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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 22:40:36 GMT 1
And this is why I don't want him back, because this is all we'd get from fans like you. Wagner would be untouchable and that isn't right. No manager should be untouchable or beyond criticism. The bloke left us nine points adrift at the bottom of the league in January and you're saying he did a good job that season. I'm baffled. Would he bollocks be untouchable  …and you’ll be relieved to know I wouldn’t be doing the hiring and firing! Im not sure why you’d be baffled if you look at the back drop to that season and the events. I’m saying nobody would have done any better. You've just said that everything is irrelevant, Wagner wasn't at all to blame for the relegation. The manager takes no responsibility whatsoever for us being bottom of the table? Seems like he's untouchable in your eyes to me. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Nov 12, 2023 23:19:58 GMT 1
The more clubs Wagner manages the more it makes me wonder if his success here was pretty much because he had Aaron Mooy. I don't think we'll ever fully appreciate just how far above Championship level he was. I do agree Arron Mooy was a huge piece of the jigsaw but to get a team to challenge for a championship top 2 on our budget was always going to require a top top player ( AM ) and this is often why any manager cannot be consistently successful at this level unless the finances are included . There are few exceptions bar the absolute legends of management like Warnock. Irrelevant of Wagner coming back here all town fans should have great memories of Wagner I feel sorry for those that don’t . ( note I’m not saying those wanting Wagner to not return haven’t still got great memories of Wagners tenure) . But sometimes you do get the feeling some town fans really do dislike him . I also think as another example of a manager needing that key player or 2 CC had a great great player in the team which got us to 3rd in LC , who will one day captain England a honour that I cannot remember any town player having in my life time. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 23:24:24 GMT 1
The more clubs Wagner manages the more it makes me wonder if his success here was pretty much because he had Aaron Mooy. I don't think we'll ever fully appreciate just how far above Championship level he was. I do agree Arron Mooy was a huge piece of the jigsaw but to get a team to challenge for a championship top 2 on our budget was always going to require a top top player ( AM ) and this is often why any manager cannot be consistently successful at this level unless the finances are included . There are few exceptions bar the absolute legends of management like Warnock. Irrelevant of Wagner coming back here all town fans should have great memories of Wagner I feel sorry for those that don’t . ( note I’m not saying those wanting Wagner to not return haven’t still got great memories of Wagners tenure) . But sometimes you do get the feeling some town fans really do dislike him . I also think as another example of a manager needing that key player or 2 CC had a great great player in the team which got us to 3rd in LC , who will one day captain England a honour that I cannot remember any town player having in my life time. Don't dislike him in the slightest, I just don't want him back. |
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Post by rockwall on Nov 13, 2023 9:13:13 GMT 1
How many games did it take NW to unite the fan base in his FIRST spell in charge? You seem to be comparing different scenarios. Getting to Wembley in March 1994 is probably what won the fans over in the end. But I'm not talking about his first spell? I think what Rothwell means is that for a majority (not me) having Watner back would have the same effect as when Warnock came back. In comparison 1sr spells, Wagner United fans and club quicker. 2nd spells- if Wagner ever did return it would probably be a similar reaction. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 13, 2023 9:18:43 GMT 1
The Wagner era was great. Once in a generation.
Moore has been here 2 minutes and isn’t going anywhere. And nor should he.
Hypothetically, let’s say Wagner came back. Can you imagine the stain on his legendary status if he had a torrid time, injuries, suspensions, relegation battle, and it all went tits up.
Let history stay as it is. Move on as we are and find the solution we need with adding to what we have, not removing what we have.
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Post by mosher on Nov 13, 2023 10:57:01 GMT 1
Part of me actually wants Wagner to come back, so we can get it out of the way and then move on. He's been rubbish at his last three clubs and yet you're all so sure that he'll come back here, stop being rubbish and start being brilliant again. He will never ever replicate what he did between November 2015 and May 2018, he's not the same manager that he was then, he lost it when he was at Town and has gone downhill ever since. I know I'm pissing in the wind here, as whatever I say is wrong to most on here, but just look at his record after our first Premier League season. It is woeful. If David Wagner had taken Preston North End into the Premier League in 2017 and then had the record he has had since, and we appointed him in 2023, the fans wouldn't be happy at all. It's all rose tinted specs and nostalgia. This I can't understand. People seem to check if it's you who's posted before deciding if they agree with the post or not. A few months ago I thought you were just being paranoid, but I've noticed that your posts get jumped on, while others who've said exactly the same are ignored. I don't know if it's the same posters following you around as I don't take much notice of the side bar except the avatars, but you do seem to attract more negativity than others saying the same things. Maybe it's because you get wound up quicker than the others and sad people like to see others getting wound up/pissed off? |
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Post by crux on Nov 13, 2023 11:03:47 GMT 1
There’s no guarantees with any manager. Could be worth a punt bringing Wagner back. Since we’re already heading to the third division the worst he could do would be to equal that. If nothing else, watching our current players attempt Wagner's gegenpressing style would be sadistically entertaining. We could start a book on how long before REG got cramp. My bet, around 3 minutes 🤣 |
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Post by ram on Nov 13, 2023 11:07:07 GMT 1
This whole argument is irrelevant.The Numpties in charge at Huddersfield Town won,t be sacking the genius that is Darren Moore.
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 13, 2023 11:09:02 GMT 1
Part of me actually wants Wagner to come back, so we can get it out of the way and then move on. He's been rubbish at his last three clubs and yet you're all so sure that he'll come back here, stop being rubbish and start being brilliant again. He will never ever replicate what he did between November 2015 and May 2018, he's not the same manager that he was then, he lost it when he was at Town and has gone downhill ever since. I know I'm pissing in the wind here, as whatever I say is wrong to most on here, but just look at his record after our first Premier League season. It is woeful. If David Wagner had taken Preston North End into the Premier League in 2017 and then had the record he has had since, and we appointed him in 2023, the fans wouldn't be happy at all. It's all rose tinted specs and nostalgia. This I can't understand. People seem to check if it's you who's posted before deciding if they agree with the post or not. A few months ago I thought you were just being paranoid, but I've noticed that your posts get jumped on, while others who've said exactly the same are ignored. I don't know if it's the same posters following you around as I don't take much notice of the side bar except the avatars, but you do seem to attract more negativity than others saying the same things. Maybe it's because you get wound up quicker than the others and sad people like to see others getting wound up/pissed off? Leave them to it, mate. If that's what makes them happy, then so be it. |
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Post by araucaria on Nov 13, 2023 11:16:08 GMT 1
Breaking news - Dave's back! Oh, not that Dave? Apologies.
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Post by irverino on Nov 13, 2023 11:22:15 GMT 1
Did Webber leave to save his mate Dave? Chris Sutton was asking Norwich fans to call in to 606 on Saturday to express weather both should go, the result at Cardiff was a timely reprieve but for how long? I think DW will be in charge when we visit Carrow Road on 23rd Dec with QPR & SW visiting prior to Town.....Calls for his return last year before Norwich stepped in, but would DW have matched Warnock's miracle rescue?
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Post by townarentbest on Nov 13, 2023 11:26:26 GMT 1
The Wagner era was great. Once in a generation. Moore has been here 2 minutes and isn’t going anywhere. And nor should he. Hypothetically, let’s say Wagner came back. Can you imagine the stain on his legendary status if he had a torrid time, injuries, suspensions, relegation battle, and it all went tits up. Let history stay as it is. Move on as we are and find the solution we need with adding to what we have, not removing what we have. Who cares about his "legendary status" potentially being stained. HE MIGHT DO WELL. I know for sure the noise in the ground would lift. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 13, 2023 11:37:14 GMT 1
Did Webber leave to save his mate Dave? Chris Sutton was asking Norwich fans to call in to 606 on Saturday to express weather both should go, the result at Cardiff was a timely reprieve but for how long? I think DW will be in charge when we visit Carrow Road on 23rd Dec with QPR & SW visiting prior to Town.....Calls for his return last year before Norwich stepped in, but would DW have matched Warnock's miracle rescue? Judging by what he's done at Norwich, no he wouldn't. |
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Post by jjamez on Nov 13, 2023 12:45:10 GMT 1
Did Webber leave to save his mate Dave? Chris Sutton was asking Norwich fans to call in to 606 on Saturday to express weather both should go, the result at Cardiff was a timely reprieve but for how long? I think DW will be in charge when we visit Carrow Road on 23rd Dec with QPR & SW visiting prior to Town.....Calls for his return last year before Norwich stepped in, but would DW have matched Warnock's miracle rescue? Judging by what he's done at Norwich, no he wouldn't. Likewise, looking at what wilder and Smith and the sort have done, they wouldn't either. Only one man would and he did. Warnock won't be back unless he's managing a team against us. Would I have Wagner back, I see both sides, it would create some sort of buzz, it did when he got rumoured last season, only for bromby to get the wrong end of the stick and appoint buzz himself. Back to Wagner, his last few jobs have seen him struggle, it wouldn't be any different here, I'd have been looking elsewhere before Moore and I'd be looking elsewhere after, we missed out on a good young coach in Liam Manning and I reckon he'll do well at Bristol given time. As for Moore if we give him time, I don't see how it gets better. His tactics are dour and even if we did invest heavily in Jan, looking at some of the signings he made at Wednesday, I wouldn't imagine they'd be exciting |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 13, 2023 12:52:57 GMT 1
The Wagner era was great. Once in a generation. Moore has been here 2 minutes and isn’t going anywhere. And nor should he. Hypothetically, let’s say Wagner came back. Can you imagine the stain on his legendary status if he had a torrid time, injuries, suspensions, relegation battle, and it all went tits up. Let history stay as it is. Move on as we are and find the solution we need with adding to what we have, not removing what we have. Who cares about his "legendary status" potentially being stained. HE MIGHT DO WELL. I know for sure the noise in the ground would lift. Great. He ‘might’ do well. Let’s spaff a load more money on everything but players and see how that pans out. |
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Post by townarentbest on Nov 13, 2023 16:19:04 GMT 1
Who cares about his "legendary status" potentially being stained. HE MIGHT DO WELL. I know for sure the noise in the ground would lift. Great. He ‘might’ do well. Let’s spaff a load more money on everything but players and see how that pans out. The question is "Do you think Wagner would do better RIGHT NOW with the squad we have, and result in momentum and points gained over the next nine games before the window opens, that would see us pull further away from the drop zone than we're likely to be with DM at the helm?" And if the answer is "probably yes", then why wouldn't we do everything we could to bring in someone like Wagner? |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 13, 2023 16:22:31 GMT 1
Great. He ‘might’ do well. Let’s spaff a load more money on everything but players and see how that pans out. The question is "Do you think Wagner would do better RIGHT NOW with the squad we have, and result in momentum and points gained over the next nine games before the window opens, that would see us pull further away from the drop zone than we're likely to be with DM at the helm?" And if the answer is "probably yes", then why wouldn't we do everything we could to bring in someone like Wagner? Judging by what he's doing with a far better squad at Norwich, the only answer is "Highly doubtful". |
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Post by townarentbest on Nov 13, 2023 16:29:20 GMT 1
The question is "Do you think Wagner would do better RIGHT NOW with the squad we have, and result in momentum and points gained over the next nine games before the window opens, that would see us pull further away from the drop zone than we're likely to be with DM at the helm?" And if the answer is "probably yes", then why wouldn't we do everything we could to bring in someone like Wagner? Judging by what he's doing with a far better squad at Norwich, the only answer is "Highly doubtful". So, if thats the answer you end up at, you keep DM, until you find someone where the answer is "probably". (although FWIW I personally don't think Wagners performance with Norwich is particularly indicative of what might happen were he to take over our squad) |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 13, 2023 16:30:21 GMT 1
Judging by what he's doing with a far better squad at Norwich, the only answer is "Highly doubtful". So, if thats the answer you end up at, you keep DM, until you find someone where the answer is "probably". (although FWIW I personally don't think Wagners performance with Norwich is particularly indicative of what might happen were he to take over our squad) Why is it always Wagner or nobody? Is Wagner the only available manager? |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 13, 2023 16:34:09 GMT 1
Great. He ‘might’ do well. Let’s spaff a load more money on everything but players and see how that pans out. The question is "Do you think Wagner would do better RIGHT NOW with the squad we have, and result in momentum and points gained over the next nine games before the window opens, that would see us pull further away from the drop zone than we're likely to be with DM at the helm?" And if the answer is "probably yes", then why wouldn't we do everything we could to bring in someone like Wagner? The question should be ‘do you think this is Monopoly money?’ I appreciate it is now a moot point but you talk as if it’s just a paper exercise, swapping managers around. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 13, 2023 17:15:22 GMT 1
Cant help thinking that if w'ed appointed someone else back in September who'd then got 7 points from these last 9 games causing a lot of calls for them to be sacked..,, one of the main names being bandied about to bring in as our next manager would be Darren Moore.
Think you've got to give the guy a chance to shape his own squad.
Its a risk of course it is, but so is appointing the next bloke,,,and the next bloke...and so on.
Sooner or later you have to stick with one for a while and give him the backing to do the job.
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Post by townarentbest on Nov 13, 2023 17:23:44 GMT 1
So, if thats the answer you end up at, you keep DM, until you find someone where the answer is "probably". (although FWIW I personally don't think Wagners performance with Norwich is particularly indicative of what might happen were he to take over our squad) Why is it always Wagner or nobody? Is Wagner the only available manager? It isn't, thats the OPPOSITE of what I wrote, so why are you suggesting that?! This is a thread with Wagner in the title, & he was being discussed as a possible replacement, some have said, "why would he be brought in" - I've put out a reason potentially why, and followed up with, "and if you think that doesn't stack up as justification for Wagner coming in...then keep on looking until someone else who will probably be better over the next 9 games can be identified". |
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Post by townarentbest on Nov 13, 2023 17:28:21 GMT 1
Cant help thinking that if w'ed appointed someone else back in September who'd then got 7 points from these last 9 games causing a lot of calls for them to be sacked..,, one of the main names being bandied about to bring in as our next manager would be Darren Moore. Think you've got to give the guy a chance to shape his own squad. Its a risk of course it is, but so is appointing the next bloke,,,and the next bloke...and so on. Sooner or later you have to stick with one for a while and give him the backing to do the job. Agree with this, but some people (players & managers) just simply don't suit a certain club and where its at, at a given time. DM (who I've rated as a football manager and who I respect a lot as a person) with every passing week looks increasingly like he fits that description, much as Siewert and Fotheringham did. Sometimes swift and decisive action is needed, and sometimes a bit of leeway feels right (like we gave Carlos during that incredibly disappointing first season). |
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Post by Made In Yorkshire on Nov 13, 2023 17:43:53 GMT 1
I keep seeing reference to what he's done since he left us.
I would remind folk to look at what he had done BEFORE he joined us.
Besides there is now a precendent for blokes called Dave coming back into the fold.
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Post by ritchie on Nov 13, 2023 17:49:22 GMT 1
Always been against it.. but I'd take buhler's wife managing us at the minute.
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Post by andyboothscat on Nov 13, 2023 17:53:05 GMT 1
I’ve probably said it elsewhere on this thread but it’s absolutely nailed on that DW will manage Town again.
It’s an easy option for both parties but only when absolutely all other options are off the table and both parties are in a far worse situation than they were on parting in 2019.
It’s like going back to an ex when you’re both pissed at 3am.
It’s a terrible idea and will end in tears but it’s absolutely nailed on to happen given the downward direction that both parties have spiralled over the last 5 years.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 13, 2023 17:55:55 GMT 1
Cant help thinking that if w'ed appointed someone else back in September who'd then got 7 points from these last 9 games causing a lot of calls for them to be sacked..,, one of the main names being bandied about to bring in as our next manager would be Darren Moore. Think you've got to give the guy a chance to shape his own squad. Its a risk of course it is, but so is appointing the next bloke,,,and the next bloke...and so on. Sooner or later you have to stick with one for a while and give him the backing to do the job. Agree with this, but some people (players & managers) just simply don't suit a certain club and where its at, at a given time. DM (who I've rated as a football manager and who I respect a lot as a person) with every passing week looks increasingly like he fits that description, much as Siewert and Fotheringham did. Sometimes swift and decisive action is needed, and sometimes a bit of leeway feels right (like we gave Carlos during that incredibly disappointing first season). Know what you mean. Not sure I think Moore isnt a fit here yet though. I think hes just struggling to find a team that can play how he wants them to play ( whatever that is...I genuinely dont know yet) Too many injuries and just not the sort of players he wants maybe?. So he's been shoehorning players into different roles in the hope it clicked..then when that wasnt working hes gone much more pragmatic and is basically just trying to eke out as many points as he can until the window opens and he can do something about it. Corborans a good example of how sticking with a manager can be a big benefit. His record ( points per game ) in that first season was almost exactly the same as Fotheringham got here last season. Both were contending with an injury crisis..Fotheringham more so if anything. Many wanted him out, myself included, but we didnt , we stuck with him,,brought in a whole raft of new players for him to build a side with and it almost paid off handsomely. Its always such a gamble but I think in Moores case, at least he has a track record you can pin some optimism on. Hes shown at all 3 previous clubs that he can put a winning team out on a regular basis. |
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Post by ritchie on Nov 13, 2023 18:54:10 GMT 1
Agree with this, but some people (players & managers) just simply don't suit a certain club and where its at, at a given time. DM (who I've rated as a football manager and who I respect a lot as a person) with every passing week looks increasingly like he fits that description, much as Siewert and Fotheringham did. Sometimes swift and decisive action is needed, and sometimes a bit of leeway feels right (like we gave Carlos during that incredibly disappointing first season). Know what you mean. Not sure I think Moore isnt a fit here yet though. I think hes just struggling to find a team that can play how he wants them to play ( whatever that is...I genuinely dont know yet) Too many injuries and just not the sort of players he wants maybe?. So he's been shoehorning players into different roles in the hope it clicked..then when that wasnt working hes gone much more pragmatic and is basically just trying to eke out as many points as he can until the window opens and he can do something about it. Corborans a good example of how sticking with a manager can be a big benefit. His record ( points per game ) in that first season was almost exactly the same as Fotheringham got here last season. Both were contending with an injury crisis..Fotheringham more so if anything. Many wanted him out, myself included, but we didnt , we stuck with him,,brought in a whole raft of new players for him to build a side with and it almost paid off handsomely. Its always such a gamble but I think in Moores case, at least he has a track record you can pin some optimism on. Hes shown at all 3 previous clubs that he can put a winning team out on a regular basis. Was pretty quickly obvious Coberan was a quality coach IMO. He had a big injury crisis but you could see it. Moore can see nothing, he will take us down I am completely convinced. Hoyle would have sacked him by now IMO. |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 13, 2023 18:59:42 GMT 1
Mooy was a Premier League class player &, even at the last World Cup, the lad was excellent. He would have been a far better player at Man City than Phillips, if Aaron had been given a chance. But what DW did was amazing, he brought a different level to the Championship's professionalism & he was a victim of his own success, in that he was copied. I do think it was the perfect storm but he built a squad in the right way (choosing leaders who had been captains at their clubs), built a squad at the right time (January is not the right time to build a winning squad) & got players playing at a level they hadn't played at either before that season, or after - e.g Kachunga & Tommy Smith. Whether he could do it again at Town,& personally I don't think so, is hugely debatable & I'm not even sure I'd want him to try... his promotion winning team would have beaten this team 2-0, without our current squad having a kick. Mooy would just stroll around the pitch, finding pockets of space, with the ball being like a magnet to him, dictating the whole game. However, if you picked a joint team from the 2 squads, the only players that would get anywhere near a starting spot would be Nicholls & Helik. Obviously, the 2016/17 version of Hoggy is more preferable than the 23/24 version. David would have to completely start again. I was just about to write a similar piece, even using the "perfect storm" phrase. Yes, Mooy was a massive part of our success but there were many factors and Wagner was instrumental in bringing this together. Without making excuses, I can see why he wasn't a success at Schalke and struggling at Norwich but would argue Young Boys wasn't a failure. Yes I'd have him back after watching the non football shitshow I sat through yesterday. Young Boys wasn't a failure ? The team went from one that had won the league 4 years running to finishing 15 points back in 2nd 🤔 |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 13, 2023 19:04:08 GMT 1
No. He didn't want a relegation on his CV. Because let's stop pretending otherwise, we were going down under him anyway. What is it with Town fans and rewriting history? We won two games between August and January under him, TWO GAMES! I never said we weren't going down anyway. My point is he can't be blamed for that in any way shape or form. He was manager for half of the season, how is he blameless ? |
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…and you’ll be relieved to know I wouldn’t be doing the hiring and firing! 
