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Post by ACW on Oct 19, 2022 0:47:24 GMT 1
Anyone want to guesstimate tonight’s true attendance? Well, to start you off, there was only five on my row. And two of them fucked off with 15 mins to go! Hardly any on the row behind either. |
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Post by pinstripe on Oct 19, 2022 1:43:14 GMT 1
1. Only play 1 striker; Rhodes. our midfield needs help, if one of our strikers gets injured, we’re screwed. Especially with this ‘training’
2. Just because we need to play 1 striker doesn’t mean we can’t load the box with attacking threats, throw Holmes and Rudoni at Thomas and Jackson’s crosses and stop playing Rudoni in central midfield, it doesn’t work
3. Gotta give our players options, if MF doesn’t ‘care about formations’ (or whatever nonsense he said to that effect) we have to give the man on the ball two men to pass to. Every time.
4 Play a back four. we’re simply not good in defense right now to cover all that ground
5. Practice first touch passing, a lot. If we’re a young squad, let’s use that speed.
S’all I got.
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Post by rockwall on Oct 19, 2022 6:06:30 GMT 1
Reckons we didn’t take our chances again - what chances is he on about? Out of position Turton from 30 yards? Helik 35 yards? Wards absolute gobber early on.... it was that bad it needs forgetting about. |
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Post by rockwall on Oct 19, 2022 6:08:56 GMT 1
When does Hoyle sack him though? When we’re already down? I don’t think he has it in him to swallow his pride for the second time this season, after the Schofield disaster. Does he care about staying up? If so it’s tomorrow, Bromby goes too and he gets an experienced manager. Chris Wilder doesn’t have a job, there are plenty others too. But he won’t. Because Wilder did so well at Boro.... |
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Post by offsideclyde on Oct 19, 2022 6:44:12 GMT 1
Time to give Warnock a ring.
Keep us up Neil we don't care how you do it or how shit the football is.
Then he goes end of this season giving us time to try get a long term manager in.
We just have to finish 4th bottom and give a proper manager a chance before we get cut adrift.
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 19, 2022 7:16:32 GMT 1
Anyone who plays helik instead of mbete needs to be sacked. I can see why Barnsley went down , the guy is clueless. Get helik and camara out of the side and we might have a chance Has Camara knicked your bird or something ? 6 of your last 7 posts gave slagged him off. He's a kid that's played about 5 games and was nowhere near the worst player in any of those games 🙄 |
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 19, 2022 7:18:53 GMT 1
Well down from Lossiemouth for that one. Thought we were reasonable first half. Less said about the second half the better. My daughters partner came tonight, he normally watches Aberdeen, he pointed out that we can make up to five subs and wanted to know if our coach did! I'll be down again in the New Year so hopefully we have "turned the corner" by then? Town will be down by then too, mate 😖 |
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Oct 19, 2022 7:20:44 GMT 1
Does he care about staying up? If so it’s tomorrow, Bromby goes too and he gets an experienced manager. Chris Wilder doesn’t have a job, there are plenty others too. But he won’t. Because Wilder did so well at Boro.... Yeah bad season this time round. But he went from League Two to the Premier League in a handful of seasons. You don’t do that by luck. |
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Post by durhamterrier on Oct 19, 2022 7:21:57 GMT 1
Didn’t go last night - which is a rarity- but watched at home.
The honest appraisal is we didn’t do anything . We attacked and defended passively - never took the game to Preston.
People raving about Thomas are deluded in my eyes . Bar set pieces he’s contributed nothing but his pace on the counter . However his end ball on those attacks isn’t good enough.
We’re not really playing two up top either as usually one of them drops to attacking midfield … a role that Rudoni, Holmes and Diarra all call their own .
We need a settled defence but he’s chopping and changing every game … but not dropping the consistent weak link in Tom Lees… who was fantastic last season but nowhere near this .
the game plan looks to be … hoof to Rhodes , flicks down for ward or midfielder who plays Thomas into space . I’ve seen nothing else .
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 19, 2022 7:24:53 GMT 1
Does he care about staying up? If so it’s tomorrow, Bromby goes too and he gets an experienced manager. Chris Wilder doesn’t have a job, there are plenty others too. But he won’t. Because Wilder did so well at Boro.... He did OK at Sheffield, this clueless fucker has done nothing ever |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Oct 19, 2022 7:33:36 GMT 1
Because Wilder did so well at Boro.... He did OK at Sheffield, this clueless fucker has done nothing ever he's another wadsworth for me. talks the talk but when it comes to winning games he's clueless. get rid before it's too late. |
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Post by duncfost01 on Oct 19, 2022 7:36:06 GMT 1
Anyone who plays helik instead of mbete needs to be sacked. I can see why Barnsley went down , the guy is clueless. Get helik and camara out of the side and we might have a chance Has Camara knicked your bird or something ? 6 of your last 7 posts gave slagged him off. He's a kid that's played about 5 games and was nowhere near the worst player in any of those games 🙄 He looked good in some games. But he is a young lad and part of his development is surely feeling how it is to be dropped. To look at why and then improve. I did suggest he shouldn't have played last but what other options do we have ?This squad is so un-balanced and poor it astounds me that Bromby is still in a job. |
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Post by dezzly on Oct 19, 2022 7:41:49 GMT 1
Didn’t go last night - which is a rarity- but watched at home. The honest appraisal is we didn’t do anything . We attacked and defended passively - never took the game to Preston. People raving about Thomas are deluded in my eyes . Bar set pieces he’s contributed nothing but his pace on the counter . However his end ball on those attacks isn’t good enough. We’re not really playing two up top either as usually one of them drops to attacking midfield … a role that Rudoni, Holmes and Diarra all call their own . We need a settled defence but he’s chopping and changing every game … but not dropping the consistent weak link in Tom Lees… who was fantastic last season but nowhere near this . the game plan looks to be … hoof to Rhodes , flicks down for ward or midfielder who plays Thomas into space . I’ve seen nothing else . That last bit about the plan is exactly how I see it,except hoof I would disagree with,we start off the games with decent passes into feet and then drop ball off to midfield who yes then play Thomas into space,Jackson a couple of times too early doors. The problem then is that teams work it out early,shut all those spaces/ balls into feet off and we have nothing else.it then ends up been a pretty aimless ball up to the strikers head and playing for scraps or sorba ends up coming much deeper to collect the ball wide and then attempting to beat 1 or 2 men and get the ball in the box.not necessarily picking anyone out just getting it in there,hoping that because 2/3 men in there instead of what used to be 1 that it will land ok someone’s head/foot.That’s pretty much it,we can’t pass the ball to save our lives especially in tight spaces but Carlos recognised that after his first season.The difference he had was that Lewis could dribble the ball 40/50 yards so we didn’t need to pass it. |
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 19, 2022 7:44:08 GMT 1
Anyone who plays helik instead of mbete needs to be sacked. I can see why Barnsley went down , the guy is clueless. Get helik and camara out of the side and we might have a chance Lol. I can only assume that you are joking. |
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Post by rothwellterrier on Oct 19, 2022 7:45:29 GMT 1
I presume he spends half-time with the subs to save himself the embarrassment of stood with a blank expression in front of the team in the dressing room, who are maybe expecting some tweaks in the formation.
When he told the RL interviewer it’s what he’s always done, the interviewer should have asked him what Felix Magath was doing while he was out with the subs. Was he in the dressing room?
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Post by Convictatthemac on Oct 19, 2022 7:53:40 GMT 1
I reckon its just apathy about it all thats where all the anger should be directed at hes totally fucked the club up.what i wouldnt give to have hodgkinson back in charge I reckon PH is part of the bigger problem. Imagine hanging on by the skin of your teeth to a football club that you can’t afford and expecting the other owner to pony up. This is a disaster all round from both Phil and Dean. Investment is needed into this club, into our midfield and into a decent manager. We can’t keep doing it on the cheap. What we do have is a WC break coming up which will give us a chance to reset, that is assuming action is taken now! The current ownership structure is going to sink us, like coming to save a drowning person, they don’t let you help and drag you under with them. |
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Post by Convictatthemac on Oct 19, 2022 8:00:57 GMT 1
Not a good night, not a good night at all. We just seem to have players that switch off at the wrong time. Before the corner for the goal, Kasumu switched off and let his man get goal side of him and receive a pass, that got them going and led to the corner. If Kasumu was switched on he’d have been goalside and would have intercepted the pass. Second balls, we just don’t seem switched on to them or quick enough to react. Far far too much long ball tonight that Rhodes and Ward were never gonna win, then again we don’t win enough second balls from the defenders header, players not switched on and alive to the opportunity. Lots of criticism of Camara on here tonight. He’s a 19 year old kid playing in about his 5th professional football match. He’ll have good patches and bad patches. Problem is we don’t have much experience in centre mid at the moment to help him. Thomas is becoming a little too predictable when he’s got the ball down the right. All his deliveries are exactly the same, floaty lofted balls into the box. There’s no square balls into the penalty areas, no driving to the line and firing the ball across or cutting it back. The predictability make it easy for centre halves to get themselves set and defend it. Lots and lots of work to do Great post. Really good points re: Sorba's crossing. He can deliver a great ball but, as you say, they are all the same type of cross and can be easily predicted. The long ones from the halfway line rarely create any danger. Our crossing in general is very predictable. Always high. When was the last time we fired in a low cross across the six yard line? Or cut one back from the byline? It never happens. A bit like we never seem to play one-twos around the box. Sadly the last time Sorba pinged one across the 6 yard line, Ward missed a tap in. That was on the weekend 🙄 |
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Post by rockwall on Oct 19, 2022 8:09:03 GMT 1
Such a shame that in 6 years the enjoyment and euphoria has seeped.
1. DH - I will admit, I have not got a clue what is going on with him.
He has anf still does put money in whether it is to pay wages or improve the club. But then we always seem to be cutting costs. Every window is trimming things down. How long can this go on for? The Wigans and Lutons of the league seem to be okay, so why not us?
2. Bromby - was last seasons transfer dealings a stroke of genius or luck? He was a applauded last season, this season is the complete opposite.
3. Management - I always believe this is luck. Sometimes a manager just fits a club. Going for the cheaper option will work occasionally, but we have tried it too much and failed. We needed experience this time, even before appointing DS. With what was going on with CC leaving and a lot of key players, experience of dealing with that, alongside a short pre season was vital.
4. Players - I feel for many. Youngsters, deservedly given a chance, but in the wrong moment. Club is becoming toxic, this surely can't be good for Camara, Jackson etc. They will definitly become better mentally for it, but hopefully it doesn't stall their potential.
5. Fans - I feel we have been put through hell. Not a clue what is going on behind the scenes. Communication has gone downhill. The people we need to hear from are hiding away when times are tough. In todays world, we still pay to watch or beloved team, for some, this could go over their budget. But we do it. We deserve some form of enlightens on the situations. Why and how has it got this bad.
We are all in this together. Championship or League 1. We will follow.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Oct 19, 2022 8:16:51 GMT 1
We’re like a car that you’ve had for a few yrs, but at present it’s missing a bit.
I think a lot of the problem is the loss of forward momentum that O’ Brien gave us. That’s a huge loss when you consider that it won us a ton of free kicks, so in the process it prevented the opponents winning the ball back and applying pressure on the defence.
I also think Thomas will be really frustrated because he’s now in a poorly performing side, which will no doubt harm his chances of selection for Qatar. As a young bloke having had his stop-start pro career I’d be gutted if that was me. He shows a lot of passion but nothing is coming off for him this season. In part that’s due to the players around him. Someone else observed that we have no linkage between the players, which is spot on. You could see from a couple of throw ins that Thomas and Holmes still had a bit of that, but in general we act like a team of strangers.
Unfortunately I think we might be heading back to the point where the players are being influenced by what’s happening on the training ground and out of sight of the supporters. When that breaks down the rot can set in pretty quickly as we’ve seen this season.
It’s frustrating how we can go from Wembley to this in less than 15 games, but it’s also time for some of the team to take charge of these things and realise this might be their careers on the line. I don’t think the squad is that bad, but things off the pitch are having too big an influence.
It could be something as simple as the Mgr. With Carlos (as it was with DW) they could see he was a tactician, and if he also had some of the personable skills of Bielsa, the players probably took to him.
I don’t know what the answer is, but we’re in one heck of a rut just now, and it’s the club and the players that need to work that out.
I left last night just as they won that corner in stoppage time. I didn’t hear any boos as I went through the gate, just the crowd announcement. If the crowd aren’t even bothering to boo any more, then it seems like we have apathy taking a hold throughout the club (again).
I obviously hope we turn it round, but it’ll be a miserable and scrappy season from what I’ve seen this far.
At the moment we’re one of the clubs every team will want to play against. The team should be looking at that and working on the problems causing it, which I’m pretty sure they’ll know exactly what they are.
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Oct 19, 2022 8:21:01 GMT 1
thats where all the anger should be directed at hes totally fucked the club up.what i wouldnt give to have hodgkinson back in charge I reckon PH is part of the bigger problem. Imagine hanging on by the skin of your teeth to a football club that you can’t afford and expecting the other owner to pony up. This is a disaster all round from both Phil and Dean. Investment is needed into this club, into our midfield and into a decent manager. We can’t keep doing it on the cheap. What we do have is a WC break coming up which will give us a chance to reset, that is assuming action is taken now! The current ownership structure is going to sink us, like coming to save a drowning person, they don’t let you help and drag you under with them. Definitely think this is an issue, we need the ownership sorting officially and the shares transferring. Feels like Clubs in limbo. Whys the takeover taking so long? |
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Post by Convictatthemac on Oct 19, 2022 8:56:25 GMT 1
I reckon PH is part of the bigger problem. Imagine hanging on by the skin of your teeth to a football club that you can’t afford and expecting the other owner to pony up. This is a disaster all round from both Phil and Dean. Investment is needed into this club, into our midfield and into a decent manager. We can’t keep doing it on the cheap. What we do have is a WC break coming up which will give us a chance to reset, that is assuming action is taken now! The current ownership structure is going to sink us, like coming to save a drowning person, they don’t let you help and drag you under with them. Definitely think this is an issue, we need the ownership sorting officially and the shares transferring. Feels like Clubs in limbo. Whys the takeover taking so long? It seemed like it was going to get sorted last year but as our climb up the ladder continued, I wonder if the owners got greedy in an all or nothing play. I don’t know why CC left, but shit, right now I think some need to suck up on egos and let’s get him back in. Fans included. |
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Post by alexdire on Oct 19, 2022 9:03:44 GMT 1
Beating them 1-0 at home and stopping them getting promoted wasn't bad TBF Porroh they were 12 points off the play-offs, I think their inadequacies stopped them getting promotion not Carl Madrick. We did Bradford City 1-0 at Valley Parade, stopping them getting promoted. |
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Post by alexdire on Oct 19, 2022 9:06:17 GMT 1
Does he care about staying up? If so it’s tomorrow, Bromby goes too and he gets an experienced manager. Chris Wilder doesn’t have a job, there are plenty others too. But he won’t. Because Wilder did so well at Boro.... He got Sheff Utd out of League One. There is a good chance this guy will get us out of League One, the wrong way. |
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Post by space hardware on Oct 19, 2022 9:06:38 GMT 1
Watched the last 30m on the red button (very unusual for me). Speechless. Utter desperation. This club is getting everything it deserves. I feel like I’m almost beyond caring anymore. 18000 there apparently. Nearer 9000 18357..... riiiiiiiiight. I know everyone does it but that's just laughable bollocks. |
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Post by Big Ern on Oct 19, 2022 9:08:58 GMT 1
As painfully difficult as it may seem I want to pick out Holmes as being easily our best players last night. He was everywhere and you could tell he was giving 100%. If the other 11 had the same endeavor then we might be a tad higher than we are.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 9:09:44 GMT 1
Right, I've slept on it.
Camara gets lots of mentions on this thread. He is a very good young player. If you watched him in the acadamy games he looked really good but he had players around him who found space and played triangles to move forward. Partly because they were playing to a definite system they all knew, but also they were not playing against a Championship side which has kept 10 clean sheets this season. PNE do that by keeping possession and stifling opposition, and midfield is key to that. Camara also seems to have been playing the Hogg role, very deep, which I thought Kasumu would play. He rarely crossed the half way line and if he did looked like he was desperate to get back. I assume thats his instructions.
I thought Holmes played really well, his link up play with Jackson especially. Once PNE saw the threat they closed any gaps. Holmes still worked hard but the positioning of the rest of the team left him very few options.
Ward & Rhodes. Wardy up top on his own works his socks off, closing down, chasing lost causes, he gives back lines a difficult time. Rhodes started off doing that but, possibly due to his age, and it not being his game, he slowed down very quickly, and Ward didn't look anywhere near as affective. There were times in the first half when we tried closing their back line down and they just passed it around us and moved forward. This combination does not work. Doesn't seem to stop the opposition and they do not link up well, which may be supply as well but it just doesn't look to work.
I thought Jackson and Thomas both looked dangerous but saw nowhere near enough of the ball, especially Jackson. This could be PNE but is also how slow we go forward. Thomas started off sprinting out when Nichols collected a ball and by the end he was just jogging with his back to our goal because he knew the ball wasn't coming to him anytime soon.
Lees. Where do you start. He desperately needs Pearson alongside him and, I think, Hogg in front. He doesn't organise and other sides know he is going to be our outball, and that in itself seems a weird thing to say. Every time we played it out it ended up on the right with him and PNE players rushed him. It was obviously a tactic and a very effective one. He was just stuck either pushing it back across the line or misplacing a pass. We gave them the ball loads from this position. The strange thing is, last 10 minutes he pushed up, supporting Thomas and Camara more like a fullback. We made so much more headway and looked as threatening as we had all game, which wasn't a high bar. This says to me 3 across the back does not work, we need a back 4 with fullbacks supporting the wingers. Playing Turton as left sided centre back seems like MF just being stubborn. We have 3 left sided centre backs. One appears injured, one has had a horrible start to the campaign and the other was in the naughty corner.
Midfield. Part of the issue is playing two strikers, neither of who dropped deep to help the midfield, so we got overrun. The other is playing 3 centre backs with very wide wingbacks, so midfield was sucked out from all sides. Holmes playing, sort of, No 10 left Camara and Kasumu to sort out the middle of the park, which was far too big an ask.
MF. After the first 15 minutes it wasn't working. We were being stifled and couldn't string three passes together. He waited until 71 minutes and just made one sub. No structure change, and just 20 minutes for Rudoni to take the game by the scruff of the neck. It did improve, I thought, when he came on but far too little too late. The bench wasn't great I will admit but he did nothing with what he had, either on the field or on the bench. That is a real worry.
I do not see how this is going to improve quickly. I don't think MF has the tactical nouse and they did not look happy bunnies out there. I wanted to give MF a chance to prove himself but he gives me no confidence at all at the moment, I hope he he is a quick learner but I think he may be too stubborn.
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 19, 2022 9:13:20 GMT 1
TBF Porroh they were 12 points off the play-offs, I think their inadequacies stopped them getting promotion not Carl Madrick. We did Bradford City 1-0 at Valley Parade, stopping them getting promoted. Yeah, I remember that one. I was working away and couldn't go. I was seeing a lass from Shelf at the time and her dad was a City fan, he wouldn't talk to me next time I saw him 🤣 |
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Post by richhtfc on Oct 19, 2022 9:14:28 GMT 1
Where is the logic  Unlike ANY manager I've heard of Mr Fotheringham spends half-time watching the subs warm up - he did tonight. He does so, he says, so he "can see the ones with fire in their bellies and fight in their eyes to come on and make a difference". Tonight our team was putting on a performance that most posters think was abysmal, YET he brought ONE substitute on. What on earth does that say about the substitutes' attitude, or Mark's eyesight ? He is so far out of his depth, it's getting embarrassing. I find that so weird, the half time thing. Most of the time the subs are dicking around, doing keepy ups, half arsed training drills, stood around watching the really very dreary and hackneyed spectacle of dizzy penalties etc. What can you learn from that? It's just odd behaviour. Hate to put the boot in but MF says watching the subs at half time is something he’s always done. I’m guessing that’s because he always been an assistant coach till now….. |
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Post by space hardware on Oct 19, 2022 9:19:59 GMT 1
I find that so weird, the half time thing. Most of the time the subs are dicking around, doing keepy ups, half arsed training drills, stood around watching the really very dreary and hackneyed spectacle of dizzy penalties etc. What can you learn from that? It's just odd behaviour. but MF says watching the subs at half time is something he’s always done. I’m guessing that’s because he always been an assistant coach till now….. It's not putting the boot in, it's probably an accurate view! |
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Post by Gag N Bone Man on Oct 19, 2022 9:21:23 GMT 1
Fkn hell. Where to start?
Last night was awful. I can't remember a game of football I've enjoyed less. I've got a root canal next Thursday and if you said I could skip it by watching the game again I'd politely decline.
So many questions.
Why did we persist with 3 centre backs (including our only recognised right back playing at left centre back) when they offered so little up front?
What has happened to pressing for the ball? We were actually quite good at that, yet last night we were content to give the worst attack in the league acres of space all over the park
What the fuck is this thing at half time? Spending time with the subs? It's not only mental, it's fucking amateurish and disrespectful to pretty much everyone concerned - the players, the coaches, the fans and Dean.
Why only one substitution? We were one nil down, at home, while sitting second bottom, and he made one change from a permitted 5. We had attacking options on the bench. I suspect if Kasumu hadn't got a stupid booking, he'd have stayed on for he full 90.
What was our tactical plan? It seemed to be to lump it forwards aimlessly when we had the ball in our half, but then play endless backwards and square passes when in theirs. Twice in the second half we had throw ins in the final third and within 2 passes were under pressure on the edge of our own box. One of them, at around 68 minutes (I made a mental note I was so incensed) Duane Holmes won a throw that he was the perfect choice to take - if he'd waited 20 seconds we could have filled the box and he could take one of his regular long throws into the box. Nah, he rushed it, threw it backwards and suddenly PNE had an attack.
Why do we persist with Sorba on corners when they aren't working. Our best crosses last night were from Jackson, why not let him take one?
I listened to Fotheringham on the drive home. How the fuck did he impress at an interview? Hack football clichés inarticulately conveyed and contradicting himself from one sentence to the next. Even as a Scot I struggled to comprehend what he was gibbering on about.
We run the risk of becoming a total laughing stock. We really do.
The best game I've seen this season in terms of our performance? The one game Narcis was in charge for.
Hard to see anything other than League One unless something changes, and fast.
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Unlike ANY manager I've heard of Mr Fotheringham spends half-time watching the subs warm up - he did tonight. He does so, he says, so he "can see the ones with fire in their bellies and fight in their eyes to come on and make a difference".