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Post by Horney Barry on Mar 25, 2023 22:19:14 GMT 1
Fantastic custodian with some mistakes towards the end. Kept his legacy well intact by getting us out of the mud. Great memories over the last decade. Enjoy going back to just being a fan now Deano.
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Maynardblue on Mar 25, 2023 22:21:24 GMT 1
Like we said the other day he'll get nothing for the club shares....but will get his money from the stadium shares and from Canalside. As you well know there are ways of wording things to make a fact sound better or worse- known as Spin ! Not having a dig BTW, he could have asked for money for the shares too, just saying. The stadium shares which he’s ok record as saying several times he would put in to a trust for the football club? (Including Q&As I attended) Like I say, we're all waiting to see the details of the deal, and we'll try not to jump to conclusions in the meanwhile. |
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Post by Big Ern on Mar 25, 2023 22:24:08 GMT 1
The stadium shares which he’s ok record as saying several times he would put in to a trust for the football club? (Including Q&As I attended) Like I say, we're all waiting to see the details of the deal. Can you think of any reason why the new owners haven't been revealed yet? Seems bizarre. |
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Post by Porrohman on Mar 25, 2023 22:57:04 GMT 1
Oh yeah without a doubt it’s spun, the same guy got the purchase exclusive too. It is impressive, although he was clearly forced into it a bit by the administration deadline. Most of Towns exclusives go to the Daily Mail - there have been several PR pieces over the years. We all wait with baited breath to see what these North Americans have in store. I believe DH has done all he realistically could from a financial point of view with the sale- but the true judgement will come from how good a fit this group actually is. Town exclusives in the Daily Nazi FFS 🙄😖 |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Mar 25, 2023 22:59:48 GMT 1
Pretty simple to me. 1. Nobody can say what would have happened without Hoyles intervention. You can speculate all you like but you can not know because it never happened, at least not in this Universe. 2. We had our most successful period by fay under Hoyle, and he deserves to take a lot of the credit for putting money in to make us competitive in League One and Championship. 3. A lot of mistakes were made when we got into the Premier League. Despite saying we would not make them we did and Hoyle has to take a lot of the responsibility for that too. We spent far too much money on poor players. 4. He created a lot of frustration with his priorities after relegation, selling to PH who was not financially stable enough, etc. Seemingly in an attempt to pull money back out which led to us not having money to spend. 5. He seems to have written off a lot of the loans he put in which is admirable, but its early days yet. He is a smart man and he knows he probably had no choice in order to sell. I think Dean Hoyle has overall been a good steward of the club and I appreciate the Premier League time because it is something I never thought I would see. I think the opportunity was wasted to a large extent but people make mistakes. Hopefully the new people have the financial clout and wisdom to make us competitive. Agree with 3 points but not these 2. 3. Hoyle didnt say we wouldn't make mistakes... how could he? And nobody made mistakes deliberately. Yes, in hindsight we did.. we spend tens of millions on terrible signings..but we didnt overspend for a PL club.. we only 'blew our brains out' ( which was what he said we wouldn't do ) because those signings were so bad none of them had any sell on value. Hoyle didnt choose any of them, though ultimately he has to take the responsibility, which he has. 4. PH WAS financially stable when he sold to him. People are going back and altering history to make out he wasn't. He was worth an absolute fortune!.. tens and tens of millions, maybe over a hundred million. Obviously the deal had Hoyle being paid back most of his money but not much of it actually was before the deal was scrapped. We had no money to spend because we were saddled with a host of terrible signings we couldn't sell and get money back for and they were still having to be paid a fortune. It was those signings which screwed us up, not the deal with PH. £11m was paid back to DH at the end of the summer transfer window in 2020. It’s in the accounts. The original deal as per the 2019 accounts stated that the club owed DH £45m. £15m had to be paid back within 5 days of the close of the summer 2020 transfer window, but it looks like only £11m was repaid. In the 2020 Accounts the club still owed DH £34m and this was restructured due to Covid. The restructure was scrapped due to DH stepping back in. The club also repaid DH £4.4m during the 2nd PL season. So from being owed £49.4m at the end of the first PL season, the club repaid DH £15.4m by the time he stepped back in. That’s hardly not much. That’s 30%. Indeed it’s 44% of the £35m we we’re committed to paying back.So whilst appreciating that DH has ultimately written off his dept, the club had paid him back 30% / 44% of what he was owed, before PH’s businesses went bust. Having to pay DH £11m between being relegated and the end of that summer’s transfer window, played as much a part in being skint as having players on the books whose transfer values had Tanked. I’m not sure how financially stable PH was in term of buying a Premium League football club. He agreed to pay just over £5m for the shares, but had to do that in 2 instalments. If he couldn’t raise £5m I’m not sure how we can suggest he was financially stable and worth an absolute fortune. Whilst I appreciate that his money was tied up in his business, suggesting he’s worth a fortune at the time of the sale is perhaps stretching it. Very wealthy maybe, but worth a fortune, I’m not sure. |
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Mar 26, 2023 0:18:58 GMT 1
And this is based on your knowledge of what exactly? And why did we need a 'queue of billionaires' when Dean Hoyle himself was a million miles from being a billionaire?. The answer is that your 'opinion' is based on pure conjecture, and that you have absolutely zero clue what would have transpired. A million miles from being a billionaire? Maybe, but still miles in front of any other offer we might, or might not, have had at the time. And again, you're basing this on what exactly? |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by incognito on Mar 26, 2023 0:23:42 GMT 1
The stadium shares which he’s ok record as saying several times he would put in to a trust for the football club? (Including Q&As I attended) He wanted to keep them in his back pocket just incase. Now we can see why Technically they were in Phil's pocket until a few days ago... |
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ben1987
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by ben1987 on Mar 26, 2023 8:22:50 GMT 1
He wanted to keep them in his back pocket just incase. Now we can see why Technically they were in Phil's pocket until a few days ago... He’s referring to the stadium shares. |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by incognito on Mar 26, 2023 13:11:46 GMT 1
Technically they were in Phil's pocket until a few days ago... He’s referring to the stadium shares. Yes. Point being that the 40% stake in KSDL has resided with HTAFC since 2013. Why the shares were never placed in trust is an important question, but Hoyle effectively signing them over to Hodgkinson in 2019 is at odds with this notion of his having conspired to keep them in his back pocket all along. Either way, we are all justified in awaiting the particularities of this latest "North American" deal with somewhat bated breath... |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Mar 26, 2023 15:32:15 GMT 1
Most of Towns exclusives go to the Daily Mail - there have been several PR pieces over the years. We all wait with baited breath to see what these North Americans have in store. I believe DH has done all he realistically could from a financial point of view with the sale- but the true judgement will come from how good a fit this group actually is. Town exclusives in the Daily Nazi FFS 🙄😖 I always thought that the daily nazi was the Telegraph and the Mail was read by their wives  |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 27, 2023 10:18:37 GMT 1
Agree with 3 points but not these 2. 3. Hoyle didnt say we wouldn't make mistakes... how could he? And nobody made mistakes deliberately. Yes, in hindsight we did.. we spend tens of millions on terrible signings..but we didnt overspend for a PL club.. we only 'blew our brains out' ( which was what he said we wouldn't do ) because those signings were so bad none of them had any sell on value. Hoyle didnt choose any of them, though ultimately he has to take the responsibility, which he has. 4. PH WAS financially stable when he sold to him. People are going back and altering history to make out he wasn't. He was worth an absolute fortune!.. tens and tens of millions, maybe over a hundred million. Obviously the deal had Hoyle being paid back most of his money but not much of it actually was before the deal was scrapped. We had no money to spend because we were saddled with a host of terrible signings we couldn't sell and get money back for and they were still having to be paid a fortune. It was those signings which screwed us up, not the deal with PH. £11m was paid back to DH at the end of the summer transfer window in 2020. It’s in the accounts. The original deal as per the 2019 accounts stated that the club owed DH £45m. £15m had to be paid back within 5 days of the close of the summer 2020 transfer window, but it looks like only £11m was repaid. In the 2020 Accounts the club still owed DH £34m and this was restructured due to Covid. The restructure was scrapped due to DH stepping back in. The club also repaid DH £4.4m during the 2nd PL season. So from being owed £49.4m at the end of the first PL season, the club repaid DH £15.4m by the time he stepped back in. That’s hardly not much. That’s 30%. Indeed it’s 44% of the £35m we we’re committed to paying back.So whilst appreciating that DH has ultimately written off his dept, the club had paid him back 30% / 44% of what he was owed, before PH’s businesses went bust. Having to pay DH £11m between being relegated and the end of that summer’s transfer window, played as much a part in being skint as having players on the books whose transfer values had Tanked. I’m not sure how financially stable PH was in term of buying a Premium League football club. He agreed to pay just over £5m for the shares, but had to do that in 2 instalments. If he couldn’t raise £5m I’m not sure how we can suggest he was financially stable and worth an absolute fortune. Whilst I appreciate that his money was tied up in his business, suggesting he’s worth a fortune at the time of the sale is perhaps stretching it. Very wealthy maybe, but worth a fortune, I’m not sure. Wasnt the £4.4m just replaying short term input of capital? Not part of that underlying debt? A short term interest free loan for whatever reason thats repaid very quickly because its way better for the club than taking a loan from a bank? Believe he did the same with an even bigger amount when we first went up. So if he was repaid £11m of the £45m owed on that underlying debt,,,.thats about a quarter and about 1/28th of the extra income the club gained by reaching the PL and staying there 2 seasons... ( and since then the underlying debt has grown back up again by another £10m or so... giving us the £40m written off figure ) Hes basically put back in any money he took out. It would have made a difference to the money we had available after relegation, but in the grand scheme of things a relatively small difference when compared to the £70m-£80m worth of players we'd signed in the previous 2 years and who's values had completely tanked leaving us unable to get any of that money back. And our commitment to their wages which will have been enormous. For all we know, the 'plan' could have been for PH to inject back into the club, however much had been repaid to DH....but obviously, that was dependant on him withdrawing his wealth from the Pure businesses which he couldn't/didnt do in time. If we reach the PL under these new owners, Id expect them to start clawing back their investment too... and probably lots more on top if they can. On PH, I presumed that by the time the second agreed instalment was due, his businesses had collapsed..so he wasnt in a position to make that payment anymore. That doesnt reflect on his ability to make those instalments BEFORE his businesses collapsed. I dont think its a stretch to say someone who owns businesses with a turnover of around £20m will be worth an absolute fortune. Its just that, as you say, almost all that wealth was tied up in those businesses. |
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by Sparrow on Mar 27, 2023 11:25:37 GMT 1
£11m was paid back to DH at the end of the summer transfer window in 2020. It’s in the accounts. The original deal as per the 2019 accounts stated that the club owed DH £45m. £15m had to be paid back within 5 days of the close of the summer 2020 transfer window, but it looks like only £11m was repaid. In the 2020 Accounts the club still owed DH £34m and this was restructured due to Covid. The restructure was scrapped due to DH stepping back in. The club also repaid DH £4.4m during the 2nd PL season. So from being owed £49.4m at the end of the first PL season, the club repaid DH £15.4m by the time he stepped back in. That’s hardly not much. That’s 30%. Indeed it’s 44% of the £35m we we’re committed to paying back.So whilst appreciating that DH has ultimately written off his dept, the club had paid him back 30% / 44% of what he was owed, before PH’s businesses went bust. Having to pay DH £11m between being relegated and the end of that summer’s transfer window, played as much a part in being skint as having players on the books whose transfer values had Tanked. I’m not sure how financially stable PH was in term of buying a Premium League football club. He agreed to pay just over £5m for the shares, but had to do that in 2 instalments. If he couldn’t raise £5m I’m not sure how we can suggest he was financially stable and worth an absolute fortune. Whilst I appreciate that his money was tied up in his business, suggesting he’s worth a fortune at the time of the sale is perhaps stretching it. Very wealthy maybe, but worth a fortune, I’m not sure. Not part of that underlying debt? A short term interest free loan for whatever reason thats repaid very quickly because its way better for the club than taking a loan from a bank? Believe he did the same with an even bigger amount when we first went up. So if he was repaid £11m of the £45m owed on that underlying debt,,,.thats about a quarter and about 1/28th of the extra income the club gained by reaching the PL and staying there 2 seasons... ( and since then the underlying debt has grown back up again by another £10m or so... giving us the £40m written off figure ) Hes basically put back in any money he took out. It would have made a difference to the money we had available after relegation, but in the grand scheme of things a relatively small difference when compared to the £70m-£80m worth of players we'd signed in the previous 2 years and who's values had completely tanked leaving us unable to get any of that money back. And our commitment to their wages which will have been enormous. For all we know, the 'plan' could have been for PH to inject back into the club, however much had been repaid to DH....but obviously, that was dependant on him withdrawing his wealth from the Pure businesses which he couldn't/didnt do in time. If we reach the PL under these new owners, Id expect them to start clawing back their investment too... and probably lots more on top if they can. On PH, I presumed that by the time the second agreed instalment was due, his businesses had collapsed..so he wasnt in a position to make that payment anymore. That doesnt reflect on his ability to make those instalments BEFORE his businesses collapsed. I dont think its a stretch to say someone who owns businesses with a turnover of around £20m will be worth an absolute fortune. Its just that, as you say, almost all that wealth was tied up in those businesses. Just on the point in bold. No, at the start of the season his underlying debt was at £49.4m. During the course of the season he did indeed put money in and take money out as a short term capital input as you suggest. DH's loans peaked at £61.4m. So in terms of capital input that went in short term and then back out, he put in £12m and took that £12m back out....But the £4.4m was DH reducing his underlying debt in the club. So the point is, he was and did take quite a chunk of his Loans out. Yes he's ended up putting it back in and ultimately seems to have written it off. On PH, we possibly need to agree to disagree. I used to work for and report directly to the Co-Founder and CEO of a business with a Turnover of just under £25m. Despite him living in a flat just of Kings Road and being a season ticket holder in the posh seats at Chelsea (I went with him quite a few times), he'd never have been in a position to buy or attempt to buy a Premier League or even Championship club. Anyway, it's been interesting debating it with you Captain, but perhaps now that DH has sold up, we need to move on UTT..... |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 27, 2023 12:21:14 GMT 1
Yeah we probably do.  |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 27, 2023 12:27:30 GMT 1
By discussing DH's greatest acquisitions in the other thread, be they managerial or players, it might lead a few to reconsider what an amazing journey it's been with him at the helm.
UTT!
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duncfost01
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by duncfost01 on Mar 28, 2023 14:36:54 GMT 1
From what I’ve learnt today DH deserves an apology from me. I’ve slated both here and on social media. I was wrong.
He made one mistake. It’s cost him a lot of money.
The future will probably tell us all what that mistake was, or who that mistake was.
Thanks for being the custodian you said you were and thanks for some brilliant memories.
Enjoy your retirement.
UTT.
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Post by artysid on Mar 28, 2023 14:42:04 GMT 1
From what I’ve learnt today DH deserves an apology from me. I’ve slated both here and on social media. I was wrong. He made one mistake. It’s cost him a lot of money. The future will probably tell us all what that mistake was, or who that mistake was. Thanks for being the custodian you said you were and thanks for some brilliant memories. Enjoy your retirement. UTT. What have you learnt today? |
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deepc
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by deepc on Mar 28, 2023 18:39:11 GMT 1
From what I’ve learnt today DH deserves an apology from me. I’ve slated both here and on social media. I was wrong. He made one mistake. It’s cost him a lot of money. The future will probably tell us all what that mistake was, or who that mistake was. Thanks for being the custodian you said you were and thanks for some brilliant memories. Enjoy your retirement. UTT. No prizes for guessing what he thinks the mistake was |
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Niggled
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by Niggled on Mar 28, 2023 18:43:24 GMT 1
From what I’ve learnt today DH deserves an apology from me. I’ve slated both here and on social media. I was wrong. He made one mistake. It’s cost him a lot of money. The future will probably tell us all what that mistake was, or who that mistake was. Thanks for being the custodian you said you were and thanks for some brilliant memories. Enjoy your retirement. UTT. No prizes for guessing what he thinks the mistake was Employing Julian winter ? |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Mar 28, 2023 19:18:47 GMT 1
The stadium shares which he’s ok record as saying several times he would put in to a trust for the football club? (Including Q&As I attended) Like I say, we're all waiting to see the details of the deal, and we'll try not to jump to conclusions in the meanwhile. I really don't understand why the deal is factor, he had little if any choice |
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duncfost01
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by duncfost01 on Mar 28, 2023 19:24:08 GMT 1
From what I’ve learnt today DH deserves an apology from me. I’ve slated both here and on social media. I was wrong. He made one mistake. It’s cost him a lot of money. The future will probably tell us all what that mistake was, or who that mistake was. Thanks for being the custodian you said you were and thanks for some brilliant memories. Enjoy your retirement. UTT. What have you learnt today? Expect action - maybe. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 28, 2023 19:30:34 GMT 1
I'm reminded of the days of Ted Rogers and 321
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Maynardblue on Mar 28, 2023 20:40:11 GMT 1
Like I say, we're all waiting to see the details of the deal, and we'll try not to jump to conclusions in the meanwhile. I really don't understand why the deal is factor, he had little if any choice Oh yes he did. The original US group who's deal he spurned in favour of the Dutch...which then collapsed leading to the spurning of the US deal again in favour of this anonymous group. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Mar 28, 2023 21:02:31 GMT 1
By any chance does anyone know who the original US group were?
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Post by Sio on Mar 28, 2023 21:24:11 GMT 1
By any chance does anyone know who the original US group were? John Jay Moores, San Diego |
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Post by delroy on Apr 7, 2023 19:18:49 GMT 1
A Town "fan" was heard slagging off Dean Hoyle and saying how much money DH would make from the club.
He claimed that Hoyle personally owns all the players' contracts and will pocket all the proceeds from their transfers.
This is not permitted under FL rules and it is quite incredible that someone is using this as a stick to beat Hoyle.
It appears that the opposite is true and Hoyle will write off a substantial sum of money,probably more than all his predecessors put together!
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Post by Sio on Apr 7, 2023 19:59:40 GMT 1
Yeah cos this thread is needed
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Post by kennyk2 on Apr 7, 2023 20:00:39 GMT 1
You said it… Shepley!
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Post by 3Pipe on Apr 7, 2023 20:18:22 GMT 1
Stupid comment heard in Shepley so I must make a thread about it when I get home.
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Apr 7, 2023 20:37:37 GMT 1
Who brought Warnock in?
Who is paying for 10 coaches to Cardiff?
Credit where it's due
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Post by softboy on Apr 7, 2023 23:12:10 GMT 1
And the point of this thread is what?
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