Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 18:30:04 GMT 1
Vellejo is a better player but what you have to understand is what impact hogg has on the players which is why he is captain and in the starting 11 Oh blimey, just imagine how bad we'd have been if Hogg hadn't had an impact on those playing yesterday!
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 20, 2021 10:38:00 GMT 1
Thought Hogg was one of our better players in that game myself. Not saying that much though it has to be said. Played 3 or 4 great 50 yard diagonal balls to switch play to the left flank, which in terms of passing was about the highlight from the whole team. The problem all our defensive players had when they had the ball was the lack of movement and options further up field.
Youre left with a choice of an eye of the needle wonder pass, a punt up to our striker who can't hold the ball up anyway or a safe sideways pass to delay the inevitability of trying one of the first two.
Just one of those games when no one was on their game and you have to give forest credit for how they tactically set about us.
Looking at the results in this division this weekend, then we're far from alone in being inconsistent. If youre not totally on it, anyone in this division can beat anyone. Its what makes the championship such a great competitive division IMO.
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Post by pterrier on Sept 28, 2021 23:36:11 GMT 1
Class again tonight
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Post by orinoco on Sept 28, 2021 23:52:50 GMT 1
If you mean over oggy who does radio leeds? No!! The way he pronounces vallejo makes me chringe☺☺
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htfc63
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 874
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Post by htfc63 on Sept 29, 2021 2:28:24 GMT 1
We show much more attacking intent when Vallejo plays. He is more comfortable on the ball and moves it much quicker. I am sorry to say Hogg is now one dimensional in that he tackles but offers little or nothing going forward and often gets caught on the ball.
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Post by specialun on Sept 29, 2021 5:13:57 GMT 1
We show much more attacking intent when Vallejo plays. He is more comfortable on the ball and moves it much quicker. I am sorry to say Hogg is now one dimensional in that he tackles but offers little or nothing going forward and often gets caught on the ball. Hogg stops Rothwell running from Rothwell to the back of our net without a challenge for their first… That one dimension prevents that goal We saw the exact same thing vs Everton (clearly better quality) when Hogg missing Agree Vallejo better on ball
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Post by Porrohman on Sept 29, 2021 6:56:02 GMT 1
We show much more attacking intent when Vallejo plays. He is more comfortable on the ball and moves it much quicker. I am sorry to say Hogg is now one dimensional in that he tackles but offers little or nothing going forward and often gets caught on the ball. Hogg stops Rothwell running from Rothwell to the back of our net without a challenge for their first… That one dimension prevents that goal We saw the exact same thing vs Everton (clearly better quality) when Hogg missing Agree Vallejo better on ball Tbf Vallejo was subbed by then and it was O'Brien that didn't bother putting in a challenge. He should've dropped him and taken the yellow card
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Post by alexdire on Sept 29, 2021 7:28:07 GMT 1
Hogg stops Rothwell running from Rothwell to the back of our net without a challenge for their first… That one dimension prevents that goal We saw the exact same thing vs Everton (clearly better quality) when Hogg missing Agree Vallejo better on ball Tbf Vallejo was subbed by then and it was O'Brien that didn't bother putting in a challenge. He should've dropped him and taken the yellow card Yes that's when we fell apart, momentarily, after Vallejo went off. When they were still trying to organise themselves.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Sept 29, 2021 10:52:32 GMT 1
We show much more attacking intent when Vallejo plays. He is more comfortable on the ball and moves it much quicker. I am sorry to say Hogg is now one dimensional in that he tackles but offers little or nothing going forward and often gets caught on the ball. Hogg stops Rothwell running from Rothwell to the back of our net without a challenge for their first… That one dimension prevents that goal We saw the exact same thing vs Everton (clearly better quality) when Hogg missing Agree Vallejo better on ball Agree. Of course Vallejo is better on the ball - but Hogg’s value to the team is missed by so many people. You just have to read Carlos’s comments in the Examiner today - “we all know Hogg’s importance to the team” The same as every manager he’s ever played for. I like Vallejo- I just don’t see the purpose of this thread as they are two completely different styles of player.
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Post by benhomly on Sept 29, 2021 11:02:56 GMT 1
Hogg stops Rothwell running from Rothwell to the back of our net without a challenge for their first… That one dimension prevents that goal We saw the exact same thing vs Everton (clearly better quality) when Hogg missing Agree Vallejo better on ball Agree. Of course Vallejo is better on the ball - but Hogg’s value to the team is missed by so many people. You just have to read Carlos’s comments in the Examiner today - “we all know Hogg’s importance to the team” The same as every manager he’s ever played for. I like Vallejo- I just don’t see the purpose of this thread as they are two completely different styles of player. I think the purpose of the thread is you'll never get both starting together, unless O'Brien is dropped (not going to happen) or injured.
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Tiro
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,774
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Post by Tiro on Sept 29, 2021 11:51:21 GMT 1
Hogg stops Rothwell running from Rothwell to the back of our net without a challenge for their first… That one dimension prevents that goal We saw the exact same thing vs Everton (clearly better quality) when Hogg missing Agree Vallejo better on ball Agree. Of course Vallejo is better on the ball - but Hogg’s value to the team is missed by so many people. You just have to read Carlos’s comments in the Examiner today - “we all know Hogg’s importance to the team” The same as every manager he’s ever played for. I like Vallejo- I just don’t see the purpose of this thread as they are two completely different styles of player. Important to note neither Vallejo or Hogg were on the field when Rothwell did what he did...... I just love Vallejo. We tick in possession much better with him.
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Post by townrwe on Sept 29, 2021 11:58:19 GMT 1
The guy is class, should be no.1 on the teamsheet everyweek, either for Hogg or as a ball playing CB.
Hogg Is a landrover defender, vellejo is a lambourghini urus. Different beasts, you probably wouldn't want to get stuck in a muddy ditch with your urus, but given some space it's going to leave the land-rover for dust.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Sept 29, 2021 12:22:27 GMT 1
Agree. Of course Vallejo is better on the ball - but Hogg’s value to the team is missed by so many people. You just have to read Carlos’s comments in the Examiner today - “we all know Hogg’s importance to the team” The same as every manager he’s ever played for. I like Vallejo- I just don’t see the purpose of this thread as they are two completely different styles of player. Important to note neither Vallejo or Hogg were on the field when Rothwell did what he did...... I just love Vallejo. We tick in possession much better with him. Completely agree re Vallejo. I can understand the point that it’s difficult to field both him and Hogg at the same time but I think we should look to do this when / if possible. Hogg wins the ball and gives it to Vallejo would work.
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Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,824
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Post by Amigo on Sept 29, 2021 12:49:48 GMT 1
Generally them starting together hasn't worked, the anomaly being Swansea last season but when we tried it against Fulham presumably to make us more solid it definitely didn't work so I can't see any reason to do it against weaker sides than Fulham.
I think if we've got 3 centre backs starting then I'm not sure there's a need for a midfielder that also isn't that keen on having the ball, the other reason not to play them together in that in gives Vallejo one less option to pass to in that he then has 4 players close to him that don't really want it. With 3 centre backs and Hogg I think we find it difficult to get attacks going but with Vallejo instead we look far more fluid and other players show better movement knowing there's more chance of them getting the ball.
Did we miss Hogg last night? Not really no, the one thing he might have prevented came just after Vallejo went off and we were still reshuffling. Did we play better with Vallejo in the team? Yes.
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Post by alexdire on Sept 29, 2021 12:57:36 GMT 1
Generally them starting together hasn't worked, the anomaly being Swansea last season but when we tried it against Fulham presumably to make us more solid it definitely didn't work so I can't see any reason to do it against weaker sides than Fulham. I think if we've got 3 centre backs starting then I'm not sure there's a need for a midfielder that also isn't that keen on having the ball, the other reason not to play them together in that in gives Vallejo one less option to pass to in that he then has 4 players close to him that don't really want it. With 3 centre backs and Hogg I think we find it difficult to get attacks going but with Vallejo instead we look far more fluid and other players show better movement knowing there's more chance of them getting the ball. Did we miss Hogg last night? Not really no, the one thing he might have prevented came just after Vallejo went off and we were still reshuffling. Did we play better with Vallejo in the team? Yes. Usually when we have three centre backs we have Colwill playing. Who does like having the ball.
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Sept 29, 2021 15:10:01 GMT 1
Generally them starting together hasn't worked, the anomaly being Swansea last season but when we tried it against Fulham presumably to make us more solid it definitely didn't work so I can't see any reason to do it against weaker sides than Fulham. I think if we've got 3 centre backs starting then I'm not sure there's a need for a midfielder that also isn't that keen on having the ball, the other reason not to play them together in that in gives Vallejo one less option to pass to in that he then has 4 players close to him that don't really want it. With 3 centre backs and Hogg I think we find it difficult to get attacks going but with Vallejo instead we look far more fluid and other players show better movement knowing there's more chance of them getting the ball. Did we miss Hogg last night? Not really no, the one thing he might have prevented came just after Vallejo went off and we were still reshuffling. Did we play better with Vallejo in the team? Yes. Agree with all that. Be interesting to see how long we stick with 3 at the back because I would like to see us go to a back 4 where I think Turton would be a more natural right back than a wing back. If we have a back 4 then there's more of a case for Vallejo and Hogg together and O'Brien in front of them.
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Post by tepidterrier on Sept 29, 2021 16:03:34 GMT 1
Generally them starting together hasn't worked, the anomaly being Swansea last season but when we tried it against Fulham presumably to make us more solid it definitely didn't work so I can't see any reason to do it against weaker sides than Fulham. I think if we've got 3 centre backs starting then I'm not sure there's a need for a midfielder that also isn't that keen on having the ball, the other reason not to play them together in that in gives Vallejo one less option to pass to in that he then has 4 players close to him that don't really want it. With 3 centre backs and Hogg I think we find it difficult to get attacks going but with Vallejo instead we look far more fluid and other players show better movement knowing there's more chance of them getting the ball. Did we miss Hogg last night? Not really no, the one thing he might have prevented came just after Vallejo went off and we were still reshuffling. Did we play better with Vallejo in the team? Yes. interesting you bring up Swansea- Vallejo played on the right of a back 3 that day and it was crucial to us playing so well, we were on the front foot all the time with him orchestrating the moves and Rowe providing a constant out ball. Interesting thing is that he hasn't played there since, but Hogg has.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Sept 29, 2021 16:10:36 GMT 1
Horses for courses
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 16:25:59 GMT 1
The guy is class, should be no.1 on the teamsheet everyweek, either for Hogg or as a ball playing CB. Hogg Is a landrover defender, vellejo is a lambourghini urus. Different beasts, you probably wouldn't want to get stuck in a muddy ditch with your urus, but given some space it's going to leave the land-rover for dust. I was parked up on a narrow side street at Headingley a few weeks back waiting for tother half to pick something up. A Transit van drove past in the other direction, so its a normal street with plenty of room for two cars abreast. AND THEN... Another car came in...and just stopped...he kept pointing at the road and I was waving him on, "plenty of room pal, a van just drove past"...but he was having none of it. He wasn't aggressive or anything in his manner, he just looked incapable! After what seemed like an age, probably a minute, I started up and pulled my car onto the pavement, making the gap even wider. As he came past, he wound his window down and goes, "sorry mate, I don't want to spoil my wheels bumping onto the pavement". He was driving a Urus 😂
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Post by Essex Terrier on Sept 29, 2021 17:06:04 GMT 1
We've been here before, haven't we?
Hoggys time will come, he's 33 in December, but it ain't yet. Vallejo is a decent player, nice feet, but he is no Johnny Hogg. It's not either/or, it's more a question of whether both can play in same side.
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 29, 2021 17:21:31 GMT 1
We've been here before, haven't we? Hoggys time will come, he's 33 in December, but it ain't yet. Vallejo is a decent player, nice feet, but he is no Johnny Hogg. It's not either/or, it's more a question of whether both can play in same side. I think it should be either/or depending on opponent. Vallejo when it’ll be an open game and Hogg when we need to keep it tighter. I’d like both to be used when appropriate. No one should be an automatic starter, barring maybe Nichols IMO.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Sept 29, 2021 18:23:00 GMT 1
Thought Hogg was one of our better players in that game myself. Not saying that much though it has to be said. Played 3 or 4 great 50 yard diagonal balls to switch play to the left flank, which in terms of passing was about the highlight from the whole team. The problem all our defensive players had when they had the ball was the lack of movement and options further up field. Youre left with a choice of an eye of the needle wonder pass, a punt up to our striker who can't hold the ball up anyway or a safe sideways pass to delay the inevitability of trying one of the first two. Just one of those games when no one was on their game and you have to give forest credit for how they tactically set about us. Looking at the results in this division this weekend, then we're far from alone in being inconsistent. If youre not totally on it, anyone in this division can beat anyone. Its what makes the championship such a great competitive division IMO. When he's facing forward his passing is more than adequate. It's when he's not facing forward he's generally pretty poor, taking too long to work out what he needs to do or just playing it straight back. Unless I'm mistaking games, I thought he was awful first half, regularly doing what I said above. I'm not making a case for Vallejo over Hogg, just think it's the opposite to what some are saying. Nearly everyone knows what Hogg brings to the table, rather some seem to as good as excuse his shortcomings more than they would others or are oblivious to how much he can slow play in some games.
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Post by Porrohman on Sept 29, 2021 18:43:55 GMT 1
Generally them starting together hasn't worked, the anomaly being Swansea last season but when we tried it against Fulham presumably to make us more solid it definitely didn't work so I can't see any reason to do it against weaker sides than Fulham. I think if we've got 3 centre backs starting then I'm not sure there's a need for a midfielder that also isn't that keen on having the ball, the other reason not to play them together in that in gives Vallejo one less option to pass to in that he then has 4 players close to him that don't really want it. With 3 centre backs and Hogg I think we find it difficult to get attacks going but with Vallejo instead we look far more fluid and other players show better movement knowing there's more chance of them getting the ball. Did we miss Hogg last night? Not really no, the one thing he might have prevented came just after Vallejo went off and we were still reshuffling. Did we play better with Vallejo in the team? Yes. Agree with all that. Be interesting to see how long we stick with 3 at the back because I would like to see us go to a back 4 where I think Turton would be a more natural right back than a wing back. If we have a back 4 then there's more of a case for Vallejo and Hogg together and O'Brien in front of them. No there isn't, O'Briens passing, finishing and vision isn't good enough to play in more of a 10 role. Take his shot that hit the bar, he ballsed up a simple pass but got lucky with the RB slipping after, he did the same against Forest and the broke and scored. If his passing near the box was better he'd be the player worth the sort of money Town wanted.
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Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,824
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Post by Amigo on Sept 29, 2021 20:37:09 GMT 1
We've been here before, haven't we? Hoggys time will come, he's 33 in December, but it ain't yet. Vallejo is a decent player, nice feet, but he is no Johnny Hogg. It's not either/or, it's more a question of whether both can play in same side. Surprised you haven't given Hogg a 9 out of 10 for last night's performance? You're right though, he isn't Hogg which is possibly why we looked a lot better last night because we had a player in that position that could get the ball moving and get the team moving. I think it absolutely is a case of either/or, I don't think they can play together, in midfield anyway, it doesn't work.
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Post by mrbluesky on Sept 29, 2021 22:18:35 GMT 1
Vallejo is a huge asset to the side - he is a must for me as he takes us forward in to the attack much quicker and smarter than we have done so since mooy
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Post by townrwe on Oct 3, 2021 8:37:26 GMT 1
We've been here before, haven't we? Hoggys time will come, he's 33 in December, but it ain't yet. Vallejo is a decent player, nice feet, but he is no Johnny Hogg. It's not either/or, it's more a question of whether both can play in same side. I think it should be either/or depending on opponent. Vallejo when it’ll be an open game and Hogg when we need to keep it tighter. I’d like both to be used when appropriate. No one should be an automatic starter, barring maybe Nichols IMO. I would probably have played hoggy yesterday, mainly as it was away A point was a good result. Home games on the whole is when I would pick Vallejo and against teams we expect to beat away. Agree it’s not either, it’s when Carlos picks them.
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Post by Metch on Mar 18, 2023 21:29:09 GMT 1
I still feel that REG would be a great long term successor to Hogg. He has shown that he has composure on the ball and a good passing range. Not tall enough to make it as a centre half at a high level but maybe just in front of a back 4. After today, maybe I wasn't talking total bollocks, played well
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 18, 2023 21:39:12 GMT 1
Extremely impressive today was our REG.
Total fookin ratter.
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Post by townrwe on Mar 18, 2023 23:43:11 GMT 1
Thought he did a really good job, really disciplined. I like him and I'm glad warnock likes him also. Along with jacko, who I thought would have been brilliant In front of Headley.
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Post by cecerececerececere on Mar 19, 2023 1:29:56 GMT 1
I still feel that REG would be a great long term successor to Hogg. He has shown that he has composure on the ball and a good passing range. Not tall enough to make it as a centre half at a high level but maybe just in front of a back 4. After today, maybe I wasn't talking total bollocks, played well Well done you 👏 👍 ...you are ace!
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