Vallejo over Hogg

[pterrier]

After watching tonight, it struck me how much more effective our midfield looked without Hogg. Vallejo set the tempo really well and ensured that the midfield didn’t sit too deep which allowed us to press further up the pitch without the ridiculous gaps that we’ve seen between the front 3 and the rest of the team.
Unfortunately, I don’t think Vallejo and Hogg work well together in the same line up, but if it was a choice between the the two then Vallejo wins it, hands down.
What are everyone else’s thoughts?

[townrwe]

The gaping hole in the defence for the first doesn't happen with Hogg playing, but vellejo wins the passing and vision and starting attacking play transition hands down.

[impact]

Better with the ball - although he had a pretty poor first 25 or so today - but at fault for the goal and he doesn't read the game well enough in defence, which was partly the reason Kean got through for the offside goal.

At points today we were wide open through the middle which IMO we wouldn't have been with Hogg there. But we also moved the ball better than we would have with Hogg there. So a cop out but frankly it depends what role the player there is used in.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Both of the above posts have their merits.
I’d like to see both of them in the team.

[westislandterrier]

Could be used well tactically I guess, depending on how the game’s panning out and of course whoever the opponents would be and what their strengths and weaknesses are on the day / evening...

Over to you Carlos Boy !

[pstarbuckscoffee]

If Lewis goes, would like to see both together

[specialun]

No.

Vallejo moves the ball quickly, gives a different option but also caught in possession twice in dangerous positions yesterday

But he offers nowhere near the same protection as Hogg - first goal was like parting of the sea in midfield, huge gap but not helped by Tom Lees marking the corner flag. Second disallowed same issue

He can play as part of a 3 in midfield or I still think right sided centre half in a 3

[Essex Terrier]

We've been here before.

By all means replace Hogg with Vallejo, if only to see, agsin, why you just can't do that.

Hoogy won't last forever, one day he will need to step aside.

But it ain't yet.

[kennyk2]

I think they are very different players. You play the one who best suits your tactical plan... I wouldn't play both together.

[Solihull Terrier]

Possibly a case of horses for courses. There are a lot of games where Vallejo would leave us too defensively exposed but others where he would help us be a bit more forward looking and hold on to possession better.

[bigtruck]

His distribution is way better than Hoggs but that first goal doesn’t happen if Hogg is playing.

Happily see him in a 3 with Hogg and OBrien.

[dm]

I guess it might depend on who we are playing - if we will be defending more, start Hogg, if we are having more of the ball, start Vallejo.

A thought I had the other day re: Hogg was we all talk like Hogg is crucial to us doing well. We haven't exactly been tearing up trees with him though have we? He's been a great servant but at some point we will need to get used to life without him. Maybe alternating him with Vallejo might help with that.

[araucaria]

One day we'll win a game without Hogg.

[90sterrier]

I think Vallejo just suits the style CC wants to play a lot more than Hogg. Yeah if Hogg was playing last night we likely don't concede that first goal, but we'd have also been camped in our own half a lot more because Hogg doesn't tend to look for the forward pass half as much as Vallejo. I love Hogg but the difference in how Vallejo moves the ball forward was clear to see last night.

[sociallydistant]

Carlos has made Hogg captain.
There is not a chance he won't start him so early into the season, on the back of two league wins.

[dezzly]

Tend to agree with most comments to be honest.Vallejo awareness on the ball and passing much better,Hogg does slow things down way too much at times and has been guilty of dropping too deep this season,however defensively hogg much better,Vallejo doesn’t have to pace to make up for his failings defensively.
Ideally you want a hybrid of the two which maybe high in years to come just not yet,or the young lad camara but he’s even further away.
There is definitely a shout for rotating the pair for different games,maybe even Hogg generally away from home whereas Vallejo at home where hopefully be more on front foot.Like mentioned by someone else though I don’t see Hogg not playing anytime soon due to the captaincy and recent couple of wins and I do agree they shouldn’t be played together.

[Baby Ate My Eight Ball]

Our midfield is not an easy problem to fix.

Vallejo is a decent playmaker from deep at this level and we need that to pass through the lines. But he's not very mobile so if people are running at him then we're in trouble.

So you'd need Hogg next to him to do that breaking up of play.

I'd then say that we need a playmaker / attacking midfielder (number 10) rather than a centre midfielder that can attack (a number 8).

Which would mean Sinani in and O'Brien doesn't start. But O'Brien is the better all round player than Hogg or Vallejo - we're effectively taking up 2 spots because we don't have the player in front of defence that can both start attacks and nullify counters and get stuck in well.

In an ideal world we have a decent DOF and our parachute payments go towards buying a proper number 6 from Poznan, or Getafe, or San Lorient or wherever and we can give Carlos the players that he needs towards playing the sort of football we're meant to be playing.

[tepidterrier]

It's good to have different options. They could play together quite well in a 4-2-3-1 but I think would need Pipa or another more attacking right back in the side for that to work. Alex can also play on the right of a back 3

[terriersyndrome]

Both will be crucial this season.

[Convictatthemac]

This is our major problem at the moment. We don’t have a 6 who can defend AND turn on the ball and play forward. Hogg did it at the start of last year, why he has regressed? F knows. But we need to sort it quickly.

[upthetown]

A tough one… as noted above, Hogg generally offers better protection but Vallejo really helps us to start positive attacking moves quickly by bringing the ball forwards and looking for a pass in to our attacking players rather than back to our centre backs.

[richhtfc]

Aug 25, 2021 0:38:59 GMT 1 townrwe said:

The gaping hole in the defence for the first doesn't happen with Hogg playing, but vellejo wins the passing and vision and starting attacking play transition hands down.

That goal doesn’t happen but neither does a far more attacking display. We’d have been camped in our half all night defending rather than trying to play through them.

[Tiro]

Debate aside, I just love watching the guy. Has the ability to be a real Rolls Royce if we gave him consistent game time. Folk talking about his long passes, and rightly so, but it’s some of the little balls round corners and through gaps that start opportunities.

Berge was talked about a lot after Sat, but Vallejo has quality (IMO) and Berge cost £25m.

Absolute bargain.

[Essex Terrier]

Aug 25, 2021 14:55:52 GMT 1 Tiro said:

Debate aside, I just love watching the guy. Has the ability to be a real Rolls Royce if we gave him consistent game time. Folk talking about his long passes, and rightly so, but it’s some of the little balls round corners and through gaps that start opportunities.

Berge was talked about a lot after Sat, but Vallejo has quality (IMO) and Berge cost £25m.

Absolute bargain.

He's got lovely feet and can pick a pass.

What's that got to do with Hoggy?

🤔😳

[Metch]

I still feel that REG would be a great long term successor to Hogg.
He has shown that he has composure on the ball and a good passing range. Not tall enough to make it as a centre half at a high level but maybe just in front of a back 4.

[townrwe]

Aug 25, 2021 16:04:58 GMT 1 Metch said:

I still feel that REG would be a great long term successor to Hogg.
He has shown that he has composure on the ball and a good passing range. Not tall enough to make it as a centre half at a high level but maybe just in front of a back 4.

Vallejo would also be great at CB, but I'm not sure he has the defensive qualities to play there, the games he did his range of passing from CB was brilliant to watch. I personally think he should be in the team somewhere everyweek, if we have the creative quality of Koroma, Sinani and Sorba then it is even more essential that the transitions are quick and decisive.

Hoggs passing is his major weakness, he doesn't score any goals for a midfielder, he is basically a tackler/stopper.

Vellejo reminds me of Clayton when he played in the Quaterback role.

[Henry Mcgee]

I have been convinced that Hoggy is a huge part of our problems for a long time now. We all know how good he is off the ball but - on the ball he is just so clunky - and always has been if we're honest. He cannot play Carlos's style of football where everything has to go through that defensive midfielder - Vallejo showed us exactly how it should be done last night. Agreed, we are weaker defensively with Vallejo than Hogg but I'm prepared to live with that to watch the kind of team football we saw last night, where Vallejo is central to everything.

Hoggy was part of a great time in our recent history but he has been the one permanent feature in our horrible demise - during which we have looked increasingly static and pedestrian - and sadly for such a great servant he is now a major part of the problem.

[impact]

Aug 25, 2021 16:53:34 GMT 1 Henry Mcgee said:

I have been convinced that Hoggy is a huge part of our problems for a long time now. We all know how good he is off the ball but - on the ball he is just so clunky - and always has been if we're honest. He cannot play Carlos's style of football where everything has to go through that defensive midfielder - Vallejo showed us exactly how it should be done last night. Agreed, we are weaker defensively with Vallejo than Hogg but I'm prepared to live with that to watch the kind of team football we saw last night, where Vallejo is central to everything.

Hoggy was part of a great time in our recent history but he has been the one permanent feature in our horrible demise - during which we have looked increasingly static and pedestrian - and sadly for such a great servant he is now a major part of the problem.

And yet since we got relegated, our record without Hogg is P21 W3 D4 L14.

Or to put it another way we average 0.6ppg without Hogg, and 1.2ppg with him (or equivalent as it includes some cup games).

We still don't have anyone who can replace his defensive qualities. Vallejo can't play the holding role on his own as he doesn't read the game close to quickly enough.

[terriers2000]

when we play one of the big teams would like to see both of them play, I'm a massive vallejo fan but we can't win without hogg and he is one of out 2/3 who is a leader

[frankslegs]

Crikey -a reasoned debate over many posts 👏👏👏