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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 6, 2021 11:54:45 GMT 1
Inspired by the win on Sunday and then one or two people asking about Town's record in these things I have now created a special section on my website dealing with them. Click HERE.  |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Aug 6, 2021 12:20:34 GMT 1
Inspired by the win on Sunday and then one or two people asking about Town's record in these things I have now created a special section on my website dealing with them. Click HERE. 13 shootouts with 10 wins. That's very impressive. I wonder if any other English club have such a good record at shootouts? |
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Post by Venezuelan Pete on Aug 6, 2021 12:26:33 GMT 1
Inspired by the win on Sunday and then one or two people asking about Town's record in these things I have now created a special section on my website dealing with them. Click HERE. 13 shootouts with 10 wins. That's very impressive. I wonder if any other English club have such a good record at shootouts? Including a 100% record in the playoffs. Our shootout record always seems to contrast with our regular penalty record which is typically unimpressive both in terms of gaining them and scoring them. The fact that we won the 2012 final after missing the first three will never cease to amaze me. Interesting summary, thanks MT. |
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Post by lochnessterrier on Aug 6, 2021 12:38:41 GMT 1
13 shootouts with 10 wins. That's very impressive. I wonder if any other English club have such a good record at shootouts? Including a 100% record in the playoffs. Our shootout record always seems to contrast with our regular penalty record which is typically unimpressive both in terms of gaining them and scoring them. The fact that we won the 2012 final after missing the first three will never cease to amaze me. Interesting summary, thanks MT. The other amazing thing about that 2012 final was the quality of penalties scored (for both teams) by players deemed not good enough to take one of the first five. |
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Post by araucaria on Aug 6, 2021 12:39:51 GMT 1
13 shootouts with 10 wins. That's very impressive. I wonder if any other English club have such a good record at shootouts? Including a 100% record in the playoffs. Our shootout record always seems to contrast with our regular penalty record which is typically unimpressive both in terms of gaining them and scoring them. The fact that we won the 2012 final after missing the first three will never cease to amaze me. Interesting summary, thanks MT. Our 6 out of 6 in the play-offs is out of only about 35 such shootouts in the whole of play-off history and until Charlton won a second one a couple of years ago, no other team had won more than one and I think it's still correct that no other team has been in more than three play-off shootouts. We will almost certainly not be caught in our lifetimes. I'll send a question to The Knowledge at the Guardian to see if 10-3 can be bettered. |
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Post by Torquayterrier on Aug 6, 2021 12:41:03 GMT 1
That 2012 shootout was bizarre, folks practically (and understandably) gathering their belongings together preparing to leave the stadium after those early misses but then the oppos were missing too and you thought hang on this might get interesting...
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 6, 2021 12:46:50 GMT 1
That 2012 shootout was bizarre, folks practically (and understandably) gathering their belongings together preparing to leave the stadium after those early misses but then the oppos were missing too and you thought hang on this might get interesting... You say this, Kev, but I turned to my mates and said "We'll win this," after we missed the third one. I never had any doubt. Honestly - talk about confidence!  |
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Post by araucaria on Aug 6, 2021 12:51:55 GMT 1
All those successful penalties over 30 years and I believe that no-one has managed three; Bullock, Kay, Ward, Rhodes, Lowe, Wells and Mooy have two each. Lewis scored our 50th successful penalty in shoot outs and we've missed 14, if I've counted correctly. 14 missed out of 64; is that a better or worse in terms of percentage than our record in normal (and extra time)? Over to you Mansfield, but first you will need to prove that Kevin Lewis missed against Middlesbrough in 1964 and that Fred Robinson missed against Wigan in 1979, plus any others that have eluded us down the years.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Aug 6, 2021 12:53:36 GMT 1
In four of those penalty shootouts we didn't miss a penalty either.
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Post by araucaria on Aug 6, 2021 13:10:37 GMT 1
In four of those penalty shootouts we didn't miss a penalty either. Five, I think. After the first three of the 13, nine of the other ten have been won by the team, usually us, scoring 4, including 5 of our 6 play-off wins and we needed a multiple of 4 to win the other one! 28 successful penalties in play-off shoot outs and I'm guessing that Charlton will be second with maybe half that many. |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Aug 6, 2021 13:13:16 GMT 1
In four of those penalty shootouts we didn't miss a penalty either. Five, I think. After the first three of the 13, nine of the other ten have been won by the team, usually us, scoring 4, including 5 of our 6 play-off wins and we needed a multiple of 4 to win the other one! 28 successful penalties in play-off shoot outs and I'm guessing that Charlton will be second with maybe half that many. Yep, you are correct, I missed the first one. So half the penalty shootout wins we've not missed one. We must be the shootout kings? |
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Post by araucaria on Aug 6, 2021 15:58:52 GMT 1
Another stat I noticed following the penalty shoot-out on Sunday. Whenever we have faced an opponent in a shootout, and one of their penalty takers is called Liam, we always win. And all but 1 of the Liam's have missed their penalty. Liam Lawrence (Mansfield) in 2003/2004 Playoff Final Liam Feeney (Bournemouth) in 2010/11 Playoff Semi Final Liam Kelly and Liam Moore (Reading) in 2016/17 Playoff Final Liam Palmer (Sheff Wed) in 2021/22 League Cup and tenuously, Lee Wil LIAMson missed a penalty for Sheffield United in the 2011/12 Playoff Final (but Danny Wil LIAMs did score for Reading in 2016/17). Wonderful stuff. We've always referred to Lawrence as 'chip it Liam', but I would never have put together what you have (and I'm a colossal nerd - and I don't mean to suggest that you are). I'm just off to study your first six posts to see if there is more gold there. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 6, 2021 16:00:20 GMT 1
Typical town
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Post by araucaria on Aug 6, 2021 16:06:48 GMT 1
All those successful penalties over 30 years and I believe that no-one has managed three; Bullock, Kay, Ward, Rhodes, Lowe, Wells and Mooy have two each. Lewis scored our 50th successful penalty in shoot outs and we've missed 14, if I've counted correctly. 14 missed out of 64; is that a better or worse in terms of percentage than our record in normal (and extra time)? Over to you Mansfield, but first you will need to prove that Kevin Lewis missed against Middlesbrough in 1964 and that Fred Robinson missed against Wigan in 1979, plus any others that have eluded us down the years. From my records you are correct, 50 scored and 14 missed/saved in shootouts (so roughly 78% success rate) In terms of normal penalties, I have us down as scoring 387 penalties and missing 130 (so around 75% success rate). I can't be 100% sure on all the missed penalties, most were taken from the 99 years book. Yet more gold. 99 Years and Counting made a really good stab at penalties for and against, but there were quite a lot missing and Mansfield Terrier is currently engaged in the task of chasing down as many as he can. From your excellent analysis and the likelihood that there are only missed penalties to be added, we can conclude that Town are marginally better in shootouts than with normal penalties. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 6, 2021 16:23:27 GMT 1
I don't want to sound anal or owt but I'm almost certain that's Town's first ever penalty shoot out didn't take place on the 1st January 1992, should it be the 11th?
Edit: it's the 21st January 1992.
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Post by Captainslapper on Aug 6, 2021 16:27:18 GMT 1
Shame to even include the 3 we've lost as they were in some tin pot competition ( admittedly one being the final )
When it really matters we have a 100% record.
England should have swapped shirts to Town's for the pen shoot out. We'd be European champions!
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 6, 2021 16:37:40 GMT 1
I don't want to sound anal or owt but I'm almost certain that's Town's first ever penalty shoot out didn't take place on the 1st January 1992, should it be the 11th? Edit: it's the 21st January 1992. Fine. I'll change it. Must have not pressed the 2 key hard enough when typing it all up.  |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 6, 2021 16:40:57 GMT 1
And for those of you looking for other records, according to Wikipedia and the Daily Telegraph (which I can't access because it's ppv) Bradford City set the record of nine consecutive shoot-out wins in all competitions when they beat Arsenal in December 2012.
I also think that the year they beat Town they had something like five consecutive shoot-out wins in that competition.
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Post by aloadofdbullocks on Aug 6, 2021 17:03:41 GMT 1
Wonderful stuff. We've always referred to Lawrence as 'chip it Liam', but I would never have put together what you have ( and I'm a colossal nerd - and I don't mean to suggest that you are). I'm just off to study your first six posts to see if there is more gold there. I am as well, don't worry about that. Ha. I have a mysql database with every Town match, goal, stadium, etc etc (even started adding the Women's stuff as well) I have recently incorporated it into a website. It's at htafcarchive.comStill a bit of a work in progress and it's very stat based, unlike Roger's which is excellent, and the new HTSA Heritage site is fantastic too. The penalty shoot out stats can also be found on my website at htafcarchive.com/records/allshootouts.phpGood stuff that. Looking at the stadium data we really do have a rubbish record at wherever Derby play. But our record at Anfield must be one of the best if not THE best in the country for an away team? |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 6, 2021 17:05:25 GMT 1
Wonderful stuff. We've always referred to Lawrence as 'chip it Liam', but I would never have put together what you have ( and I'm a colossal nerd - and I don't mean to suggest that you are). I'm just off to study your first six posts to see if there is more gold there. I am as well, don't worry about that. Ha. I have a mysql database with every Town match, goal, stadium, etc etc (even started adding the Women's stuff as well) I have recently incorporated it into a website. It's at htafcarchive.comStill a bit of a work in progress and it's very stat based, unlike Roger's which is excellent, and the new HTSA Heritage site is fantastic too. The penalty shoot out stats can also be found on my website at htafcarchive.com/records/allshootouts.phpGreat website, Phil. I never realised that you have one! I'll add a link from my site.  |
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Post by araucaria on Aug 6, 2021 19:14:22 GMT 1
I am as well, don't worry about that. Ha. I have a mysql database with every Town match, goal, stadium, etc etc (even started adding the Women's stuff as well) I have recently incorporated it into a website. It's at htafcarchive.comStill a bit of a work in progress and it's very stat based, unlike Roger's which is excellent, and the new HTSA Heritage site is fantastic too. The penalty shoot out stats can also be found on my website at htafcarchive.com/records/allshootouts.phpGood stuff that. Looking at the stadium data we really do have a rubbish record at wherever Derby play. But our record at Anfield must be one of the best if not THE best in the country for an away team? It's very much historical. I've never seen us score a single goal against Liverpool, though had we scored at Anfield in our first away game in 1970, I wouldn't have seen it owing to being locked out. I believe that Chris Balderstone was the last Town player to score against them in 1961. |
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Post by Torquayterrier on Aug 6, 2021 19:15:01 GMT 1
I'd tried to blank that away penalty shootout at Chesterfield from my mind but I was there. Pissed it down and we were in the open away end. I recall we weren't really in it until a flurry of late goals got us to a draw then pens which we ballsed up. It wasn't a long drive home but a rather damp and miserable one.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 6, 2021 20:33:18 GMT 1
I'd tried to blank that away penalty shootout at Chesterfield from my mind but I was there. Pissed it down and we were in the open away end. I recall we weren't really in it until a flurry of late goals got us to a draw then pens which we ballsed up. It wasn't a long drive home but a rather damp and miserable one. Was at that game too, it proper lashed it down, day after my mother in laws funeral. I usually stand up at games but actual made the decision to sit down because it was that bad. The last 5 minutes were exciting. |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 7, 2021 9:35:23 GMT 1
Footnote relating to Iain Dunn's Golden Goal and a link to an interview with him now added to the original article. |
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Post by araucaria on Aug 8, 2021 19:17:36 GMT 1
Yesterday was Town's 101st opening day league fixture. I've long thought that our record is not good, so I've had a detailed look and have found the following. I've trusted 99 Years and Counting up until 2006, but there's always the chance that it's got home and away matches mixed up, though there's nothing wrong for certain from 1965 onwards.
56 home games, W20, D20, L16 and only 45 away games, W13, D12, L20, so overall W33, D32, L36. The WDL ratio is broadly similar in each of the 4 divisions, although the number of home and away games is the same in Divisions 1 and 3, 16 and 11 each respectively and Division 2 has 24 home games and only 17 away, while 5 of the 6 opening day games in Division 4 were at home.
We've played 55 different teams on the opening day; Blackpool 7 times, Preston and Bury 5 each and Derby, Portsmouth, Brentford and Sunderland 4 each. Surprisingly there is no Birmingham nor either of the Manchester or Sheffield clubs. Against Blackpool we've won 4 and lost 3 and against Derby they have all been draws. We've scored 4 goals on 4 occasions and concede 4 on three, though Smithies' penalty save denied Bournemouth a fifth.
Of the 17 away games in our current division, Town's record between 1910 and the 2-2 draw at Blackburn in 1983 was W6 D3 L0; next came a 3-0 defeat at Oldham in 1995, followed by 6 more, so that yesterday ended a run of 7 consecutive opening day away defeats in this division.
Our record in the first 50 seasons is W21 D17 L12 and for the most recent 51 is W12 D15 L24. So we used to be really good on the opening day and from the early 70s onwards not so good.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 19:38:53 GMT 1
It’s interesting that Rhodes took the 6th pen in the playoff final but Wednesday fans were booing him last Sunday for taking our first.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 19:41:29 GMT 1
I’m sure I read that nobody has won more than one penalty shootout in the playoffs except Town who have won 6.
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Post by hypotenuse on Aug 9, 2021 8:34:37 GMT 1
I’m sure I read that nobody has won more than one penalty shootout in the playoffs except Town who have won 6. I think that was true - not sure if Charlton won a second recently. Their first was after a remarkable 4-4 draw v Sunderland back in the 90s. On the topic of shootouts, and someone mentioned them earlier in this thread, I have a feeling that our local rivals from Manningham have a better record than us in shootouts - maybe Bilo can let us know? |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Aug 9, 2021 9:07:15 GMT 1
I’m sure I read that nobody has won more than one penalty shootout in the playoffs except Town who have won 6. I think that was true - not sure if Charlton won a second recently. Their first was after a remarkable 4-4 draw v Sunderland back in the 90s. On the topic of shootouts, and someone mentioned them earlier in this thread, I have a feeling that our local rivals from Manningham have a better record than us in shootouts - maybe Bilo can let us know? 18 shootouts won 10 according to this bantamsheritage.com/2018/09/25/citys-record-in-penalty-shootouts-good-or-bad/ |
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Post by hypotenuse on Aug 9, 2021 9:27:15 GMT 1
I think that was true - not sure if Charlton won a second recently. Their first was after a remarkable 4-4 draw v Sunderland back in the 90s. On the topic of shootouts, and someone mentioned them earlier in this thread, I have a feeling that our local rivals from Manningham have a better record than us in shootouts - maybe Bilo can let us know? 18 shootouts won 10 according to this bantamsheritage.com/2018/09/25/citys-record-in-penalty-shootouts-good-or-bad/Ah - so nowhere near as good. I only remembered the 9 in a row. |
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