( thanks Chris Loewe for your significant contribution in this).That aside, hero and most certainly not a villain. A bit harsh on Loewe, seeing he was an integral reason as to why we were playing Spurs in the first place.
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Post by tepidterrier on May 5, 2021 13:47:19 GMT 1
As regards Depoitre, he got 7 goals in that 1st season but the wingers were VLP, Ince plus Kachunga and Quanar aside him..the 2nd season we had no wingers...VLP, Ince and Quanar were gone and kachunga only played a handful of games ..Mbenze and Diakhaby made about 10 appearances between them.. I don't think it was so much Depoitre declining as the support play being non existent. No. He was unfit, unmotivated, a shadow of his former self. It was clear whenever he was on the Pitch. He was an absolute embarrassment, but bizarrely escaped a lot of criticism at the time. Looked to have enjoyed the summer too much and lost a yard of pace, and didn't try and make up for it in effort. Weird thing is that when Siewert came in he had a brief period where he looked a bit more sprightly, hit the post a couple of times when he'd come nowhere near scoring in the first part of the season. Maybe he lost weight because he'd been holding in a huge turd waiting to use the Canalside changing room toilet for months.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on May 5, 2021 13:48:38 GMT 1
Long post alert but difficult to condense all the points Lots of fingers of blame have been pointed at lots of people in the club since our our demise from the Premier League but David Wagner appears to have escaped almost scot-free. Dean Hoyle gave David Wagner his first big break – managing a team in the Championship. I will never forget Dean Hoyle introducing our new manager at the Millbridge Club. It was an inspirational evening and I went home believing that David Wagner was the real deal. He was enthusiastic, down to earth and brought a vision based on fitness, cohesion and Terrier Spirit. In no time at all you could see that it was working. He introduced double training sessions; sessions timed to match kick-off times and even had the players reporting in on a Sunday to reflect on the previous day’s game. He also initially brought in players who epitomised the Terrier Spirit – players who gave their all for the team and the shirt – Schindler, Hefele, Lowe, Kachunga, Quaner – players who when selected; gave everything they’d got. When questioned at the Millbridge Club about ‘big’ clubs in the league he replied ‘We don’t worry about the opposition, let them worry about us’. #Terrier Spirit and #No Limits were the order of the day. The Wagner Revolution had begun and it was a joy to behold. In his first full season we were promoted. It was ahead of the plan and it was incredible. We didn’t score many and we didn’t win games by big margins but it was effective and the team mentality was both positive and strong. Following the unexpected promotion things began to change. We started spending money that was previously unheard of for Huddersfield Town, a net total of £40M committed on fees alone before we’d even kicked a Premier League football including: Laurent Depoitre (£3.5M) Aaron Mooy (£10M Inc. add-ons) Scott Malone £3.3M) Zanka (£3.5M) Mounie (£13m Inc. add-ons) - He was on loan that first season but came with a ‘done deal’ agreement for us to buy for the following season. Ince (£10.5M Inc. add-ons) We got off to a good start but David Wagner then abandoned his #No Limits approach and in most games we set up not to lose – park the bus and get a goal on the break if possible. It got ever tougher to watch and if we conceded, we knew we were almost bound to lose. We played too defensively, we didn't take enough risks, we didn't create many chances, and the aim was mainly to concede as few goals as possible. Joe Lolley was unfortunate with injuries and we never got to see his full potential on a regular basis. He was very keen to play as a no 10 but David Wagner was reluctant to play him there. Instead, he told Dean Hoyle that he badly wanted Alex Pritchard in that role so in Jan 2018 we bought him for a staggering £11M. In turn we effectively gave Joe Lolley away to Forest for a rumoured £1M but also looked after Michael Hefele in the same deal by ensuring that he also got a 3-year deal with Forest. The reality is that we’d have got a lot more out of Lolley than Pritchard if we’d kept him instead of buying Pritchard and, with wages included, we lost somewhere in the region of £15M. Entirely down to David Wagner. David Wagner had seen his stock rise during the promotion season and both he and Dean were aware that some other clubs were showing increasing interest. David Wagner asked for and received large wage rises on three or four separate occasions from when he started. DH knew he had someone special and was keen to please DW by backing him with the players he wanted and the ever larger salary he was demanding. Against the odds we survived that first season in the Premier league and we all looked forward to strengthening the team over the summer. We completed the deal on Mounie We bought Kongolo on a permanent deal for £18M M’Benza was DW’s number one new target of the summer. DH backed him by spending £11.25M on him. (DW told the club's website: "Isaac is a very exciting player and this is a great deal for Huddersfield Town for a player with such ability and potential. You do not play for Belgium at U21 level unless you have some outstanding attributes). We were about to buy Adam Traore and had both the fee (£20M) and wages agreed. At the eleventh hour Traore sustained an injury that was likely to see him out for up to six weeks. DW told DH that he couldn’t wait six weeks and wanted a speedy winger immediately. DW backed him yet again and from the shortlist, DW selected Diakhaby at a cost of £9m DW commented, "He is a very hungry young footballer with a strong desire to succeed in England. Obviously he is still learning and improving at 22 years old, but he already has many of the qualities that we look for in our attacking players. He's a direct player who is comfortable with the ball at his feet and with genuine pace, which suits our style perfectly." Bizarrely that ‘style’ changed shortly after signing both M’Benza and Diakhaby and neither of them went on to be regular starters. By late autumn in that second season things were not going well. We were very defensive and it was getting ever harder to watch. Rock bottom of the league and it seemed that some players were already looking to their agents to find them their next honey pot. The #No Limits and ~Terrier Spirit football had all but vanished. You have to question what impact some of our most expensive and highly paid players had on the rest of the squad who encountered their inflated egos and poor attitudes on a daily basis. These very same expensive and highly paid players that had been chosen by DW who had the final say on all player purchases. Around the same time, news was coming out that DH was critically ill and had been in hospital for some weeks. With hindsight, it appears that nobody was able to step up and fill the huge void caused by his absence. DW had run out of ideas and knew the ship was sinking. At a time when DH was desperately struggling with his health, DW sent him a message via a third party that he wanted out by the end of the season at latest. The same DH who had given him his first big opportunity, had paid him handsomely and had backed him in spending huge amounts of money on fees and wages of players that DW had asked for. When the shit was hitting the fan, it does seem that DW put himself first. I can only imagine what impact all this must have had on DH. He was critically ill in hospital, his football team was relegation bound and DW was jumping ship leaving behind massively expensive contracted players who had no fight in them and no loyalty to the club. The attitude of some of those players continued to be a major problem after DW left as they saw their contracts out whilst enjoying their massive salaries. Remember, DW had the last say on all of them coming into the club. When he left, he left a very expensive burden behind. In summaryHero – No doubts whatsoever. Gaining promotion was an incredible achievement. Villain – For me he has to take a large amount of the blame for the dream turning sour All valid points Pete, but I think Stuart Webber's comments regarding DH in his recent interview hit the nail on the head. The bottom line (in my opinion anyway) is that DH didn't have a clue how to run a football club (I would argue even less so than PH, who has at least been in charge at a club before) and that many of his/our successes were down more to blind luck than good judgement. He pushed away/failed to bring in people who truly understood the nuances of running a club, and of the game itself, because his successes essentially got to his head. Yes his stewardship got us to the PL, but ultimately Wagner has to take the lion's share of credit for that. The man who identified Wagner? Stuart Webber. Me or you buying a winning lottery ticket doesn't mean that we are financial experts, Wagner was a lottery ticket, Hoyle was simply the man who stumped up the cash, he had absolutely no idea we would win the jackpot. Nothing will alter my opinion that DH is chiefly to blame for our current predicament, and whilst PH has at often times been his own worst enemy, he is nowhere near deserving of even half the criticism he receives, given that his task here is incredibly hamstrung and continues to be so by the actions of our once Hero and saviour.
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Post by dugnet on May 5, 2021 13:50:38 GMT 1
If this is an attempt to shift any "blame" (for want of a better word) from DH I would make this observation.
DH (in the now infamous podcast) seemed to shift responsibility for failings onto a number of different targets. He didn't accept any ownership of those failings (which was disappointing given what had gone before).
So why was that? I have two theories:
1. If he comes out and accepts, ultimate, responsibility there are some who would argue that he should take the hit financially for those mistakes i.e. make an adjustment against his loans. For the record I have no issue with him recovering his loans but can completely understand that argument.
2. His ego won't allow him to admit he was ultimately accountable.
His he a villain? Not for me. Am I disappointed in how things turned out? Yes, very and the legacy of those decisions lives on.
Here's hoping we can move on now.
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Post by dugnet on May 5, 2021 13:58:34 GMT 1
Long post alert but difficult to condense all the points Lots of fingers of blame have been pointed at lots of people in the club since our our demise from the Premier League but David Wagner appears to have escaped almost scot-free. Dean Hoyle gave David Wagner his first big break – managing a team in the Championship. I will never forget Dean Hoyle introducing our new manager at the Millbridge Club. It was an inspirational evening and I went home believing that David Wagner was the real deal. He was enthusiastic, down to earth and brought a vision based on fitness, cohesion and Terrier Spirit. In no time at all you could see that it was working. He introduced double training sessions; sessions timed to match kick-off times and even had the players reporting in on a Sunday to reflect on the previous day’s game. He also initially brought in players who epitomised the Terrier Spirit – players who gave their all for the team and the shirt – Schindler, Hefele, Lowe, Kachunga, Quaner – players who when selected; gave everything they’d got. When questioned at the Millbridge Club about ‘big’ clubs in the league he replied ‘We don’t worry about the opposition, let them worry about us’. #Terrier Spirit and #No Limits were the order of the day. The Wagner Revolution had begun and it was a joy to behold. In his first full season we were promoted. It was ahead of the plan and it was incredible. We didn’t score many and we didn’t win games by big margins but it was effective and the team mentality was both positive and strong. Following the unexpected promotion things began to change. We started spending money that was previously unheard of for Huddersfield Town, a net total of £40M committed on fees alone before we’d even kicked a Premier League football including: Laurent Depoitre (£3.5M) Aaron Mooy (£10M Inc. add-ons) Scott Malone £3.3M) Zanka (£3.5M) Mounie (£13m Inc. add-ons) - He was on loan that first season but came with a ‘done deal’ agreement for us to buy for the following season. Ince (£10.5M Inc. add-ons) We got off to a good start but David Wagner then abandoned his #No Limits approach and in most games we set up not to lose – park the bus and get a goal on the break if possible. It got ever tougher to watch and if we conceded, we knew we were almost bound to lose. We played too defensively, we didn't take enough risks, we didn't create many chances, and the aim was mainly to concede as few goals as possible. Joe Lolley was unfortunate with injuries and we never got to see his full potential on a regular basis. He was very keen to play as a no 10 but David Wagner was reluctant to play him there. Instead, he told Dean Hoyle that he badly wanted Alex Pritchard in that role so in Jan 2018 we bought him for a staggering £11M. In turn we effectively gave Joe Lolley away to Forest for a rumoured £1M but also looked after Michael Hefele in the same deal by ensuring that he also got a 3-year deal with Forest. The reality is that we’d have got a lot more out of Lolley than Pritchard if we’d kept him instead of buying Pritchard and, with wages included, we lost somewhere in the region of £15M. Entirely down to David Wagner. David Wagner had seen his stock rise during the promotion season and both he and Dean were aware that some other clubs were showing increasing interest. David Wagner asked for and received large wage rises on three or four separate occasions from when he started. DH knew he had someone special and was keen to please DW by backing him with the players he wanted and the ever larger salary he was demanding. Against the odds we survived that first season in the Premier league and we all looked forward to strengthening the team over the summer. We completed the deal on Mounie We bought Kongolo on a permanent deal for £18M M’Benza was DW’s number one new target of the summer. DH backed him by spending £11.25M on him. (DW told the club's website: "Isaac is a very exciting player and this is a great deal for Huddersfield Town for a player with such ability and potential. You do not play for Belgium at U21 level unless you have some outstanding attributes). We were about to buy Adam Traore and had both the fee (£20M) and wages agreed. At the eleventh hour Traore sustained an injury that was likely to see him out for up to six weeks. DW told DH that he couldn’t wait six weeks and wanted a speedy winger immediately. DW backed him yet again and from the shortlist, DW selected Diakhaby at a cost of £9m DW commented, "He is a very hungry young footballer with a strong desire to succeed in England. Obviously he is still learning and improving at 22 years old, but he already has many of the qualities that we look for in our attacking players. He's a direct player who is comfortable with the ball at his feet and with genuine pace, which suits our style perfectly." Bizarrely that ‘style’ changed shortly after signing both M’Benza and Diakhaby and neither of them went on to be regular starters. By late autumn in that second season things were not going well. We were very defensive and it was getting ever harder to watch. Rock bottom of the league and it seemed that some players were already looking to their agents to find them their next honey pot. The #No Limits and ~Terrier Spirit football had all but vanished. You have to question what impact some of our most expensive and highly paid players had on the rest of the squad who encountered their inflated egos and poor attitudes on a daily basis. These very same expensive and highly paid players that had been chosen by DW who had the final say on all player purchases. Around the same time, news was coming out that DH was critically ill and had been in hospital for some weeks. With hindsight, it appears that nobody was able to step up and fill the huge void caused by his absence. DW had run out of ideas and knew the ship was sinking. At a time when DH was desperately struggling with his health, DW sent him a message via a third party that he wanted out by the end of the season at latest. The same DH who had given him his first big opportunity, had paid him handsomely and had backed him in spending huge amounts of money on fees and wages of players that DW had asked for. When the shit was hitting the fan, it does seem that DW put himself first. I can only imagine what impact all this must have had on DH. He was critically ill in hospital, his football team was relegation bound and DW was jumping ship leaving behind massively expensive contracted players who had no fight in them and no loyalty to the club. The attitude of some of those players continued to be a major problem after DW left as they saw their contracts out whilst enjoying their massive salaries. Remember, DW had the last say on all of them coming into the club. When he left, he left a very expensive burden behind. In summaryHero – No doubts whatsoever. Gaining promotion was an incredible achievement. Villain – For me he has to take a large amount of the blame for the dream turning sour All valid points Pete, but I think Stuart Webber's comments regarding DH in his recent interview hit the nail on the head. The bottom line (in my opinion anyway) is that DH didn't have a clue how to run a football club (I would argue even less so than PH, who has at least been in charge at a club before) and that many of his/our successes were down more to blind luck than good judgement. He pushed away/failed to bring in people who truly understood the nuances of running a club, and of the game itself, because his successes essentially got to his head. Yes his stewardship got us to the PL, but ultimately Wagner has to take the lion's share of credit for that. The man who identified Wagner? Stuart Webber. Me or you buying a winning lottery ticket doesn't mean that we are financial experts, Wagner was a lottery ticket, Hoyle was simply the man who stumped up the cash, he had absolutely no idea we would win the jackpot. Nothing will alter my opinion the DH is chiefly to blame for our current predicament, and whilst PH has at often times been his own worst enemy, he is nowhere near deserving of even half the criticism he receives, given that his task her is incredibly hamstrung and continues to be so by the actions of our once Hero and saviour. Some very good points Sherriff and I think you are close to the truth here. As for PH he can't change the person he is (although if he could soften his demeanour a bit and empathise more it would help) and he has put in a cogent structure. He needs to delegate to football people to make football decisions and tell them what budget they have. If they fail he then changes things. At the moment you sense (and has been hinted strongly) he likes to be involved in footballing decisions. As I posted before you don't get a farmer to fix your plumbing and expected a top job. He needs to be brave and let football people run the club. Are the football people at the club at the moment up to the task? That is a different debate. Ultimately the owner should set the agenda, set the expectations, communicate, delegate and look at the long term (to be fair PH has also done this - albeit top 10 in the championship isn't a great message, but perhaps realistic now). To be successful you need good people, the ability to adapt to change, the ability to admit you are wrong sometimes and the ability to bring people together. It sounds simple written down, of course it isn't.
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Post by golcarexile on May 5, 2021 13:59:26 GMT 1
No. He was unfit, unmotivated, a shadow of his former self. It was clear whenever he was on the Pitch. He was an absolute embarrassment, but bizarrely escaped a lot of criticism at the time. Looked to have enjoyed the summer too much and lost a yard of pace, and didn't try and make up for it in effort. Weird thing is that when Siewert came in he had a brief period where he looked a bit more sprightly, hit the post a couple of times when he'd come nowhere near scoring in the first part of the season. Maybe he lost weight because he'd been holding in a huge turd waiting to use the Canalside changing room toilet for months. Depoitre wasn't the only one. The Lossl affair was a strange one as well. Stalling over a new contract or coming back unfit from the world cup, whichever it was, it certainly didn't help our cause that we had Hamer in nets diving out of the way of everything headed in his direction for the first few games. That solidarity which had seemed unbreakable for two years suddenly evaporated after that night out in Soho.
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